***Official Game of Thrones Season 8 thread***

[theIowaHawk]

Can’t say I quite understand the animosity about Jon not becoming king. I didn’t like the last episode either, it was largely a waste; 4, 5 and 6 should have been one episode, albeit along one.

But the show, books never appeared to be about destiny, no matter how many times it was claimed in the stories. Whenever someone’s destiny was coming true, they died, or their family did, or something worse. Lots of tales-of-old, predictions and saviors were made during the books and show only to prove fated otherwise.

I would have found it rather a cop-out had Jon been king. With what army? The Unsullied and Doethraki were going to kneel? The other armies would just blindly follow him knowing what he did? On top of him not even wanting it? It was always set to become a joint decision, the only purpose of the last episode in my mind was to tease the watchers about wanting to know who’d be chosen. Take your pick, imo, because it didn’t matter, the show was over.

Jon got shafted throughout the series, along with dozens of other characters. I don’t get the “he deserved better” thoughts.

Could it have wrapped up better? Sure, but it’s main problem was that it was ending on an ending, which is unrealistic. Therefore choices had to be made. If Jon was King, I’d scoff at the reasons I posted above, if Arya did it’d be scoffing at several reasons including being 4th in line of Starks with no pedigree. I actually think the best would have been the simplest. The Mad Queen lives, Jon sends himself to the wall, Tyrion flame-broiled, the Starks withdraw and rebel, and the wheel keeps turning.

 

[lucas80]

Not linking, but I read an article today in which one of the writers said the original plan was for Ser Jorah to live, and one of the scenes at the end of the series would be Jorah, Jon, and Tormund walking north of the wall. But, there were too many plot questions as to how they'd deal with him and Dany as she went nuts. So, they killed him.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Not linking, but I read an article today in which one of the writers said the original plan was for Ser Jorah to live, and one of the scenes at the end of the series would be Jorah, Jon, and Tormund walking north of the wall. But, there were too many plot questions as to how they'd deal with him and Dany as she went nuts. So, they killed him.

Makes sense. Those who followed her were sincerely devoted, but devoted because of her ruling nature, caring for the common man. The mad queen broke all of that. What would Jorah do with a dead, mad queen hell Bent on global domination. I think he would have killed Jon and went to the wall. Basically the same ending.

 

[pezhawk]

Makes sense. Those who followed her were sincerely devoted, but devoted because of her ruling nature, caring for the common man. The mad queen broke all of that. What would Jorah do with a dead, mad queen hell Bent on global domination. I think he would have killed Jon and went to the wall. Basically the same ending.

I'm not sure she really went ''full rage mad" in the show, she was consistent in the killing of bad people, her judgement of freeing people got skewed, Jon saw that, but, feel they told that mad queen story line very, very poorly...basically she snapped because her interrupter was executed...due to her poor decision...another thing they rushed if they were going for shit-house rat crazy person.

 

[LesClaypool]

I'm not sure she really went ''full rage mad" in the show, she was consistent in the killing of bad people, her judgement of freeing people got skewed, Jon saw that, but, feel they told that mad queen story line very, very poorly...basically she snapped because her interrupter was executed...due to her poor decision...another thing they rushed if they were going for shit-house rat crazy person.

She snapped b/c Jon spurned her.

 

[Tenacious E]

She snapped b/c Jon spurned her.

Agreed. She was rational right up until they had their awkward moment and then she said something to the effect of all right, let it be fear then.

 

[noleclone2]

Looking back, having rewatched the last season, it remains an extreme disappointment. And it is because it was way too rushed. Heck, if anything, as Hollywood often loves to do, it should have been extra long or even two seasons. There were some great moments and scenes, but 20 minutes of extra cgi bloat for a few episodes does not offset there were but 6 episodes to wrap up AND significantly advance the plot. One episode was reunion, one episode was a “drink we going to die” fest, two episodes were CGI heavy war and battle. Leaving a mere two episodes ( 4 and 6) to tie up and advance the story to a crazy ending. That’s how you end up with laughable plot holes or unbelievable plot narratives. And why there was no connection often to what characters did... in the haste to get to the end, the story broke down. I have no problems with Dany going mad and Jon not sitting as king, but the way it unfolded and was told, was terrible.

Biggest issues mostly due to haste:

-The night king and all under him are defeated in one battle in one episode. This series from the opening scene was about this threat and conflict as being the overall number one issue. So they have it all over with in one battle in one episode. I loved what Arya did, but it was too easy. The CGI was too much, too dark. At some points the enemy is depicted as too overwhelming as they dispatch the Dothraki with ease and a 10 foot wall of them runs to Winterfell, at other times just a few can hold them off.

-Jamie’s story arc is ruined. He decides to Knight Brienne, bed her, and then decide to go running back to Cersei to not kill her but really save and comfort her? And don’t get me started on the contrived Euron meeting. Terrible.

Dany may have always been destined to go mad but they screwed it up, likely out of desire to shock when it happened I suppose. But there was very little screen time devoted to her spiral from being victorious but lonely queen beginning in four to her burning tens of thousands of women and children in middle of freaking episode 5 a perfect example of why 2 more episodes here were needed. The bells thing was stupid and makes no sense. Just a silly plot device to make people say “oh she is a bad person” since if she just went in like that from beginning, nobody would have seen her as deserving death. Instead she holds in check and THEN decides to do go mad is just more example to rush and justify her death. An episode 9-10 could have shown this instead. Prime example was her speech afterwards from the best part of final episode. More of her becoming horrible and her fanatic details on planning what she would have done next would have better explained Jon killing her.

Bron - one of the best characters completely wasted. And ruined

Tyrion - other than his great scene with Jamie, just a brooding waste.

Jon - a laughable waste. Not one good scene. Lines probably were less than 100 all total. Varys even gets word out he is true heir, he kills the greatest threat to Westeros and they exile him, because she was their queen (wat).

Bran - barely given any screen time or lines , hates life, and decides yes thank you, he would love to be king. After all, he helped get rid of all the competition!

Scorpions - the stupidity and contrived nature of GOT season 8 best personified.

 

[TennNole17]

agree 100% with all the above. Especially the Night King arc. 8 seasons and they all die with one stab? Womp.

 

[Tenacious E]

agree 100% with all the above. Especially the Night King arc. 8 seasons and they all die with one stab? Womp.

Of all the criticism of season 8, that is one thing I'm okay with. The classic cutting of the head off the snake.

 

[theIowaHawk]

I'm not sure she really went ''full rage mad" in the show, she was consistent in the killing of bad people, her judgement of freeing people got skewed, Jon saw that, but, feel they told that mad queen story line very, very poorly...basically she snapped because her interrupter was executed...due to her poor decision...another thing they rushed if they were going for shit-house rat crazy person.

Yeah, I don’t see that as reason she snapped. She had wanted to burn Kings Landing in strategy meetings before the execution. Her father wanted to burn it and the people inside, she succeeded. If that wasn’t full rage mad, what is?

Tyrion our it best, his family was rife with angry, evil people, yet she killed more in one afternoon than all Lannister bad guys combined in their lifetime. Wasn’t it roughly a million people in those walls?

She dropped the A-bomb after Japan surrendered. Actually, in that context she may have killed 5x as many as our A-bombs.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Of all the criticism of season 8, that is one thing I'm okay with. The classic cutting of the head off the snake.

Yeah, it is a fitting trope that has lasted for at least a century. Dracula the most famous example. How else were they going to kill what can’t die and is resurrected after battle?

Actually, that was the only thing that bothered me about that episode. Maybe someone can remed that for me. They use dragonglass to kill them by the thousands, yet it appeared he just rose them up once again at the end.

 

[Tenacious E]

Yeah, I don’t see that as reason she snapped. She had wanted to burn Kings Landing in strategy meetings before the execution. Her father wanted to burn it and the people inside, she succeeded. If that wasn’t full rage mad, what is?

Tyrion our it best, his family was rife with angry, evil people, yet she killed more in one afternoon than all Lannister bad guys combined in their lifetime. Wasn’t it roughly a million people in those walls?

She dropped the A-bomb after Japan surrendered. Actually, in that context she may have killed 5x as many as our A-bombs.

I think she snapped because she felt jilted by the people she was intent on "freeing" and ruling rebuking her (in her eyes), and jilted by Jon. She needed to remove those unwilling to be ruled (in her eyes) root and stem.

 

[Tenacious E]

Yeah, it is a fitting trope that has lasted for at least a century. Dracula the most famous example. How else were they going to kill what can’t die and is resurrected after battle?

Actually, that was the only thing that bothered me about that episode. Maybe someone can remed that for me. They use dragonglass to kill them by the thousands, yet it appeared he just rose them up once again at the end.

I think those were fresh kills that he resurrected/made into zombies. Otherwise, what a hopeless fight if he can just keep re-animating the same corpse.

 

[theIowaHawk]

agree 100% with all the above. Especially the Night King arc. 8 seasons and they all die with one stab? Womp.

Also, it wasn’t really 8 seasons of build up with the NK, only the last few seasons, iirc. Even then I don’t think they ever portrayed him as invincible. His power was in being very strong, but more so in his hordes. They killed several wights on their own. Shit, Tarley killed one. The danger was always in the army, not just their king.

That was the purpose of Bran’s chess pieces, getting him near-alone away from his army. And the killer was built up far more than he ever was.

 

[theIowaHawk]

I think she snapped because she felt jilted by the people she was intent on "freeing" and ruling rebuking her (in her eyes), and jilted by Jon. She needed to remove those unwilling to be ruled (in her eyes) root and stem.

Ok? You seem to agree she snapped. It seems unquestionable that what she did after, and admitted to planning in the future was to kill millions.

 

[theIowaHawk]

I think those were fresh kills that he resurrected/made into zombies. Otherwise, what a hopeless fight if he can just keep re-animating the same corpse.

That is what I assumed would happen, like at hardhomme, but it didn’t appear to just be new dead. Then again, it was so dark, who knows what I saw. I thought at the time the same as your last line, how hopeless.

 

[Tenacious E]

Ok? You seem to agree she snapped. It seems unquestionable that what she did after, and admitted to planning in the future was to kill millions.

Well it is hard to say, which is a product of how rushed this season was. Was she insane and acting without reasons? Maybe. Was she calculating and willing to commit genocide as a rational act? Maybe. I've read that the directors/producers say that up to the point where Dany was perched on the roof top right before she destroyed everything she didn't know what she was going to do. So it would seem that they didn't know or were willing to communicate whether she was insane or a monster either and left the audience to speculate and engage in conjecture.

 

[theIowaHawk]

Well it is hard to say, which is a product of how rushed this season was. Was she insane and acting without reasons? Maybe. Was she calculating and willing to commit genocide as a rational act? Maybe. I've read that the directors/producers say that up to the point where Dany was perched on the roof top right before she destroyed everything she didn't know what she was going to do. So it would seem that they didn't know or willing to communicate whether she was insane or a monster either and left the audience to speculate and engage in conjecture.

I don’t think she had to act without reason, insanity can have reason. I think the show portrayed it wasn’t insanity, it was her underlying disposition. And the bigger question of whether genocide can be a rational act. Obviously Jon, Tyrion, and Varys didn’t believe so.

Her “insanity” during destruction carried over to a very rational discussion with Jon, in which she wanted to continue warring and killing, until she conquered the whole world.

I think this is seen best through Varys. Most wanted a just ruler, meaning they were fine being ruled, simply wanting to be free from fear and persecution. He backed Jon because he didn’t want the role, Tyrion backed Bran for similar reason.

Dany didn’t want to break any wheel, she wanted to break the previous wheel, and then rule over it herself. She wouldn’t have let the North secede, she would have killed everyone up there given the chance. Sure, she was better than Cersei, better than slaveholders. She, imo, was the continuation of the wheel.

What I liked about its obvious ending, not the episode itself, is that it shows there isn’t a right answer for who should be in charge, who would be a good ruler. Was the Mad King a good ruler up to the end? The rebellion started on a lie and ego. Would it have been better just for Ned and Robert to be executed? Probably. Then Robert was a good King too, even though he ordered murder of babies. Was the religious rule (sparrows?) better than Cersei? For some, not others. Would genocidal Dany be better? Sure, but not for all. It’s a guessing game and wait and see. Varys was wrong day more than he was right.

 

[hif in fairfax]

In the behind the scenes episode I saw a person say they couldn't go on making more seasons because they couldn't make the scenes any bigger, they had maxed out on what they could visually do.

I think they kinda lost their way in having this bigger is better mindset.

they should have invested more time into the story, the cgi was nice and all, but I think most of us liked the earlier seasons where suspense trumped special effects.

Also more boobs would have helped!!!

 

[FSUSarah]

Andrew McClay was just delightful in the documentary.

 

[theIowaHawk]

In the behind the scenes episode I saw a person say they couldn't go on making more seasons because they couldn't make the scenes any bigger, they had maxed out on what they could visually do.

I think they kinda lost their way in having this bigger is better mindset.

they should have invested more time into the story, the cgi was nice and all, but I think most of us liked the earlier seasons where suspense trumped special effects.

Also more boobs would have helped!!!

Agreed, they lost sight of the early seasons.

However, it is the bigger, later seasons that shot it to such popularity. Don’t get me wrong, hugely popular, but on a similar HBO-show scale, until the last few “must watch” seasons according to media.