New Senior Big Board on Flo - Daton Fix #1, Spencer Lee #2

[smalls103]

Willie, I'm glad you post here and I hope you don't stop. I wouldn't worry too much about HR. We are all good peeps and sometimes we just take offense to somethings. It's just easy to do. Also without naming names, can you give us a crazy/absurd comment you have gotten from a parent?

A ton of you are great people. I say it on FRL all the time. I love HR and wish every fan base had a population as passionate as y'all. However that doesn't mean i'm gonna sit idle when there's jibberish being passed around. I can't shut up when it comes to those things.

 

[Lsanders20]

I have always considered subscribing to Flo being a big wrestling fan, but after reading this thread I think I will forget about that. You're not a very good salesman Smalls and if I was in charge over there you would be out. Not that you care what a bunch of delusional wrestling fans think.
It's one thing to stand behind a ranking that changed for no good reason. Almost like a take down that happens when nothing changes during a stalemate. But to come on here and call out the hundreds of posters and probably thousands of viewers/potential customers? Not the smartest strategy, but let's see how it works out for you.

 

[smalls103]

cry me a river. now you're going to play the sympathy card, and i'm supposed to be apologetic?

i LITERALLY said on the first page it was only a handful of you.

think what you want, write what you want. i'm out.

 

[bbwretler]

cry me a river. now you're going to play the sympathy card, and i'm supposed to be apologetic?

i LITERALLY said on the first page it was only a handful of you.

think what you want, write what you want. i'm out.

Thank you and good night!

 

[Kwoodhawk]

appreciate the words.

but the track record here is that everything that HR doesn't agree with was done for an ulterior motive.

I am currently a paying customer with Flo..........so I feel entitled to give you my viewpoint since you've shown up here and decided to engage us.

Whether there are 40 or so here or not I do not know or care really, but you must realize that there are quite a bit fewer of those 40 that seem to be anti Flo biased. They are by far the minority, not the majority.

So by being part of the 40 here I feel lumped in to "your" tinfoil wearing anti Flo group that is paranoid and delusional and is not something I appreciate very much. I am sure there are others that feel the same.

I appreciate you coming and explaining the situations that seem to come up. But making accusations against ALL of HR really brings you down to the level of those who are making posts aginst Flo.

Perhaps I am expecting you to have better judgement and discernment than some of the negative posters here.

Perhaps you can display those skills here sometime in the future since today didn't seem to be one of your better forays into our delusional world.

 

[smalls103]

you're right.

and my better judgement will display itself by not posting here at all.

can't win with you guys. so keep believing everything you don't agree with on flo is done to get under your skin, get clicks, yada, yada, yada...

 

[Leepe]

Too bad your better judgement didn't kick in a few hours ago.

 

[WildTurk]

you're right.

and my better judgement will display itself by not posting here at all.

can't win with you guys. so keep believing everything you don't agree with on flo is done to get under your skin, get clicks, yada, yada, yada...

You will be missed.. by atleast 40 posters. Its to bad your sensitive feelings made you take such a drastic measure over nothing at all. Take Care

 

[wasdt21]

what is everybody so wound up about, daton fix is an awesome wrestler and deserving of anything written about him, i would rather have spencer coming in, but hard for me to be objective. nobody knows who will have a better college career(there are to many factors in play)i can't predict the future,nonads can't predict the future.relax. i am getting tired of the victim act from tiny willy tho(who still owes gman an apology as far as i'm concerned)

 

[bbwretler]

Lets just forget about the clicks. Just analyze the reasoning behind the change in status that caused all this. It would seem that the rational of determining that by losing and by having close matches means a wrestler is superior to another seems far fetched at the very least. It would seem that whatever the motive there would be a suspicion of a bias unless you can shed a more logical reasoning. Personally i dont really care if Spencer is rated one or two. It will work it out itself during the next few years. However, even you are saying it seems that it should be the other way around. Everyone has a right to their opinion and your staff should have someting other than loses and close matches to base their opinion/bias on. Which is it?

 

[Mpchillin]

Who gives a shit? 3 pages for this? It's one guy's opinion.

 

[Leepe]

So to sum up:
- Flo says Fix > Lee, because the new ranker thinks so.
- HR says, I disagree, but whatever, Flo just wants more clicks.
- Flo says, 40 of you guys are crazy conspiracy theorists.
- HR says, we usually like you, but your defense and accusations tonight suck.

 

[WildTurk]

what is everybody so wound up about, daton fix is an awesome wrestler and deserving of anything written about him, i would rather have spencer coming in, but hard for me to be objective. nobody knows who will have a better college career(there are to many factors in play)i can't predict the future,nonads can't predict the future.relax. i am getting tired of the victim act from tiny willy tho(who still owes gman an apology as far as i'm concerned)

I have no problem with Fix being #1. He is a beast with 2 freestyle wins over Lee that had to play into the Flo ranking. That #2 ranking will only drive Spencer more imo. I always defend HR however which Willie has had a clear, recurring problem with past and present.

 

[Azchief32]

So I read the article. One might have a point if you are looking at freestyle but the matches with Fix were close 5-5, and a two point difference I think in the other....Lee had the most takedowns and could get in on Daton's legs pretty easily but Daton is freestyle funky and can score exposures on pretty much anybody...especially when he gets into a chest wrap. Those are not points in folk. Spencer wrestled up at his walking around. Even if you agree that Daton is a better freestyle guy, it's a razor thin margin and Spencer has been great when it counted.

We have also forgot that Spencer is just as good on top in folkstyle as he is on his feet. He is one of the best turn/back points guy in the U.S. This will be huge in college because not many guys can both take guys down plus ride well and turn good competition. He is going to break a lot of guys this way...similar to Streibler. I think the only question Lee will have to answer coming in to college is whether he can get out from bottom right away cause it's just a different animal for freshman.

This article was written by gut and observation with the author admitting he has never met Spencer or Daton. Basically his own uneducated personal bias. For example, Lee runs off the mat like that all the time unless its the world championship or something big. Also, he has ran off the mat dissatisfied and been interviewed by Flo five minutes later and been able to give a detailed analysis and critical examination of his matches without being pissed....has been doing this for Flo since the age of 13 or 14. That's maturity.

Willie...you have known Spencer since he was a kid and know his mindset. What was his reaction after getting beat by Daton? Jumped on the Jr World Team at a lower weight and went out and won a world title...nobody went the distance with him. Adversity? Came back from shoulder surgery in the fall and won PA states by TF or pin in each round (to include an undefeated Top 5 Flo guy in Desanto(?) on a match or two warm up before post season tourneys.

The logic in this whole thing is amusing. Great come back in a Junior World championship, in front of his french family, seemingly exhausted as hell but yea...his body language after winning a Powerade ain't quite right. As for clicks? Hell I don't know. However, something is rotten in Denmark when a rating system changes its whole perspective over two close losses that happened almost a year and half ago without any tangible evidence in the present.

 

[Azchief32]

Azchief32, my daughter lives in Tucson and I was just there before christmas and will be back this spring. If you are still around we should have a drink and talk Iowa wrestling. Spent quite a bit of time in the room a number of years ago.

Would love to bro but I am going to be in IC this spring (I think). Let me know when you get close to the time coming down here.

 

[tigerguy_]

So to sum up:
- Flo says Fix > Lee, because the new ranker thinks so.
- HR says, I disagree, but whatever, Flo just wants more clicks.
- Flo says, 40 of you guys are crazy conspiracy theorists.
- HR says, we usually like you, but your defense and accusations tonight suck.

You forgot to add Smalls says:
- "I'm out".
- Ok after this post now "I'm out".
- I mean it, have a good night because now "I'm done posting and now I'm out."
- "I'm out."
- OK that's it, seriously "I'm out for good now."

 

[Kwoodhawk]

You forgot to add Smalls says:
- "I'm out".
- Ok after this post now "I'm out".
- I mean it, have a good night because now "I'm done posting and now I'm out."
- "I'm out."
- OK that's it, seriously "I'm out for good now."

You still here............?

 

[bbwretler]

Would love to bro but I am going to be in IC this spring (I think). Let me know when you get close to the time coming down here.

Live in Coralville so can always do it here as well. Here you are moving here. My wife has been a realtor here for 25 years if you are looking for something to buy.

 

[pumpdog20]

Meh, it's all good Willie. Here's how FLO makes money.1) Documentaries for Iowa and PSU fans; 2)Rally the Iowa vs Everybody crowd. Clearly this is going in the second bucket.

I can understand sticking up for your guy. Let's be real, you're big time at FLO (I'm sure well deserved), and Nomad was probably your hand-picked successor to your rankings. So I can understand maybe taking a little offense to this. However, we're also entitled to call bullshit when we see it. Putting up a big board where the top stays the same, isn't all that interesting. That order hasn't really changed all that much in the last couple of years.

Here's what gets interest and your new ranker some pub:

1)Piss off HR
2)Talk shit about them on FRL
3)Get the entire non-Iowa wrestling world to have your back

Believe me, I get it. Maybe Iowa isn't the center of the universe that we may like to believe. However, the two ways to make money in the business side of wrestling is to appease Iowa fans, or get everyone to align against us. There's a reason why the two loudest moments at NCAAs are when Iowa wins and when Iowa loses. You don't have to pull this whole "I'm taking my ball and going home" thing. Both you and CP are entertaining to both this board and outside.

 

[Azchief32]

Live in Coralville so can always do it here as well. Here you are moving here. My wife has been a realtor here for 25 years if you are looking for something to buy.

Sounds great...We are looking for a new build or to rent first while something is being built. I am at azchief32@mac.com if your wife wants to drop us her info. Thanks bud...BTW, my first name is Eric if she feels weird about calling me Chief...haha.

 

[OL119]

Yikes, I didn't realize my post would get this many comments. After reading through everyones comments I started to think about something. If Nomad changed the entire philosophy for his Senior Big Board, I would have to think that means there are changes in other spots besides just the #1 and #2. Has anyone gone down the list to see if other guys have dropped/jumped spots due to this new philosophy?

At the risk of overstepping, as I'm pretty new to this board and don't have much credibility banked quite yet, go easy on WCW guys. He is a company man and has to toe the line for Flo. He showed some balls in saying he disagrees. Aside from that, he is a great guy and he "gets it" when it comes to what's best for the sport and doing the right thing. I had the pleasure of having dinner with him along with some of my wrestlers' parents at the hotel restaurant in during the Cheesehead several years ago, and I left that dinner with the utmost respect for him. I would be a little aggravated too if part of my job was doing national rankings. Anyone who has coached knows there are quite a few crazy (that is being VERY nice about it) parents and fans. There will always be someone who isn't happy regardless of who you rank where. I don't envy his situation knowing he probably deals with the craziest of them all on a regular basis.

 

[tigerguy_]

You still here............?

 

[Azchief32]

1)Piss off HR
2)Talk shit about them on FRL
3)Get the entire non-Iowa wrestling world to have your back

Pretty much this right here. Or refer to us as "Some people..." and then act like we're crazy and have tinfoil hats and haha it out the door in a segment for having a different opinion. It's like if the AP pollster would have been like "Alabama? Uh no. I'm going with Clemson because I feel Dabo has a great relationship with Jesus and Saban doesn't seem like he enjoyed beating Ole Miss 78-14.

 

[The Vak]

My point in posting was not to rationalize the change in rankings - which we're back on now.

That's Nomad's to defend. I already said i didn't agree with it.

My reason for posting - for the umpteenth time - is to dispute any accusation of ulterior motive.

you guys are conspiracy theorists. And now i see Vak is in the club.

You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to call something sketchy, Willie. The process used here was flawed, and thus people will look askance. There was no evidentiary reason to make a change. The logic laid out by Lobdell doesn't make any sense outside of his personal opinion. If he had previously ranked Lee higher and all Lee has done since then is win convincingly every match, including at one of the toughest high school tournaments in the country.

If Lobdell had made the change when he first took over the rankings, I'd chalk it up strictly to a difference of opinion. But how can it not be questioned in these circumstances?

 

[Azchief32]

At the risk of overstepping, as I'm pretty new to this board and don't have much credibility banked quite yet, go easy on WCW guys. He is a company man and has to toe the line for Flo. He showed some balls in saying he disagrees. Aside from that, he is a great guy and he "gets it" when it comes to what's best for the sport and doing the right thing.

Daton is a great wrestler and nobody denies that. But it was just the reasoning. Rewatched the 5-5 match. Spencer scored two TDs and was in on DF's legs...a lot. Daton scored on a crotch lift exposure and gets a roll through for another exposure plus a push out. Lee ends the match on Fix's leg with Fix in a plank position to keep from getting scored on. Second match...Lee gets three folkstyle like TDs versus a 4 pt move from Fix and two laces to make it 9-6. In folkstyle...the ref doesn't restart guys after ten seconds.

http://www.flowrestling.org/video/7...fix-ok-vs-spencer-lee-pa-match-1#.WIrC3rGZNE4

http://www.flowrestling.org/video/771014-monday-match-of-the-week-daton-fix-vs-spencer-lee

In the second match, look at the sick defense at the 2:45 mark by Spencer. After the match was done, he hit Daton while he wasn't looking and generally threw a fit. Haha, just kidding. He's not a Hawk yet so...He shook Daton and his coaches hand and shrugged at his corner as if saying it is what it is.

But if I am scouting both of these guys and have to pick one for college wrestling, I am going Lee all the way based on his ability to get in on legs and defend Fix's takedowns....5 to 1 margin and his out of this world positioning. That said, Fix is awesome in freestyle with his creativity and strength.

 

[chuck285]

In this case, than I guess Sorensen goes to #1 and Rutherford drops to #2

 

[The Vak]

Didn't watch the first match video, just the second. I watched the first after it happened, but didn't rewatch it just now. The size difference is stark and clear, and Spencer dominated him in the Folkstyle skills used in the match. Now, Fix is likely to wrestle differently in a Folk match, also, but I still don't see how you can watch those and say Fix is a better collegiate prospect.

 

[chuck285]

A ton of you are great people. I say it on FRL all the time. I love HR and wish every fan base had a population as passionate as y'all. However that doesn't mean i'm gonna sit idle when there's jibberish being passed around. I can't shut up when it comes to those things.

You're probably related to Cowen Cowherd. He only speaks the truth and never tries to say anything controversal just to get ratings? Or maybe even D. Trump? He won the popular vote only it was rigged. He has to be correct also on every statement he makes also...

 

[tigerguy_]

Mark Hall just moved to #1 in the new Flo rankings

 

[JustWrestle133]

Here is the thing about the Fix and Lee comparison and rankings. If you ask every DI coach in the country excluding coaches from PA and OK, bc they would have in State bias, which wrestler would they rather have for their program? 99 out of 100 would choose Lee. This was told to me by a guy who is an assistant college coach now and his logic was that Spencer Lee is a rarity in that he appears to be that ever elusive career 125, who also happens to be the best (or 2nd best to Fix) p4p high school wrestler in the country. Look at what Suriano is doing this year at 125. Does anyone think Suriano would be having this level of success at 133? Also, remember it was a question if Suriano could make 125 and be effective, he will be at 133 soon.

Lets say they both redshirt next year then compete in 2018. Both would be a title favorites at 125, whose biggest competition would be from Lizak, Mueller, Piccininni, or someone that is still in high school right now. 133 is a whole different animal, even after Tomasello graduates, the weight class still would have Gross, Brock, Suriano, Pletcher, Micic, Karam among others.

Inside the Top 50 from DICW:
2015- 125 recruits
#7 Piccininni, Okie St.
#36 Oliver, Indiana
#40 Devin Brown, WVU

2016- 125 recruits
#3 Suriano, PSU (competed at 132)
#15, Mueller, Virginia
#46 Riveria, Northwestern

2015- 133 recruits
#9, Brock, Okie St.
#22 Prince, Navy
#24 Krivus, Virginia
#25 Headlee, NC
#31 Simmons, ISU
#38 Deshazer, Oklahoma
#47 Rodriguez, Ohio State
#49 Tucker, Cornell

2016- 133 recruits
#7 Pletcher, Ohio State
#14 Karam, Lehigh
#22 Yates, Northern Iowa
#40 Duncan, Illinois


You can pick about any year and you have more 133 recruits in the top 50 than 125 recruits and a lot of the time the 125 recruits end up being 133 recruits, like the top 125 recruit from 2014, #12 Jared Cortez or the 2nd 125, #18 Micic.

Guys like Lee are extraordinary recruits, not only because of their talent, but because elite 125's are so hard to find. In the 2013 class there are two 125's in the top 50, #10 Tomasello (now at 133 as a Junior) and #46 Cruz (also 133) and another 5 133's.

 

[Azchief32]

Good point and post JW. While I think Fix could wrestle 125 next year as a true freshman, I don't know where he will be at in two years even for his RS year. Good thing they have a lot of options at that 125-141.

 

[Grip220]

It is obvious after reading the reasoning behind the ranking change that it was done for ratings this is why the long rant about why he did it you can see he was trying to dig deep to justify him self.. It is a futile and ridiculous statement to make that Fix will be a better college wrestler than Lee nothing he said holds any water... So it was obviously a in the heart of the season attempt at some ratings typical media folklore made up by one mans unfounded opinion . Now we can just hope at the end of there careers this clown just maybe could still have a job and will write a big article how he was wrong and how Lee was with out a doubt the real number #1

 

[Jay on HR]

Guys I don't think Willie is lying when he says Flo doesn't do articles, videos, posts to flame the HR. He doesn't. In reality they do it to flame Iowa fans, who happen to be one of the larger fan bases. Wasn't Nomad also a part of the 125U articles and his timeframe lined up in the nice middle ground where Iowa wouldn't be #1?

Willie said it himself. He wishes every fan base had an online community like the HR. Why? Because it's good to have a bunch of fans with a common interest talking about the sport.

It might not be a perfect one, but the HR is a somewhat good representation on the Iowa fan base. We have our few overboard posters, casual fans checking in a couple times a season, longtime fans with deep knowledge, and just overall normal fans. So when something is posted on Flo that incites the HR, you can bet your bottom dollar that there are more fans out there that are thinking the same thing, they just may not run to the HR to say it.

Flo runs their company like a business. They know what will drive traffic to the site, will get their company's name on fans' lips, and so on.

So no you don't do it to get the HR up in arms, but to act like you don't know that this is a pretty good sample size of the entire Iowa fan base is a little disingenuous and honestly you tend to come off condescending but most of us know that's the role you have to play. Your like a VERY (caps to emphasize the importance) toned down version of Skip Bayless. Wrestling needs controversy just like other sports and if Flo can find a reasonable way to create some that has some ground to stand on when backing it up. Win for wrestling, win for Flo.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

Sounds great...We are looking for a new build or to rent first while something is being built. I am at azchief32@mac.com if your wife wants to drop us her info. Thanks bud...BTW, my first name is Eric if she feels weird about calling me Chief...haha.

Wait..............what???

Cheif Eric?

That just sounds perverse...............

 

[Czech Hawk]

I'll squeeze the trigger...

 

[Sandor45]

I'll squeeze the trigger...

Wow

 

[WildTurk]

Haha

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

That Flo ranking is definitely clickbait, and the tactic appears to be working.

 

[Gobblin]

Yet another successful troll job by Flo..Well done gentlemen! Next thing ya know they'll be posting links to articles and it'll be a link Rick Roll.

 

[MVPFAN]

I can't believe this has gone to 3 pages. It is an irrelevant ranking.