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Nearly 80% of Americans believe minors should wait to get permanent gender-affirming care

I mean duh, the fact there is 20% who disagree with this is alarming.

Once you turn 21, have all the surgeries you want. The more the merrier. But until then there should be required therapy and education on life altering choices like this.

For the record, I do consider myself a Democrat but we've gone and lost our minds regarding our children. I do not think a 14 year old should be able to under-go a sex change.
 
I suppose I'd be in the 80% depending on how the question was worded. That said it's fun how that article dovetailed into high-school athletics.

Is the entire nation afflicted with add?
 
Other than for true medical reasons, changes should wait until after puberty.
 
Sure. But it’s also like 482nd on my list of things I think politicians should get involved with.
That is fine if gender care for minors is not important to you. You can vote for the issues that are important to you.

It seems pretty egocentric to think no one else should care just because you dont.

I think we are all lucky that you don't get to decide what is important for the rest of us
 
Other than for true medical reasons, changes should wait until after puberty.
This is just split balling but, I would bet that that is the medical opinion given in nearly every situation. It's hard to know though because the medical records and procedures of minors is none of "our" damn buisness.
 
This is just split balling but, I would bet that that is the medical opinion given in nearly every situation. It's hard to know though because the medical records and procedures of minors is none of "our" damn buisness.

The problem is that parents can shop around until they find a "medical opinion" that agrees with them. I have seen this in action.

And I do believe protecting minors is our business.
 
The problem is that parents can shop around until they find a "medical opinion" that agrees with them. I have seen this in action.

And I do believe protecting minors is our business.
You've seen parents shopping doctors for gender reassignment procedures for their children?
 
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This is just split balling but, I would bet that that is the medical opinion given in nearly every situation. It's hard to know though because the medical records and procedures of minors is none of "our" damn buisness.
In general, protecting children is everyone's business when a child is being abused. I don't and won't go as far as using the term "mutilation', and sometimes there are injuries or genital issues at birth that require a medical decision. When it comes to gender identity, a child that hasn't gone through puberty isn't going to be able to fairly evaluate how they feel. Hormones are a part of how that works. That's a decision parents shouldn't be making too early in a child's life.

It's noble to think that every doctor will make the right decision in every case. In virtually every type of medicine we nearly always have doctors who will disagree with other doctors. Why would you think it would be different for this type of surgery?
 
In general, protecting children is everyone's business when a child is being abused. I don't and won't go as far as using the term "mutilation', and sometimes there are injuries or genital issues at birth that require a medical decision. When it comes to gender identity, a child that hasn't gone through puberty isn't going to be able to fairly evaluate how they feel. Hormones are a part of how that works. That's a decision parents shouldn't be making too early in a child's life.

It's noble to think that every doctor will make the right decision in every case. In virtually every type of medicine we nearly always have doctors who will disagree with other doctors. Why would you think it would be different for this type of surgery?

I don't think every doctor will make the right decision in every case, that's ridiculous.

You must have glossed over where I said I'm probably in the 80%.
 
This is just split balling but, I would bet that that is the medical opinion given in nearly every situation. It's hard to know though because the medical records and procedures of minors is none of "our" damn buisness.
This is not true.

The widely accepted standards of care for gender treatment recommends affirmation therapy.

This means the medical provider has to make sure the patient is decisional (eg. Not in a psychotic episode, or something similar). Otherwise they mostly go with what the patient wants.

Social conversion is recommended right away, soon followed by hormone therapy if desired by the patient. the recommendation for hormone therapy is to start when the patient is in tanner stage 2 (start of puberty).

Top surgeries are generally not paid for by most insurances until the age of 18, but if the parents want to pay out of pocket then the surgeon will usually do it.

Most places will not do bottom surgery on underage kids.
 
This is not true.

The widely accepted standards of care for gender treatment recommends affirmation therapy.

This means the medical provider has to make sure the patient is decisional (eg. Not in a psychotic episode, or something similar). Otherwise they mostly go with what the patient wants.

Social conversion is recommended right away, soon followed by hormone therapy if desired by the patient. the recommendation for hormone therapy is to start when the patient is in tanner stage 2 (start of puberty).

Top surgeries are generally not paid for by most insurances until the age of 18, but if the parents want to pay out of pocket then the surgeon will usually do it.

Most places will not do bottom surgery on underage kids.
You have a link and stats on that?
 
You have a link and stats on that?
What do you want stats on? The standards of care are the wpath 8.

Nothing I said is inaccurate. Look it up. I am happy to help you understand what goes on in real life, but you have to be willing to hear the truth. If you don't care, then I won't wate my time.
 
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I don't think every doctor will make the right decision in every case, that's ridiculous.

You must have glossed over where I said I'm probably in the 80%.
I just made a comment. I wasn't trying to put you on the defensive. Sorry you took it that way.
 
What do you want stats on? The standards of care are the wpath 8.

Nothing I said is inaccurate. Look it up. I am happy to help you understand what goes on in real life, but you have to be willing to hear the truth. If you don't care, then I won't wate my time.
Good lord, I'm not arguing with you.

You responded to my post about the frequency of these permanent procedures. Nothing about your post makes you seem happy at all.
 
I just made a comment. I wasn't trying to put you on the defensive. Sorry you took it that way.

No worries. But I'm not being defensive, I made a statement that clearly stated I was spit-balling and now multiple posters are editorializing my guestimation.

This could be an opportunity to help out by pointing out where I'm mistaken and clarify the numbers. I am genuinely curious about this because every conversation, especially here, rests solely on the extreme and the emotions that those extremes produce.
 
Sure. But it’s also like 482nd on my list of things I think politicians should get involved with.
Sure, but if the Democratic Party would distance itself from that 20% and the BLM movement, Amnesty…y’all would dominate
 
No worries. But I'm not being defensive, I made a statement that clearly stated I was spit-balling and now multiple posters are editorializing my guestimation.

This could be an opportunity to help out by pointing out where I'm mistaken and clarify the numbers. I am genuinely curious about this because every conversation, especially here, rests solely on the extreme and the emotions that those extremes produce.
I can appreciate this.

The number of those seeking gender care has risen by almost 300%.

At least 121,882 children ages 6 to 17 were diagnosed with gender dysphoria from 2017 through 2021.

Over the last five years, there were at least 4,780 adolescents who started on puberty blockers and had a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis.

At least 14,726 minors started hormone treatment with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis from 2017 through 2021
 
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The Komodo analysis of insurance claims found 56 genital surgeries among patients ages 13 to 17 with a prior gender dysphoria diagnosis from 2019 to 2021. Among teens, “top surgery” to remove breasts is more common. In the three years ending in 2021, at least 776 mastectomies were performed in the United States on patients ages 13 to 17 with a gender dysphoria diagnosis, according to Komodo’s data analysis of insurance claims. This tally does not include procedures that were paid for out of pocket.
 
Yes. Former friends of ours did exactly that for their middle school age child.
This is not true.

The widely accepted standards of care for gender treatment recommends affirmation therapy.

This means the medical provider has to make sure the patient is decisional (eg. Not in a psychotic episode, or something similar). Otherwise they mostly go with what the patient wants.

Social conversion is recommended right away, soon followed by hormone therapy if desired by the patient. the recommendation for hormone therapy is to start when the patient is in tanner stage 2 (start of puberty).

Top surgeries are generally not paid for by most insurances until the age of 18, but if the parents want to pay out of pocket then the surgeon will usually do it.

Most places will not do bottom surgery on underage kids.
Yeah from what I've read this all tilts heavily towards females getting hormone therapy and then breast removal.

Not so much "bottom" surgery.

Part of the problem, as already mentioned, is that there isn't uniform standard of care and you can usually find a doc to do what you want.

Secondly... we're probably seeing a new sort of gender-dyphoria patient emerging... something our previous models of care for the gender dysphoric weren't built for.
 
A 16 year-old can get pregnant and keep the baby, but a 17 year-old can’t get gender affirming care with the consent of her parents and doctors?
 
A 16 year-old can get pregnant and keep the baby, but a 17 year-old can’t get gender affirming care with the consent of her parents and doctors?
Just because it can happen, does not mean it should be widely accepted.

And yet that same 16/17 year old can't smoke, drink, buy porn, etc. why should they be able to make life changing decisions but not even be able to drink alcohol?
 
A 16 year-old can get pregnant and keep the baby, but a 17 year-old can’t get gender affirming care with the consent of her parents and doctors?
They should get "gender affirming care"......they shouldn't get castrated, a mastectomy or other irreversible procedures until they're an adult. Doesn't seem like an unreasonable position
 
Sure, but if the Democratic Party would distance itself from that 20% and the BLM movement, Amnesty…y’all would dominate
You and I agree. But I would argue that most Dems are distanced from those issues. But R’s have done a better job of painting us all with a broad brush and Dems can’t counter because they suck at messaging.
 
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Just because it can happen, does not mean it should be widely accepted.

And yet that same 16/17 year old can't smoke, drink, buy porn, etc. why should they be able to make life changing decisions but not even be able to drink alcohol?
It’s the age of consent in Arkansas. That means they believe a 16 year old is perfectly capable of making life changing decisions involving their sexuality.

If states want to add an evidentiary hearing like with legal emancipation, I’d be fine with that.
 
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100 percent of trans people just want to live their lives like everyone else gets to. In private, and without people like the OP giving himself the vapors getting all worked up over people he'll never meet. But, there is profitability in rage politics and bullying a very, very small minority of the population.
 
100 percent of trans people just want to live their lives like everyone else gets to. In private, and without people like the OP giving himself the vapors getting all worked up over people he'll never meet. But, there is profitability in rage politics and bullying a very, very small minority of the population.
This is a very idealistic take on this whole situation.

This situation is not necessarily a problem toward trans people, it is more an issue with how we got to this point.

The standards of care for gender dysphoria used to be way more objective in the past. I believe it way 2011, these standards were updated by a bunch of trans activists/doctors who got rid of a lot of the criteria for diagnosis and went to gender affirming care (patient decides what is wrong and how they want to be treated).

During this same time, gay rights and gay marriage was the big push. Gender affirmation got lumped in with gay rights because it was easy.

This is where politics come in play. If an individual or doctor opposed gender affirming care, then they would be labeled homophobic and transphobic. And eventually led to lots of people being canceled. This movement successfully got the public to get on board with gender affirming care (or at least stop opposing it).

The really interesting thing is, there is no solid data that shows gender affirming care is beneficial, nor is hormones or surgery.

The biggest data point in favor of hormones and gender affirming care was to decrease the suicide rate, but these numbers have actually increased sine 2011.
 
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So basically, we are experimenting with kids and hoping for positive outcomes.
 
100 percent of trans people just want to live their lives like everyone else gets to. In private, and without people like the OP giving himself the vapors getting all worked up over people he'll never meet. But, there is profitability in rage politics and bullying a very, very small minority of the population.

Another lazy and predictable response.
 
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