Nothing About Bibi Spying on White House's Talks w/Iran?

[IMCC965]

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by jthawk:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by jthawk:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by 22*43*51:

Originally posted by jthawk:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Now this has to be rhetorical bluster right?  No one actually thinks Obama is worse than W do they? ÂÂ

Millions do, as many polls suggest. The last one I saw was a Quinnipiac poll from last summer which had Obama as the worst President ever according to the respondents.


Posted from Rivals Mobile

Here's the Quinnipac link you are referring to...

Objectively thats just stupid, but that particular poll goes back just to FDR. I'd be hard pressed to conceive of any grading metric by which BHO would come out worse than W, let alone Andrew Johnson. Heck, outside of local pride, no Iowan should be grading Hoover over Obama. People need a little perspective and longer memories. Obama will most certainty grade out as a middling President more on par with the first Bush than the second who was legitimately one of the worst.Â

This is just one poll, there are others that I have seen which are consistent in rating Obama below Bush.  I agree with you that people have short memories, but you are subordinating the opinions of many, many people to your own, and calling them stupid.  It must be a great comfort to know that you are always right

Its really more of a cross to bear, I'm constantly needing to correct fool opinions. If it makes you feel any better, I'm a pretty horrible speller. But you might note I invited you to provide any sort of objective grading criteria where BHO didn't outperform W. I couldn't think of one either. On most every front the nation is better off today than it was under W. Thats just fact.Â

Actually you did not invite me to do so, however, I did provide several facts in another thread awhile back, which included GDP growth under Bush and Obama, unemployment numbers, opinion polls on how the U.S. Is viewed around the world, etc. I am not a Bush apologist. He was not a good president by any means, but neither is Obama

Oh and before you pull out the "Bush created the financial crisis" canard, do some objective research. A lot of people in both parties have their fingerprints all over that one over the course of a number of years, including the Bush administration.

BTW, going back to my response to your original assertion, which was "no one actually thinks Obama is worse than W", you are/were demonstrably wrong. Many people, according to polls believe this, sorry


Posted from Rivals Mobile

This post was edited on 3/25 11:25 AM by jthawk

I'm not arguing that BHO is a good President, I wrote above I thought he was a middling one. I'm arguing that anyone who thinks he is the worst President ever is stupid. I'm not sure that we even disagree much on that point although I suspect you might choose more polite pejorative.

Obama is the worst president ever. There, I said it.

 

[aflachawk]

NM
This post was edited on 3/25 12:59 PM by aflachawk

 

[naturalmwa]

Originally posted by IMCC965:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

I'm not arguing that BHO is a good President, I wrote above I thought he was a middling one. I'm arguing that anyone who thinks he is the worst President ever is stupid. I'm not sure that we even disagree much on that point although I suspect you might choose more polite pejorative.

Obama is the worst president ever. There, I said it.

 

[aflachawk]

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by gonegolfing:

Bibi is a better president in Israel for the United States than the zero that currently resides in the White House. You don't go hands-down into history as the worst President in history with two years left without making a mockery of what was once a prestigious position to hold. Obama has done that and worse. Republicans will continue to win the vote of those that respect this country and appreciate what great things it was built upon. Meanwhile, democrats will continue to tear down any lasting fabric holding together what was once the greatest country on this planet.

Now this has to be rhetorical bluster right? No one actually thinks Obama is worse than W do they?

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY worse and its not even close. The knuckle draggers on here who hold on to every false rhetorical utterance out of this administrations mouths are the kool aid drinkers not cons

 

[wildcatdad]

Originally posted by aflachawk:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by gonegolfing:

Bibi is a better president in Israel for the United States than the zero that currently resides in the White House. You don't go hands-down into history as the worst President in history with two years left without making a mockery of what was once a prestigious position to hold. Obama has done that and worse. Republicans will continue to win the vote of those that respect this country and appreciate what great things it was built upon. Meanwhile, democrats will continue to tear down any lasting fabric holding together what was once the greatest country on this planet.

Now this has to be rhetorical bluster right? No one actually thinks Obama is worse than W do they?

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY worse and its not even close. The knuckle draggers on here who hold on to every false rhetorical utterance out of this administrations mouths are the kool aid drinkers not cons


Sure thing.

 

[Lone Clone]

Originally posted by IMCC965:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by jthawk:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by jthawk:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by 22*43*51:

Originally posted by jthawk:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Now this has to be rhetorical bluster right?  No one actually thinks Obama is worse than W do they? ÂÂ

Millions do, as many polls suggest. The last one I saw was a Quinnipiac poll from last summer which had Obama as the worst President ever according to the respondents.


Posted from Rivals Mobile

Here's the Quinnipac link you are referring to...

Objectively thats just stupid, but that particular poll goes back just to FDR. I'd be hard pressed to conceive of any grading metric by which BHO would come out worse than W, let alone Andrew Johnson. Heck, outside of local pride, no Iowan should be grading Hoover over Obama. People need a little perspective and longer memories. Obama will most certainty grade out as a middling President more on par with the first Bush than the second who was legitimately one of the worst.Â

This is just one poll, there are others that I have seen which are consistent in rating Obama below Bush.  I agree with you that people have short memories, but you are subordinating the opinions of many, many people to your own, and calling them stupid.  It must be a great comfort to know that you are always right

Its really more of a cross to bear, I'm constantly needing to correct fool opinions. If it makes you feel any better, I'm a pretty horrible speller. But you might note I invited you to provide any sort of objective grading criteria where BHO didn't outperform W. I couldn't think of one either. On most every front the nation is better off today than it was under W. Thats just fact.Â

Actually you did not invite me to do so, however, I did provide several facts in another thread awhile back, which included GDP growth under Bush and Obama, unemployment numbers, opinion polls on how the U.S. Is viewed around the world, etc. I am not a Bush apologist. He was not a good president by any means, but neither is Obama

Oh and before you pull out the "Bush created the financial crisis" canard, do some objective research. A lot of people in both parties have their fingerprints all over that one over the course of a number of years, including the Bush administration.

BTW, going back to my response to your original assertion, which was "no one actually thinks Obama is worse than W", you are/were demonstrably wrong. Many people, according to polls believe this, sorry


Posted from Rivals Mobile

This post was edited on 3/25 11:25 AM by jthawk

I'm not arguing that BHO is a good President, I wrote above I thought he was a middling one. I'm arguing that anyone who thinks he is the worst President ever is stupid. I'm not sure that we even disagree much on that point although I suspect you might choose more polite pejorative.

Obama is the worst president ever. There, I said it.

I don't know if he's the worst. He'd have to go some to top Woodrow Wilson.

But for long-term damage to the nation, I think history may show that Obama was indeed the worst. Domestic, foreign, doesn't matter.

 

[naturalmwa]

Lots of day drinkers in this thread. When you all sober up, try to make the case that we aren't better off under BHO than W.

 

[Hawk in SEC Country]

Originally posted by FlickShagwell:
to lobby congress to sink our deal? Are your heads really that far up Bibi's ass that you won't call out Israel for sabotaging America's diplomacy?

Wow.

From the Wall Street Journal, nonetheless!

Abridged version from Gawker.

We spy on our allies too.

Have you forgotten about spying on Germany? Why won' you call out Obama for sabotaging our trust with one of our best allies? Is your head really that far up his ass? Why do you support our spying on our allies, but when the tables get turned you get pissed?

The deal with Iran.....why is the Administration moving to make the details classified....you know being transparent and all.

 

[86Hawkeye]

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by 86Hawkeye:
I find it interesting that Israel is alleged to have spied on the Iran talks in order to inform the US Congress about what it's own POTUS was doing.

I would hope that even if Israel did do this, any information coming from them would be old news to Congress.

Of course, this assumes that the POTUS keeps the Congress informed.

Maybe the outrage on the left is because Israel told our Congress things that our POTUS would not.

Really? You think any POTUS should trust a congressperson like this with state secrets? Somehow I don't believe you.

There are appropriate committees and members in Congress that should be up-to-date with the most secret aspects of American foreign policy and negotiations with other countries.

 

[naturalmwa]

Originally posted by 86Hawkeye:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by 86Hawkeye:
I find it interesting that Israel is alleged to have spied on the Iran talks in order to inform the US Congress about what it's own POTUS was doing.

I would hope that even if Israel did do this, any information coming from them would be old news to Congress.

Of course, this assumes that the POTUS keeps the Congress informed.

Maybe the outrage on the left is because Israel told our Congress things that our POTUS would not.

Really? You think any POTUS should trust a congressperson like this with state secrets? Somehow I don't believe you.

There are appropriate committees and members in Congress that should be up-to-date with the most secret aspects of American foreign policy and negotiations with other countries.

I sure hope when Israel tried to bribe and blackmail our representatives, they checked their clearance level first.

 

[86Hawkeye]

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by 86Hawkeye:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by 86Hawkeye:
I find it interesting that Israel is alleged to have spied on the Iran talks in order to inform the US Congress about what it's own POTUS was doing.

I would hope that even if Israel did do this, any information coming from them would be old news to Congress.

Of course, this assumes that the POTUS keeps the Congress informed.

Maybe the outrage on the left is because Israel told our Congress things that our POTUS would not.

Really? You think any POTUS should trust a congressperson like this with state secrets? Somehow I don't believe you.

There are appropriate committees and members in Congress that should be up-to-date with the most secret aspects of American foreign policy and negotiations with other countries.

I sure hope when Israel tried to bribe and blackmail our representatives, they checked their clearance level first.

I'm sure they would.

 

[Nat Algren]

Originally posted by Habah:
There should be no diplomacy with Iran... One of the biggest state sponsors of terror in the world, and Flick / Obama wanna help contribute to that..

Not even close.

 

[sijoint]

Originally posted by 86Hawkeye:

Originally posted by joelbc1:
Remember all the outrage last year when it was reported that the US was "spying" on the Germans, the French and the Brits? The cons came out an roasted Obama for doing this and apologized all over to our European allies.
Well guys.....everyone spies on everyone. Just like in MAD Magazine, "Spy vs. Spy". Intelligence means we have to KNOW what everyone else is up to. This can hardly be shocking or unexpected. Germany, France and the Brits and the Israelis all spy on us....just as we do on them.

The cons jumped all over Obama for spying on Germany, France and Britain?

I don't recall that.
_____________________
Republicans remember, Conservatives remember, Tea Party members remember.

 

[Arbitr8]

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Originally posted by Lone Clone:

Originally posted by Sooner-Be-Dead:

Originally posted by What W...us Do?:

Originally posted by FlickShagwell:

to lobby congress to sink our deal?Â

The shock isn't that they spy on us. Or that they would use what they learn. That's normal for all nations. The surprise is that they would find so many accomplices in Congress willing to push Israel's agenda (actually an Israeli candidate's agenda) over our own.

Can you imagine what cons would have said if say Dems had been working with the French to undermine W? It's absurd.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

Well, the Dems were working with the Soviets to undermine Reagan, and nobody seemed to care.

And Reagan's people made deals with the Iranians to undermine Carter.

 

[naturalmwa]

Originally posted by What Would Jesus Do?:
And Reagan's people made deals with the Iranians to undermine Carter.

Hold up here, are you saying Rs used to think negotiations with the ayatollahs was fine? Say it ain't so.

 

[THE_DEVIL]

Originally posted by What Would Jesus Do?:

Originally posted by Lone Clone:

Originally posted by Sooner-Be-Dead:

Originally posted by What W...us Do?:

Originally posted by FlickShagwell:

to lobby congress to sink our deal?Â

The shock isn't that they spy on us. Or that they would use what they learn. That's normal for all nations. The surprise is that they would find so many accomplices in Congress willing to push Israel's agenda (actually an Israeli candidate's agenda) over our own.

Can you imagine what cons would have said if say Dems had been working with the French to undermine W? It's absurd.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

Well, the Dems were working with the Soviets to undermine Reagan, and nobody seemed to care.

And Reagan's people made deals with the Iranians to undermine Carter.

And don't forget Tricky Dick in Viet Nam



http://www.commondreams.org/views/2014/08/12/george-will-confirms-nixons-vietnam-treason

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by What Would Jesus Do?:
And Reagan's people made deals with the Iranians to undermine Carter.

Hold up here, are you saying Rs used to think negotiations with the ayatollahs was fine? Say it ain't so.

More than once and sometimes in clear violation of law. Iran-Contra.

 

[Lone Clone]

Originally posted by What Would Jesus Do?:

Originally posted by Lone Clone:

Originally posted by Sooner-Be-Dead:

Originally posted by What W...us Do?:

Originally posted by FlickShagwell:

to lobby congress to sink our deal?Â

The shock isn't that they spy on us. Or that they would use what they learn. That's normal for all nations. The surprise is that they would find so many accomplices in Congress willing to push Israel's agenda (actually an Israeli candidate's agenda) over our own.

Can you imagine what cons would have said if say Dems had been working with the French to undermine W? It's absurd.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

Well, the Dems were working with the Soviets to undermine Reagan, and nobody seemed to care.

And Reagan's people made deals with the Iranians to undermine Carter.

LOL! Never mind that this has been debunked for decades. It'll never die for the lefties. Are you among those who believe it was done by George H.W. Bush, who was flown to Paris in an SR-71?

 

[naturalmwa]

Originally posted by What Would Jesus Do?:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by What Would Jesus Do?:
And Reagan's people made deals with the Iranians to undermine Carter.

Hold up here, are you saying Rs used to think negotiations with the ayatollahs was fine? Say it ain't so.

More than once and sometimes in clear violation of law. Iran-Contra.

We should try to learn from this. What were the results of the deals Reagan made with them? Did they hold up their end? Rs keep saying we can't trust Iran. Is there empirical justification for that view?

 

[jthawk]

Originally posted by Lone Clone:

Originally posted by What Would Jesus Do?:

Originally posted by Lone Clone:

Originally posted by Sooner-Be-Dead:

Originally posted by What W...us Do?:

Originally posted by FlickShagwell:

to lobby congress to sink our deal?Â

The shock isn't that they spy on us. Or that they would use what they learn. That's normal for all nations. The surprise is that they would find so many accomplices in Congress willing to push Israel's agenda (actually an Israeli candidate's agenda) over our own.

Can you imagine what cons would have said if say Dems had been working with the French to undermine W? It's absurd.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

Well, the Dems were working with the Soviets to undermine Reagan, and nobody seemed to care.

And Reagan's people made deals with the Iranians to undermine Carter.

LOL! Never mind that this has been debunked for decades. It'll never die for the lefties. Are you among those who believe it was done by George H.W. Bush, who was flown to Paris in an SR-71?

Leave them alone LC, they got nothing but they are on a roll

 

[aflachawk]

Lots of anti Semitic lib's on this board, much like the rest of the world. Like every other time, libs actually feel validated by their hatred

 

[IMCC965]

Worst president ever = Bowe Bergdahl.

That was well thought out by Barry, don't you think? How many more examples do you guys need?

 

[naturalmwa]

Originally posted by IMCC965:
Worst president ever = Bowe Bergdahl.

That was well thought out by Barry, don't you think? How many more examples do you guys need?

This is far from the worst thing Obama has done, let alone the worst decision of any President ever. These proclamations make the right look so foolish.

 

[Hawk in SEC Country]

Originally posted by FlickShagwell:

Originally posted by Hawk in SEC Country:


Have you forgotten about spying on Germany? Why won' you call out Obama for sabotaging our trust with one of our best allies?

Probably because I'm not a f***ing German?

So it's okay when we do it........but backstabbing when it's done back to us.

Got it.

 

[Hawk in SEC Country]

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by What Would Jesus Do?:
And Reagan's people made deals with the Iranians to undermine Carter.

Hold up here, are you saying Rs used to think negotiations with the ayatollahs was fine? Say it ain't so.

The dumbest thing on earth is trying to compare bringing home embassy workers who were being held hostage for over a year, saving their lives......to trying to prevent Iran from getting nuclear weapons.


But no......PLEASE make that stupid comparison.

 

[naturalmwa]

Originally posted by Hawk in SEC Country:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by What Would Jesus Do?:
And Reagan's people made deals with the Iranians to undermine Carter.

Hold up here, are you saying Rs used to think negotiations with the ayatollahs was fine? Say it ain't so.

The dumbest thing on earth is trying to compare bringing home embassy workers who were being held hostage for over a year, saving their lives......to trying to prevent Iran from getting nuclear weapons.


But no......PLEASE make that stupid comparison.

So you admit Rs did negotiate with terrorists to good effect? I can see we'll need to baby step you in the right direction.

 

[Hawk in SEC Country]

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by Hawk in SEC Country:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by What Would Jesus Do?:
And Reagan's people made deals with the Iranians to undermine Carter.

Hold up here, are you saying Rs used to think negotiations with the ayatollahs was fine? Say it ain't so.

The dumbest thing on earth is trying to compare bringing home embassy workers who were being held hostage for over a year, saving their lives......to trying to prevent Iran from getting nuclear weapons.


But no......PLEASE make that stupid comparison.

So you admit Rs did negotiate with terrorists to good effect? I can see we'll need to baby step you in the right direction.

Stupid comparison. That's all that needs to be pointed out.

 

[Nat Algren]

Originally posted by HallofFame:
I see the antisemitism is out in full force tonight. Let me guess the Holocaust was a lie also.

Where?

 

[strummingram]

Originally posted by Nat Algren:

Originally posted by HallofFame:
I see the antisemitism is out in full force tonight. Let me guess the Holocaust was a lie also.

Where?

Yeah.... I fail to see any criticism or prejudice toward Judaism anywhere in this thread. Just the typical left vs. right pissing match. I wonder how many even know what the origin of Semitic even means? Is Bibi descended from the Tribe of Shem? Does it really matter? For that matter, who cares what his religious rituals consist of? I'm not even sure Israel has any descendents of the Tribe of Shem. The Holocaust was horrible, but I'm not sure that a whole group of people based on their religious beliefs, deserve some token "home" because blank-million died. A lot of innocent people died in World War II. In fact, most of the people that died were innocent people! Oh well.

Continue with which side is worse...

 

[Nat Algren]

Originally posted by strummingram:

Originally posted by Nat Algren:

Originally posted by HallofFame:
I see the antisemitism is out in full force tonight. Let me guess the Holocaust was a lie also.

Where?

Yeah.... I fail to see any criticism or prejudice toward Judaism anywhere in this thread. Just the typical left vs. right pissing match. I wonder how many even know what the origin of Semitic even means? Is Bibi descended from the Tribe of Shem? Does it really matter? For that matter, who cares what his religious rituals consist of? I'm not even sure Israel has any descendents of the Tribe of Shem. The Holocaust was horrible, but I'm not sure that a whole group of people based on their religious beliefs, deserve some token "home" because blank-million died. A lot of innocent people died in World War II. In fact, most of the people that died were innocent people! Oh well.

Continue with which side is worse...

By his logic, if everyone sided with Israel, would that make them anti-Muslim? Probably an Israel-firster.

This post was edited on 3/26 5:04 PM by Nat Algren

 

[Arbitr8]

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by 86Hawkeye:
I find it interesting that Israel is alleged to have spied on the Iran talks in order to inform the US Congress about what it's own POTUS was doing.

I would hope that even if Israel did do this, any information coming from them would be old news to Congress.

Of course, this assumes that the POTUS keeps the Congress informed.

Maybe the outrage on the left is because Israel told our Congress things that our POTUS would not.

Really? You think any POTUS should trust a congressperson like this with state secrets? Somehow I don't believe you.

Is that a rode clown or something similar?

 

[naturalmwa]

Originally posted by Arbitr8:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Really? You think any POTUS should trust a congressperson like this with state secrets? Somehow I don't believe you.

Is that a rode clown or something similar?

She's a congressperson from Florida, so similar.

 

[strummingram]

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Originally posted by Arbitr8:

Originally posted by naturalmwa:

Really? You think any POTUS should trust a congressperson like this with state secrets? Somehow I don't believe you.

Is that a rode clown or something similar?

She's a congressperson from Florida, so similar.

Not a congresswoman? Are you sure she is a she?

 

[naturalmwa]

Originally posted by strummingram:
Not a congresswoman? Are you sure she is a she?

I have no intimate knowledge of that woman, but she passes as feminine to my eye. Maybe one of our FL posters can satisfy your curiosity.

 

[Arbitr8]

Originally posted by wildcatdad:

Originally posted by Lone Clone:
As it stands now, the preponderance of evidence indicates the story isn't true, and probably was planted by somebody in the White House.

It really doesn't matter. Bibi is your President.

As one reporter said about Republicans, do they think they are never going to be in the WH again?

After Berries the republicans could run anyone and win!

 

[hawkbleeder]

Originally posted by IMCC965:
As it stands, I trust Bibi to do the right thing IRT Iran, than what Obama and Kerry are proposing. So yes, I'm glad the Israelis are keeping track of what's going on in the Middle East.

You should too.

+1 !

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Originally posted by Lone Clone:

Originally posted by What Would Jesus Do?:

Originally posted by Lone Clone:

Originally posted by Sooner-Be-Dead:

Originally posted by What W...us Do?:

Originally posted by FlickShagwell:

to lobby congress to sink our deal?Â

The shock isn't that they spy on us. Or that they would use what they learn. That's normal for all nations. The surprise is that they would find so many accomplices in Congress willing to push Israel's agenda (actually an Israeli candidate's agenda) over our own.

Can you imagine what cons would have said if say Dems had been working with the French to undermine W? It's absurd.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

Well, the Dems were working with the Soviets to undermine Reagan, and nobody seemed to care.

And Reagan's people made deals with the Iranians to undermine Carter.

LOL! Never mind that this has been debunked for decades. It'll never die for the lefties. Are you among those who believe it was done by George H.W. Bush, who was flown to Paris in an SR-71?

Only people like you think - and reliably regurgitate - that this has been debunked. You are wrong, of course - as usual - but I've given up wasting effort on schooling you about it. This is just one of the covert deals made with Iran by the Reagan folks. Some of them clearly illegal.

 

[Lone Clone]

Originally posted by What Would Jesus Do?:

Originally posted by Lone Clone:

Originally posted by What Would Jesus Do?:

Originally posted by Lone Clone:

Originally posted by Sooner-Be-Dead:

Originally posted by What W...us Do?:

Originally posted by FlickShagwell:

to lobby congress to sink our deal?Â

The shock isn't that they spy on us. Or that they would use what they learn. That's normal for all nations. The surprise is that they would find so many accomplices in Congress willing to push Israel's agenda (actually an Israeli candidate's agenda) over our own.

Can you imagine what cons would have said if say Dems had been working with the French to undermine W? It's absurd.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

Well, the Dems were working with the Soviets to undermine Reagan, and nobody seemed to care.

And Reagan's people made deals with the Iranians to undermine Carter.

LOL! Never mind that this has been debunked for decades. It'll never die for the lefties. Are you among those who believe it was done by George H.W. Bush, who was flown to Paris in an SR-71?

Only people like you think - and reliably regurgitate - that this has been debunked. You are wrong, of course - as usual - but I've given up wasting effort on schooling you about it. This is just one of the covert deals made with Iran by the Reagan folks. Some of them clearly illegal.

Yeah. You got one of them pitchers of G.W. Bush flying that Blackbird? Presumably when he was fleeing after shooting JFK.