The funny thing is the manual doesn't say that...but we can't enforce the manual. I get frustrated because I'm usually the last person in the building enforcing the manual.
Nearly 700 teachers projected to leave Omaha Public Schools by July 1
- Thread starter gohawks50
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Like I said priority one should be as much money in the classroom as possible. If I was running things. That's how I'd view all new funds being spent.
See below
And reducing class sizes requires more classrooms which means more buildings. Which requires more funding.
See above. Where do you think the issues begin? We have 35+ kids in a classroom. Hallways are jampacked at class change. They carry their backpacks all day because there aren't enough lockers by a long shot for the population of students - a building built for fewer than 800 is housing over 1,100.
First time a kid acts up on the first day of school, call a school assembly. Bring that kid on stage and cane him/her in front of the other students. In 2 weeks our discipline issues are 98% solved. My former FiL said "bullet in the head" but that goes a little too far.
It will literally take something drastic. Probably the most realistic thing that could be done is that problem kids go to online learning platforms and we no longer have them ruining the in classroom learning environment.
Teachers have complained about student behavior and administrative response to it for all of the 30+ years I've been in the classroom. The issue today is a lack of funding to address the issues of a growing and changing school population. Throw in a lack of respect from the state capitol all the way down to the local school board and you have a witch's brew of problems.
This I agree with, however, the behaviors are a LOT worse than they were when I started 23 years ago, and I started in Middle School BD. The issues in the BMS article weren't happening 30 years ago. Teachers weren't getting verbally and physical assaulted on the regular when I first started. Kids were controllable. Now, they know there's nothing that can be done to them. I was just told yesterday that at one of our high schools the kids will give the school cop a bunch of crap now because they know his power to arrest them has been taken away from him, for the most part.
The day we took away the ability for our educators to discipline our children is the day education started to die!
I used to do “career days” at our local junior high and high schools back in the day. I was in transportation, Logistics and warehouses management back then. I always said that the toughest jobs in the workforce were teaching our youth and driving a truck!
and even back then, truck drivers were doing far better financially than our favorite teachers. But what kid ever woke up and said “I want to be a truck driver”?
it’s all about funding and handcuffing their ability to discipline!
Mike
I used to do “career days” at our local junior high and high schools back in the day. I was in transportation, Logistics and warehouses management back then. I always said that the toughest jobs in the workforce were teaching our youth and driving a truck!
and even back then, truck drivers were doing far better financially than our favorite teachers. But what kid ever woke up and said “I want to be a truck driver”?
it’s all about funding and handcuffing their ability to discipline!
Mike
I think the biggest thing that could improve discipline is parents supporting teachers. If the parent had a stake in their child's good behavior at school then it would improve. I don't know how it would work, but if we could reward the parents for helping improve their child's behavior I think we would see less discipline problems. However, my idea is about as likely to happen as your idea of publicly caning students.
When a kid becomes a discipline problem they should suspended and turned over to their parents for resolution,.. No resolution, no school.
I appreciate your reply and without trying to be argumentative, I see additional funding as secondary to establishing, or re-establishing as the case may be, and maintaining basic decorum and discipline.
It could be viewed that dedicating more funds towards staffing more adults in order to deal with problem behaviors is not really addressing the core problem. That is, unchecked lack of discipline.
I would not oppose additional funding...BUT...to me it should come AFTER establishing proper behaviors. Otherwise, you will never have enough dollars to fund enough positions to corral the aberrant behavior, IMO. In the meantime, it does stink that the good teachers /paras have to shoulder more responsibility AND that the good students lose out because the adults are forced to dedicate more time and attention to the misbehaving ones.
I just see the re-establishment of decorum as priority #1. Without that, you will never catch up trying to fund the workarounds. But I think your points are valid.
Do you see a path to put the required discipline back in public school districts?
serious question…..cause I don’t. Too many people want to litigate instead of taking responsibility for their lack of parenting and their Johnny/Sally being an obnoxious little shit all the time….which they created!
Z
We have actually had that conversation about paying families for kids with zero office referrals. Bribing parents to parent.
I hear you but I'm not trying to be reactive with hiring more staff. I KNOW we NEED more adults working with our kids, from early ages. If we had a couple of paras for every grade here to share, that would give a lot of kids extra attention/help understanding what was taught, or keeping them on task with some of the programs they go through for math and reading.
I think most teachers would take any plan that would get the adults back in control of our schools. Nothing is overly working which is why, when all I see is cut after cut, taking people and programs away from kids, I believe we need many more adults working with the children.
It sounds that way, but when you think about it, parents with kids that behave badly probably already have a negative association with being in school. They often struggled academically or were in trouble themselves. We continue to reinforce those feelings when we are contacting them about their child's misbehavior. If we could change their attitudes about schools somehow maybe they would be more supportive.
We just had a kid suspended on Friday, 6th grader. He's been a major behavior problem for 3 years, since he moved in 4th grade. Last week he threatened to bring in a gun and shoot people. Needless to say he got suspended for the rest of the year. His mom, who is more interested in being cool and his friend, raised holy hell in the office. She pull the 4th grade brother as well. Never mind that her oldest is destined for the federal penitentiary. It's the school's fault.
Our local school district has a kid purposely cut some seats on the bus. The parents said no way their kid would do that.
the school showed them the video. The parents still denied it.
truth is stranger than fiction.
This sounds like a huge, multi-faceted crisis by all accounts from the teachers here. No more important task than education for kids.
First of all, schools need to be free to address the issues, so litigation needs to become almost a non-factor in decision making. Of course, the priority needs to be education for kids, including discipline. Parents need to be educated about the magnitude of the issues.
Comparatively, my school sounds like it would have been martial law by today's standards. Maybe need to go back in that direction.
btw, iPhones should not be allowed in school imo.
First of all, schools need to be free to address the issues, so litigation needs to become almost a non-factor in decision making. Of course, the priority needs to be education for kids, including discipline. Parents need to be educated about the magnitude of the issues.
Comparatively, my school sounds like it would have been martial law by today's standards. Maybe need to go back in that direction.
btw, iPhones should not be allowed in school imo.
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I think the parents and other adults need to pressure school boards everywhere to re-establish discipline and set a tone. I know multiple teachers personally that have had it drilled into them over the past decade or more that you don't dare touch a student, etc, etc. I think we swung the pendulum way too far to the permissive side of things now and some of the kids know it. It will take many in society to band together to swing it back towards some sort of atmosphere that is conducive to learning.
I don't see any easy answers, BUT, there is no way we can leave things be as they are now. Total breakdown and chaos are coming at this rate, at least in some schools. I also know of schools that have almost none of these issues...but, the parents there are very involved, there is involvement by others in the "community", the staff is firm, but still loving and fair, etc. In other words, I know it can be done, but it starts with the parents supporting the teachers and staff...well really, it starts with the parents instilling discipline and respect in the home first.
Good teachers deserve parental support, and also administrative support.
Thanks for the thoughtful replies. Again, not trying to be argumentative, but way back in the day when I went to school, I don't remember there being any paras or the suchlike. (This is not to say that there should be none today BTW.) But...one teacher fairly easily controlled our whole class.
Some kids were peeled out to go to separate Speech class, etc, but in the main, one teacher had about 22'ish kids to handle and generally speaking...was able to do so. If any of the kids got far enough out of line the principal was called, or you were sent there, and that often spelled corporal punishment. But it also largely worked.
I think we probably agree on this way more than we disagree, but I would first re-establish discipline...then look to see where other staff could aid the education effort and not just be there for crowd control.
If you don't want the principal to spank your kid...fine...give us your phone number so we can call you to come get him/her when they get that out of line. If you choose none of the above, fine, we will now assign your kid to behavior school and/or expel them.
(Not aiming at you Tom.) But we have way "over corrected" on discipline in schools to where there appears to be NONE, at least in some places. That is NEVER going to work. We need to slide the discipline back to where it belongs. There needs to be actual consequences for disrupting your school. Our society at large is out of whack on this...but I know for a fact that some school systems do not have a problem like this at all. Parental involvement, accountability, consequences, etc, will go a LONG ways towards restoring order.
The only positive for schools now is video evidence. The parents may not agree with video interpretation bu I would hope the principal and school board could watch a disruptive kid and remove them from the normal classroom until the situation is rectified.
I have no hope for parents. The percentage that are worthless grows every year. It’s why after school programs that feed, bathe, educate, and mentor are greatly needed. I would be fine with a national tax on alcohol where each school district got the money to fund after school programs and discipline strategies.
there is a glut of recent college grads that say “ I want to work with kids “ but for whatever reason didn’t get a teaching credential. This would be perfect for them. Keep the money local. No state board of bla bla bla or some AEA losers creating more high paying jobs that don’t have contact with kids.
I have no hope for parents. The percentage that are worthless grows every year. It’s why after school programs that feed, bathe, educate, and mentor are greatly needed. I would be fine with a national tax on alcohol where each school district got the money to fund after school programs and discipline strategies.
there is a glut of recent college grads that say “ I want to work with kids “ but for whatever reason didn’t get a teaching credential. This would be perfect for them. Keep the money local. No state board of bla bla bla or some AEA losers creating more high paying jobs that don’t have contact with kids.
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The issue with not putting hands on a child is that it is against the law, at least in Iowa. If a kid is destroying a classroom, you can not touch the kid unless they are a threat to another student and even then you need to be CPI trained. If a kid is on the floor having a major meltdown you are not allow to touch them at all. If a room has to be cleared, all parents of the students in the room need to be called within 24 hours to inform. If a teacher touches a student that is in a meltdown, those parents need to be called. If a child is put into a safe room, the parents need to be called. The law works against schools to the point that adults are not allowed to restrain a child, even if the adult is getting assaulted.
The major problem is the "rules" around suspension have tightened and it is near impossible to suspend a kid anymore and expulsion is really impossible. The reason being the impression that the student is not receiving their state required education when the district has them out of the classroom.
I shared this a couple weeks ago but on a Thursday my wife caught a kid cheating on his test (using his phone) and took the test and sent him to the office. He refused to go so security showed up to escort him. While being removed he told both my wife and the security person he was going to kill them (from a kid that wouldn't surprise anyone to do it). He was suspended on Friday and walked into class Monday (15 minutes late) with a smug grin on his face saying "thanks for the long weekend". One day for a death threat is the most the school could do and the kid knows it and will use it to his advantage.
The better part is my wife had to then stay late so he could take the test and be 1 on 1, on her own time, with someone that threatened to kill her less than a week earlier.
I shared this a couple weeks ago but on a Thursday my wife caught a kid cheating on his test (using his phone) and took the test and sent him to the office. He refused to go so security showed up to escort him. While being removed he told both my wife and the security person he was going to kill them (from a kid that wouldn't surprise anyone to do it). He was suspended on Friday and walked into class Monday (15 minutes late) with a smug grin on his face saying "thanks for the long weekend". One day for a death threat is the most the school could do and the kid knows it and will use it to his advantage.
The better part is my wife had to then stay late so he could take the test and be 1 on 1, on her own time, with someone that threatened to kill her less than a week earlier.
