My Goodness.......

[HawkamongstGophers]

I am convinced that 90% of the posters on this board know absolutely nothing about basketball.

Instead of grumbling about how this team has no heart and they choked and the coach should move on, etc, take a deep breath and look at this team with intelligent perspective and BB IQ!

This is a team that was picked to finish from 8-10 in the B1G preseason. They were not on anyone's top 25 radar and IIRC didn't even get top 25 pre-season votes.

That than griping about how badly they "embarrassed" YOU (LOL) applaud them for their overachievement. YES, OVERACHIEVEMENT!

Four 4 years I (and a few others, phantomflyer for sure) have been saying this teams guards were "average at best" (hint: that is a nice way of saying BELOW AVERAGE), yet people are all bent out of shape because they played below average on a big stage or in tight games. They were what they are! Clemmons does not start on more than 1/2 the teams in the country and Gessell likely does not start on any other "top 25" team.

Despite everyone's lamentations: Jok and Uthoff are above average and maybe even well above average. And Woody, IMO is a well above average passer and defender, below average offensive player.

These are the exact same observations I have stated for 4 yrs! (3 in Jok's case). They were what they are!

The bottom line is this was and has long been, a two player team. They did not choke. They performed in line with their talent level. Given expectations coming into the year, they WAY over performed in Dec and Jan, underperformed in Feb and March. In reality, they essentially over performed or met preseason expectations.

This was arguably one of the bottom 50 programs in the country, under Lick, and is now well within the discussion of being one of the top 50, having gone to multiple post-seasons tourneys in a row.

Yes, it would have been nice had we been able to recruit a better guard along the way. Yes, that could be argued as the staff's biggest shortcoming to date. But the talent has been improving consistently and moving from a top 50 program to a top 10-15 program is a LOT HARDER that going from bottom 50 to top 50.

Wishing for the coaches departure at this stage is just ignorance. Blasting these kids is arrogance, and being upset by this seasons results is just being short-sighted and selfish.

I am a diehard hawk fan, but like to believe a realistic one. This team, at the end of the day outperformed itself by getting to #3 at one point. It them came down to earth and overall had essentially and perhaps a better season than we would have expected in October.

 

[SDHN2013]

Beat it with that nonsense. Noone should to be happy with this team after that piss poor performance today and over the last month.

 

[HawkamongstGophers]

What is "nonsense?"

After Dec-Jan it is easy to be disappointed in the ending, but in reality their overall results were equal to or better than what was expected of them preseason.

The guard flaws were exposed as would have been expected. The front court carried the team.

However, college BB always has been and likely always will be Guard driven.

In general teams with above average backcourts and average or below front courts will out perform below average backcourts and above average front courts. This year (and the last several years as well) Iowa was the later.

As such their overall results speak well for Fran as a coach. His recruiting continues to improve. Not only will Iowa be fine with him as coach, the next four years will provide even better results.

I like what I saw in Williams of late and if services are to be trusted the incoming talent over the next 2-3 years way outshines what we have seen so far.

From a big picture perspective, Iowa is in the best place, basketball wise, it has been in in 20 or more years.

 

[*hawksrock*]

I am convinced that 90% of the posters on this board know absolutely nothing about basketball.

Instead of grumbling about how this team has no heart and they choked and the coach should move on, etc, take a deep breath and look at this team with intelligent perspective and BB IQ!

This is a team that was picked to finish from 8-10 in the B1G preseason. They were not on anyone's top 25 radar and IIRC didn't even get top 25 pre-season votes.

That than griping about how badly they "embarrassed" YOU (LOL) applaud them for their overachievement. YES, OVERACHIEVEMENT!

Four 4 years I (and a few others, phantomflyer for sure) have been saying this teams guards were "average at best" (hint: that is a nice way of saying BELOW AVERAGE), yet people are all bent out of shape because they played below average on a big stage or in tight games. They were what they are! Clemmons does not start on more than 1/2 the teams in the country and Gessell likely does not start on any other "top 25" team.

Despite everyone's lamentations: Jok and Uthoff are above average and maybe even well above average. And Woody, IMO is a well above average passer and defender, below average offensive player.

These are the exact same observations I have stated for 4 yrs! (3 in Jok's case). They were what they are!

The bottom line is this was and has long been, a two player team. They did not choke. They performed in line with their talent level. Given expectations coming into the year, they WAY over performed in Dec and Jan, underperformed in Feb and March. In reality, they essentially over performed or met preseason expectations.

This was arguably one of the bottom 50 programs in the country, under Lick, and is now well within the discussion of being one of the top 50, having gone to multiple post-seasons tourneys in a row.

Yes, it would have been nice had we been able to recruit a better guard along the way. Yes, that could be argued as the staff's biggest shortcoming to date. But the talent has been improving consistently and moving from a top 50 program to a top 10-15 program is a LOT HARDER that going from bottom 50 to top 50.

Wishing for the coaches departure at this stage is just ignorance. Blasting these kids is arrogance, and being upset by this seasons results is just being short-sighted and selfish.

I am a diehard hawk fan, but like to believe a realistic one. This team, at the end of the day outperformed itself by getting to #3 at one point. It them came down to earth and overall had essentially and perhaps a better season than we would have expected in October.

So..... there is some sanity here after all! Thanks for the good post, I believe you are exactly right.

 

[laidbackdude2011]

Reading this was a waste of 55 seconds of my life

 

[Doc Hawk]

Wow, you are self appreciating. ..lol. Yeah...I'm sure the OTHER 90 % are ignorant. Wake up....writing is on the wall. Even network commentators saw it...

 

[laidbackdude2011]

So we should be proud to be losing my 34 in a game. At least we overachieved? Even an average Iowa team should not be losing by 34 in a game.

 

[moondog24]

Other teams have quality coaches and players. With film study and practice, Iowa's flaws were exposed. Realistically, Iowa State and UNI might have more talent -- especially at the guard positions. Iowa shot the 3 ball pretty well for much of the season but has fallen off during their slump and if you don't shoot it well from the perimeter, it is much easier to defend an offense.​

 

[Oldgold51]

There was plenty of coaching "nonsense" in the first half.

A zone defense against Villanova? This defense worked as well as the Maginot Line. Who did the scouting report, Stevie Wonder?

Keeping your best perimeter defender sitting on the bench for 17 minutes to save him for the second half mop-up?

Not calling a TO during a 15 minute run? I have not seen a run like that since Dirty John's put PBR 12-packs on sale for $2.00 in May of '70.

And, a hell of a lot more.

I am not call for a firing, but today's Custer like coaching, the failure to make any adjustments over the past 6 weeks and not successfully recruiting a point guard in 4 years should lead to a 'Come to Jesus Meeting' tomorrow morning in Barta's office. Won't happen.

Most of all, I am not blaming the players. As the poster says, they are who they are. This is on Fran!

 

[HawkamongstGophers]

Wow, you are self appreciating. ..lol. Yeah...I'm sure the OTHER 90 % are ignorant. Wake up....writing is on the wall. Even network commentators saw it...

The 90% comment has to do with all the incessant B&M ing about Iowa's Staff and players. If someone can't see the program vs a few games, (forest for the trees) then yes, they are ignorant.

The last part of the season was a bummer, but again, given preseason expectations and overall talent, especially guards, this team met and arguably exceeded expectation.

If you don't understand the correlation between guard play and late game, late season' collapses, then you don't understand BB.

This is an anecdote but correlates. A few years ago a local HS team had two stud players, 2/3 and a 3/4, (sound familiar?) They finished 1 and 2 in career scoring and both played college ball. Great pair! They were around 15-1 and highly ranked in the state when I went to see them the first time at a friend's behest.

They were up all game against a lesser opponent who had a couple decent guards though. Not great, but decent.

With about 4 mins to go and down double digits the opposing team started pressing for the next three minutes the team with the super duo didn't get the ball across half court and actually fell behind for a possession.

They ultimately won on a near last second shot from one of the studs.

They guy who brought me was convinced that last game survival was proof of their heart and how clutch those two were, but wondered what I thought? My response was that they had below average overall point guard play and guard ball handling and would struggle come tournament time. To which he responded with somewhat indignation. That team lost by almost 20 in the second playoff game.

You see it doesn't matter how good your front court is if you can't get them the ball.

People here talk about Uthoff, Jok,' and to a degree Woodbury failing down the stretch. The fact of the matter is the guards were exposed as the season progressed and couldn't maintain control of the pace and game to let those guys shine. Four years ago some of us said this team could not make a deep run with Gessell and Clemmons as the guards. Four years later there are still those like you who think otherwise or that it is the front court or The staff's poor coaching.

Fran knows it too he just couldn't get the guards to come. However, it looks like the future may be better.

 

[Doc Hawk]

Well thank you for the enlightenment. ...us other ignorant fans could not see the poor guard play without you,and your few highly intelligent forum professors, we also were lucky enough to catch on to the rest of the team unable to make a layup, play defense after the other team burned them continuously with perimeter shots, the 6'9" fragile kid who shuts down after a bump or mean look, the 7'1" guy who refused to dunk a sure thing to miss a bank in over and over....a coach who can't call a time out when his players are beyond winded and a bench minus one...who are so bored when put in ,can't remember why they are on floor, this team has always had zero heart...it not just the guard play! Total team effort here....coaching was not worthy of city college.

 

[EddieHaskell]

I am convinced that 90% of the posters on this board know absolutely nothing about basketball.

Instead of grumbling about how this team has no heart and they choked and the coach should move on, etc, take a deep breath and look at this team with intelligent perspective and BB IQ!

This is a team that was picked to finish from 8-10 in the B1G preseason. They were not on anyone's top 25 radar and IIRC didn't even get top 25 pre-season votes.

That than griping about how badly they "embarrassed" YOU (LOL) applaud them for their overachievement. YES, OVERACHIEVEMENT!

Four 4 years I (and a few others, phantomflyer for sure) have been saying this teams guards were "average at best" (hint: that is a nice way of saying BELOW AVERAGE), yet people are all bent out of shape because they played below average on a big stage or in tight games. They were what they are! Clemmons does not start on more than 1/2 the teams in the country and Gessell likely does not start on any other "top 25" team.

Despite everyone's lamentations: Jok and Uthoff are above average and maybe even well above average. And Woody, IMO is a well above average passer and defender, below average offensive player.

These are the exact same observations I have stated for 4 yrs! (3 in Jok's case). They were what they are!

The bottom line is this was and has long been, a two player team. They did not choke. They performed in line with their talent level. Given expectations coming into the year, they WAY over performed in Dec and Jan, underperformed in Feb and March. In reality, they essentially over performed or met preseason expectations.

This was arguably one of the bottom 50 programs in the country, under Lick, and is now well within the discussion of being one of the top 50, having gone to multiple post-seasons tourneys in a row.

Yes, it would have been nice had we been able to recruit a better guard along the way. Yes, that could be argued as the staff's biggest shortcoming to date. But the talent has been improving consistently and moving from a top 50 program to a top 10-15 program is a LOT HARDER that going from bottom 50 to top 50.

Wishing for the coaches departure at this stage is just ignorance. Blasting these kids is arrogance, and being upset by this seasons results is just being short-sighted and selfish.

I am a diehard hawk fan, but like to believe a realistic one. This team, at the end of the day outperformed itself by getting to #3 at one point. It them came down to earth and overall had essentially and perhaps a better season than we would have expected in October.

Lick? He hasn't been here in a long time. Join the rest of us in the present.

 

[HawkamongstGophers]

Well thank you for the enlightenment. ...us other ignorant fans could not see the poor guard play without you,and your few highly intelligent forum professors, we also were lucky enough to catch on to the rest of the team unable to make a layup, play defense after the other team burned them continuously with perimeter shots, the 6'9" fragile kid who shuts down after a bump or mean look, the 7'1" guy who refused to dunk a sure thing to miss a bank in over and over....a coach who can't call a time out when his players are beyond winded and a bench minus one...who are so bored when put in ,can't remember why they are on floor, this team has always had zero heart...it not just the guard play! Total team effort here....coaching was not worthy of city college.

Really, go back and read posts from the last 4 yrs, minus last few weeks, about how good Gessell was and how anyone who thought he wasn't ABOVE average, just didn't get it.

As far as the rest, you specifically are one of the people I see today griping on and on. You have twice as Many posts today as the last 13 + years combined. So I doubt you are up to speed on the history of this discussion.

 

[Doc Hawk]

I'm sure that's it, you have a handle on it all...if we could just have followed your wisdom for the past four years, since you checked on my post count over the years you may see I've let geniuses such as yourself carry the load of educating the ignorant masses. Get off the guard spiel, just a small piece of the problem. Get over yourself Mr .Rupp....

 

[HawkamongstGophers]

I'm sure that's it, you have a handle on it all...if we could just have followed your wisdom for the past four years, since you checked on my post count over the years you may see I've let geniuses such as yourself carry the load of educating the ignorant masses. Get off the guard spiel, just a small piece of the problem. Get over yourself Mr .Rupp....

Go back to saying nothing, as it is, you are removing all doubt.


Haven't seen a constructive post from you yet. Just bashing.

Oh, and for what it's worth, the degree of difficulty in "researching" your post count is turning your head slightly left.

 

[SDHawkDoc]

Enough with the reminders of the lick years.
The statute of limitations has expired on that.

I disagree with wanting to move on from Fran. That would be a mistake.

What is fair game, though, is pointing out the repeated deficiencies, errors, flaws. Personnel, game management, repeating the same mistakes so frequently that we can call them in game in real time are all legitimate issues.

They were OK this year. A great January being offset by another late season collapse. Hardly a bad outcome.

I think a reasonable question is, "Is this the peak?"

They can be worse. Next year will likely be a non NCAA tourney season.
But can they be better? Is a first round tourney win followed by a second round thrashing as much as we can expect?

 

[Doc Hawk]

Go back to saying nothing, as it is, you are removing all doubt.


Haven't seen a constructive post from you yet. Just bashing.

Oh, and for what it's worth, the degree of difficulty in "researching" your post count is turning your head slightly left.

Haven't heard a realistic one from you yet...all about yourself and the guards. don't need to research you much...myself and alot of the others figured you out , with your words of your wisdom...I can go back to silence til we get a team...unfortunately people such as youself NEVER shut up...lmao....go write an inspirational book about yourself and the impact of guard play...I hear that is all you need to cut down the nets...

 

[HawkamongstGophers]

Enough with the reminders of the lick years.
The statute of limitations has expired on that.

I disagree with wanting to move on from Fran. That would be a mistake.

What is fair game, though, is pointing out the repeated deficiencies, errors, flaws. Personnel, game management, repeating the same mistakes so frequently that we can call them in game in real time are all legitimate issues.

They were OK this year. A great January being offset by another late season collapse. Hardly a bad outcome.

I think a reasonable question is, "Is this the peak?"

They can be worse. Next year will likely be a non NCAA tourney season.
But can they be better? Is a first round tourney win followed by a second round thrashing as much as we can expect?

Personally, I don't think this is the top. I think it is more the baseline. Regular top half B1G finishes NCAA's and now on, will expect a few sweet 16's and at least one elite 8 in next 4-5 years.

I know that is a long leash for many here but IMO Fran gets Connor' college career. If still 1st or second round exits then he will have more than had his chance. As of now I think the arc is still rising.

 

[HawkamongstGophers]

Haven't heard a realistic one from you yet...all about yourself and the guards. don't need to research you much...myself and alot of the others figured you out , with your words of your wisdom...I can go back to silence til we get a team...unfortunately people such as youself NEVER shut up...lmao....go write an inspirational book about yourself and the impact of guard play...I hear that is all you need to cut down the nets...

Bye

 

[rclui57]

Thanks to the OP for his commentary, but you can't offer intelligent views on this board. Too many simply must believe the other teams can easily be beat by our guys. And if not we start by wanting the coach dismissed. Basketball, football, it does not matter.
The expectations of some make one wonder that they must be CEOs or the top one in whatever they do. And if they were in such roles one wonders where they find the time to pontificate here.

 

[NorthCentralHawk]

Use the ignore feature here - it changes the experience immensely. I prefer seeing content from both a positive and a negative POV, so I have a long list of ignored users on this forum. I hope they've returned the favor for me as I'm sure any non-juvenile things I hope I've contributed would irk them beyond belief.

 

[Pepperman]

Making good points is appreciated.

Patting your back for recognizing these points is ok once in a while.

Patting your back multiple times in one thread is excessive.

All my opinions of course.

 

[Doc Hawk]

Amen to that

 

[RocknRollface]

Theres no way that defensive effort was indicative of talent level.

Thats not a talent thing.

I didn't buy the "theres something wrong" stuff all year but that looked like a team that wasn't all that motivated to play anymore.

 

[HawkamongstGophers]

Theres no way that defensive effort was indicative of talent level.

Thats not a talent thing.

I didn't buy the "theres something wrong" stuff all year but that looked like a team that wasn't all that motivated to play anymore.

I really think this team got "tired" and combined with having played over their head and others exploiting their deficiencies better, they came back to their mean.

 

[HawkamongstGophers]

Making good points is appreciated.

Patting your back for recognizing these points is ok once in a while.

Patting your back multiple times in one thread is excessive.

All my opinions of course.

Patting myself on the back was not my intent, rather to highlight that this team actually over achieved vs what they were. That being a team with marginal guard play, who surpassed pre-season expectations, did have improvement from the players with the ability to improve, and that while the last 10-12 games were disappointing, the overall season was successful and lastly, that the program trajectory is still up.

 

[Pepperman]

Patting myself on the back was not my intent, rather to highlight that this team actually over achieved vs what they were. That being a team with marginal guard play, who surpassed pre-season expectations, did have improvement from the players with the ability to improve, and that while the last 10-12 games were disappointing, the overall season was successful and lastly, that the program trajectory is still up.

Yes, that is fair in my opinion. If somebody asked me at the start of the year what I wanted, I'd have said an NCAA tourney win. By end January I thought we had more but it turned out to be fool's gold. Heck, we beat MSU twice and same for Purdue and now it appears neither was that great after all...

 

[HawkamongstGophers]

Yes, that is fair in my opinion. If somebody asked me at the start of the year what I wanted, I'd have said an NCAA tourney win. By end January I thought we had more but it turned out to be fool's gold. Heck, we beat MSU twice and same for Purdue and now it appears neither was that great after all...

Not to beat a dead horse, but Purdue also had guard issues IMO, and so did MSU when we played them.

In MSU's case I thought with Valentine back that would be resolved.

Yes, I know we played them with Valentine, but it was his first game back, so that played a role, again, IMO.

 

[RocknRollface]

I really think this team got "tired" and combined with having played over their head and others exploiting their deficiencies better, they came back to their mean.

They looked like they were ready to be done, for whatever reason.

They should have lost to Temple, but Temple was bad enough to not let it happen.

 

[Doc Hawk]

Yawwwwwnn