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*****Official Cubs 2020 thread*****

I only heard a small portion of the press conference live, but it's clear that they want to project the image that Ross is his own man.
I didn't recognize the name, but a female reporter threw out a question to Ross about how well he'd deal with Hispanic players. I was driving, and maybe I didn't hear it right. Did that strike anyone as odd? Off hand I don't know if Ross speaks Spanish. I assume he must have a functional understanding after working with Spanish speaking pitchers.
 
For the sake of argument may we say that the core
trio of the Cubs includes Baez, Bryant, and Rizzo.
Everyone else is on the table for discussion to be
be traded. Tom Ricketts is not going to give Theo
a blank check for free agents. Upgrades will need
to come from trades.
who says those 3 are untouchable? for the right price anyone can be moved.....
BTW we have money to spend, it just needs to be spent wisely.
 
That ruling will come fairly soon and then the Cubs can look at trades. He still has value if the Cubs lose the ruling....though the Cubs might get a better haul if they roll the dice and trade him at the deadline if they're having a middling season.

As for the ruling, it's 100% obvious what the Cubs did and why they did it. They weren't even particularly bashful about it at the time. That said, they played 100% within the rules that were negotiated between the owners and players. I really don't think the Cubs should lose the grievance. I get why KB doesn't like it and I said at the time that the move might be short-sighted because it might make KB less likely to stay long-term, but I really can't see justification for awarding the win to KB on this.
I haven't read up on this, but sounds like news I will like.

KB has been WAY overpaid compared to other arb players!!
 
I would tend to agree, but if 2020 does not go well, he could draw a really good return in a deadline deal. Adding a bat like that at the deadline with another year of team-friendly control wouldn't come cheap.

That said, I actually wouldn't be surprised if the Cubs and Rizzo come to a deal this off-season that adds 3 years to the back end of his contract to lock up the rest of his productive years.
If they combine his team friendly contract with his new one, does that raise his AAV for this/next year and lower for the others or does his current contract stay in place and the extra cash just get added to the end of the deal(payroll wise)?
 
The Cubs have to get serious about talking to Bryant/Boras about extension. If there is no appetite to signing before hitting the market, then you have to seriously consider trading him, especially with the grievance hearing this week (I have looked, but haven't seen any outcome yet). If you don't trade him and he walks, then you get a comp pick. If you trade him (especially if the Cubs win the grievance hearing and he has 2 years of team control left), you'd get far more than a sandwich pick.
just googled quick, looks like he want to be FA year early?
screw that crybaby!!
There is a reason he isn't even a top 5 cub to me! (that is obviously not based on performance only of course)
 
If they combine his team friendly contract with his new one, does that raise his AAV for this/next year and lower for the others or does his current contract stay in place and the extra cash just get added to the end of the deal(payroll wise)?

They'll have a lot of choices. It would just come down to the details.
 
just googled quick, looks like he want to be FA year early?
screw that crybaby!!
There is a reason he isn't even a top 5 cub to me! (that is obviously not based on performance only of course)

In fairness, this was the grievance Boras filed on his behalf as a rookie....and the Cubs DID intentionally manipulate his service time. But, they did everything within the bounds of the CBA.
 
Manager David Ross does not know who will be on
the team next season. Trades and Free agents will
muddy the waters this Winter. Once the dust clears,
the Spring Training games should be interesting.
 
I come in peace.:p

But I'd like to comment on the "trading KB" discussion. It's extremely rare to see top guys change teams via trade. Especially when the Cubs would expect a top level SP as a return. Any team willing to add Bryant would be a team that thinks he's a missing piece on an already good team. That described team won't be willing to deal a #1/2 Starter.

To me... Bryant goes at the trade deadline next July if the Cubs are struggling. Cubs would hope to get top level minor league guys similar to what the White Sox got for Chris Sale, even tho that trade happened during the winter meetings.

And if I'm mgmt... I don't sign Rizzo to a longer deal until I'm convinced his back problems are corrected.

Mgmt needs to determine if 2019 was a fluke or the beginning of the end.
 
I come in peace.:p

But I'd like to comment on the "trading KB" discussion. It's extremely rare to see top guys change teams via trade. Especially when the Cubs would expect a top level SP as a return. Any team willing to add Bryant would be a team that thinks he's a missing piece on an already good team. That described team won't be willing to deal a #1/2 Starter.

To me... Bryant goes at the trade deadline next July if the Cubs are struggling. Cubs would hope to get top level minor league guys similar to what the White Sox got for Chris Sale, even tho that trade happened during the winter meetings.

And if I'm mgmt... I don't sign Rizzo to a longer deal until I'm convinced his back problems are corrected.

Mgmt needs to determine if 2019 was a fluke or the beginning of the end.
Rizzo played 6th most games at first base this year
 
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Rizzo played 6th most games at first base this year
Games played for Anthony Rizzo in the last three seasons... 157/153/146.
If I'm mgmt, I'm concerned he's wearing down. Granted, he's a staple on this team and maybe that's worth something.

But I'd be waiting until July of 2020 to see where this team is headed in regards to KB/AR before I lock either guy down.

It will be interesting to see what pieces they add during the off season.
 
This might not be Theo’s choice. Tom Ricketts probably values sustained success more than allowing Theo to go hogwild so that he and his buddies can win one more title before leaving the organization in shambles after 2021.

Perhaps Theo has spoken with Tom and expressed a desire to be in Chicago longer-term, acknowledges his failures over the last 3 years, and is committed to a soft rebuild next year. Jason McLeod’s continued employment with the club, and the recent hires all being internal moves tell me that’s likely not the case.

 
Rickett's answer doesn't exactly make me feel real optimistic about 2020, if I'm a Cub's fan. If he's talking about development(farm system), that's likely a minimum of a 2-3 year plan. By then...KB/AR could be gone and so will Hamels and Lester.

The chances you hit on a Castellanos/LaMahieu type guy are pretty small. Could be a slow crawl back to the playoffs.
 
Rickett's answer doesn't exactly make me feel real optimistic about 2020, if I'm a Cub's fan. If he's talking about development(farm system), that's likely a minimum of a 2-3 year plan. By then...KB/AR could be gone and so will Hamels and Lester.

The chances you hit on a Castellanos/LaMahieu type guy are pretty small. Could be a slow crawl back to the playoffs.

We’re not winning with this team — don’t have the starting pitching. I’m fine with them trading some pieces to replenish the farm system. They still have enough to be competitive and watchable.
 
We’re not winning with this team — don’t have the starting pitching. I’m fine with them trading some pieces to replenish the farm system. They still have enough to be competitive and watchable.
I think you're correct, but I wonder if Cub fans are really that patient... as a fan base? Post #253 predicts it won't be a 3-5 year rebuild, but replenishing the farm system isn't a quick fix based on where it is right now.
 
I think you're correct, but I wonder if Cub fans are really that patient... as a fan base? Post #253 predicts it won't be a 3-5 year rebuild, but replenishing the farm system isn't a quick fix based on where it is right now.

I dont think ownership wants a 3-5 year rebuild, i think they want a 2-3 year rebuild.
 
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I think you're correct, but I wonder if Cub fans are really that patient... as a fan base? Post #253 predicts it won't be a 3-5 year rebuild, but replenishing the farm system isn't a quick fix based on where it is right now.

It all depends on what we're talking about with "winning". I think the Ricketts have shown that they're not going to blast past the luxury tax threshold, but I also don't see any indication that they're going to slash payroll. Are they going to be a dynasty team in the near term or even an apparent dominant team like the Astros? Not very likely......but even if the make a couple trades to start restocking the system, they're unlikely to completely gut the team of ML pieces and go back into tank mode.

I assume they're going to work to lock up Javy and they're going to plug in a few spots with some guys. It's not like the Cubs are going to be rolling out a 60-win team next year. I think they'll compete for the division and WC again and if they can get to the playoffs, see if they get hot.

I see a couple years like that as money comes off the books and the Cubs focus the organization on the new direction and hopefully start seeing a better pipeline of kids coming up.
 
I dont think ownership wants a 3-5 year rebuild, i think they want a 2-3 year rebuild.
That's a "best case" scenario, imo, and assumes the core of WC/AR/JB/KH stay with the club.

I guess it's possible.

And I don't see Bryant as a Cub in two years.
 
That's a "best case" scenario, imo, and assumes the core of WC/AR/JB/KH stay with the club.

I guess it's possible.

And I don't see Bryant as a Cub in two years.

It doesn't seem likely, especially if the two sides don't ink an extension in advance of the arbitrator's ruling. I just want to get a ruling on that so that the Cubs know what they have in terms of a trade chip. He'll draw interest and real return, whether in the offseason or at the deadline. Additionally, dealing him would free up another chunk of cash. He's estimated to be up around $18M this year and if the Cubs keep control in 2021, he'll surely be higher than that.

I'm not sure I'd even assume Contreras as part of the core. He's another tradable piece with a capable Vic Caratini on the roster and Miguel Amaya looking like a good prospect in the minors.

The Cubs clearly need to make some decisions. They have an aging pitching staff and will be leaning very heavily on Hendricks and Yu Darvish, who is getting older in his own right, but sure looked good the 2nd half of this season. Q will be Q - an inning-eating 3/4 starter. Hopefully Lester can find enough to pitch like a 3/4 (at least he's cheaper now, since his contract was front-loaded) and then hopefully Chatwood, Graveman or Alzolay or a relatively cheap FA (or someone included in a trade) can fill out the 5th spot. A bullpen can be rebuilt quickly - plenty of teams have shown that over the years, including the Cubs. I'd actually rather the Cubs get someone other than Chatwood in to complete the rotation, I think he could be a pretty solid set-up guy, or even closer if Kimbrel doesn't hold down the job.

It's going to be an interesting winter. There's already talk of Lindor and Betts being on the market and if the Dodgers are as interested in Lindor as it appears, that could make Cory Seager available. Could be a lot of cascading moves from there.
 
It doesn't seem likely, especially if the two sides don't ink an extension in advance of the arbitrator's ruling. I just want to get a ruling on that so that the Cubs know what they have in terms of a trade chip. He'll draw interest and real return, whether in the offseason or at the deadline. Additionally, dealing him would free up another chunk of cash. He's estimated to be up around $18M this year and if the Cubs keep control in 2021, he'll surely be higher than that.

I'm not sure I'd even assume Contreras as part of the core. He's another tradable piece with a capable Vic Caratini on the roster and Miguel Amaya looking like a good prospect in the minors.

The Cubs clearly need to make some decisions. They have an aging pitching staff and will be leaning very heavily on Hendricks and Yu Darvish, who is getting older in his own right, but sure looked good the 2nd half of this season. Q will be Q - an inning-eating 3/4 starter. Hopefully Lester can find enough to pitch like a 3/4 (at least he's cheaper now, since his contract was front-loaded) and then hopefully Chatwood, Graveman or Alzolay or a relatively cheap FA (or someone included in a trade) can fill out the 5th spot. A bullpen can be rebuilt quickly - plenty of teams have shown that over the years, including the Cubs. I'd actually rather the Cubs get someone other than Chatwood in to complete the rotation, I think he could be a pretty solid set-up guy, or even closer if Kimbrel doesn't hold down the job.

It's going to be an interesting winter. There's already talk of Lindor and Betts being on the market and if the Dodgers are as interested in Lindor as it appears, that could make Cory Seager available. Could be a lot of cascading moves from there.

I was just going to say to Mitch I don’t see Bryant or Contreras on the team in 2020.
 
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It's been the Cardinal Way for decades. ;)
25663768._SY475_.jpg

19 winning seasons in the last 20. 6 playoff appearances in the last 9 years, I believe...
 
I am more confident than many of you are. The Cubs don't need a complete tear down and rebuild, they have pieces to where they can retool on the fly. If they make the right moves, get the right team chemistry, and have the right leadership, a division winning playoff team is definitely possible.

After 2018 who would have thought the Minnesota Twins would have the 2019 they did? After the first 45 games of the season how many of you had the Nationals winning the WS? It can be done.
 
Then don't mention the Cardinals in your cloistered little Cub thread, otherwise you're just inviting trouble, big trouble...
They'll all pissed. Every single one of them. Looking for excuses and jealous of other franchises.

We're gonna hear about the 2016 season until we die.

St. Theo and Bishop Jed will lead them back to the Promised Land.:rolleyes:
 

I think many of these decisions will be fairly easy.
  • Quintana is a no-brainer. While he's not all we hoped he'd be when Theo paid for him with Cease and Jimenez, you can't get a 3/4 type who will eat the innings he eats for the $10.5M the Cubs would pay him in 2020, so you definitely exercise the club option and then he's both a piece of the rotation and a potential trade chip if someone wants a relatively cheap arm.
  • Morrow is also a no-brainer. If I'm reading his contract info correctly, the Cubs can pay him $3M to buy out the option or $12M to sit on the DL all season. I'd save the money and move on unless he's had some miracle recovery in the past 2 months.
  • Holland is probably a guy you let walk. He's a lefty specialist heading into a year with a 3-batter minimum for relievers. He is cheap, though. He would be set to make $6.5M, but the Giants are paying $6M of it, so if the Cubs were to keep him, he'd only hit their luxury tax cap for $500k.
  • I'd probably keep Phelps. He can be a useful arm and he only costs $1M.
  • I'd let Barnette and his $3M price tag go, but I'd be tempted to keep Graveman as potential starter depth after they paid him to rehab for a year. He costs $3M, which isn't unreasonable. Graveman is pretty unlikely to be a savior, but if he can give you some long bullpen outings or battle for that 5th/6th starter spot, he could be worth it.
 
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FWIW I believe the cubs need better player development but it’s worth noting the nats won with the oldest roster and the least homegrown players.
 
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FWIW I believe the cubs need better player development but it’s worth noting the nats won with the oldest roster and the least homegrown players.

Just as has been the case throughout baseball history, there will never be a single way to win. Teams have won spending a ton of money. Teams have one through player development. Teams have won because of ace-level starting pitching. Teams have won because they have the best offense. Teams have won because of their bullpen. Etc., etc., etc.

The player development situation is important because it allows you to be most efficient with your financial resources and it's effectively the business continuity/disaster recovery plan for the organization. If you can fill a roster with cost-controlled young talent, that's outstanding, but those guys can be trade bait as well....plus, if you can fill a handful of positions cheaply, then you can afford to go spend huge money on a couple truly elite players.

What burned the Cubs is that they had their run of early draft picks and did pretty well with that (and flipped some vets into good young players like Arrieta, Strop, Hendricks, Russell, Rizzo), but when some guys stagnated in their development and the bulk of the high-end pieces of the pipeline were dealt in a small handful of deals, they were left with no depth. There were no cheap arms to come up and fill the 5 spot when Darvish was hurt and Chatwood wasn't effective. They haven't had a decent string of bullpen filler arms at the AAA level. All of which puts more burden on spending and FA pickups when they've already been carrying dead or relatively dead money on Heyward, Chatwood, Morrow, Darvish (1st year, he earned his keep last year).

The Cubs don't necessarily have to have an elite farm system (though that would certainly be nice). It's not as critical as it is for teams like the Twins, Padres and Rays, but they can't be living in the bottom 5th of MLB. If they can get to a point where they're developing talent well enough to hang in the upper half of baseball, they should generally have enough talent scattered around to always have some top 100 guys and some organizational depth. That would mean that in any given year, they have some trade chips and the ability to supplement the ML roster with a couple kids. You'll always have some slight ebbs and flows where maybe you have a particularly good draft or two or fall back a bit when 2-3 top prospects hit the bigs or are traded around the same time, but if the solid base is there, they shouldn't stay in the lower third for long.
 
Since 2010, the SF Giants won the World Series 3 times
and the Boston Red Sox have won it 2 times. Of course
during this past decade the Chicago Cubs won it in 2016.

The "window of opportunity" for the Cubs "dynasty" has
passed. 2017, 2018, and 2019 are now past. Cub players
are now under a new manager in David Ross who will
attempt to ignite them in 2020. The Cubs front office believes
that the players they have simply need to be motivated to
win again by Ross.
 
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