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Once upon a time...

Bones Malone

Bones Malone

All-Conference
Jan 21, 2019
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Iowa seemingly never lost matches due to conditioning. Never may be a strong a word but the Hawkeyes lost to better wrestlers, lost to better athletes and lost to better tacticians...but Iowa rarely lost because they "ran out of gas". Back in the day, Iowa wrestlers won countless matches on conditioning and mental fortitude alone. Hawks weren't concerned with needing to "pace themselves", other teams perhaps but not the Hawkeyes. Iowa set the tone. Iowa controlled the pace. Watching the B1G special on our coaches brought back great memories of the type of pace/conditioning we saw on the mat in CHA back in the day. Iowa's conditioning was a "given" and Iowa was a "style". As good as we are now and as fun as it was Friday night...man, how I miss those days. Bonus points were a priority. Iowa wrestling was f*n/fast/intense. Heck, Iowa is a big reason rule changes were made (at least in my mind) --- specifications were added to regulate mat sizes, shoe laces required to be secured, wrestlers must to work back to the middle, etc.

Friday night, Warner may have gotten beat by a "bow & arrow" (Iowa needs in repertoire) but he could have just as easily lost due to conditioning. I felt PSU may have won 141 because of slightly better conditioning. Kemerer was spent but deservedly so...

"Fatigue makes cowards of us all" - attributed to General Patton & V. Lombardi but just as easily could have been quoted by Gable, Brands or even Carl S. (not Spangler).

I am looking forward to Iowa wrestlers getting healthy and better conditioned, so each can reach their full potential come March.

Go Hawks!
 
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Bones Malone said:
Iowa seemingly never lost matches due to conditioning. Never may be a strong a word but the Hawkeyes lost to better wrestlers, lost to better athletes and lost to better tacticians...but Iowa rarely lost because they "ran out of gas". Back in the day, Iowa wrestlers won countless matches on conditioning and mental fortitude alone. Hawks weren't concerned with needing to "pace themselves", other teams perhaps but not the Hawkeyes. Iowa set the tone. Iowa controlled the pace. Watching the B1G special on our coaches brought back great memories of the type of pace/conditioning we saw on the mat in CHA back in the day. Iowa's conditioning was a "given" and Iowa was a "style". As good as we are now and as fun as it was Friday night...man, how I miss those days. Bonus points were a priority. Iowa wrestling was f*n/fast/intense. Heck, Iowa is a big reason rule changes were made (at least in my mind) --- specifications were added to regulate mat sizes, shoe laces required to be secured, wrestlers must to work back to the middle, etc.

Friday night, Warner may have gotten beat by a "bow & arrow" (Iowa needs in repertoire) but he could have just as easily lost due to conditioning. I felt PSU may have won 141 because of slightly better conditioning. Kemerer was spent but deservedly so...

"Fatigue makes cowards of us all" - attributed to General Patton & V. Lombardi but just as easily could have been quoted by Gable, Brands or even Carl S. (not Spangler).

I am looking forward to Iowa wrestlers getting healthy and better conditioned, so each can reach their full potential come March.

Go Hawks!
Click to expand...
Great post. You forgot the rule change for scholarship athletes. Go psu
 
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Bones Malone said:
Iowa seemingly never lost matches due to conditioning. Never may be a strong a word but the Hawkeyes lost to better wrestlers, lost to better athletes and lost to better tacticians...but Iowa rarely lost because they "ran out of gas". Back in the day, Iowa wrestlers won countless matches on conditioning and mental fortitude alone. Hawks weren't concerned with needing to "pace themselves", other teams perhaps but not the Hawkeyes. Iowa set the tone. Iowa controlled the pace. Watching the B1G special on our coaches brought back great memories of the type of pace/conditioning we saw on the mat in CHA back in the day. Iowa's conditioning was a "given" and Iowa was a "style". As good as we are now and as fun as it was Friday night...man, how I miss those days. Bonus points were a priority. Iowa wrestling was f*n/fast/intense. Heck, Iowa is a big reason rule changes were made (at least in my mind) --- specifications were added to regulate mat sizes, shoe laces required to be secured, wrestlers must to work back to the middle, etc.

Friday night, Warner may have gotten beat by a "bow & arrow" (Iowa needs in repertoire) but he could have just as easily lost due to conditioning. I felt PSU may have won 141 because of slightly better conditioning. Kemerer was spent but deservedly so...

"Fatigue makes cowards of us all" - attributed to General Patton & V. Lombardi but just as easily could have been quoted by Gable, Brands or even Carl S. (not Spangler).

I am looking forward to Iowa wrestlers getting healthy and better conditioned, so each can reach their full potential come March.

Go Hawks!
Click to expand...
To paraphrase a classic movie line, Livin in the past ain't no way to make a living.

I have no doubt that the Iowa wrestlers work their asses off in the room but it's not 1982 anymore. Teams train different than they used to. Wrestlers are more athletic than they used to be. Scoring is more difficult, way more scrambling. Stalling isn't called the way it used to be called.

You can lament all you want about the old days but there were plenty of matches where we controlled the pace and the action and were rewarded with 20+ second scrambles, ankle grabbing and almost zero stall calls.
DeSanto outshot his RBY 8-1? 10-1? He got one stall call. ONE!!! In the old days there might have been 2 or 3 calls in his favor but that's not the way it's called anymore and those stalemates ate up clock.

Berge should have been stalled out but Angel chose to keep him in the match even though Berge had no desire to be there.

BTW, I think you over-state how many matches PSU won because we were "tired". I'll give you one, Warner, and we all know what Warner is by now. That cat ain't changing his stripes.

You mention Jaydin but didn't he score an amazing late TD and rideout to tie the match? He took a shot in OT and didn't execute (nevermind that people have been chiding him all year for not shooting enough).

Kem? Tired? IDK but the dude was wrestling a STUD while sporting a massive shoulder wrap and a bum hand. He's basically held together with duct tape and bailing wire right now so I'm not questioning anything about his effort...Oh and he WON THE DAMN MATCH!!!
 
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dtripp26 said:
To paraphrase a classic movie line, Livin in the past ain't no way to make a living.

I have no doubt that the Iowa wrestlers work their asses off in the room but it's not 1982 anymore. Teams train different than they used to. Wrestlers are more athletic than they used to be. Scoring is more difficult, way more scrambling. Stalling isn't called the way it used to be called.

You can lament all you want about the old days but there were plenty of matches where we controlled the pace and the action and were rewarded with 20+ second scrambles, ankle grabbing and almost zero stall calls.
DeSanto outshot his RBY 8-1? 10-1? He got one stall call. ONE!!! In the old days there might have been 2 or 3 calls in his favor but that's not the way it's called anymore and those stalemates ate up clock.

Berge should have been stalled out but Angel chose to keep him in the match even though Berge had no desire to be there.

BTW, I think you over-state how many matches PSU won because we were "tired". I'll give you one, Warner, and we all know what Warner is by now. That cat ain't changing his stripes.

You mention Jaydin but didn't he score an amazing late TD and rideout to tie the match? He took a shot in OT and didn't execute (nevermind that people have been chiding him all year for not shooting enough).

Kem? Tired? IDK but the dude was wrestling a STUD while sporting a massive shoulder wrap and a bum hand. He's basically held together with duct tape and bailing wire right now so I'm not questioning anything about his effort...Oh and he WON THE DAMN MATCH!!!
Click to expand...
In regards to desanto - in order to have a gripe about rby - desanto has to finish one of those shots. Plenty of them finished in the middle of the mat stalemated - I’m sure terry will get desanto on track there.
 
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dtripp26 said:
To paraphrase a classic movie line, Livin in the past ain't no way to make a living.

I have no doubt that the Iowa wrestlers work their asses off in the room but it's not 1982 anymore. Teams train different than they used to. Wrestlers are more athletic than they used to be. Scoring is more difficult, way more scrambling. Stalling isn't called the way it used to be called.

You can lament all you want about the old days but there were plenty of matches where we controlled the pace and the action and were rewarded with 20+ second scrambles, ankle grabbing and almost zero stall calls.
DeSanto outshot his RBY 8-1? 10-1? He got one stall call. ONE!!! In the old days there might have been 2 or 3 calls in his favor but that's not the way it's called anymore and those stalemates ate up clock.

Berge should have been stalled out but Angel chose to keep him in the match even though Berge had no desire to be there.

BTW, I think you over-state how many matches PSU won because we were "tired". I'll give you one, Warner, and we all know what Warner is by now. That cat ain't changing his stripes.

You mention Jaydin but didn't he score an amazing late TD and rideout to tie the match? He took a shot in OT and didn't execute (nevermind that people have been chiding him all year for not shooting enough).

Kem? Tired? IDK but the dude was wrestling a STUD while sporting a massive shoulder wrap and a bum hand. He's basically held together with duct tape and bailing wire right now so I'm not questioning anything about his effort...Oh and he WON THE DAMN MATCH!!!
Click to expand...
The better movie line is "dying ain't much of a livin' boy". Outlaw Josie Wales (IMHO of course).

I do think Jaydin was spent, but already gave him props for taking the match to SV late. The want to was there, but he was gassed and IMO he took that shot and didn't have anything left when it didn't work. If he takes that same shot in the 1st period, he may or may not finish, but I don't think he gets scored on. That's my opinion right or wrong.

Agree the stalling calls are few and far between, so the attack rate doesn't have quite the same effect as it once did. Gable/Iowa wrote the book on conditioning, and others have since read it so that gap has narrowed.

The one good thing they did do is implement the danger rule (should just call it the Jesse Delgado rule, but I digress). We just have to make those leg attacks get to the danger point if we don't finish clean. None of it is easy.
 
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Max Dean looks like he’s on a whole other level with his conditioning. Beat Brucki and Warner in the third after losing the first two periods to each. I don’t want to say what he reminds me of so I won’t. I’ll also add he’s not only outconditioning very good athletes he’s the smaller guy who is doing it and he’s not looking tired at all at the end of those matches. Maybe getting some coaching science from Edgar Allen Poe?
 
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dtripp26 said:
Jim Gibbons NO SH!T

What other movie line would I have been paraphrasing?
Click to expand...
No idea, there's a lot of movies and a lot of movie lines ......... Try getting within 100 miles of the actual line and then there's no confusion. But go ahead and blame me for a very simple statement in which I in no way, shape or form disparaged you about it. Good day.
 
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dtripp26 said:
To paraphrase a classic movie line, Livin in the past ain't no way to make a living.

I have no doubt that the Iowa wrestlers work their asses off in the room but it's not 1982 anymore. Teams train different than they used to. Wrestlers are more athletic than they used to be. Scoring is more difficult, way more scrambling. Stalling isn't called the way it used to be called.

You can lament all you want about the old days but there were plenty of matches where we controlled the pace and the action and were rewarded with 20+ second scrambles, ankle grabbing and almost zero stall calls.
DeSanto outshot his RBY 8-1? 10-1? He got one stall call. ONE!!! In the old days there might have been 2 or 3 calls in his favor but that's not the way it's called anymore and those stalemates ate up clock.

Berge should have been stalled out but Angel chose to keep him in the match even though Berge had no desire to be there.

BTW, I think you over-state how many matches PSU won because we were "tired". I'll give you one, Warner, and we all know what Warner is by now. That cat ain't changing his stripes.

You mention Jaydin but didn't he score an amazing late TD and rideout to tie the match? He took a shot in OT and didn't execute (nevermind that people have been chiding him all year for not shooting enough).

Kem? Tired? IDK but the dude was wrestling a STUD while sporting a massive shoulder wrap and a bum hand. He's basically held together with duct tape and bailing wire right now so I'm not questioning anything about his effort...Oh and he WON THE DAMN MATCH!!!
Click to expand...
Thanks for your perspective. You make some great points.

Jaydin’s conditioning has been great in the past and can’t dispute the fact he scored a late takedown. So, won’t knock him too badly but as 23 noted, he was spent at the end. I want nothing more that to see Jaydin get his championship, for himself as much as the team. He’s appeared lackadaisical at times this season, so hope to see more focus. Did not question Kem’s effort. We need to fight for every team point come tournament time. Hope to see more bonus, so we’re able to capitalize when other teams stumble. RBY showed 30 sec of offense & won. Austin must find a way to finish against him if he hopes to stand on top of the podium. It’s clear we can improve our overall conditioning & I have confidence we will.
 
As much as a loss stinks, it's f'ing January. Brands teams have had plenty of dominant January's and B10s, only to flame out at the NCAA's. Adjustments to be made to B10's, adjustments after. March is the only thing thast really matters.

PSU can poke at our super seniors all they want, but this is the last hurrah for those guys. They will show up.
 
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Tcalumet said:
In regards to desanto - in order to have a gripe about rby - desanto has to finish one of those shots. Plenty of them finished in the middle of the mat stalemated - I’m sure terry will get desanto on track there.
Click to expand...
Keeps getting his head stuck. Hopefully he can fix it.
 
Bones Malone said:
Thanks for your perspective. You make some great points.

Jaydin’s conditioning has been great in the past and can’t dispute the fact he scored a late takedown.
Click to expand...
How to mislead with statistics: Eierman is 0-3 in his career in overtime matches, so how great is his conditioning?

(misleading because those losses were to Nick Lee and Yianni)
 
Due to how much takedown defense has evolved, and how rules are enforced, I don't think the strategies of the past are viable anymore. All sports evolve, and to be the best, you have to be quick to innovate.
 
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Strength and conditioning have evolved immensely at the same time the rules about dropping weight have stiffened for the health of athletes. Combine those with coaching having improved around the country, (thanks to Gable and others) and the athletes are closer to being in optimal shape as each other between the major programs. With medical personnel having way more to say about injuries, it further tilts where athletes are at during certain times of the season/ off season.
 
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An aside...I watched about 5 Ironside matches on YouTube last night when I was supposed to be burping a baby. I saw him shoot more times in a single match than Iowa and PSU collectively shot in the entire dual. Man, oh, man, you didn't want to go into the 3rd period with him if you weren't up by at least 8.
 
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Growing up in the 80's watching IPT duals Iowa would always win the 3rd period. If the match was close, they would break their gassed opponent late in almost every weight. It was like the Hawk wrestlers would build as the match went on, not fade. The rest of D1 has caught up to us on the conditioning side, no doubt. Those old matches with some of the relentless Iowa wrestlers are as good as it gets for the die hard wrestling fans!
 
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I do wonder with the sport probably being a bit more popular or at least more diverse in the schools that field good teams if conditioning is going to be enough anymore. Guys that are naturally better athletes with better footwork, reaction time, etc are going to be hard to gas out. As an example how would you coach any other HW to beat Gable Steveson? Where do you start? What's he weakness? Maybe his top game? In neutral he looks like a black hole to me if you get to close to him he will suck you in and there is not much escape.
 
Redm18 said:
I do wonder with the sport probably being a bit more popular or at least more diverse in the schools that field good teams if conditioning is going to be enough anymore. Guys that are naturally better athletes with better footwork, reaction time, etc are going to be hard to gas out. As an example how would you coach any other HW to beat Gable Steveson? Where do you start? What's he weakness? Maybe his top game? In neutral he looks like a black hole to me if you get to close to him he will suck you in and there is not much escape.
Click to expand...
Gable Stevenson is just a great athlete. Fast twitch fiber guy all the way with Type IIA being dominate.
Really fun athletes to work with as they have explosive strength that is unmatched for the most part. Gable had very good coaching to go with that and also just has the "it" factor. In my opinion that factor is just great feel for where your body is in a three dimensional aspect. Your ? about where to attack him would be really hard to answer for even the best coaches. He has such a calm demeanor. I enjoy watching him compete.
 
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MVPFAN said:
PSU's Treigning is the key. 😉
Click to expand...
I’ve entertained those thoughts, I do with most sports and I want to add something to that discussion. The testing used by the NCAA is the same for everyone…and that should matter because it is an agreed upon control, as flawed and imperfect as it is.

Are there better controls out there? Yes. WADA, USADA, and biological passports will all pick up PED’s the NCAA’s test can’t detect. But still, there are ways to beat those tests albeit you’ll need a stronger science background.

At one point in the 90’s pro cyclists in Europe started using a drug called EPO. U.S. teams not using EPO quickly found out they couldn’t compete without it and decisions were made; Lance Armstrong called it “Rocket Fuel.”

Basically EPO allows your blood to carry more oxygen, meaning less fatigue under load. At the time there was no way of testing for it so its use flourished. The testers eventually developed a strategy to manage its abuse…by measuring a person’s hematocrit (the percent of oxygen carrying cells in the blood). Adults have a normal range of 42-48% and you had to be under 50% to be allowed to race. So if you used EPO to develop your blood capacity from your normal 45% to say 49.9% you’d have a roughly 10% greater load capacity and you were legal to race.

In a sport where a 1% edge was always the difference between winning and losing 10% was huge e.g. Rocket Fuel. And racing went on. My point is, they couldn’t eradicate its use so they controlled it as best they could and people made their choices.

NCAA has its controls e.g. drug tests, hourly practice limits, seasonal limits, descent plans, etc… it is what it is and places like Treigning Lab are always going to exist. Shit, I might give em a call, my hematocrit was 42% last spring, at the lower level of normal. Haha. But let’s say I do call and get what I want…how much? $20k? Gotta remember when pro cycling was inundated with EPO use guys were making million dollar salaries so $20k is nothing to them. College sports should be different, maybe not. 🤷🏽‍♂️
 
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What ever happened to the poster on here named Josey Wales?

he was one of my favorites on here and a great dude. (met him in person a couple times)
 
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Iowa needs better work at getting angles and in scrambling positions for the most part. It seems like a lot of the team everything is straight forward. That might have worked 20-30 years ago. But with the increase scrambling ability of most guys, straight on shots are stopped more often than not.
 
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herkyihawks said:
Iowa needs better work at getting angles and in scrambling positions for the most part. It seems like a lot of the team everything is straight forward. That might have worked 20-30 years ago. But with the increase scrambling ability of most guys, straight on shots are stopped more often than not.
Click to expand...
Angles and cutting the corner are great so don't misconstrue this. Straight on shots are also quick and dirty when you come up immediately and don't allow your head to be crushed. Iowa has guys that tend to get in deep like Kem, but don't have the strength to suck that leg in like he does. Kem can pull it in then cut the corner or just plain bring the leg up high. Straight on is okay for a blast double, but you have to wrap both legs/ ankles and keep driving through. Just a difference in guys styles. The top three or four guys can stop or slow down Austin's carry, the rest have not been able to.
 
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Section 25 i think you're right (i said similar on show yesterday)

however i don't think that this is an issue that's contained to iowa or any one team. imo, it is THE key factor in separating the best from the rest and/or the elite from the very good.
 
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Honestly with the way Iowa looked vs tOSU and the way PSU looked vs Michigan, I was afraid the Hawks may get blown out. I doubled down on that when Ayala couldn’t go. I was extremely impressed with the fight the Hawks showed.
125- Say what you want about Ybarra but he’s our 3rd stringer, a freshman and was up against a senior that was 4th in the country last year. Ybarra’s job was to keep it close and he did that for 2 periods.
133- ADS showed a hell of a lot of grit. His hand is obviously not right, how RBY didn’t get dinged for stalking multiple times is beyond me. Last dual RBY walked away with 6, getting beat by a point by the National Champ is an improvement.
141- Best Jaydin has looked all season. I thought Lee might dominate him, but Jaydin was able to take the National Champ to OT, took a risky shot and it didn’t pay off.
149- Murin is looking like the best version of himself. Taking out Thomas, representing himself well vs Sasso and really taking it to Bartlett hopefully has his confidence sky high.
157- Kaleb has certainly had a rough year. Showcased his amazing ability to put a tough ride on guys when he needs to, but we need more offense.
165- Best Bull has looked this year. I’ve never seen Berge mentally broken before. He wanted no part of Bulls pace. Perhaps that loss awakened a fire in him?
174- Kemerer looked fantastic, some of the best defense I’ve seen all year. Star is unbelievably talented and that was one of the most exciting matches I’ve watched all year.
184- This one coulda got away from us, but kudos to Abe for hanging tough vs another National Champ. Abe has the skills to get on the stand and has the ability to hit big moves for bonus.
197- JWar is who is. Looked great for 6, then awful for 1. Dean is an amazing pickup for PSU.
Hwt- Big Ton is really coming into his own. Kerk tactically picked apart Paris, and Tony just went with brute strength. When Gables gone Tony can definitely get to the top of the podium.

I feel a lot better about March than I did Friday afternoon. (Unless we sh*t the bed vs Wisconsin, then I take it all back)
 
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98lberEating2Lunches said:
But if light cannot escape it, how can you see someone who looks like one?
Click to expand...
It's a simile, and we get the drift. People like to use black holes to describe stuff all the time, where things go in, but nothing comes out. We can't see black holes directly. We "see" their energetic effects on the surrounding material, but not so much in the visible spectrum.
 
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smalls103 said:
What ever happened to the poster on here named Josey Wales?

he was one of my favorites on here and a great dude. (met him in person a couple times)
Click to expand...
Definitely a great dude. I don't think he's on here much anymore. I'll shoot him a text, letting him know of the compliment you are giving him.
 
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