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Non-Indicting Reasons Why US Has More Covid Than Its Share of World Population

markfromj

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Sep 1, 2004
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Please, no “Trump sucks”. No “Americans are fat and lazy and stupid”. No “plandemic”. Maybe all true, but...

I want to know if there are things about the US that you see that, even with excellent leadership and a compliant population, that we were bound to suffer disproportionately.

I‘ll start: How about our affluence allowing too much travel and mingling?
 
Please, no “Trump sucks”. No “Americans are fat and lazy and stupid”. No “plandemic”. Maybe all true, but...

I want to know if there are things about the US that you see that, even with excellent leadership and a compliant population, that we were bound to suffer disproportionately.

I‘ll start: How about our affluence allowing too much travel and mingling?
Well if looking for other answers than not sticking with it until numbers were at CDC guidelines I would say two giant factors:

1) We never quarantined states or regions or cities because that is not what we do. Our counterparts in Europe which are all more like states in size closed their borders and also isolated some regions. China quarantined regions.

2) High per capita obesity
 
Please, no “Trump sucks”. No “Americans are fat and lazy and stupid”. No “plandemic”. Maybe all true, but...

I want to know if there are things about the US that you see that, even with excellent leadership and a compliant population, that we were bound to suffer disproportionately.

I‘ll start: How about our affluence allowing too much travel and mingling?
Stupid stubborn people
 
Larger populations, China is full of crap, we have more rights and entitlements, riots, more testing, college in session with more testing for students, election year
 
China has almost no cases


They knew about it years ago ;)

You honestly believe this? You think it would be hard for a communist nation of over 1 billion people with state run media to censor the deaths of 500,000 people or the true number of cases they've had?

As to the original question...there are a variety of reasons.

1). Our freedoms within this country to travel (guaranteed by the government, necessitated by the economy, and allowed by our affluent society) allowed this to spread. Also, our allowance of foreign travel into this country is a major factor.

2) Our horrible health. American's have one of the greatest health care systems in the world when it comes to treatment, but we are horrendous when it comes to preventative care. We are at the top in obesity, diabetes, and other co-morbidities.

3) Politics...I'm a Pub, but it isn't hard to see how politics has completely screwed with the collective minds in the US
 
You honestly believe this? You think it would be hard for a communist nation of over 1 billion people with state run media to censor the deaths of 500,000 people or the true number of cases they've had?

As to the original question...there are a variety of reasons.

1). Our freedoms within this country to travel (guaranteed by the government, necessitated by the economy, and allowed by our affluent society) allowed this to spread. Also, our allowance of foreign travel into this country is a major factor.

2) Our horrible health. American's have one of the greatest health care systems in the world when it comes to treatment, but we are horrendous when it comes to preventative care. We are at the top in obesity, diabetes, and other co-morbidities.

3) Politics...I'm a Pub, but it isn't hard to see how politics has completely screwed with the collective minds in the US
Chinese weapon bud
 
Disinformation that started at the top (not just about Covid either). The lying has led most to not trust trump and his lemmings to believe every word.
any other president or non narcissist would have controlled this like every other developed country.
South Korea is densely packed with a crap ton of smokers had virtually no issues compared to us.
 
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Disinformation that started at the top (not just about Covid either). The lying has led most to not trust trump and his lemmings to believe every word.
any other president or non narcissist would have controlled this like every other developed country.
South Korea is densely packed with a crap ton of smokers had virtually no issues compared to us.

Horrible example with South Korea. Yeah, it's a heavily populated area, but it's surrounded by water on 3 sides and a militarized border on the North. Pretty easy to control who comes in and out.
 
The sheer size of America, combined with our freedom from government control and sense of self worth above all else.
Plus a lack of consistent science and conflicting messaging throughout.
 
We test a lot of people who don't have symptoms and they test positive. We count people positive who are supposed to take tests and don't. E.g. someone shows up at a testing site because they're told to go test, and then after registering they learn the wait is very long, and they leave rather than waiting. They're positive.

Aid is provided to businesses for Covid deaths, so if nursing homes have deaths and they can count it as Covid somehow someway, they do.

We test more, our definition of positive is loose, and we incentivize positives.

All of the above are contributing factors. Btw I'm not against all of the above, it's just that we should understand this when looking at the numbers and we need to disregard the fear porn and just be sensible.
 
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LOL. We've had such a poor 2nd world type of response because we never had effective national leadership organizing and implementing a national plan. All the countries we would consider to be peer countries have done much better. That's it, end of story.

Can just imagine this type of thread after President Trump lost WW2. We were too affluent. The Japanese and that Hitler guy were right, we really were soft and undisciplined. Leadership at the national level was fine it was just that our "national character" did us in. JFC.
 
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I think we often forget the USA has 330m+ population. In a free country, how do you get 100 people (let alone 330mm) to all move in the same direction without force and coercion like China does? It is impossible.

we have a fear based mentality in the country where we fear everything
 
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We test a lot of people who don't have symptoms and they test positive. We count people positive who are supposed to take tests and don't. E.g. someone shows up at a testing site because they're told to go test, and then after registering they learn the wait is very long, and they leave rather than waiting. They're positive.

Aid is provided to businesses for Covid deaths, so if nursing homes have deaths and they can count it as Covid somehow someway, they do.

We test more, our definition of positive is loose, and we incentivize positives.

All of the above are contributing factors. Btw I'm not against all of the above, it's just that we should understand this when looking at the numbers and we need to disregard the fear porn and just be sensible.

Good lord-you dumb SOBs who have been spouting off the "hospitals and nursing homes get dirty guberment money for COVID deaths" conspiracy really think the Trump administration AND the Governors of places like AZ, TX, GA and FL would for a millisecond let that happen so their approval ratings could plunge? Does. That. Make. Any. Sense?
 
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Good lord-you dumb SOBs who have been spouting off the "hospitals and nursing homes get dirty guberment money for COVID deaths" conspiracy really think the Trump administration AND the Governors of places like AZ, TX, GA and FL would for a millisecond let that happen so their approval ratings could plunge? Does. That. Make. Any. Sense?
I'd explain more but with your attitude, you aren't worth it.
 
Disinformation that started at the top (not just about Covid either). The lying has led most to not trust trump and his lemmings to believe every word.
any other president or non narcissist would have controlled this like every other developed country
South Korea is densely packed with a crap ton of smokers had virtually no issuescompared to us.
The MAGA crowd is a problem, however the IDGAF crowd is a bigger problem, and they are young and mostly Democratic. I am a Republican, wear a mask and live in Iowa. I also carry wipes and gel in my car. Pick up just about every order at the grocery store, and only go into stores that have mandatory masks whenever possible. When I see people not wearing masks, it is at Kwik Star or Caseys. Iowa does not have a State wide mandatory mask law. However, DSM, CR, Ames, IC, Waterloo, Cedar Falls do. Those at risk who are smart just avoid bars and restaurants. However, the economy of Iowa will fare much better long term than those of, say Michigan, Illinois or NY, where they have cracked down very hard on business freedoms. A large reason for the increase in Iowa numbers is that fact that the pandemic was sweeping across the country like a wave from two directions and converged here. Also the high number of meat processing jobs that we have skews the numbers as that environment is ideal for Covid transmission (Iowa has the highest % of meat processing jobs per thousand people in the country). All in all Iowa is doing it right.
 
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T-cell immunity. NOTHING else matters.

International travel is 75% regional and the pacific west/Asian/Oceania regions all had more immunity than us. That's why they did better. Full stop.
 
There is political motivation to lie on both sides with the presidential election so we get blame instead of responsibility.

We are also testing much much more and due to the blame game have lost any sense of reason. Like anyone really believe India doesn't have more cases and deaths than anyone? There is zero chance they have this thing under control....but they also don't care. Especially about the poor.

China is a liar. They would lie about being named China just because it is their habit to lie. Believe nothing they say about anything especially if it has the ability to embarrass them in some manner. They are lying about the wuhan flu...I mean covid. Funny how quickly we changed the label isn't it? I wonder why.....you know why too

Europe is also not testing although I don't believe they are being dishonest. They are also largely homogeneous as a population and as we are starting to see aren't really as good at this as we initially thought. Sweden seems to be doing well both in terms of living life and managing the disease. Is anyone truly surprised that Germany is efficient? Really? They are having huge antimask protests though.

South America and Central America are the same as India. No way they have it under control but who would be able to tell?

Same with much of Africa. You think they are testing and tracking anything? Some places still burn women as witches...for real.

The danger from covid is real but so is the media hype. More than one thing can be true or false all at the same time
 
Horrible example with South Korea. Yeah, it's a heavily populated area, but it's surrounded by water on 3 sides and a militarized border on the North. Pretty easy to control who comes in and out.
Have you seen those two big oceans on each coast?. Canada is doing fantastic on our north. No one flew from China and crossed the boarder from Mexico. Actually, S Korea is a mini version of what we would have been with leadership and compliant citizens. They do business in Wuhan so the virus was brought in before it was identified. Their first case was same day as ours.
 
You honestly believe this? You think it would be hard for a communist nation of over 1 billion people with state run media to censor the deaths of 500,000 people or the true number of cases they've had?

As to the original question...there are a variety of reasons.

1). Our freedoms within this country to travel (guaranteed by the government, necessitated by the economy, and allowed by our affluent society) allowed this to spread. Also, our allowance of foreign travel into this country is a major factor.

2) Our horrible health. American's have one of the greatest health care systems in the world when it comes to treatment, but we are horrendous when it comes to preventative care. We are at the top in obesity, diabetes, and other co-morbidities.

3) Politics...I'm a Pub, but it isn't hard to see how politics has completely screwed with the collective minds in the US
I pretty much agree with this.
 
We test a lot of people who don't have symptoms and they test positive. We count people positive who are supposed to take tests and don't. E.g. someone shows up at a testing site because they're told to go test, and then after registering they learn the wait is very long, and they leave rather than waiting. They're positive.

Aid is provided to businesses for Covid deaths, so if nursing homes have deaths and they can count it as Covid somehow someway, they do.

We test more, our definition of positive is loose, and we incentivize positives.

All of the above are contributing factors. Btw I'm not against all of the above, it's just that we should understand this when looking at the numbers and we need to disregard the fear porn and just be sensible.
“We test more, our definition of positive is loose, and we incentivize positives.”

Precisely this.
 
I read the positive threshold is lower in United States.

I think obesity is a big factor. would be curious world wide how many people that died and were not extremely old were obese. United States likely leads the world in obesity so it is logical they would be high for deaths.
 
Please, no “Trump sucks”. No “Americans are fat and lazy and stupid”. No “plandemic”. Maybe all true, but...

I want to know if there are things about the US that you see that, even with excellent leadership and a compliant population, that we were bound to suffer disproportionately.

I‘ll start: How about our affluence allowing too much travel and mingling?
That's it, plain and simple. We have more discretionary income it would seem, and we've got a spending habit. Our service sector of the economy says Thank You for that, too. But many of us are finally changing our habits, staying home. Ordering food and picking it up curbside or having it delivered rather than sitting in a restaurant and maybe splitting some chocolate lava dessert and having another beer, thus growing the tab and providing a good tip to our server. I hope that sector comes back for them.
 
I'll leave out who should have implemented, since the OP wants it non-indicting.

Full scale testing and tracing
Nationwide mask mandate
Short term travel restrictions
Localized shut downs (in areas where there is a massive outbreak, ie NYC in March/April)

Do those things and we are watching football inside Kinnick this fall, the # of deaths is 10% (or less) of what we have now and there is little fear of massive outbreaks caused by schools opening.
 
I'll leave out who should have implemented, since the OP wants it non-indicting.

Full scale testing and tracing
Nationwide mask mandate
Short term travel restrictions
Localized shut downs (in areas where there is a massive outbreak, ie NYC in March/April)

Do those things and we are watching football inside Kinnick this fall, the # of deaths is 10% (or less) of what we have now and there is little fear of massive outbreaks caused by schools opening.
But the spike on campus at Iowa is from COVID kids gathering en masses with no masks, right? Non-indicting. I saw much the same at FSU this weekend. I've never seen so much ignorance and youthful belief in immortality ever.
 
There is plenty of criticism that should be leveled at our politicians, but the following factors have not helped:
  • We are less healthy and more obese than most other first World nations
  • We lack a social safety net so many underinsured people don’t seek early diagnosis or treatment when ill. In other countries there is better access to medical care for all segments of society.
  • Historically our standard cultural response is to “tough it out” when we get sick. So people went to work, got groceries, took their kids to practices, and generally spread virus. In my experience traveling the world you don’t see as much of this in other places.
It is precisely because of factors like this that our federal response should have been more coherent, coordinated and consistent.
 
But the spike on campus at Iowa is from COVID kids gathering en masses with no masks, right? Non-indicting. I saw much the same at FSU this weekend. I've never seen so much ignorance and youthful belief in immortality ever.

And yet none of them will be in the hospital and none of them will die.
 
Please, no “Trump sucks”. No “Americans are fat and lazy and stupid”. No “plandemic”. Maybe all true, but...

I want to know if there are things about the US that you see that, even with excellent leadership and a compliant population, that we were bound to suffer disproportionately.

I‘ll start: How about our affluence allowing too much travel and mingling?
60% of positive tests are non-symptomatic, meaning many of them would never have known they had it except they got caught up in some targeted testing, like college students put together at one time and tested. It spread everywhere, people got sick everywhere.
 
Have you seen those two big oceans on each coast?. Canada is doing fantastic on our north. No one flew from China and crossed the boarder from Mexico. Actually, S Korea is a mini version of what we would have been with leadership and compliant citizens. They do business in Wuhan so the virus was brought in before it was identified. Their first case was same day as ours.
Have you ever been to Canada? I mean ever really driven it. Outside of a few cities, it is sparsely populated.
 
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And yet none of them will be in the hospital and none of them will die.
You're right, but if their Mom and Dad come for a visit and catch it, one of them may die. These kids are just so self-absorbed. It truly worries me.
 
There is plenty of criticism that should be leveled at our politicians, but the following factors have not helped:
  • We are less healthy and more obese than most other first World nations
  • We lack a social safety net so many underinsured people don’t seek early diagnosis or treatment when ill. In other countries there is better access to medical care for all segments of society.
  • Historically our standard cultural response is to “tough it out” when we get sick. So people went to work, got groceries, took their kids to practices, and generally spread virus. In my experience traveling the world you don’t see as much of this in other places.
It is precisely because of factors like this that our federal response should have been more coherent, coordinated and consistent.
How, specifically?
 
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