NYC To Involuntarily Commit Mentally Ill Homeless

[NoleATL]

There needs to be more of this. Letting them live on the streets is not compassionate. Lots of questions on how, who will pay, etc but in Atlanta the (mostly) mentally ill homeless have burned down 2 bridges (one on I-85 and another on a very busy commuter/commercial road. They cause numerous fires in their encampments that can kill themselves and first responders. They continually steal, break into houses and cars. The physically assault and threaten others.

The New York Times reports:

Mayor Eric Adams announced a major effort on Tuesday to remove people with severe, untreated mental illness from the city’s streets and subways, saying New York had “a moral obligation” to address “a crisis we see all around us.”
The effort will involve hospitalizing people involuntarily, even if they do not pose an immediate risk of harm to others. “The common misunderstanding persists that we cannot provide involuntary assistance unless the person is violent,” Mr. Adams said. “This myth must be put to rest.”
Crime has increased sharply in the subways this year, and the mayor said last month that mental illness was the main cause of it: “When you do an analysis of the subway crimes, you are seeing that it’s being driven by people with mental health issues.”

 

[Finance85]

I guess the devil is in the details. Yes, a great many of the homeless are mentally ill. There are quite a few who make it a lifestyle. I saw that when I was working in downtown Portland a couple of year ago.

 

[NDallasRuss]

I guess the devil is in the details. Yes, a great many of the homeless are mentally ill. There are quite a few who make it a lifestyle. I saw that when I was working in downtown Portland a couple of year ago.

You might make the argument that choosing homelessness as a lifestyle is, in itself, a form of mental illness.

 

[Finance85]

You might make the argument that choosing homelessness as a lifestyle is, in itself, a form of mental illness.

That's very true. That said, does that mean they should be involuntarily committed to a mental health facility if they aren't violent?

 

[fredjr82]

That's very true. That said, does that mean they should be involuntarily committed to a mental health facility if they aren't violent?

Yes. People are committed to mental health facilities all the time against their will. Most of the time a family member commits them or a trip to the ER for something will get them held up for 72 hours minimum. These people probably don't have much family keeping an eye on them. So a person who is not related to them will now need to make those decisions. It's tough I understand, but throwing our arms up and saying "what can we do" happens way too much in this country. I'm sure there will be problems (and those not in favor) wlll highlight them ad nauseum. Overall I think it's a good idea that should provide value.

 

[Colonoscopy]

Tricky topic where ethics are concerned. We hold bodily autonomy as sacred. Who's to say where mental illness begins and ends? Should the state be able to define, diagnose, and treat mental illness?

On the opposite end... surely some mental illness would cause a person to behave a way that they wouldn't ever desire. There does seem to be something like a "right mind" even if you can't precisely define it.

 

[tumorboy]

I guess the devil is in the details. Yes, a great many of the homeless are mentally ill. There are quite a few who make it a lifestyle. I saw that when I was working in downtown Portland a couple of year ago.

The ones who are malnourished stand out. Panhandlers in Milwaukee who are careerist aren't hard to identify. Usually track marks on the arm too.

 

[NDallasRuss]

That's very true. That said, does that mean they should be involuntarily committed to a mental health facility if they aren't violent?

If I get to pick, then I say yes. Even if they're not violent, they could still be a public health risk. At a minimum they are a public nuisance as they relieve themselves in public, block sidewalks, beg for money, etc. Commit them, treat their illness, and help them address their lives from a warmer, safer place.

 

[tumorboy]

If I get to pick, then I say yes. Even if they're not violent, they could still be a public health risk. At a minimum they are a public nuisance as they relieve themselves in public, block sidewalks, beg for money, etc. Commit them, treat their illness, and help them address their lives from a warmer, safer place.

Plus LEO's shouldn't be the ones who have to deal with them. Especially if they're nonviolent.

 

[seminole97]

You might make the argument that choosing homelessness as a lifestyle is, in itself, a form of mental illness.

Vegans while you’re at it…

 

[seminole97]

Tricky topic where ethics are concerned. We hold bodily autonomy as sacred. Who's to say where mental illness begins and ends? Should the state be able to define, diagnose, and treat mental illness?

It already does, Mayor Adams asserts it’s a ‘myth’ they can’t do it more than they already do.

From a historical standpoint, the Supreme Court addressed the status of civil commitments in the 1975 case of O’Connor v. Donaldson. This case involved a patient, Donaldson, who spent approximately 14 years hospitalized. The Supreme Court ruled that civil commitment was unconstitutional based solely on mental illness and that the patient must be dangerous to either self or others: Donaldson was not dangerous and was ordered released.

 

[bhawk24bob]

He's disrupting big business for a lot of non profits that advocate for the mentally ill

 

[hawkbirch]

I'm really jealous of the number of open mental health beds they must have in New York. I wish we had that problem in Iowa.

 

[Aardvark86]

That's very true. That said, does that mean they should be involuntarily committed to a mental health facility if they aren't violent?

We need to stop treating mental Illness as a civil liberty issue and start treating it as a public health issue

 

[seminole97]

I'm really jealous of the number of open mental health beds they must have in New York. I wish we had that problem in Iowa.

NY is actually below the US average, but Iowa… yikes!

 

[EasyHawk]

I am sure different states have different laws regarding this, but having been through this process, in Iowa the person needs to tell or show that he is going to harm himself or others. Doctors told us that, police told us that, and the county clerk told us that. We proceeded anyway and the judge did believe there was enough merit to have the person picked up and evaluated at the ER, but once he saw (via video, that is how it is done here) the mental health counselor and told her he was not currently thinking of harming himself or others, he was released immediately. He was court-ordered to turn any guns over to us once we got him home and he did give us one and we had previously taken another we knew about, but we think he has others somewhere. It was a very strange process. All along the way everyone we talked to told us how hard it would be to get a committal and that it becomes a revolving door as the people know not to say they think they might harm themselves or others.

 

[Kinnick.At.Night]

How is that even remotely constitutional?

 

[GES4]

How is that even remotely constitutional?

Committing the mentally ill?

 

[seminole97]

Committing the mentally ill?

From a historical standpoint, the Supreme Court addressed the status of civil commitments in the 1975 case of O’Connor v. Donaldson. This case involved a patient, Donaldson, who spent approximately 14 years hospitalized. The Supreme Court ruled that civil commitment was unconstitutional based solely on mental illness and that the patient must be dangerous to either self or others: Donaldson was not dangerous and was ordered released.

 

[ihhawk]

There are the mentally ill and then the drug addicts. Both need to be addressed in the same manner.

There would need to be funding for it but I think there are a lot of old shopping malls that can be easily converted to be used as drug treatment centers. Spend the resources on treating the addiction

 

[lucas80]

I'm really jealous of the number of open mental health beds they must have in New York. I wish we had that problem in Iowa.

2 mental health facilities closed, 2 more to go!!
I'll get an even bigger tax break!!

 

[Jerome Silberman]

They better have the resources and infrastructure in place or they'll just create a human rights problem.

 

[Whatsgoingonwitgyouguys0190]

I feel like education and mental health issues have fallen to the point that they are now both national defense issues. Redirect some of that tank money to help these issues.

 

[IACub]

I don't see any way that anyone could abuse this.

Can you imagine if this was Iowa? Reynolds would immediately privatize the institutions so they can operate as a for-profit business, just like prisons. It could very easily become a good business venture to grab anyone who shows any sign of mental illness. A couple kickbacks to cops, judges, and social workers, it's suddenly making people very rich while removing the "undesirables" from the streets. I'm not normally a chicken little, but this idea sends chills down my spine.

 

[NoleATL]

Should the state be able to define, diagnose, and treat mental illness?

Of course and it does.

 

[onlyTheObvious]

Driving along Fluer in Des Moines looks to be a lot of homeless living in woods by Grays lake.

 

[NoleATL]

I'm really jealous of the number of open mental health beds they must have in New York. I wish we had that problem in Iowa.

Yep, it will definitely be a challenge. My thought is municipalities will need to be creative in finding spaces and each situation may not be perfect and likely far from it... I think we need to look to an improvement from the community perspective...

 

[Hawk and Awe]

We need to stop treating mental Illness as a civil liberty issue and start treating it as a public health issue

I don’t have a problem with this statement… but throwing another crisis on the health system is less than ideal.

I was actually in a Des Moines (unity point) behavioral health office today and wow is it a dark depressing place. I thought we got stuck on the elevator and it just felt like nothing had been updated in 30 hears (including processes).

We treat animals better than people struggling with mental health problems.

 

[ParkerHawk]

There are the mentally ill and then the drug addicts. Both need to be addressed in the same manner.

There would need to be funding for it but I think there are a lot of old shopping malls that can be easily converted to be used as drug treatment centers. Spend the resources on treating the addiction

No, there are the mentally ill and the lazy non conformists. Drug addicts are a subset of each group.

 

[tumorboy]

I don’t have a problem with this statement… but throwing another crisis on the health system is less than ideal.

I was actually in a Des Moines (unity point) behavioral health office today and wow is it a dark depressing place. I thought we got stuck on the elevator and it just felt like nothing had been updated in 30 hears (including processes).

We treat animals better than people struggling with mental health problems.

There just isn't enough profit to made off treating the mentally ill. By the time u get to unity point. A good chunk of those folks are on Medicaid.