NCAA and NIL

Did the NCAA punt on NIL and cause the current issues?

  • Yes

    Votes: 43 60.6%
  • No

    Votes: 7 9.9%
  • NCAA is corrupt.

    Votes: 21 29.6%

  • Total voters
    71

obfuscating

HR Heisman
Jan 8, 2016
6,467
3,009
113
Schools in states without legislation are free to create their own NIL laws, based on a set of NCAA guidelines, which mirror the laws already passed.

The guidelines are:

  • Deals cannot serve as recruiting inducements.
  • Athletes cannot receive benefits without services given.
  • Agents or representation are allowed for NIL benefits.
  • Schools cannot be involved in creating opportunities for their athletes.
  • Players cannot promote alcohol, legal drugs like cannabis, tobacco products, adult entertainment or gambling.

 

onlyTheObvious

HR Heisman
Jan 3, 2021
5,611
6,569
113
They wanted to shut up all the Jay Bilas types without the problems of funding it themselves and zero chance of Title IX.

didn’t take an actuarial to figure out this would be the end result. They knew this was the end result.

the studs get paid and some will even make more money than their coaches.
 
Last edited:

Hawkdiver

Team MVP
Jun 27, 2019
265
384
63
I like to look at things from a real world perspective and this includes looking at how the money schools are making should/could be distributed. I just went through a little exercise to see how this could break down on an individual level.

My company has in excess of $10B in annual revenue, of that my division is about $2B, my business unit about $500M, and my work group about $200M. I can personally track that I am 100% responsible for more than $1M of that annual revenue. How much should I be paid? Keep in mind that is pure revenue, no expenses factored in.

Now look at college football. Let's say a team brings in $85M in annual revenue (a fair figure I think but also makes the math easier). With 85 scholarship players that equates to about $1M in revenue each, about the same as I make for my company. Now how much should a player make when comparing equal revenue generated to the "real world"?

Keep in mind these are all pre-expense calculations. I could make a case that the current scholarship ($50,000) plus incidentals (clothing, tutors, healthcare, etc.) probably comes pretty close to what someone in the real world is making while generating the same revenue.

I am not against players making money but it needs to be looked at in comparison to the "real world" which shows that these current NIL deals are out of line with the "real world".
 

LaQuintaHawkeye

HR All-American
Dec 16, 2017
4,381
6,214
113
I HATE THE NIL!!!!!!!! Oh, The Big Ten is about to sign a Billion dollar TV deal that the players wouldn't get a cut of. BUT NIL BAD!
Doesn't any of that go to scholarships, facilities, healthcare, etc?

Not saying players don't deserve a little extra walking around cash for incidentals, but hundreds of thousands of dollars deposited into their bank accounts and brand new SUVs really elevates them to professional status ...that isn't what college is or should be about. Unless we're following the current SEC model.
 

LaQuintaHawkeye

HR All-American
Dec 16, 2017
4,381
6,214
113
Let's say a team brings in $85M in annual revenue (a fair figure I think but also makes the math easier). With 85 scholarship players that equates to about $1M in revenue each

Some players ...(employees)... contribute a greater percentage of the team's success than others.
 

BrunoMars420

HR Legend
Feb 14, 2016
11,400
12,132
113
Doesn't any of that go to scholarships, facilities, healthcare, etc?

Not saying players don't deserve a little extra walking around cash for incidentals, but hundreds of thousands of dollars deposited into their bank accounts and brand new SUVs really elevates them to professional status ...that isn't what college is or should be about. Unless we're following the current SEC model.
Who cares how these players make $$ outside of playing sports?

If the colleges want to benefit from these young athletes name and image (think BTN) then offer him or her a scholarship.
 

Hawk_4shur

HR Legend
Jan 2, 2009
14,974
19,608
113
I like to look at things from a real world perspective and this includes looking at how the money schools are making should/could be distributed. I just went through a little exercise to see how this could break down on an individual level.

My company has in excess of $10B in annual revenue, of that my division is about $2B, my business unit about $500M, and my work group about $200M. I can personally track that I am 100% responsible for more than $1M of that annual revenue. How much should I be paid? Keep in mind that is pure revenue, no expenses factored in.

Now look at college football. Let's say a team brings in $85M in annual revenue (a fair figure I think but also makes the math easier). With 85 scholarship players that equates to about $1M in revenue each, about the same as I make for my company. Now how much should a player make when comparing equal revenue generated to the "real world"?

Keep in mind these are all pre-expense calculations. I could make a case that the current scholarship ($50,000) plus incidentals (clothing, tutors, healthcare, etc.) probably comes pretty close to what someone in the real world is making while generating the same revenue.

I am not against players making money but it needs to be looked at in comparison to the "real world" which shows that these current NIL deals are out of line with the "real world".
I generally agree with your description, and I completely agree with your conclusion.

In the business world, some employees (sales) get paid based on revenue, some based on production and other based on overall contribution. But at the end of the day, employees are generally paid based on the amount of money it would take to replace them, assuming their services are valuable. So, you need to look at more than revenue to determine value.

But, I'm glad you mentioned expenses! No one ever seems to talk about expenses!

In the two years ended June 30, 2019 and June 30, 2020 (leaves out most of the Covid stuff), the University of Iowa athletic department had average revenue of $148,800,000, and incurred average expenses of $147,700,000.

So, the profit for those two years averaged $1,100,000. If you count 85 scholarship football players and 15 basketball players (easy math), that amounts to $11,000 per player, in addition to what they already get.

NIL is a LOT more than that for the chosen few.
 

hexumhawk

HR Legend
Sep 24, 2003
13,325
8,527
113
44
North Liberty
I'm pro NIL but there has to be some kind of regulation and cap per player/team. Otherwise you are getting what we are seeing now which really isn't good.
 

Frosty7130

HR All-American
Oct 11, 2012
3,640
7,540
113
South Dakota
Doesn't any of that go to scholarships, facilities, healthcare, etc?

Not saying players don't deserve a little extra walking around cash for incidentals, but hundreds of thousands of dollars deposited into their bank accounts and brand new SUVs really elevates them to professional status ...that isn't what college is or should be about. Unless we're following the current SEC model.
Most of it does. Very few college athletic departments make a profit, and even those that do not by much.
 

obfuscating

HR Heisman
Jan 8, 2016
6,467
3,009
113
Should everyone on the team get money from everyone's NIL deals? Without the 2nd and 3rd team players the starters get no practice, get no better, etc. Real world - even the janitor gets an income from the company.
 
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onlyTheObvious

HR Heisman
Jan 3, 2021
5,611
6,569
113
Should everyone on the team get money from everyone's NIL deals? Without the 2nd and 3rd team players the starters get no practice, get no better, etc. Real world - even the janitor gets an income from the company.
They could go play at UNI. See how they like equality.

fact is Iowa athletes have it damn damn good. Top notch everything including academic support. If they want FCS or DII or DIII style equality they will be in for a rude awakening.
 

joemc2

HR All-American
Gold Member
Oct 21, 2001
3,881
1,413
113
Player Unions to the rescue!

National Organization of NIL Collectives to file Class Action Suit.
There is nothing wrong with NIL if the regulations that were listed above were followed. It was not to be used as a recruiting tool but as a way to compensate athletes that are on campus. As usual, many schools/boosters have not complied. Probably will be punished almost as bad as Bill Self.
 

LaQuintaHawkeye

HR All-American
Dec 16, 2017
4,381
6,214
113
They could go play at UNI. See how they like equality.

fact is Iowa athletes have it damn damn good. Top notch everything including academic support. If they want FCS or DII or DIII style equality they will be in for a rude awakening.

Sure, the borderline "NIL" worthy kids will stick around, but I could actually see many others going the FCS route.

Lots of FCS kids taken in this most recent draft, so it's not like they don't have the chance to still reach their goals and live the dream. If nothing else they can portal to a P5 after increasing their stock. That will be fun for us Iowa fans, since I'm sure most of them won't want to go to an $EC or traditional power program. 😏
 

obfuscating

HR Heisman
Jan 8, 2016
6,467
3,009
113
They could go play at UNI. See how they like equality.

fact is Iowa athletes have it damn damn good. Top notch everything including academic support. If they want FCS or DII or DIII style equality they will be in for a rude awakening.
Equality is a joke.
 

bumpstock

HR MVP
Feb 27, 2018
2,047
2,439
113
Arizona
There is nothing wrong with NIL if the regulations that were listed above were followed. It was not to be used as a recruiting tool but as a way to compensate athletes that are on campus. As usual, many schools/boosters have not complied. Probably will be punished almost as bad as Bill Self.
We'll soon find out who's really in control...
 

BrunoMars420

HR Legend
Feb 14, 2016
11,400
12,132
113
What is stopping a small business from posting an AD saying:

“Looking for a college athlete to help advertise my business. Please apply by email.”
 
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bumpstock

HR MVP
Feb 27, 2018
2,047
2,439
113
Arizona
So don’t be a booster 🤷🏽‍♂️ Well that was an easy get around lol
You're exactly correct. Boosters are going to start giving all their $$$, instead of most of their $$$, to the Collectives, and not the Schools.

These people (NCAA/Conferences/Schools) are unbelievable. They've lost control, and they can't stand it. Very entertaining to watch!
 
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Heathen Raider

Team MVP
Dec 15, 2021
172
415
63
Make it NIL cash and benefits OR School Paid Schollie and benefits but not both. The top Players and recruits are the only ones benefiting from this anyway.
 

BrunoMars420

HR Legend
Feb 14, 2016
11,400
12,132
113
Make it NIL cash and benefits OR School Paid Schollie and benefits but not both. The top Players and recruits are the only ones benefiting from this anyway.
Why would universities do that? They benefit from having the top players in the country at their school lol. There is a reason why media rights are so massive for the SEC and Big ten
 

Hawkdiver

Team MVP
Jun 27, 2019
265
384
63
So don’t be a booster 🤷🏽‍♂️ Well that was an easy get around lol
This is tougher than you would think. Here is the definition of a booster from the NCAA:

Boosters, referred to by the NCAA as “representatives of the institution’s athletic interests,” include anyone who has:


  • Provided a donation in order to obtain season tickets for any sport at the university.
  • Participated in or has been a member of an organization promoting the university’s athletics programs.
  • Made financial contributions to the athletic department or to a university booster organization.
  • Arranged for or provided employment for enrolled student-athletes.
  • Assisted or has been requested by university staff to assist in the recruitment of prospective student-athletes.
  • Assisted in providing benefits to enrolled student athletes or their families.
  • Been involved otherwise in promoting university athletics.

Once an individual is identified as a “representative of the institution’s athletics interests,” the person retains that identity forever.

Anyone that has ever made a donation to the athletic department is a booster. Former athletes are boosters. That I-Club membership right after you graduated makes you a booster and you hold that title for life.
 

onlyTheObvious

HR Heisman
Jan 3, 2021
5,611
6,569
113
Sure, the borderline "NIL" worthy kids will stick around, but I could actually see many others going the FCS route.

Lots of FCS kids taken in this most recent draft, so it's not like they don't have the chance to still reach their goals and live the dream. If nothing else they can portal to a P5 after increasing their stock. That will be fun for us Iowa fans, since I'm sure most of them won't want to go to an $EC or traditional power program. 😏
So go to a place where your situation is worse but you are happy nobody has it better?

lenin and Trotsky State
 

Capital1Hawk

HR All-American
Jan 23, 2007
3,429
1,789
113
Schools in states without legislation are free to create their own NIL laws, based on a set of NCAA guidelines, which mirror the laws already passed.

The guidelines are:

  • Deals cannot serve as recruiting inducements.
  • Athletes cannot receive benefits without services given.
  • Agents or representation are allowed for NIL benefits.
  • Schools cannot be involved in creating opportunities for their athletes.
  • Players cannot promote alcohol, legal drugs like cannabis, tobacco products, adult entertainment or gambling.

Since the players are getting paid which they deserve. They need to implement salary caps to keep the Yankees from buying championships. No manipulation of it either. You get $5 million per class and pay it out accordingly. So a class of 25 would be average of $200k per player. There has to to be some rules to this chaos.
 

BrunoMars420

HR Legend
Feb 14, 2016
11,400
12,132
113
Since the players are getting paid which they deserve. They need to implement salary caps to keep the Yankees from buying championships. No manipulation of it either. You get $5 million per class and pay it out accordingly. So a class of 25 would be average of $200k per player. There has to to be some rules to this chaos.
The Yankees haven’t won a World Series since 2009 lol
 

BrunoMars420

HR Legend
Feb 14, 2016
11,400
12,132
113
This is tougher than you would think. Here is the definition of a booster from the NCAA:

Boosters, referred to by the NCAA as “representatives of the institution’s athletic interests,” include anyone who has:


  • Provided a donation in order to obtain season tickets for any sport at the university.
  • Participated in or has been a member of an organization promoting the university’s athletics programs.
  • Made financial contributions to the athletic department or to a university booster organization.
  • Arranged for or provided employment for enrolled student-athletes.
  • Assisted or has been requested by university staff to assist in the recruitment of prospective student-athletes.
  • Assisted in providing benefits to enrolled student athletes or their families.
  • Been involved otherwise in promoting university athletics.

Once an individual is identified as a “representative of the institution’s athletics interests,” the person retains that identity forever.

Anyone that has ever made a donation to the athletic department is a booster. Former athletes are boosters. That I-Club membership right after you graduated makes you a booster and you hold that title for life.
I’m sure there are a little more complex ways to get around it. Maybe a booster can gift a certain amount to a non booster or have a non booster create a new LLC and get funding from “partners”
 

mooresville hawk

HR All-American
Feb 4, 2004
2,660
5,117
113
I like to look at things from a real world perspective and this includes looking at how the money schools are making should/could be distributed. I just went through a little exercise to see how this could break down on an individual level.

My company has in excess of $10B in annual revenue, of that my division is about $2B, my business unit about $500M, and my work group about $200M. I can personally track that I am 100% responsible for more than $1M of that annual revenue. How much should I be paid? Keep in mind that is pure revenue, no expenses factored in.

Now look at college football. Let's say a team brings in $85M in annual revenue (a fair figure I think but also makes the math easier). With 85 scholarship players that equates to about $1M in revenue each, about the same as I make for my company. Now how much should a player make when comparing equal revenue generated to the "real world"?

Keep in mind these are all pre-expense calculations. I could make a case that the current scholarship ($50,000) plus incidentals (clothing, tutors, healthcare, etc.) probably comes pretty close to what someone in the real world is making while generating the same revenue.

I am not against players making money but it needs to be looked at in comparison to the "real world" which shows that these current NIL deals are out of line with the "real world".

The problem with this analysis is that the money for NIL is coming from outside interests. Those giving the money do not care about the profitability or revenue that the school is making as long as it does not impact winning. They only care about winning. Right now, those with the deepest pockets will win. In your example, it would be like people offering you money to entice you to stay at your current employer because they like your company.
 
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mooresville hawk

HR All-American
Feb 4, 2004
2,660
5,117
113
Would making all scholarships four year contracts eliminate some of the tampering? A coach and player would need to meet and agree to let the player out of the contract if that is determined to be the best option for both parties.
 

BrunoMars420

HR Legend
Feb 14, 2016
11,400
12,132
113
Would making all scholarships four year contracts eliminate some of the tampering? A coach and player would need to meet and agree to let the player out of the contract if that is determined to be the best option for both parties.
Why would any university do this? Are they not making enough money off these young adults? Who are the greedy ones now? 🤷🏽‍♂️
 

onlyTheObvious

HR Heisman
Jan 3, 2021
5,611
6,569
113
Since the players are getting paid which they deserve. They need to implement salary caps to keep the Yankees from buying championships. No manipulation of it either. You get $5 million per class and pay it out accordingly. So a class of 25 would be average of $200k per player. There has to to be some rules to this chaos.
Who is “you”?

the school gets to decide which private parties can pay players and how much?

not going to happen because of too many reasons to even list.
 
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twindman

HR MVP
Sep 1, 2010
1,762
985
113
I HATE THE NIL!!!!!!!! Oh, The Big Ten is about to sign a Billion dollar TV deal that the players wouldn't get a cut of. BUT NIL BAD!
Oh, yeah. Except for the hundreds of athletes in the other sports that are funded by FB and a little BB. So right, the athletes get nothing. OH also there is the small $40-60K for tuition and board and tutors.
 

StarHawk

Team MVP
May 27, 2019
287
462
63
2 simple rules was all the NCAA needed to corral the NIL and Transfer Portal problem.

1. Only NIL money or "deals" can be earned by players or tranfers after completing one year at a University. This seems so logical....image and likeness can only occur if a play has actually played...otherwise it's only enticement.

2. Free Transfer is only allowed for Freshman (hey they made a mistake or were lied to) and Grad Transfers (have earned the right). And only free transfer to school not on ex-team's upcoming season's schedule.

btw...isn't it telling that 2 of the states to first adopt pay for play state laws were California and Nebraska, both having former might football programs Trojans and Huskers that are desparate to win again. Nebraska media is cheering it on for now they claim to be #1 at Transfer recruitiment (pay for play enticement). The latest a TCU DE for around $600,000 they say.....Bravo GBR...but these mercenaries they are gathering (just like Hoibergs flops) tend to have zero feelings for the state or program...just cash!....and Coach mumbles is building a House of Cards....topples easy.
 

mooresville hawk

HR All-American
Feb 4, 2004
2,660
5,117
113
Why would any university do this? Are they not making enough money off these young adults? Who are the greedy ones now? 🤷🏽‍♂️

How is this greedy? The players can still make NIL money. I think the larger schools with donors with deep pockets will balk, but this would be beneficial for most schools in that it may reduce some of the tampering we are seeing now. It may not help, but was just an idea.
 

SoDakHawk

HR Legend
Sep 14, 2006
12,878
12,177
113
I HATE THE NIL!!!!!!!! Oh, The Big Ten is about to sign a Billion dollar TV deal that the players wouldn't get a cut of. BUT NIL BAD!
University of Illinois was looking at adding a men's ice hockey program but had to scrap the idea because they are running a $300 million deficit in their athletic department. Contrary to what people believe these ADs don't have as much money as you think.

The NCAA requires D1 schools to offer 7 sports for men and 7 for women or 6 men/8 women. At most schools, only the football and men's basketball programs make any money (baseball, hockey, and wrestling do at some as well), so there are 12 other sports that lose money that the AD has to pay for. Not only that, Title 9 says that the school has to offer those revenue losing women's sports equitable support, meaning coaches, facilities, etc. It costs a ton of money to pay for these sports, their scholarships, coaches, facilities, travel, etc.

You think the football and basketball players aren't getting their fair share, point your ire at Title 9.