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Open Letter to Big Ten College Announcers

el dub

HB Legend
Nov 2, 2005
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First, I don't expect any of the college announcers to actually read this thread. If they did, their final product probably wouldn't end up as blatantly moranic as it consistently is.

Take some time to actually learn a bit about a sport before charging fans for your services. There must be hundreds of old duals one could watch and listen to the pros like Gibbons and Gable and Ironside and Grace, etc.

For instance a wrestler can't "reverse for a takedown," no matter how close his opponent was to being behind him in the neutral position. It's either a reversal or takedown. Since no takedown had been awarded, that what it was.

And leading the league in escapes isn't a good thing. That's usually called catch and release. The guy doing the catching is earning two points for a takedown compared to every one point for an escape. Do the math. The guy on the roster with the most escapes probably has one of the worse records on the team.

As far as the back points awarded to Cory Clark… They weren't given out at the end of the period at the discretion of the ref. The ref awarded two points for the Iowa guy turning the NW opponent and exposing his back. You, as announcer, should have seen that happen. The ref then doesn't award the points until the wrestler on top releases the hold and starts over. As Clark never released the hold, if he would have exposed his opponents shoulders once again, the most that could have been earned would have been four points. (Not two for the initial exposure the announcer apparently missed and then more for the same hold.) So the ref held off on giving the points until the horn blew ending the period and then awarded the two to Cory. That is the way it works and most any fan with rudimentary knowledge of the sport understands this. If you would have been watching the action you might have noticed the ref count back points and then make a peace sign with one hand pointed away from how body. (As opposed to the peace sign made with fingers pointing straight up and down signifying two points to the scorers table. Rather these two fingers aimed out and down toward the mat keeps track of the points to be awarded in the event that the guy on top eventually releases the grip and doesn't turn the opponent long enough to earn the four points. No discretion involved here.


I highly suggest you take some time to learn a little about a sport before presenting yourself as fit for calling the action to the world on paid programming. As I see it, you folks should be learning the art of announcing and detailing action of sports you already possess a basic knowledge of scoring, terms and rules.

I listened to the 133 and 149 lb bout before turning of the volume. My grandmother might have done a better job and she was a baseball fan at heart.
 
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First, I don't expect any of the college announcers to actually read this thread. If they did, their final product probably wouldn't end up as blatantly moranic as it consistently is.

Take some time to actually learn a bit about a sport before charging fans for your services. There must be hundreds of old duals one could watch and listen to the pros like Gibbons and Gable and Ironside and Grace, etc.

For instance a wrestler can't "reverse for a takedown," no matter how close his opponent was to being behind him. It's either a reversal or takedown. Since no takedown has been awarded, that what it is.

And leading the league in escapes isn't a good thing. That's usually called catch and release.
About 15 minutes ago I told my son, "Listen to this announcer--it's Michael Scott from The Office."
 
I thought the announcers did fine. They knew more than most about the Iowa wrestlers and were very complimentary towards our team. If they read this thread I want them to know our family enjoyed the job they did. We especially loved the amped up enthusiasm during the middle of PR's match.
 
I thought the camera work was very good today. I also thought the enthusiasm by the 2 announcers was really good. The camera crew/production crew did a great job of showing the score and the RT all match - every match.
 
I got quite a few chuckles out of some of the stuff said, basically just the lack of general wrestling knowledge, but you could tell there was effort on both of their parts at least. It would be nice to have a former wrestler or something announce the meets, but as long as I can see the score/time and watch the meet i'm fine with it.
 
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Definitely lots of enthusiasm! There were some gems but nothing of the caliber to overtake the number one position all time, "Illegal fist to the back!"
idk - Clark usually gets called for that 2/3 times every match. not today though - as he was allowed to pin the guy. and i do know you are referring to the PU student union guys, which i think was done as a joke.
 
I hear ya, dub. That said, the pbp guy was, indeed, very enthusiastic, and that was nice to hear, even if over the top and not necessarily corresponding to the action. The color guy was reasonably knowledgeable.

I do agree with dub that part of broadcasting a sporting event is understanding the basics of the sport. These student crews are surely learning a lot about how to broadcast, but I do agree that they should also learn the art of gaining some command of the subject matter. After all, you can be a polished broadcaster, but if you don't know what you're talking about, your smooth delivery isn't much good to the audience.

I generally just get some good chuckles out of the off-the-wall comments that result from knowing very little about wrestling. I thought these kids did reasonably well but agree they should learn the basics of the sport before going on air. Frankly, I'm surprised that the schools don't organize some sort of crash course on the rules of the lesser-known sports.
 
idk - Clark usually gets called for that 2/3 times every match. not today though - as he was allowed to pin the guy. and i do know you are referring to the PU student union guys, which i think was done as a joke.

The "illegal fist to the back" call -- officially the greatest of all time -- was made by a BTN Student U play-by-play guy during a Nebraska home meet about two years ago. It was a broadcasting moment that will live in infamy.
 
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The "illegal fist to the back" call -- officially the greatest of all time -- was made by a BTN Student U play-by-play guy during a Nebraska home meet about two years ago. It was a broadcasting moment that will live in infamy.
I thought it was PSU - but you are right it was nebby v PSU
 
….I do agree that they should also learn the art of gaining some command of the subject matter. After all, you can be a polished broadcaster, but if you don't know what you're talking about, your smooth delivery isn't much good to the audience.

I guess that's what really gets me. Nothing bothers me more than a smooth and confident delivery from someone who has no business calling the action.
 
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I thought it was PSU - but you are right it was nebby v PSU

Dang -- how'd you do that?! Awesome work pulling that up!

For some reason, I can't get the video to play, but I'm hoping it works eventually. It's worth a look for any wrestling fan. Good for a belly laugh!

I do think this is the right meet, but the "illegal fist to the back" doesn't happen in the Ruth match. However, there are some gems in this match, nonetheless. A few of the best little nuggets include:

1. Ruth working a "chicken wing" from the neutral position as Koehn puts in a wizard.

2. Ruth working for a reversal from the top position.

3. Ruth working for a reversal from neutral.

4. A "stallmate" on the edge, in the neutral position.

Even though this match lacks the "illegal fist to the back", it's still worth a good laugh.
 
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I got quite a few chuckles out of some of the stuff said, basically just the lack of general wrestling knowledge, but you could tell there was effort on both of their parts at least. It would be nice to have a former wrestler or something announce the meets, but as long as I can see the score/time and watch the meet i'm fine with it.

I loved how they went nuts on a td in the last 4 matches. It made me chuckle.
 
Tl;dr. I guess on my list of concerns this is basically at the bottom. Wrestling is a niche sport and finding aspiring broadcasters in college with in depth knowledge of the sport and willingness to do it can't be easy.

As for "charging money" they could voice it over with Justin Bieber music and it would be well worth the investment.
 
I have a feeling some announcers are thinking el dub does not deserve the two fingers pointing up, but just the one finger pointing up. Good point though el dub, even though everyone knows that two points are always awarded when a reversal results in a take down. Duh!

That video is awesome! I Don't know if the illegal trip are the attempted chicken wing on a drumstick led to the greater of the two stall mates.
 
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Dang -- how'd you do that?! Awesome work pulling that up!

For some reason, I can't get the video to play, but I'm hoping it works eventually. It's worth a look for any wrestling fan. Good for a belly laugh!

I do think this is the right meet, but the "illegal fist to the back" doesn't happen in the Ruth match. However, there are some gems in this match, nonetheless. A few of the best little nuggets include:

1. Ruth working a "chicken wing" from the neutral position as Koehn puts in a wizard.

2. Ruth working for a reversal from the top position.

3. Ruth working for a reversal from neutral.

4. A "stallmate" on the edge, in the neutral position.

Even though this match lacks the "illegal fist to the back", it's still worth a good laugh.
sorry bro - check out the Alton v Green - that happened later ... circa 10 min point and later (before that it is pretty boring)

 
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Thanks, bp -- great work. It comes right around 11:30. . . . "Manning wants an illegal fist to the back, but he won't get the call." Pure gold, I tell you.

Also funny was that the announcers thought the match was over after the first 30-second ride-out period. But that doesn't hold a candle to the illustrious "illegal fist to the back", the call of calls. Probably second only to "boom goes the dynamite" in the entire history of college sports calls, but certainly the best ever in wrestling.
 
LOL I almost forgot that we live in the time of "Participation Medals for All." Sorry if I offended any with my comments.:rolleyes:
I think most people agree with you - and are not offended by the truth. But - i recall the days of absolute nothing but PBS once or twice a year. I appreciate the video MUCH, MUCH more than anyone knows - and the score actually available for viewing is fantastic. I'll take the crap with the good any day. afterall - i will still watch Iowa football when Beth is the announcer
 
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Thanks, bp -- great work. It comes right around 11:30. . . . "Manning wants an illegal fist to the back, but he won't get the call." Pure gold, I tell you.

Also funny was that the announcers thought the match was over after the first 30-second ride-out period. But that doesn't hold a candle to the illustrious "illegal fist to the back", the call of calls. Probably second only to "boom goes the dynamite" in the entire history of college sports calls, but certainly the best ever in wrestling.

While I will never not Listen to ironside whenever I can I get a little jealous when you guys post things like "the big ten announcer just called the mat return 'another takedown for Clark' "
 
Not sure if you guys are familiar with Screwy Louie Lazerie, but he is a Wrestling historian who frequently fills in for Flo Wrestling and other sites, the guy is a treat to listen to. Knows College and HS wrestling history, and knows every move there is. Plus, he's a scream to listen to.

http://www.flowrestling.org/video/368451-screwy-louie-intro

http://old.flowrestling.org/speaker/2020-Screwy-Louie-Lazzari
Drop that Shane guy, the interviewer. Just because he loves wrestling doesn't mean he knows how to interview. BTW what was it that Gibbons said last year? "No s**t?"
 
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First, I don't expect any of the college announcers to actually read this thread. If they did, their final product probably wouldn't end up as blatantly moranic as it consistently is.

Take some time to actually learn a bit about a sport before charging fans for your services. There must be hundreds of old duals one could watch and listen to the pros like Gibbons and Gable and Ironside and Grace, etc.

For instance a wrestler can't "reverse for a takedown," no matter how close his opponent was to being behind him in the neutral position. It's either a reversal or takedown. Since no takedown had been awarded, that what it was.

And leading the league in escapes isn't a good thing. That's usually called catch and release. The guy doing the catching is earning two points for a takedown compared to every one point for an escape. Do the math. The guy on the roster with the most escapes probably has one of the worse records on the team.

As far as the back points awarded to Cory Clark… They weren't given out at the end of the period at the discretion of the ref. The ref awarded two points for the Iowa guy turning the NW opponent and exposing his back. You, as announcer, should have seen that happen. The ref then doesn't award the points until the wrestler on top releases the hold and starts over. As Clark never released the hold, if he would have exposed his opponents shoulders once again, the most that could have been earned would have been four points. (Not two for the initial exposure the announcer apparently missed and then more for the same hold.) So the ref held off on giving the points until the horn blew ending the period and then awarded the two to Cory. That is the way it works and most any fan with rudimentary knowledge of the sport understands this. If you would have been watching the action you might have noticed the ref count back points and then make a peace sign with one hand pointed away from how body. (As opposed to the peace sign made with fingers pointing straight up and down signifying two points to the scorers table. Rather these two fingers aimed out and down toward the mat keeps track of the points to be awarded in the event that the guy on top eventually releases the grip and doesn't turn the opponent long enough to earn the four points. No discretion involved here.


I highly suggest you take some time to learn a little about a sport before presenting yourself as fit for calling the action to the world on paid programming. As I see it, you folks should be learning the art of announcing and detailing action of sports you already possess a basic knowledge of scoring, terms and rules.

I listened to the 133 and 149 lb bout before turning of the volume. My grandmother might have done a better job and she was a baseball fan at heart.

Do you remember that scene in the movie moneyball when Billy Beane and Ron Washington go to Scott Hettberg (played by Chris Pratt) and they are talking to him about playing first base?

Hatteberg: but I have only ever played catcher

Beane: It’s not that hard, Scott. Tell him, Wash.

Washington: It’s is incredibly hard.

Substitute "announcing wrestling meets" for "playing first base" and that's how I feel.

That being said I do feel like in thirty minutes you could learn the basics of wrestling and be better at announcing it.

But that would take away some of the fun from the pbp on this board.
 
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It just seems to me that if they went to one single dual meet with a fellow student who wrestled in high school, and let him explain the very basic rules and a few of the basic moves (arm bar, tilt, half nelson, life-and-return, etc) they would be 5x better prepared than I have ever seen any set of announcers at one of these meets. Maybe even ask a former HS wrestler to sit in the booth with them, unmiked, to help explain to them what is going on. ("Psst, that move is called an 'arm bar', not an 'arm lock'")

I don't care if this is just a journalism class, a few hours of preparation doesn't seem to be an outlandish level of expectation -- if not for the fans it should at least be expected by their professor.
 
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C'mon guys. Lots of humor from listening to these guys and gals. Good for a few chuckles. Life is too serious as it is. We need more laughter.

Anybody know why Angels can fly???

Because they take themselves lightly.

Smile....Life is good. :D
 
Dang -- how'd you do that?! Awesome work pulling that up!

For some reason, I can't get the video to play, but I'm hoping it works eventually. It's worth a look for any wrestling fan. Good for a belly laugh!

I do think this is the right meet, but the "illegal fist to the back" doesn't happen in the Ruth match. However, there are some gems in this match, nonetheless. A few of the best little nuggets include:

1. Ruth working a "chicken wing" from the neutral position as Koehn puts in a wizard.

2. Ruth working for a reversal from the top position.

3. Ruth working for a reversal from neutral.

4. A "stallmate" on the edge, in the neutral position.

Even though this match lacks the "illegal fist to the back", it's still worth a good laugh.

I agree - this comic gold. I love it. "Ruth trying to get a grab to the head."
 
C'mon guys. Lots of humor from listening to these guys and gals. Good for a few chuckles. Life is too serious as it is. We need more laughter.

Anybody know why Angels can fly???

Because they take themselves lightly.

Smile....Life is good. :D
I get your point, but when it gets as bad as it does at times it's disrespectful to the sport.
 
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It would be fun to have a compilation of the best of the worse moments, but listening to an entire broadcast leaves me praying for dead air or transmission failure. Thank Gable for the mute button….
 
I'd listen to two porcupines humping if I can watch some wrestling but El Dub is right...it is hard not to be like "WTF" sometimes.
 
Dang -- how'd you do that?! Awesome work pulling that up!

For some reason, I can't get the video to play, but I'm hoping it works eventually. It's worth a look for any wrestling fan. Good for a belly laugh!

I do think this is the right meet, but the "illegal fist to the back" doesn't happen in the Ruth match. However, there are some gems in this match, nonetheless. A few of the best little nuggets include:

1. Ruth working a "chicken wing" from the neutral position as Koehn puts in a wizard.

2. Ruth working for a reversal from the top position.

3. Ruth working for a reversal from neutral.

4. A "stallmate" on the edge, in the neutral position.

Even though this match lacks the "illegal fist to the back", it's still worth a good laugh.
Some more good stuff.

- “they’re going for the knees”
- “the arguably better Ruth”
- Says Ruth takes the” high position” versus “top”
- Says they’re going for the “reversal” when getting a TD, and then calls it “backpoints”
- A cradle is called a “fancy” move.
- Calls a “reversal” for Koehn when attempting a single leg
- Koehn “rolls Ruth over” when it was Ruth doing another cradle.
 
It just seems to me that if they went to one single dual meet with a fellow student who wrestled in high school, and let him explain the very basic rules and a few of the basic moves (arm bar, tilt, half nelson, life-and-return, etc) they would be 5x better prepared than I have ever seen any set of announcers at one of these meets. Maybe even ask a former HS wrestler to sit in the booth with them, unmiked, to help explain to them what is going on. ("Psst, that move is called an 'arm bar', not an 'arm lock'")

I don't care if this is just a journalism class, a few hours of preparation doesn't seem to be an outlandish level of expectation -- if not for the fans it should at least be expected by their professor.

It would take a LOT more than just a dual meet or a half hour to learn the sport well enough to do a quality job calling live action. The latter is the key. There's no time to think and react when doing PBP.
 
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Nothing was worse than Jeff Byers announcing the MN at PSU dual last year. He started off by describing the Gophers colors as burgundy and yellow. He then didn't know the criteria for deciding a tie and incorrectly announced what needed to happen in the final matches for Penn State to win. But his meet long ineptitude was simply a warmup to his constant beratement of the ref, including calling him out by name. Of course post meet analysis (including that of PSU fans) concluded that the referee's calls were indeed the correct ones..
 
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Nothing was worse than Jeff Byers announcing the MN at PSU dual last year. He started off by describing the Gophers colors as burgundy and yellow. He then didn't know the criteria for deciding a tie and incorrectly announced what needed to happen in the final matches for Penn State to win. But his meet long ineptitude was simply a warmup to his constant beratement of the ref, including calling him out by name. Of course post meet analysis (including that of PSU fans) concluded that the referee's calls were indeed the correct ones..

The vid of that one had me scratching my head as well.
 
I do get a kick out of these young announcers. One thing I don't understand is why so many of them talk about "reversals" from the neutral position. Even to the completely uneducated observer, the term "reversal" implies the reversal of position rather than taking control of the opponent. It strikes me as totally counterintuitive to be calling anything from the neutral position a "reversal" -- yet you hear it all the time, from lots of different young commentators. You'd think the concept of the takedown would be at least vaguely familiar to these kids. Evidently, not! I do agree with the spirit of Kwood's post above, though -- nothing to take too seriously, and there's plenty of material here to make you smile/laugh.
 
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Well, there is also the reversal in the Nathan's Hot Dog Eating Championship on Coney Island each year ...
 
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On the plus side, BTN doesn't feel the need to break into the middle of the match to show one of the wrestlers wives or mommies actions like the idiots at ESPN do during the National Championship Matches.
 
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