Nick Moore

[akaoni]

Nick has obviously had a disappointing season. I'm sure he's more disappointed than anyone. Whether it's injuries, regression, burn out, etc. he hasn't met expectations. That said, I think the amount of criticism and grief he's gotten on this board recently is absolutely appalling. I have no doubt that Nick has worked, sweat, and bled for the team over the past 5 years, and in return he gets a bunch of recliner pilots bad-mouthing him on a message board. Well done gentlemen (and ladies as applicable)!



If Tom thought someone else deserved and/or would perform better at his spot, I have no doubt that wrestler would have been there. It's one thing for a wrestler and coach to expect and accept nothing but success and championships; however, it is quite another thing from fans. We should get behind Nick and thank him for his hard work over the last 5 years. I'll be cheering him on at Nationals and will support him even if he's 0-2. He deserves better from the fan base.

 

[hawkster03]

Put your big girl pants on Mr or Mrs Moore this is a tough sport. Maybe you should stay off the World Wide Web.

 

[lookleft goright]

One can only imagine how difficult it is to survive in the Iowa room for 5 years. Then to have to be lambasted by some people for not living up to expectations seems like a bit much.

Where is the motivation to excel if you are going to be disparaged and insulted by people who do not know you and who want something from you (a national title or a happy feeling for winning a title) and give nothing in return or do nothing to help you to achieve it.

As I have said on other posts, Nick Moore has handled himself with total class his whole 5 years as a Hawk and I would be proud to have him as a son.

 

[MonteHawkeyeSS]

Who let Jake Rudock on the wrestling message boards?
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[CP84 2.0]

Originally posted by lookleft goright:
One can only imagine how difficult it is to survive in the Iowa room for 5 years. Then to have to be lambasted by some people for not living up to expectations seems like a bit much.

Where is the motivation to excel if you are going to be disparaged and insulted by people who do not know you and who want something from you (a national title or a happy feeling for winning a title) and give nothing in return or do nothing to help you to achieve it.

As I have said on other posts, Nick Moore has handled himself with total class his whole 5 years as a Hawk and I would be proud to have him as a son.

This is such BS. The wrestling program or any other sport wouldn't exist if it weren't for the fans and their financial support. This program and the fans expect to win championships every single year. If some people can't handle the heat they need to get out of the kitchen. Iowa wrestling and the fan support doesn't exist to create a bunch of feel good stories and certificates of participation. Nobody is smearing Nick Moore's character. They are criticizing his performance on the mat which hasn't been Iowa quality wrestling. If you want mediocrity and feel good stories from this sport then I suggest you find another program to cheer for.

 

[lookleft goright]

I have seen quite a few posts that smear Nick Moore. Calling him a failure and a waste and a wash out do not seem to be criticizing his technique. When someone gives all they have, others do not need to belittle that person for falling short of their goals.

If people do not think he is giving 100% then that is fine, but I think they are wrong. Maybe the kid is a total loser, but I have seen no evidence to support that statement. We know D1 athletics is a tough business. However, some of us do not feel the need to criticize those who try and fail. Others seem to think it is their purpose in life.

I guess there is a fine line between wanting more and pointing out someone's flaws and faults because he did not achieve it.

Like a great man once said, "let him who is without sin (fault) cast the first stone."

 

[McCulloughd]

Originally posted by hawkster03:
Put your big girl pants on Mr or Mrs Moore this is a tough sport. Maybe you should stay off the World Wide Web.

Shooting your mouth off about Nick Moore isn't enough so now you want to say something really stupid in regards to his parents?

 

[wahlberg]

Originally posted by CP84 2.0:

Originally posted by lookleft goright:
One can only imagine how difficult it is to survive in the Iowa room for 5 years. Then to have to be lambasted by some people for not living up to expectations seems like a bit much.

Where is the motivation to excel if you are going to be disparaged and insulted by people who do not know you and who want something from you (a national title or a happy feeling for winning a title) and give nothing in return or do nothing to help you to achieve it.

As I have said on other posts, Nick Moore has handled himself with total class his whole 5 years as a Hawk and I would be proud to have him as a son.

This is such BS. The wrestling program or any other sport wouldn't exist if it weren't for the fans and their financial support. This program and the fans expect to win championships every single year. If some people can't handle the heat they need to get out of the kitchen. Iowa wrestling and the fan support doesn't exist to create a bunch of feel good stories and certificates of participation. Nobody is smearing Nick Moore's character. They are criticizing his performance on the mat which hasn't been Iowa quality wrestling. If you want mediocrity and feel good stories from this sport then I suggest you find another program to cheer for.

HAHAHAHAHA! You want to think you matter to the program because you buy a ticket?!? Get lost. People waving around and flaunting their checkbooks claiming they are what makes the team a success is not what the world's oldest and greatest sport is all about and certainly isn't an Iowa wrestling mantra. I am all for entertaining the fans and filling seats but don't start to get a big head because of your "financial support." I buy tickets and I know I mean nothing compared to what Nick Moore or anyone else (even 5-year practice room guys who never crack the lineup) mean to this team.

People HAVE been smearing Moore's character on these boards and it is laughable considering the hypocrisy of sitting behind a keyboard throwing stones. I want success from our guys as much as the rest of you but that doesn't mean I'm going to bash guys when they don't achieve it, especially not from behind my keyboard.

 

[CP84 2.0]

Originally posted by wahlberg:

Originally posted by CP84 2.0:

Originally posted by lookleft goright:
One can only imagine how difficult it is to survive in the Iowa room for 5 years. Then to have to be lambasted by some people for not living up to expectations seems like a bit much.

Where is the motivation to excel if you are going to be disparaged and insulted by people who do not know you and who want something from you (a national title or a happy feeling for winning a title) and give nothing in return or do nothing to help you to achieve it.

As I have said on other posts, Nick Moore has handled himself with total class his whole 5 years as a Hawk and I would be proud to have him as a son.

This is such BS. The wrestling program or any other sport wouldn't exist if it weren't for the fans and their financial support. This program and the fans expect to win championships every single year. If some people can't handle the heat they need to get out of the kitchen. Iowa wrestling and the fan support doesn't exist to create a bunch of feel good stories and certificates of participation. Nobody is smearing Nick Moore's character. They are criticizing his performance on the mat which hasn't been Iowa quality wrestling. If you want mediocrity and feel good stories from this sport then I suggest you find another program to cheer for.

HAHAHAHAHA! You want to think you matter to the program because you buy a ticket?!? Get lost. People waving around and flaunting their checkbooks claiming they are what makes the team a success is not what the world's oldest and greatest sport is all about and certainly isn't an Iowa wrestling mantra. I am all for entertaining the fans and filling seats but don't start to get a big head because of your "financial support." I buy tickets and I know I mean nothing compared to what Nick Moore or anyone else (even 5-year practice room guys who never crack the lineup) mean to this team.

People HAVE been smearing Moore's character on these boards and it is laughable considering the hypocrisy of sitting behind a keyboard throwing stones. I want success from our guys as much as the rest of you but that doesn't mean I'm going to bash guys when they don't achieve it, especially not from behind my keyboard.

Yawn... Incredibly lame straw man attempt. First of all I'm not specifically referring to myself. If you don't think the fans matter to the sport or any sport for that matter then you are clueless. This isn't simply about donors writing checks, this is about the collective of fans who buy tickets, watch the sport on TV, or support the program through other means. Iowa doesn't draw the largest average attendance historically in the in nation because they put a mediocre product on the mat. Nice attempt to simplify the issue but your point is moot.

College sports are a business after all. That's why top tier programs fire athletic directors and coaches for losing. The programs expect to win to gain fan support and fans support winning programs to a far greater degree. Look no further than the average attendance at PSU the past few season as their performance expectations increased. Coaches and athletic directors are in the business of winning over the fans.

The people attacking Nick Moore outside of his wrestling are wrong in doing so but the holier than thou crowd arguing we can't discuss or criticize the effort on the mat in any other manner than with rose colored glasses on are just foolish.



This post was edited on 3/9 1:43 PM by CP84 2.0

 

[minnhawkeye]

Originally posted by CP84 2.0:

Originally posted by wahlberg:

Originally posted by CP84 2.0:

Originally posted by lookleft goright:
One can only imagine how difficult it is to survive in the Iowa room for 5 years. Then to have to be lambasted by some people for not living up to expectations seems like a bit much.

Where is the motivation to excel if you are going to be disparaged and insulted by people who do not know you and who want something from you (a national title or a happy feeling for winning a title) and give nothing in return or do nothing to help you to achieve it.

As I have said on other posts, Nick Moore has handled himself with total class his whole 5 years as a Hawk and I would be proud to have him as a son.

This is such BS. The wrestling program or any other sport wouldn't exist if it weren't for the fans and their financial support. This program and the fans expect to win championships every single year. If some people can't handle the heat they need to get out of the kitchen. Iowa wrestling and the fan support doesn't exist to create a bunch of feel good stories and certificates of participation. Nobody is smearing Nick Moore's character. They are criticizing his performance on the mat which hasn't been Iowa quality wrestling. If you want mediocrity and feel good stories from this sport then I suggest you find another program to cheer for.

HAHAHAHAHA! You want to think you matter to the program because you buy a ticket?!? Get lost. People waving around and flaunting their checkbooks claiming they are what makes the team a success is not what the world's oldest and greatest sport is all about and certainly isn't an Iowa wrestling mantra. I am all for entertaining the fans and filling seats but don't start to get a big head because of your "financial support." I buy tickets and I know I mean nothing compared to what Nick Moore or anyone else (even 5-year practice room guys who never crack the lineup) mean to this team.

People HAVE been smearing Moore's character on these boards and it is laughable considering the hypocrisy of sitting behind a keyboard throwing stones. I want success from our guys as much as the rest of you but that doesn't mean I'm going to bash guys when they don't achieve it, especially not from behind my keyboard.

Yawn... Incredibly lame straw man attempt. First of all I'm not specifically referring to myself. If you don't think the fans matter to the sport or any sport for that matter then you are clueless. This isn't simply about donors writing checks, this is about the collective of fans who buy tickets, watch the sport on TV, or support the program through other means. Iowa doesn't draw the largest average attendance historically in the in nation because they put a mediocre product on the mat. Nice attempt to simplify the issue but your point is moot.

The people attacking Nick Moore outside of his wrestling are wrong in doing so but the holier than thou crowd arguing we can't discuss or criticize the effort on the mat in any other manner than with rose colored glasses on are just foolish.

This post was edited on 3/9 1:36 PM by CP84 2.0

All I have to say is "GO TO ST LOUIS" AND SAY THAT FACE TO FACE TO MOORE". End of my statement

 

[Kwoodhawk]

Saw an article in the St. Louis Post Dispatch last week about Missouri's wrestling team and it's success lately and how long it has taken to get to be a good program. Quoted the coach as saying something to the effect of him being a fund raiser all the time. Stated the team raised over $200,00 in revenue, but spent north of a Million plus.

So not sure all those fans buying tickets have the clout they think with their dollars.

 

[el flaco]

Nick does not deserve fans bashing his performance and character at all. Obviously hes has had some ups and downs in his career but its definitely uncalled for to have fans bashing him on the message boards. I would like to see some of you idiots wrestle for Iowa and of course you can't so your sitting behind a computer screen bashing one of our own wrestlers. Get a life. I come on these message boards to get information on upcoming events, broadcasting, listings, and recruiting and never really reply but I hate seeing morons comment badly about our own wrestlers.

 

[CP84 2.0]

Originally posted by Kwoodhawk:

Saw an article in the St. Louis Post Dispatch last week about Missouri's wrestling team and it's success lately and how long it has taken to get to be a good program. Quoted the coach as saying something to the effect of him being a fund raiser all the time. Stated the team raised over $200,00 in revenue, but spent north of a Million plus.

So not sure all those fans buying tickets have the clout they think with their dollars.

Once again the issue is being simplified. This isn't simply about the checks coming in from donors. Premier recruits go to Iowa rather than a high school like wrestling environment (e.g. Maryland) for several reasons with one of those being the atmosphere. Missouri has built a great team this year and the revenue should follow as winning brings legions of new fan support.

I'm not arguing that a ticket purchase is like buying a stock in a company but collectively it is naïve to believe that Iowa would be the same program if the overwhelming majority of wrestlers were mediocre on the mat and the fan expectations of the program were as well. Iowa generally holds high standards from the coaches, athletes and fans and that has been the recipe for good recruiting, good attendance and positive outcomes. Without all of those factors, this program wouldn't be what it is.

 

[winwithdignity]

Most Hawkeye fans are realistic and have their feet on the ground but every fan base have the idiots that are never ever going to be happy no matter what the results. I am with the fan base that anyone that goes through the Hawk program while staying out of trouble I will be backing and cheering for win or lose.

 

[Sidenote]

Nick due to injuries has been reduced to one able shoulder and one knee. His shoulder injury from high school has been reaggravated and rendered useless. He was never fleet of foot and this knee injury has done him no favors. For those asking why he is still in the line-up, it's because he has fended off the challenges for the 165 spot. He is the best option, decided by Tom Brands who I trust to get us the championship.

It makes me laugh that we have the Beatty thread last week and we patted ourselves on the back for being good fans and understanding how hard these athletes work and we feel for these guys, who fight through injuries and work hard and now we are just crushing kids. Questioning whether or not Moore is trying is just asinine.

 

[WildTurk]

It's obvious Nick is hurt this year. And this quite unfortunate. But I think it is fair to say he has had a disappointing career overall. It's ok to feel that way. Especially with his resume/ranking coming out of high school. I hope Nick gets to the NCAA's and scores points, any points, even 1. Go out on a higher note if you will.

I'm sure Nick is a great guy and I thank him for putting in a tough 5 years for the UofI. I wish him well in whatever adventure he does after school.

 

[HoundedHawk]

Originally posted by el flaco:
Nick does not deserve fans bashing his performance and character at all.

His character seems just fine. His performance and achievements as a longtime starter certainly can be bashed.

Wouldn't he bash it? Unless, he does something amazing in St. Louis and becomes an AA I do not see his performance as something to laud. It's something I dread ever happens again to a heralded Iowa HS 4 timer.

 

[hawkster03]

Originally posted by McCulloughd:

Originally posted by hawkster03:
Put your big girl pants on Mr or Mrs Moore this is a tough sport. Maybe you should stay off the World Wide Web.

Shooting your mouth off about Nick Moore isn't enough so now you want to say something really stupid in regards to his parents?

Listen dumbass, I actually haven't made 1 comment about Nick Moore so phuck off. I don't knock kids that participate in this sport as long as they go hard. I don't like the damn cry babies on this site. Maybe you need to stay off the World Wide Web as well, nothing but trouble.

 

[wahlberg]

Originally posted by HoundedHawk:

Originally posted by el flaco:
Nick does not deserve fans bashing his performance and character at all.

His character seems just fine. His performance and achievements as a longtime starter certainly can be bashed.

Wouldn't he bash it? Unless, he does something amazing in St. Louis and becomes an AA I do not see his performance as something to laud. It's something I dread ever happens again to a heralded Iowa HS 4 timer.

I'm sure he's not happy with his collegiate results (especially at nationals to date). And, making a comment like "Nick doesn't seem to have it today" or "I would have thought Nick would have a better career considering what he accomplished in high school" is one thing. But, when people begin to question whether he is even trying is where I start to question a poster's motives and legitimacy as a true fan. I think we should support our guys through thick and thin as fans. Yes, we should crave success. But, we should also keep perspective. We are not the ones putting in all the work after all.


The critic

 

[McCulloughd]

Originally posted by hawkster03:

Originally posted by McCulloughd:

Originally posted by hawkster03:
Put your big girl pants on Mr or Mrs Moore this is a tough sport. Maybe you should stay off the World Wide Web.

Shooting your mouth off about Nick Moore isn't enough so now you want to say something really stupid in regards to his parents?

Listen dumbass, I actually haven't made 1 comment about Nick Moore so phuck off. I don't knock kids that participate in this sport as long as they go hard. I don't like the damn cry babies on this site. Maybe you need to stay off the World Wide Web as well, nothing but trouble.

Oh, you just knock the parents. Time to click on the IGNORE.

 

[Tommy Gavin]

Originally posted by hawkster03:

Originally posted by McCulloughd:

Originally posted by hawkster03:
Put your big girl pants on Mr or Mrs Moore this is a tough sport. Maybe you should stay off the World Wide Web.

Shooting your mouth off about Nick Moore isn't enough so now you want to say something really stupid in regards to his parents?

Listen dumbass, I actually haven't made 1 comment about Nick Moore so phuck off. I don't knock kids that participate in this sport as long as they go hard. I don't like the damn cry babies on this site. Maybe you need to stay off the World Wide Web as well, nothing but trouble.

Looks like another for the ignore list.

I respect and applaud every wrestler who comes through the Iowa program, whether they're a star or not. There's probably close to zero people on this board who could get through a single practice let alone 4 years with the program. Nick Moore has earned our respect and appreciation, not to be bashed because he hasn't lived up to our so-called standards.

There's nothing worse than so-called fans who over-value their importance to the program. You have the right to buy/not buy a ticket and go and cheer or not cheer, that's about it. Being an Iowa "fan" doesn't give you any additional rights because you're a fan of the best college program on the planet.

 

[CP84 2.0]

Originally posted by Tommy Gavin:

Originally posted by hawkster03:

Originally posted by McCulloughd:

Originally posted by hawkster03:
Put your big girl pants on Mr or Mrs Moore this is a tough sport. Maybe you should stay off the World Wide Web.

Shooting your mouth off about Nick Moore isn't enough so now you want to say something really stupid in regards to his parents?

Listen dumbass, I actually haven't made 1 comment about Nick Moore so phuck off. I don't knock kids that participate in this sport as long as they go hard. I don't like the damn cry babies on this site. Maybe you need to stay off the World Wide Web as well, nothing but trouble.

Looks like another for the ignore list.

I respect and applaud every wrestler who comes through the Iowa program, whether they're a star or not. There's probably close to zero people on this board who could get through a single practice let alone 4 years with the program. Nick Moore has earned our respect and appreciation, not to be bashed because he hasn't lived up to our so-called standards.

There's nothing worse than so-called fans who over-value their importance to the program. You have the right to buy/not buy a ticket and go and cheer or not cheer, that's about it. Being an Iowa "fan" doesn't give you any additional rights because you're a fan of the best college program on the planet.

By this standard nobody would have any right to criticize the performance of any team or player professional, collegiate or other.

The problem here is that some of the holier than thou crowd here, you included, seem to conflate the issue of personal attacks outside of the sport with criticizing performance on the mat.

Of course we "have a right to buy a ticket and cheer." We also can objectively or subjectively evaluate their performance and maintain an opinion.

The argument that you need to be a D1 wrestler to discuss criticism on a forum is just stupid. Do you need to play in the NFL as a HOF QB to criticize Peyton Manning's playoff performance? Do you need to coach college football to criticize Kirk Ferentz? The answer to both of the questions should be a resounding no.

Anyone who calls Nick Moore names or attacks him personally deserves any criticism they get, but let's get off the high horse and stop pretending general fans of the sport don't have the right on a message board forum to render any judgment that strays from being a constant homer.



Here's to hoping that Nick Moore turns it on at Nationals and reaches the podium. I think every fan would concur with that.
This post was edited on 3/9 4:09 PM by CP84 2.0

 

[Tommy Gavin]

Originally posted by CP84 2.0:

Originally posted by Tommy Gavin:

Originally posted by hawkster03:

Originally posted by McCulloughd:

Originally posted by hawkster03:
Put your big girl pants on Mr or Mrs Moore this is a tough sport. Maybe you should stay off the World Wide Web.

Shooting your mouth off about Nick Moore isn't enough so now you want to say something really stupid in regards to his parents?

Listen dumbass, I actually haven't made 1 comment about Nick Moore so phuck off. I don't knock kids that participate in this sport as long as they go hard. I don't like the damn cry babies on this site. Maybe you need to stay off the World Wide Web as well, nothing but trouble.

Looks like another for the ignore list.

I respect and applaud every wrestler who comes through the Iowa program, whether they're a star or not. There's probably close to zero people on this board who could get through a single practice let alone 4 years with the program. Nick Moore has earned our respect and appreciation, not to be bashed because he hasn't lived up to our so-called standards.

There's nothing worse than so-called fans who over-value their importance to the program. You have the right to buy/not buy a ticket and go and cheer or not cheer, that's about it. Being an Iowa "fan" doesn't give you any additional rights because you're a fan of the best college program on the planet.

By this standard nobody would have any right to criticize the performance of any team or player professional, collegiate or other.

The problem here is that some of the holier than thou crowd here, you included, seem to conflate the issue of personal attacks outside of the sport with criticizing performance on the mat.

Of course we "have a right to buy a ticket and cheer." We also can objectively or subjectively evaluate their performance and maintain an opinion.

The argument that you need to be a D1 wrestler to discuss criticism on a forum is just stupid. Do you need to play in the NFL as a HOF QB to criticize Peyton Manning's playoff performance? Do you need to coach college football to criticize Kirk Ferentz? The answer to both of the questions should be a resounding no.

Anyone who calls Nick Moore names or attacks him personally deserves any criticism they get, but let's get off the high horse and stop pretending general fans of the sport don't have the right on a message board forum to render any judgment that strays from being a constant homer.



This post was edited on 3/9 4:02 PM by CP84 2.0

It's the crossing of the line and then justifying it with "We at Iowa expect and demand championships" that is out of line. Message boards are for discussion but when you see post after post slamming a kid in the program is when they become a cesspool.

Anonymity and the internet are at times a bad combination.


This post was edited on 3/9 4:09 PM by Tommy Gavin

 

[CP84 2.0]

Originally posted by Tommy Gavin:

Originally posted by CP84 2.0:

Originally posted by Tommy Gavin:

Originally posted by hawkster03:

Originally posted by McCulloughd:

Originally posted by hawkster03:
Put your big girl pants on Mr or Mrs Moore this is a tough sport. Maybe you should stay off the World Wide Web.

Shooting your mouth off about Nick Moore isn't enough so now you want to say something really stupid in regards to his parents?

Listen dumbass, I actually haven't made 1 comment about Nick Moore so phuck off. I don't knock kids that participate in this sport as long as they go hard. I don't like the damn cry babies on this site. Maybe you need to stay off the World Wide Web as well, nothing but trouble.

Looks like another for the ignore list.

I respect and applaud every wrestler who comes through the Iowa program, whether they're a star or not. There's probably close to zero people on this board who could get through a single practice let alone 4 years with the program. Nick Moore has earned our respect and appreciation, not to be bashed because he hasn't lived up to our so-called standards.

There's nothing worse than so-called fans who over-value their importance to the program. You have the right to buy/not buy a ticket and go and cheer or not cheer, that's about it. Being an Iowa "fan" doesn't give you any additional rights because you're a fan of the best college program on the planet.

By this standard nobody would have any right to criticize the performance of any team or player professional, collegiate or other.

The problem here is that some of the holier than thou crowd here, you included, seem to conflate the issue of personal attacks outside of the sport with criticizing performance on the mat.

Of course we "have a right to buy a ticket and cheer." We also can objectively or subjectively evaluate their performance and maintain an opinion.

The argument that you need to be a D1 wrestler to discuss criticism on a forum is just stupid. Do you need to play in the NFL as a HOF QB to criticize Peyton Manning's playoff performance? Do you need to coach college football to criticize Kirk Ferentz? The answer to both of the questions should be a resounding no.

Anyone who calls Nick Moore names or attacks him personally deserves any criticism they get, but let's get off the high horse and stop pretending general fans of the sport don't have the right on a message board forum to render any judgment that strays from being a constant homer.




This post was edited on 3/9 4:02 PM by CP84 2.0

It's the crossing of the line and then justifying it with "We at Iowa expect and demand championships" that is out of line. Message boards are for discussion but when you see post after post slamming a kid in the program is when they become a cesspool.

Anonymity and the internet are at times a bad combination.



This post was edited on 3/9 4:09 PM by Tommy Gavin

The typical HR trend for issues relating to athletic poor performance is as follows:

1. Player starts performing poorly
2. Fans start to criticize performance
3. A small minority of fans take it to the next level and start attacking personally
4. Others condemn all those related to #2 and #3

The same thing happened with McCabe in basketball and Ruddock in football. It's a sure thing on this forum. My issue is that a forum should be open to criticizing performance on the field. I too have no tolerance for name calling or other personal attacks but I disagree with any of those stating that we can't say any comments related to poor performance as a general response to those few who name call. Just because some take it too far doesn't mean that all criticism is unwarranted or out of line.

 

[Tommy Gavin]

Originally posted by CP84 2.0:

Originally posted by Tommy Gavin:

Originally posted by CP84 2.0:

Originally posted by Tommy Gavin:

Originally posted by hawkster03:

Originally posted by McCulloughd:

Originally posted by hawkster03:
Put your big girl pants on Mr or Mrs Moore this is a tough sport. Maybe you should stay off the World Wide Web.

Shooting your mouth off about Nick Moore isn't enough so now you want to say something really stupid in regards to his parents?

Listen dumbass, I actually haven't made 1 comment about Nick Moore so phuck off. I don't knock kids that participate in this sport as long as they go hard. I don't like the damn cry babies on this site. Maybe you need to stay off the World Wide Web as well, nothing but trouble.

Looks like another for the ignore list.

I respect and applaud every wrestler who comes through the Iowa program, whether they're a star or not. There's probably close to zero people on this board who could get through a single practice let alone 4 years with the program. Nick Moore has earned our respect and appreciation, not to be bashed because he hasn't lived up to our so-called standards.

There's nothing worse than so-called fans who over-value their importance to the program. You have the right to buy/not buy a ticket and go and cheer or not cheer, that's about it. Being an Iowa "fan" doesn't give you any additional rights because you're a fan of the best college program on the planet.

By this standard nobody would have any right to criticize the performance of any team or player professional, collegiate or other.

The problem here is that some of the holier than thou crowd here, you included, seem to conflate the issue of personal attacks outside of the sport with criticizing performance on the mat.

Of course we "have a right to buy a ticket and cheer." We also can objectively or subjectively evaluate their performance and maintain an opinion.

The argument that you need to be a D1 wrestler to discuss criticism on a forum is just stupid. Do you need to play in the NFL as a HOF QB to criticize Peyton Manning's playoff performance? Do you need to coach college football to criticize Kirk Ferentz? The answer to both of the questions should be a resounding no.

Anyone who calls Nick Moore names or attacks him personally deserves any criticism they get, but let's get off the high horse and stop pretending general fans of the sport don't have the right on a message board forum to render any judgment that strays from being a constant homer.




This post was edited on 3/9 4:02 PM by CP84 2.0

It's the crossing of the line and then justifying it with "We at Iowa expect and demand championships" that is out of line. Message boards are for discussion but when you see post after post slamming a kid in the program is when they become a cesspool.

Anonymity and the internet are at times a bad combination.



This post was edited on 3/9 4:09 PM by Tommy Gavin

The typical HR trend for issues relating to athletic poor performance is as follows:

1. Player starts performing poorly
2. Fans start to criticize performance
3. A small minority of fans take it to the next level and start attacking personally
4. Others condemn all those related to #2 and #3

The same thing happened with McCabe in basketball and Ruddock in football. It's a sure thing on this forum. My issue is that a forum should be open to criticizing performance on the field. I too have no tolerance for name calling or other personal attacks but I disagree with any of those stating that we can't say any comments related to poor performance as a general response to those few who name call. Just because some take it too far doesn't mean that all criticism is unwarranted or out of line.

As you can see I tagged onto hawkster03's post, it's numskulls like that I am referring to. I don't see many people who condemn a poster who discuss performances like an adult.

 

[CP84 2.0]

Right, and although I disagreed with some of your initial statement I'm not singling you out. I'm talking about a collection of others like the one above that makes simplistic replies to me like this:

"All I have to say is "GO TO ST LOUIS" AND SAY THAT FACE TO FACE TO MOORE". End of my statement"

If you read my initial post that he's responding to you can clearly see I didn't have any personal attacks against Moore's character. I was simply arguing that it's appropriate to discuss his performance as being underwhelming if not poor.

The majority of posters like me that are criticizing his performance seem to get lumped in with the few others that go too far.

Also, those like me criticize Moore's performance because we know he has better ability. Like some have indicated, it may be injury related but the results are just not there. There is a reason Mike Kelly has generally been praised much of this season while Moore has been criticized despite similar results. We expect more from Moore. That's the same concept generally speaking with regard to the program. Iowa is the best program in the country so we have the greatest of expectations.
This post was edited on 3/9 4:33 PM by CP84 2.0

 

[wahlberg]

I agree with much of what you have said in your last two posts (not the one earlier about fans being SO important that they have earned the right to criticize and demand results just by buying tickets and donating money).

I don't understand your last point. It is okay to criticize Moore because we expect him to do better than Kelly but we should be happy with Kelly because "at least he tries hard"?? So, Moore has put in the work to make himself better than Mike Kelly and so he is the one we criticize when they perform the same? Why not praise Moore for putting in the work to be better than Mike Kelly most of the time and be impressed that, even at his worse, he still does just as well as Mike Kelly? Why the two different standards? Seems a little silly to me.

And for the record, I love me some Mike Kelly. My point is dogging one and praising the other for the same result is asinine.

 

[CP84 2.0]

Originally posted by wahlberg:
I agree with much of what you have said in your last two posts (not the one earlier about fans being SO important that they have earned the right to criticize and demand results just by buying tickets and donating money).

I don't understand your last point. It is okay to criticize Moore because we expect him to do better than Kelly but we should be happy with Kelly because "at least he tries hard"?? So, Moore has put in the work to make himself better than Mike Kelly and so he is the one we criticize when they perform the same? Why not praise Moore for putting in the work to be better than Mike Kelly most of the time and be impressed that, even at his worse, he still does just as well as Mike Kelly? Why the two different standards? Seems a little silly to me.

And for the record, I love me some Mike Kelly. My point is dogging one and praising the other for the same result is asinine.

A couple things:

I think a couple of my previous posts were taken a little out of context either through over simplification or else I wasn't clear enough. I'm not arguing that fans gain some type of stock in the program through buying the tickets, etc., that gives them a right to criticize or more credibility to do so. I was just trying to argue that fans are part of the process too and their expectations and interest in the team do have consequences on recruiting and program building. Recruits want to wrestle in a great environment and fans typical come in larger droves to better performing teams. The combination of those entities creates a culture of higher expectations and programs with higher expectations tend to have more passion and criticism for the team. Just look at the Yankees. Their fans booed ARod in the playoffs when he wasn't hitting several years ago despite the fact that he played great in the season to get them there. We aren't any different in that regard.

My comment regarding Kelly/Moore isn't inferring it is the right thing to do it's just a natural tendency all fans do. I bet you are no different. We were disappointed a year ago when DSJ didn't make the finals coming in as a defending champ but we were happy with Burak just getting on the podium. Both athletes have different ability and we just hope they maximize their own.

 

[Hawknado]

Wahlberg, I think it might be that Moore was a highly sought after recruit. Mike Kelly, I don't think as much.

 

[rafferty06]

Also, those like me criticize Moore's performance because we know he has better ability. Like some have indicated, it may be injury related but the results are just not there. There is a reason Mike Kelly has generally been praised much of this season while Moore has been criticized despite similar results. We expect more from Moore. That's the same concept generally speaking with regard to the program. Iowa is the best program in the country so we have the greatest of expectations.

This post was edited on 3/9 4:33 PM by CP84 2.0


For those two or three people who are critics about these young men, then they should also throw Tom Brands under the bus. How can they possibly wrestle these two young men who can't apparently wrestle up to our fans expectations. Why is Tom wrestling these two when this fan base must know there are two better young men on the wrestling team and not wrestling? We need new coaches?? Smile

 

[minnhawkeye]

Well you where putting him down for his effort and poor performance without even knowing why.
If I recall someone posted after the Minn dual when he pinned Kinglsey that they noticed he had hurt and had trouble holding up his arm So we know hear he has a shoulder problem and knee problem .
Most of us knew when McD was hurt just the way he was wrestling and it came out after the year was over.
Sure Nick had a bad showing at NCAA last year that happens, but he was really coming on last year before nationals.
Sorry so long but just don't like bashing a kid when he is giving his all and being injured also.
Sorry if I said what i did say did not mean to piss you off.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

Originally posted by minnhawkeye:

Well you where putting him down for his effort and poor performance without even knowing why.
If I recall someone posted after the Minn dual when he pinned Kinglsey that they noticed he had hurt and had trouble holding up his arm So we know hear he has a shoulder problem and knee problem .
Most of us knew when McD was hurt just the way he was wrestling and it came out after the year was over.
Sure Nick had a bad showing at NCAA last year that happens, but he was really coming on last year before nationals.
Sorry so long but just don't like bashing a kid when he is giving his all and being injured also.
Sorry if I said what i did say did not mean to piss you off.

It's OK minhawkeye...you didn't piss me off with what you said .....and the heck with the rest of them anyways........

Remember how much progress Nick made last year during the season. He was fantastic. Fabulous....

This year he hasn't looked the same and lots of complaints and comments. Now we find out what some have suspected. Injuries. So sad for him. Having to suffer and struggle thru his last year this way. God bless him for sticking it out and trying. Hope he can pull it all together for 3 days down here in St. Louis.

 

[minnhawkeye]

Thank you kwoodhawk you said what I was trying to a lot faster and shorter... ....

 

[wahlberg]

Originally posted by Hawknado:
Wahlberg, I think it might be that Moore was a highly sought after recruit. Mike Kelly, I don't think as much.

I understand that that is the thought process for those blasting Moore and holding the double standard when comparing him to Mike Kelly. However, I feel it is faulty logic.

How do you think Moore became better than Kelly and garnered a more highly sought after recruiting status in the first place? By chance? No, he had to work extremely hard to do that. What does he get in return from some fans on this board? A double standard that works against him?

Somehow, folks imagine that Kelly wants it more or works harder for it when they achieve the same thing and that is just not reality. Both want it. Both work their a** off. Both deserve that respect from so-called hawkeye fans, not just Kelly.

And remember, Kelly beat Moore their redshirt year so the thought that Kelly has progressed more than Moore since then doesn't entirely hold either, especially when you factor in Moore's current injuries.

 

[evashevsky58]

I don't think the comments on here are any worse than what mark Ironside says about nick on the radio. I think most people on here, myself included, are just trying to figure out why he has regressed. We want him to succeed! Its just puzzling to see a wrestler of his caliber and expectation, in his senior season, struggle against lesser opponents and lose to people he has previously dominated. Its a mystery hawk fans want to solve, for the betterment of nick Moore and the team.

Originally posted by akaoni:

Nick has obviously had a disappointing season. I'm sure he's more disappointed than anyone. Whether it's injuries, regression, burn out, etc. he hasn't met expectations. That said, I think the amount of criticism and grief he's gotten on this board recently is absolutely appalling. I have no doubt that Nick has worked, sweat, and bled for the team over the past 5 years, and in return he gets a bunch of recliner pilots bad-mouthing him on a message board. Well done gentlemen (and ladies as applicable)!



If Tom thought someone else deserved and/or would perform better at his spot, I have no doubt that wrestler would have been there. It's one thing for a wrestler and coach to expect and accept nothing but success and championships; however, it is quite another thing from fans. We should get behind Nick and thank him for his hard work over the last 5 years. I'll be cheering him on at Nationals and will support him even if he's 0-2. He deserves better from the fan base.

 

[Azchief32]

Originally posted by wahlberg:

Originally posted by Hawknado:
Wahlberg, I think it might be that Moore was a highly sought after recruit. Mike Kelly, I don't think as much.

I understand that that is the thought process for those blasting Moore and holding the double standard when comparing him to Mike Kelly. However, I feel it is faulty logic.

How do you think Moore became better than Kelly and garnered a more highly sought after recruiting status in the first place? By chance? No, he had to work extremely hard to do that. What does he get in return from some fans on this board? A double standard that works against him?

Somehow, folks imagine that Kelly wants it more or works harder for it when they achieve the same thing and that is just not reality. Both want it. Both work their a** off. Both deserve that respect from so-called hawkeye fans, not just Kelly.

And remember, Kelly beat Moore their redshirt year so the thought that Kelly has progressed more than Moore since then doesn't entirely hold either, especially when you factor in Moore's current injuries.

Wahlberg...One can see that Kelly gives it his all; the guy never stops. Yes he makes stupid mistakes sometimes and his skill is limited but he is an all out guy. Nick is a guy who beat the Caldwell last year but then loses first round in the NCAAs as a five seed. He craps out and loses to a guy that was 14-17 and loses to a 16-14 guy in the B1G. When it doesn't count, then pins Wanzek and Hammond (revenge from the dual loss). While he might be injured (who isn't dinged up at this time of year), there just seems to be a between the ears problem. His posture, lack of intensity...just seems that he is ready to be done.

Being critical of a wrestler does not mean one is casting dispersions on his name or wishing him harm. It's not personal. We have been critical of Jeva all year...guess what? We are right because Jeva showed up to wrestle this weekend. That match vs Dardanes is what he is capable of.

 

[Sidenote]

Was McDonough mentally broken last year? Or was it because he was incapable of using his shoulder?

It's not that he is just "dinged up" it's that he is wrestling with one leg and one arm.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

Originally posted by Sidenote:
Was McDonough mentally broken last year? Or was it because he was incapable of using his shoulder?

It's not that he is just "dinged up" it's that he is wrestling with one leg and one arm.

Thanks Sidenote............guess he needs our prayers more than our complaints.....

 

[wahlberg]

Originally posted by Azchief32:

Originally posted by wahlberg:

Originally posted by Hawknado:
Wahlberg, I think it might be that Moore was a highly sought after recruit. Mike Kelly, I don't think as much.

I understand that that is the thought process for those blasting Moore and holding the double standard when comparing him to Mike Kelly. However, I feel it is faulty logic.

How do you think Moore became better than Kelly and garnered a more highly sought after recruiting status in the first place? By chance? No, he had to work extremely hard to do that. What does he get in return from some fans on this board? A double standard that works against him?

Somehow, folks imagine that Kelly wants it more or works harder for it when they achieve the same thing and that is just not reality. Both want it. Both work their a** off. Both deserve that respect from so-called hawkeye fans, not just Kelly.

And remember, Kelly beat Moore their redshirt year so the thought that Kelly has progressed more than Moore since then doesn't entirely hold either, especially when you factor in Moore's current injuries.

Wahlberg...One can see that Kelly gives it his all; the guy never stops. Yes he makes stupid mistakes sometimes and his skill is limited but he is an all out guy. Nick is a guy who beat the Caldwell last year but then loses first round in the NCAAs as a five seed. He craps out and loses to a guy that was 14-17 and loses to a 16-14 guy in the B1G. When it doesn't count, then pins Wanzek and Hammond (revenge from the dual loss). While he might be injured (who isn't dinged up at this time of year), there just seems to be a between the ears problem. His posture, lack of intensity...just seems that he is ready to be done.

Being critical of a wrestler does not mean one is casting dispersions on his name or wishing him harm. It's not personal. We have been critical of Jeva all year...guess what? We are right because Jeva showed up to wrestle this weekend. That match vs Dardanes is what he is capable of.

Again, by stating that "one can see that Kelly gives it his all..." you imply that Moore does not and I am stating that that is asinine and IS, in fact, "casting dispersions on his name." Now, a between the ears problem MAY exist, but that would not mean that he is not giving it his all. He may lack confidence due to feeling he is not as effective with his injuries, for example.

 

[texas twister]

Originally posted by WildTurk:
It's obvious Nick is hurt this year. And this quite unfortunate. But I think it is fair to say he has had a disappointing career overall. It's ok to feel that way. Especially with his resume/ranking coming out of high school. I hope Nick gets to the NCAA's and scores points, any points, even 1. Go out on a higher note if you will.

I'm sure Nick is a great guy and I thank him for putting in a tough 5 years for the UofI. I wish him well in whatever adventure he does after school.

+1