Observations on lineups and player utilization

Hawktucson

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Okay, I've been thinking about what I have seen in the past 2 games. First of all, without a doubt Tony Perkins needs starter minutes every game. He is undoubtedly the best defender and penetrator we have. He isn't afraid of anyone and he's disruptive in the press. I think Tony should start alongside of Joe T. I would like to see JBo come in against shorter guards where he matches up better and run Sandfort alongside of him at times, giving us 2 good outside shooters. Ulis needs more time with Tony in the game as they are very good defensively together. Patrick needs to be a bit more selective in his shots and needs to rebound better than he's shown. I think that Keegan and Kris are doing great. One or both of them need to be playing at any one time. Rebraca needs to play less minutes. He is better against smaller lineups. I feel, he is more of a forward than a center.. Why didn't Fran play JO more last game. JO won't get better unless he plays more minutes. We will need his rebounding. Fran played him one minute against Illinois. Look what he did against Purdue. Josh is hard to move, he takes up space, and he had 7 pts@ Purdue and 5 boards. Play him more against the big centers like Kofi. Play Connor less please. Give Josh some of his minutes and Rebraca's minutes. Connor still has made only 1 three point shot this year and that was against Illinois, the whole year. So my starting lineup would be Joe T, Tony, Patrick, Kris and Keegan. Coming off the bench I'd like to see AU, Kris,/Sandfort, JBO, Josh O. Riley could use a couple minutes to get him adjusted to BIG competition. Maybe Fran should take some of the responsibility for not playing Josh and giving up 51 boards to Illinois only to say" Maybe I should have played him more." He may have mistakes as he plays more minutes but he would have helped us more against Illinois than rewarding him with 1 minute coming off his performance in the Purdue game. Are you kidding Fran? . One minute with a block on Kofi and a board in his limited appearance against Illinois. Play Josh, A Ulis, Tony and Sandfort and Kris more. and cut Connor,JBO and Rebraca's minutes. Also when JBO can shake the defense and make 40% of his 3's, then play him, otherwise cut his minutes for Sandfort who's likely going to surprise people like Tony and Luka did. He can create a mismatch at the 2 whereas JBO is losing his guy on defense and well gives up a bucket. I am firmly in the opinion Connor and JBO need less minutes for for offense and defense. This team needs to move forward with starting Tony and Kris.
 

HawkLogic

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Feb 20, 2011
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Okay, I've been thinking about what I have seen in the past 2 games. First of all, without a doubt Tony Perkins needs starter minutes every game. He is undoubtedly the best defender and penetrator we have. He isn't afraid of anyone and he's disruptive in the press. I think Tony should start alongside of Joe T. I would like to see JBo come in against shorter guards where he matches up better and run Sandfort alongside of him at times, giving us 2 good outside shooters. Ulis needs more time with Tony in the game as they are very good defensively together. Patrick needs to be a bit more selective in his shots and needs to rebound better than he's shown. I think that Keegan and Kris are doing great. One or both of them need to be playing at any one time. Rebraca needs to play less minutes. He is better against smaller lineups. I feel, he is more of a forward than a center.. Why didn't Fran play JO more last game. JO won't get better unless he plays more minutes. We will need his rebounding. Fran played him one minute against Illinois. Look what he did against Purdue. Josh is hard to move, he takes up space, and he had 7 pts@ Purdue and 5 boards. Play him more against the big centers like Kofi. Play Connor less please. Give Josh some of his minutes and Rebraca's minutes. Connor still has made only 1 three point shot this year and that was against Illinois, the whole year. So my starting lineup would be Joe T, Tony, Patrick, Kris and Keegan. Coming off the bench I'd like to see AU, Kris,/Sandfort, JBO, Josh O. Riley could use a couple minutes to get him adjusted to BIG competition. Maybe Fran should take some of the responsibility for not playing Josh and giving up 51 boards to Illinois only to say" Maybe I should have played him more." He may have mistakes as he plays more minutes but he would have helped us more against Illinois than rewarding him with 1 minute coming off his performance in the Purdue game. Are you kidding Fran? . One minute with a block on Kofi and a board in his limited appearance against Illinois. Play Josh, A Ulis, Tony and Sandfort and Kris more. and cut Connor,JBO and Rebraca's minutes. Also when JBO can shake the defense and make 40% of his 3's, then play him, otherwise cut his minutes for Sandfort who's likely going to surprise people like Tony and Luka did. He can create a mismatch at the 2 whereas JBO is losing his guy on defense and well gives up a bucket. I am firmly in the opinion Connor and JBO need less minutes for for offense and defense. This team needs to move forward with starting Tony and Kris.

yes! but no, it won't happen.
 
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elway

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yes! but no, it won't happen.
I posted a similar thread with the thoughts of the same starting 5 and questioned why Josh wasn't seeing substantial minutes against Kofi after scoring at will by throwing over top of our Defense, turning and putting in a 2 foot shot. I'm not sure if Fran thinks each of the first and second 5 are better together but putting the 5 out that you recommended and then shortening the rotation and playing the guy(s) with the hot hand or better suited for playing the opponent on a given evening still gives the best starting 5 a breather while keeping them on the floor longer. I'd love to see continuing the press but only when it works which last night was 50/50, I have to think Keegan shouldn't be playing currently because he is clearly hurt as can be seen by has lack of aggression and attacking style he usually plays with.. Even though he missed the breakaway dunk off the steal, I was impressed by how much he elevated and the power he went with. When healthy and he hits his potential, it is going to be scary. I get the sense he is surprising himself sometimes with what he can do with the ball. Last night was not anyone's night, especially the twins.
 

FWIW4922463

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If you won't rebound, won't play 40 minutes of defense, and have only one reliable scorer . . . well, that's not exactly a formula for success. After playing Purdue and Ohio State, I thought this team could go .500 in the BIG. Now I don't. Looks like the ceiling is around 10th in the league and, maybe, the NIT.
 

kcgolfer

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Sep 23, 2003
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IMO, PMac, JBO and Conner are getting way too many minutes. Add Rebracca to that list also. I think we should be rotating Josh O and Mulvey at the post. They both have more upside than Rebracca.

For all JBO has done for us, he is still a huge liability on defense and struggles to get his shot off. PMac thinks he is still in high school and can drive on anyone, resulting in ridiculous wide shots that rarely go in. He gives us no defense or rebounding. Conner is slow on defense and is a zero offensive threat. How the hell are we supposed to win when those three get all the minutes???
 

BVHawkeye

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Jan 6, 2003
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IMO, PMac, JBO and Conner are getting way too many minutes. Add Rebracca to that list also. I think we should be rotating Josh O and Mulvey at the post. They both have more upside than Rebracca.

For all JBO has done for us, he is still a huge liability on defense and struggles to get his shot off. PMac thinks he is still in high school and can drive on anyone, resulting in ridiculous wide shots that rarely go in. He gives us no defense or rebounding. Conner is slow on defense and is a zero offensive threat. How the hell are we supposed to win when those three get all the minutes???
You realize PMac was our leading rebounder last game, right? My starting lineup would be Joe T, Tony P, PMac, Both Murray’s. I really like Aaron U., Rebracca would be good off the bench along with JBo.
 

Ihawkhoops

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There isn't a better lineup combo IMO. The names are different, but the limitations are the same. The lack of a true scoring PG is problematic. Combine this with no interior presence and bad D and you have Keegan and a bunch of role players whose play is wildly inconsistent.

I am to the point of advocating for Ash to get some PT as we aren't good defensively and he is more capable than others of making a few shots. He is at least willing to shoot, which is more than I can say for someone who gets a lot of PT and whines incessantly to the refs.
 

ICWestfan

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May 26, 2005
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Okay, I've been thinking about what I have seen in the past 2 games. First of all, without a doubt Tony Perkins needs starter minutes every game. He is undoubtedly the best defender and penetrator we have. He isn't afraid of anyone and he's disruptive in the press. I think Tony should start alongside of Joe T. I would like to see JBo come in against shorter guards where he matches up better and run Sandfort alongside of him at times, giving us 2 good outside shooters. Ulis needs more time with Tony in the game as they are very good defensively together. Patrick needs to be a bit more selective in his shots and needs to rebound better than he's shown. I think that Keegan and Kris are doing great. One or both of them need to be playing at any one time. Rebraca needs to play less minutes. He is better against smaller lineups. I feel, he is more of a forward than a center.. Why didn't Fran play JO more last game. JO won't get better unless he plays more minutes. We will need his rebounding. Fran played him one minute against Illinois. Look what he did against Purdue. Josh is hard to move, he takes up space, and he had 7 pts@ Purdue and 5 boards. Play him more against the big centers like Kofi. Play Connor less please. Give Josh some of his minutes and Rebraca's minutes. Connor still has made only 1 three point shot this year and that was against Illinois, the whole year. So my starting lineup would be Joe T, Tony, Patrick, Kris and Keegan. Coming off the bench I'd like to see AU, Kris,/Sandfort, JBO, Josh O. Riley could use a couple minutes to get him adjusted to BIG competition. Maybe Fran should take some of the responsibility for not playing Josh and giving up 51 boards to Illinois only to say" Maybe I should have played him more." He may have mistakes as he plays more minutes but he would have helped us more against Illinois than rewarding him with 1 minute coming off his performance in the Purdue game. Are you kidding Fran? . One minute with a block on Kofi and a board in his limited appearance against Illinois. Play Josh, A Ulis, Tony and Sandfort and Kris more. and cut Connor,JBO and Rebraca's minutes. Also when JBO can shake the defense and make 40% of his 3's, then play him, otherwise cut his minutes for Sandfort who's likely going to surprise people like Tony and Luka did. He can create a mismatch at the 2 whereas JBO is losing his guy on defense and well gives up a bucket. I am firmly in the opinion Connor and JBO need less minutes for for offense and defense. This team needs to move forward with starting Tony and Kris.
TL;DR. Also, paragraphs are your friend.
 
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kcgolfer

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You realize PMac was our leading rebounder last game, right? My starting lineup would be Joe T, Tony P, PMac, Both Murray’s. I really like Aaron U., Rebracca would be good off the bench along with JBo.
One time leading in rebounding does not make up for his deficiencies.
 
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RocknRollface

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There isn't a better lineup combo IMO. The names are different, but the limitations are the same. The lack of a true scoring PG is problematic. Combine this with no interior presence and bad D and you have Keegan and a bunch of role players whose play is wildly inconsistent.

I am to the point of advocating for Ash to get some PT as we aren't good defensively and he is more capable than others of making a few shots. He is at least willing to shoot, which is more than I can say for someone who gets a lot of PT and whines incessantly to the refs.
Thats insane.

The only players on the roster that are similar are the twins and Toussaint/Ulis.

Jbo and Perkins couldn't possibly be more different.

Kris is very different than either Pat or Rebraca who he subs for.

Connor is unique to put it nicely.

Sandfort is uniquely talented.

You're going to advocate for Ash when Fran won't even play Sandfort who is 10x the player and better than half the starters?

How drunk were you when you thought this up?
 

unoHawkeye

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There isn't a better lineup combo IMO. The names are different, but the limitations are the same. The lack of a true scoring PG is problematic. Combine this with no interior presence and bad D and you have Keegan and a bunch of role players whose play is wildly inconsistent.

I am to the point of advocating for Ash to get some PT as we aren't good defensively and he is more capable than others of making a few shots. He is at least willing to shoot, which is more than I can say for someone who gets a lot of PT and whines incessantly to the refs.
Toussaint really just doesn’t force much, but I could see him being a true scoring PG. He can get the mid range jumper pretty much any time he wants, and hits it at a high percentage
 
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pocha444444

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Thats insane.

The only players on the roster that are similar are the twins and Toussaint/Ulis.

Jbo and Perkins couldn't possibly be more different.

Kris is very different than either Pat or Rebraca who he subs for.

Connor is unique to put it nicely.

Sandfort is uniquely talented.

You're going to advocate for Ash when Fran won't even play Sandfort who is 10x the player and better than half the starters?

How drunk were you when you thought this up?
I don't think Ulis and Toussaint are all that similar either. They are both good on D but for different reasons. Ulis is bigger and more physical while Toussaint causes more havoc and turnovers. On offense Toussaint is much more of a creator than Ulis. Ulis is pretty conservative on offense. Toussaint has developed the midrange shot that he can get most times he wants, while Ulis doesn't have much of a shot from anywhere nor does he ever really look to shoot.

Had to edit to Lol at that guys Ash mention as well. Yes what this team needs is an unathletic walkon that throws up set shot heaves at a 26% clip! How has Fran never thought of this?!
 
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goodbyebobby

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I don't think Ulis and Toussaint are all that similar either. They are both good on D but for different reasons. Ulis is bigger and more physical while Toussaint causes more havoc and turnovers. On offense Toussaint is much more of a creator than Ulis. Ulis is pretty conservative on offense. Toussaint has developed the midrange shot that he can get most times he wants, while Ulis doesn't have much of a shot from anywhere nor does he ever really look to shoot.

Had to edit to Lol at that guys Ash mention as well. Yes what this team needs is an unathletic walkon that throws up set shot heaves at a 26% clip! How has Fran never thought of this?!
Let Ulis be the 2/1 and Joe is the 1.
Start Perkins with them, bench JBo and Connor, and we are immediately better.

Instead, Fran will play JBo and Connor together.

This crap is old and IU may throttle us.
 
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pocha444444

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I am to the point of advocating for Ash to get some PT as we aren't good defensively and he is more capable than others of making a few shots. He is at least willing to shoot, which is more than I can say for someone who gets a lot of PT and whines incessantly to the refs.

No way you're being serious
 

pocha444444

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Let Ulis be the 2/1 and Joe is the 1.
Start Perkins with them, bench JBo and Connor, and we are immediately better.

Instead, Fran will play JBo and Connor together.

This crap is old and IU may throttle us.
Yep I think everyone is pretty much in agreement on this except for Fran. I don't care who starts but it's obvious to anyone with eyes that the Murray twins need more time on the floor together and Rebraca needs less. Connor and Jbo also need less minutes. There's a role for Jbo, but when he can't even get a shot off like against Wisconsin then it's completely absurd that he ends up with 29 mins and the second most on the team. Just absolutely insane.
 

Ihawkhoops

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No way you're being serious
Lol, not yet, but at some point the kid was put on scholarship and Fran said he should have used him more last year. I realize the absurdity of what I am saying, but is it less absurd than playing Connor whose only measurable stats the other night were 5 fouls and a tweet whining about big ten officiating?
 

Ihawkhoops

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Toussaint really just doesn’t force much, but I could see him being a true scoring PG. He can get the mid range jumper pretty much any time he wants, and hits it at a high percentage
Agree, but either Joe doesn't understand what Fran wants from him or Fran is delusional about the ability of other guys to create offense. Outside of Keegan, there isn't a great second-scoring option that doesn't need someone to create for them. I would like to see Joe use better judgment, but having him play passive is hurting the team IMO.
 
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goodbyebobby

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Agree, but either Joe doesn't understand what Fran wants from him or Fran is delusional about the ability of other guys to create offense. Outside of Keegan, there isn't a great second-scoring option that doesn't need someone to create for them. I would like to see Joe use better judgment, but having him play passive is hurting the team IMO.
Lol, Fran will play him with JBo and Connor.
 

hawkguy77

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If you won't rebound, won't play 40 minutes of defense, and have only one reliable scorer . . . well, that's not exactly a formula for success. After playing Purdue and Ohio State, I thought this team could go .500 in the BIG. Now I don't. Looks like the ceiling is around 10th in the league and, maybe, the NIT.
Damn, I must have missed the Ohio State game. When did we play them?