National Duals

[Vallholl]

Sorry if this has been discussed before, but where / what is going on with the National Duals? Seems like the format has changed, again. Thanks for any insights.



http://www.nwcaonline.com/nwcawebsite/Events/national-duals_di_duals_series

DATE: Sunday, February 21, 2016 (Finals may be moved to Monday, February 22 to accommodate TV)

LOCATION: (8) Big Ten Schools (To be determined by Sunday, February 14, 2016)

FORMAT: On February 14, 2016, the top 8 BigTen teams will be selected to participate based on their NWCA Coaches Poll Rankings. The dual meet champion from the 7 “non bigTen” conferences will also receive an automatic bid to participate. One “non BigTen” wild card team will be chosen based on its coaches poll ranking to round out the field of 16 teams.

TICKETS: Will be sold by each individual Big Ten School

 

[Vallholl]

So based on USA rankings, the following teams would qualify.
http://www.nwcaonline.com/NWCAWebSite/news/2016/01/05/coachespoll_Jan52016

Big Ten (8)
Rank Team (First) Record Points Conference
1 Penn State (12) 6-0 300 Big Ten
2 Iowa 8-0 288 Big Ten
6 Ohio State 5-1 236 Big Ten
8 Rutgers 10-2 203 Big Ten
9 Nebraska 6-1 201 Big Ten
11 Illinois 8-1 183 Big Ten
13 Michigan 4-1 157 Big Ten
19 Purdue 5-1 76 Big Ten

Big Ten teams "on the bubble"
22 Indiana 4-0 45 Big Ten
23 Minnesota 4-5 28 Big Ten

“non bigTen” conference schools (7)*
3 N.C. State 11-0 271 ACC
4 Missouri 5-0 262 MAC (Kept forgetting that Mizzu isn't B12)
7 Oklahoma State 4-2 234 Big 12
10 Lehigh 7-1 190 EIWA

These are total guesses...
Pac-12- Oregon St.
WWC- South Dakota St
SoCon-Appalachian State or EWL- Cleveland St.


Fighting for one wildcard spot.
5 Virginia Tech 4-1 255 ACC
12 Oklahoma 5-2 173 Big 12
14 Cornell 1-2 148 EIWA
15 North Carolina 6-1 130 ACC
16 Central Michigan 4-0 112 MAC

*What are the 7 Non-B1G conferences, Vall?
With some Wiki help...ACC, MAC, Pac-12, EIWA, WWC, BIG 12 and lastly SoCon or EWL (?)

 

[Vallholl]

Last post of the AM
Interesting to see who is left out: Minney, Cornell, OK


Potential bracket:

1) PSU vs App. St
8) Rutgers vs Nebby

4) Mizzu vs Purdue
5) Va Tech vs Mich

2) Iowa vs SDSU
7)OKieSt vs Lehigh

3) NCST vs OrSt
6) tOSU vs Illi

Iowa would have SDSU, then the Pokes, then NCST/tOSU, then PSU. Wow.

 

[Onceafish]

Last post of the AM
Interesting to see who is left out: Minney, Cornell, OK


Potential bracket:

1) PSU vs App. St
8) Rutgers vs Nebby

4) Mizzu vs Purdue
5) Va Tech vs Mich

2) Iowa vs SDSU
7)OKieSt vs Lehigh

3) NCST vs OrSt
6) tOSU vs Illi

Iowa would have SDSU, then the Pokes, then NCST/tOSU, then PSU. Wow.

There won't be brackets. It's like the old Big East/ACC challenge in basketball.

Only one dual meet for everybody. Highest ranked B1G team will wrestle against the highest ranked non-B1G team and on down the line thru the eighth B1G team vs. the 8th non-B1G team.

It's not a dual championship in any sense of the word.

Edit: That was my understanding of the format, but there is nothing on the NWCA website to explain it. Why are they using the word "finals"? If that's what they're calling the matchup between the top B1G and the non-top B1G, they're delusional.

 

[Azchief32]

So there is a solid chance that Minne won't be in the duals? What about their TShirt business?

 

[SPOONER]

Last post of the AM
Interesting to see who is left out: Minney, Cornell, OK


Potential bracket:

1) PSU vs App. St
8) Rutgers vs Nebby

4) Mizzu vs Purdue
5) Va Tech vs Mich

2) Iowa vs SDSU
7)OKieSt vs Lehigh

3) NCST vs OrSt
6) tOSU vs Illi

Iowa would have SDSU, then the Pokes, then NCST/tOSU, then PSU. Wow.

I don't see how there can be a "bracket" with 16 teams wrestling at 8 sites.

 

[DonHawkeye]

This wouldn't be a terrible idea if there was a East/West + championship dual in the Big Ten. In fact I think it would accomplish what many want, to increase the importance of in-season duals.

It makes the tOSU vs PSU dual pretty big for us. We have to pull for tOSU to pull off the upset.

 

[JohnBasedow]

If there is no bracket then the whole thing is garbage. How are you going to crown a champion if Iowa, PSU, NC St or Mizzou are all undefeated and it isn't settled on the mat?

 

[DonHawkeye]

If there is no bracket then the whole thing is garbage. How are you going to crown a champion if Iowa, PSU, NC St or Mizzou are all undefeated and it isn't settled on the mat?

It probably means more this way than when you had half the top teams not competing. Kinda like the old football days. Except I think it makes more sense to do it in wrestling this way when we actually have a real tournament looming down the road for these guys.

Some years there will be a clear cut champ and some years there will not be. So what no one remembers who the dual team champs are anyways.

I hate having a super hard dual tournament right before Big Tens.

We battle all the way to the finals and basically hobble Brooks in the process. PSU, OSU sit out and tOSU take a dump first round and they all overperform at nationals, while Iowa and Mizzu limp in.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

So there is a solid chance that Minne won't be in the duals? What about their TShirt business?

Concentrating on the Real Estate Franchise.

 

[Vallholl]

I don't see how there can be a "bracket" with 16 teams wrestling at 8 sites.

Well, Mr. Smarty-Man if they had a transporter from Star Trek they could do it.

Actually, none of this made sense to me un DonH showed up and explained it, b/c I was using the old paradigm of the National Duals where they are in a bracket and wrestle until they lose or are the Champion.

So as I understand it now, Eight B1G teams will host another school in a single dual and collectively it will all be called "the national duals" or as I will now call it, "The National Friendship Duals"

 

[gablefan73]

It probably means more this way than when you had half the top teams not competing. Kinda like the old football days. Except I think it makes more sense to do it in wrestling this way when we actually have a real tournament looming down the road for these guys.

Some years there will be a clear cut champ and some years there will not be. So what no one remembers who the dual team champs are anyways.

I hate having a super hard dual tournament right before Big Tens.

We battle all the way to the finals and basically hobble Brooks in the process. PSU, OSU sit out and tOSU take a dump first round and they all overperform at nationals, while Iowa and Mizzu limp in.

Make it early in the year or get rid of it.

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

If there is no bracket then the whole thing is garbage. How are you going to crown a champion if Iowa, PSU, NC St or Mizzou are all undefeated and it isn't settled on the mat?

Pretty much spot on. As someone else noted, this year's format isn't a dual meet championship in any way shape or form. However, it will create a handful of interesting dual meets that otherwise would not occur. That's how I choose to look at it, anyway.

 

[Vallholl]

Concentrating on the Real Estate Franchise.

Hey now, none of that "real estate talk" you know how that upsets our friends from little Canada.

 

[bphawkeye_Rivals]

I still contend that there must be a National Champ Dual Team decided after the current NCAAs. Take the top 8 (or 4) point teams and create a bracket - and do it 2 weeks after. This can be done in 2 days. The winner is the NC Dual Champ! - with a real NCAA trophy and everything!!!

 

[JohnBasedow]

I still contend that there must be a National Champ Dual Team decided after the current NCAAs. Take the top 8 (or 4) point teams and create a bracket - and do it 2 weeks after. This can be done in 2 days. The winner is the NC Dual Champ! - with a real NCAA trophy and everything!!!

Doesn't really work out some years. Take this year for example, Olympic Trials are in early April and some of the top guys will be qualified.

 

[LaxHawk174]

As long as conference tournaments and the NCAAs remain the sole 'important' events on the schedule, then I favor the structure of National Duals that will be implemented this season. Think of it as a quality non-conference dual that can potentially get some matchups you wouldn't otherwise see until NCAA's, the tournament/bracket format of the past seemed like an unnecessary risk, especially when certain top teams would choose not to compete. I'm sure none were too pleased that Brooks was injured at this event last season and we all saw what happened, he couldn't go against Mizzou, we lose the dual, wasn't 100% at big 10s, took a loss that hurt his seed, and then had to go through 1 and 3 seeds at NCAAs just to place while not 100%.

TL;DR : I like how it is now, 1 non conference dual against an opponent of similar 'relative' quality. Less risk, and more participation by the top teams, especially when in the current system duals don't mean a whole lot.

 

[bphawkeye_Rivals]

Doesn't really work out some years. Take this year for example, Olympic Trials are in early April and some of the top guys will be qualified.

I'm sure scheduling will work itself out. But w/o the NDs this season - the B1Gs and all the other confs could push up by about 2 weeks. the NCs by 2 more weeks - and then the NEW REAL NCAA Champ duals 2 more weeks. That would put everything on schedule.

 

[Gusaford]

Now that I understand what the "National Duals" are this year, it's a pretty big misnomer and a very big departure from years past. In a year where the Hawks don't wrestle tOSU or PSU, it will be welcome to see them wrestle NC State or Mizzou. But it's small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. My expectations were very different.

 

[Vallholl]

Now that I understand what the "National Duals" are this year, it's a pretty big misnomer and a very big departure from years past. In a year where the Hawks don't wrestle tOSU or PSU, it will be welcome to see them wrestle NC State or Mizzou. But it's small potatoes in the grand scheme of things. My expectations were very different.

"Your expectations were very different" ?!? imagine wasting 30 min of your morning coffee time using the google to find the National Duals website, rankings, and if the SoCon or EWL is the 7th non-B1G conference and then designing brackets only to find out that they changed the rules.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

Both the SoCon and the EWL are the 7th non-B1G conference. The Western Wrestling Conference no longer exists, as it has been merged into the Big 12.

 

[vanhawkman]

Well, Mr. Smarty-Man if they had a transporter from Star Trek they could do it.

Actually, none of this made sense to me un DonH showed up and explained it, b/c I was using the old paradigm of the National Duals where they are in a bracket and wrestle until they lose or are the Champion.

So as I understand it now, Eight B1G teams will host another school in a single dual and collectively it will all be called "the national duals" or as I will now call it, "The National Friendship Duals"

Hold on there, Vallholl. I think you're only allowed one "Mr. Smarty-Man" comment a month on this forum. Let's try to keep it clean.

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

I still contend that there must be a National Champ Dual Team decided after the current NCAAs.

Interesting idea, but "must be"? That's a bit much. A National Dual champion is a nice idea, but will likely always be regarded like the NIT tourney in college basketball; i.e., relatively small potatoes compared to the real prize.

 

[Vallholl]

Both the SoCon and the EWL are the 7th non-B1G conference. The Western Wrestling Conference no longer exists, as it has been merged into the Big 12.

What are the 7 Non-B1G conferences, SHPl?
1 ACC
2 MAC
3 Pac-12
4 EIWA
5 WWC / BIG 12
6 SoCon / EWL
7 ???

 

[SetonHallPirate]

1 ACC
2 MAC
3 Pac-12
4 EIWA
5 Big 12
6 SoCon
7 EWL

 

[gablefan73]

Am I understanding it correctly that we would wrestle Missouri if nothing changes?

 

[SetonHallPirate]

Yes, but something will change. The five unbeaten (against non-B1G schools) teams are presently Lehigh, Missouri, North Carolina, North Carolina State, and Virginia. Obviously the last three all wrestle each other, and Missouri still wrestles NC State. Not to mention other potential landmines (Lehigh still has Cornell, Missouri has Oklahoma State, etc.)...and, oh, yeah, some of those schools still have B1G opponents (NC State wrestles at Nebraska, Lehigh wrestles Penn State, just to name a couple).

Figure you guys will get the number two spot if you go unbeaten, unless Penn State stumbles somewhere along the way.

 

[minnhawkeye]

Just my thoughts on National duals lets not go Penn State and Okl State have skipped it . Everyone knows the big prize is the NCAA tourney. Why mess with this dual thing and have a potenial champ get hurt?

 

[meatloaf55]

Pretty much spot on. As someone else noted, this year's format isn't a dual meet championship in any way shape or form. However, it will create a handful of interesting dual meets that otherwise would not occur. That's how I choose to look at it, anyway.

this is exactly how I feel. It is dumb they name another "champ" after it but I think it is good because we will get some more great meets between good teams.

 

[MSU158]

Most recent NWCA Rankings 1/12/2016
Rank Team (First) Record Points Conference Previous
1 Penn State (12) 8-0 300 Big Ten 1
2 Iowa 10-0 288 Big Ten 2
3 N.C. State 16-0 274 ACC 3
4 Missouri 7-0 264 MAC 4
5 Oklahoma State 4-2 250 Big 12 7
6 Rutgers 11-2 225 Big Ten 8
7 Nebraska 8-1 205 Big Ten 9
8 Lehigh 9-1 201 EIWA 10
9 Oklahoma 6-2 194 Big 12 12
10 Michigan 6-1 199 Big Ten 13
11 Ohio State 5-2 185 Big Ten 6
12 Virginia Tech 7-2 176 ACC 5
13 Illinois 9-2 167 Big Ten 11
14 Iowa State 7-2 161 Big 12 18
15 North Carolina 9-1 130 ACC 15
16 Cornell 1-3 113 EIWA 14
17 Virginia 5-2 100 ACC 17
18 Pittsburgh 9-1 91 ACC 20
19 Central Michigan 5-1 84 MAC 16
20 Purdue 5-2 73 Big Ten 19
21 Ohio 5-2 59 MAC 21
22 Indiana 4-1 47 Big Ten 22
23 Oregon State 4-4 37 Pac-12 NR
24 West Virginia 5-2 28 Big 12 25
25 Appalachian State 8-2 16 SoCon NR

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

Would absolutely love to get another shot at Missouri this year. Unfortunately, Waters isn't around for Gilman to get some payback, but would love to see the Hawks take it to them. Sorensen-Mayes would be fun, among others.