Opinion: Iowa girls are relying on Athletic Union to preserve girls sports

HawkPT

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If you think this is a R vs. D issue, you are a radical. A very high percentage of people on both sides believe that female athletes have an inherent disadvantage when compared to transwomen and, therefore, them competing on the same playing field is inherently unfair to the female athletes. We don't need this to be significantly more common to raise awareness and try to protect the female athlete. This is precisely when we should be talking about this.

This is yet another situation that proves that you cannot extricate science and faith. They are completely intertwined. Your worldview informs your views on science.

Though I would use a different approach than many on here, I do agree that engaging in this debate is fruitless if we cannot even agree what is a man and what is a woman. That is a premise that should be established first, and the rest will follow. The fact that we as a society have defaulted to allowing a transwoman to participate in female athletics tells us that we have already established a new societal norm, which is why many are arguing against it even though it is not yet common. It inevitably will become much more common unless we decide to engage in a process that ultimately changes this emerging societal norm.
 

Hawki97

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Male Athletics
a. biological males
b. biological males transitioning to female
c. biological females transitioning to male
_____________________________________________________
Female Athletics
a. biological females

You're allowed to transition,.. you're not allowed to gain an athletic advantage.

This is the correct answer IMHO. And it has nothing to do with my political beliefs, my (no) religion beliefs, etc. I’ve got eyes. I don’t need anything else to tell me this is the right way to do it.
 

Hawk_82

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Because when it comes to science, you don't use gut feelings, assumptions, or what you hope to be true. You have to use data and right now, what little data we have suggests that after two years of transitioning there isn't any difference in muscle mass or bone density. What you need to be asking is, "Why isn't more research being done on this"? That way, if you are going to say that trans-women can't play women's sports it's not based on some religious or personal belief, it's based on science.
I agree, research away. There is science that shows that men do lose some musle mass from taking hormones, but that does not eliminate the other inherent advantages that men gain after going through puberty. Show me any research that gives a standard treatment plan for hormones, or a standard testosterone level that would make a man a women. The science also does not support your trans men being the same as women, but logic tells us that on average, a man has more athletic potential and this will remain long past starting hormones.
STFU. No one is “afraid”. You Cons and your endless persecution complexes are nauseating.

The American Psychological Association disagrees with you, random internet moron.

Just call the two sides XX and XY. Simple solution. This should be such a non-issue.
The apa has some very politically correct statements and somewhat conflicting information. To me it seems like the apa is part of the problem in all of this. Rather than have the science prove something is true, the apa has decided to run with their thoughts and feelings as being true until the science proves them wrong (which it will eventually). They obviously have their own motivations as well, so not exactly the most objective source. It makes me sad to have to write that about a professional organization.
 

Capernum

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Transgender men or boys should never be allowed on girls sports
While I am very progressive on almost every topic, the intersection of feminism and trans-advocacy is more complicated here.

MtF trans athletes should only be allowed to complete in girl’s athletics if they transition pre-puberty.
 

BC Hawk

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That judgement is left up to families and doctors. Trans kids have the highest suicide ideation rates, I’m not going to judge the medical response. The medical protocols have been set and they are not for us to second guess.
All the power to them. Go be happy. But biological males playing girl sports is not fair.
 

Chuck C

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I love how certain people want to turn this into a R vs D thing instead actually addressing the issue. I don’t vote republican but the idea of letting trans females compete against females is “mind bottling.”

Anybody that has spent any time around youth sports can see the massive separation in athletic ability that occurs between M’s and F’s once they begin puberty.

Rifler nailed it in post #80 with what the delineation should be.
 
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Capernum

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All the power to them. Go be happy. But biological males playing girl sports is not fair.
I don’t really see much harm if they never received male hormones during puberty. Physically there would be very little difference to the frame, muscular structure, etc. Post puberty transition is a different story. Even if the male hormones have left the body and the muscle mass has decreased, they structural changes to the frame are still present.
 

Chuck C

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Which should never happen.
It’s a separate issue, but IMO allowing a prepubescent kid to make a decision such as transitioning is just plain wrong. As a society, we have determined that kids don’t have the mental capacity to make certain decisions and actions until they’re adults. But in this case it’s been decided they can make permanent body altering decisions as a kid.
 

hydro2.0

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It’s a separate issue, but IMO allowing a prepubescent kid to make a decision such as transitioning is just plain wrong. As a society, we have determined that kids don’t have the mental capacity to make certain decisions and actions until they’re adults. But in this case it’s been decided they can make permanent body altering decisions as a kid.

Totally sane.
 

HawkPT

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It’s a separate issue, but IMO allowing a prepubescent kid to make a decision such as transitioning is just plain wrong. As a society, we have determined that kids don’t have the mental capacity to make certain decisions and actions until they’re adults. But in this case it’s been decided they can make permanent body altering decisions as a kid.
The problem is, it is not a separate issue. This is naturally where the arguments we were having above will lead in a dynamic society.

There is a segment of the population that believes that the law of man should reflect the law of man's Creator; those that don't will judge what is right by other standards. The former group is rapidly shrinking. And because this group is socially reprimanded for speaking up, it will appear that they are the minority even when they are not. That's why this article written by an 18-year-old is extraordinary.
 

BioHawk

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I agree, research away. There is science that shows that men do lose some musle mass from taking hormones, but that does not eliminate the other inherent advantages that men gain after going through puberty. Show me any research that gives a standard treatment plan for hormones, or a standard testosterone level that would make a man a women. The science also does not support your trans men being the same as women, but logic tells us that on average, a man has more athletic potential and this will remain long past starting hormones.
You seem to think I have a bias on this. If I do, it is to follow the science and right now there isn't enough of it to form any kind of coherent conclusion. What little there is, actually shows the opposite of "common knowledge". That doesn't mean the "common knowledge" is wrong, it means we need more data. And you hit on the problem here. The research you want to see doesn't exist which is why you can't be shown that data. Unfortunately, then you jump onto the "lets make something illegal then because my preconceived position hasn't been disproven yet" and that's where your position falls apart. If you are going to deny opportunities for people, you better have rock solid data to back up the claim or you put yourself at risk.
 

Tfxchawk

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apparently they aren't concerned with girls losing college scholarships.

100% this.
Pat Forde's daughter swam in the olympics and swims for Stanford. She wrote a very thoughtful essay about being ok competing against Thomas.
Which is great and easy. She got to compete in the olympics, she competed in a fair NCAA swimming competition. Maybe she would feel different if she had been denied those opportunities by a superior athlete on her team.
The 16 girls on the penn team that spoke up after their athletic department spoke out of turn for them are the ones I feel for. If a guy switches genders and is immediately one of the top two in their field, then there's an issue.
No one every wants to touch the opposite. Why are there no great transgendered men? If we aren't concerned about a level playing field why don't women that are taking testosterone to become male get to compete against women?
And honestly how dare the administration of Penn put out that narrative knowing it was a lie? I hope those women sue the hell out.of Penn but they won't because it would destroy their future

I think the left has completely misread this situation and overplayed their hand by a great deal. People are not going to tolerate it
 

Tfxchawk

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Funny how quickly the argument that the women's soccer team would beat the men's team has disappeared isn't it? Thank you Lia...at least you have demonstrated quite effectively the truth most on the left have tried to gaslight and shame everyone about. Ranked like 500 nationally for men and will set every individual national record for women a year later
 

Big Hawk D-Port

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You seem to think I have a bias on this. If I do, it is to follow the science and right now there isn't enough of it to form any kind of coherent conclusion. What little there is, actually shows the opposite of "common knowledge". That doesn't mean the "common knowledge" is wrong, it means we need more data. And you hit on the problem here. The research you want to see doesn't exist which is why you can't be shown that data. Unfortunately, then you jump onto the "lets make something illegal then because my preconceived position hasn't been disproven yet" and that's where your position falls apart. If you are going to deny opportunities for people, you better have rock solid data to back up the claim or you put yourself at risk.
The people being denied an opportunity for fair competition are the actual girls. If you need more data to tell you that men are bigger, stronger and faster than girls then you’re a fool.
 

Hawk_82

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You seem to think I have a bias on this. If I do, it is to follow the science and right now there isn't enough of it to form any kind of coherent conclusion. What little there is, actually shows the opposite of "common knowledge". That doesn't mean the "common knowledge" is wrong, it means we need more data. And you hit on the problem here. The research you want to see doesn't exist which is why you can't be shown that data. Unfortunately, then you jump onto the "lets make something illegal then because my preconceived position hasn't been disproven yet" and that's where your position falls apart. If you are going to deny opportunities for people, you better have rock solid data to back up the claim or you put yourself at risk.
Science works both ways. Why do you need science to prevent trans from competing against woman, but its ok to allow it without any evidence.

A long time ago the rules were made to prevent guys from competing against girls so girls had a chace to win and get scholarships, etc. Those in charge decided to change those rules for social reasons to avoid hurting trans feelings. So this is why i think you are wrong. It should have been required that the science be there before allowing biological boys compete against girls. But now trans activists are saying there isnt evidence to say trans have an advantage. Thats hypocritical considering the change was made initially without solid science.
 

Tfxchawk

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Science works both ways. Why do you need science to prevent trans from competing against woman, but its ok to allow it without any evidence.

A long time ago the rules were made to prevent guys from competing against girls so girls had a chace to win and get scholarships, etc. Those in charge decided to change those rules for social reasons to avoid hurting trans feelings. So this is why i think you are wrong. It should have been required that the science be there before allowing biological boys compete against girls. But now trans activists are saying there isnt evidence to say trans have an advantage. Thats hypocritical considering the change was made initially without solid science.

This is what happens when science becomes religious dogma and is used as a political weapon to silence rather than inquire. There is no reasonable anything that suggests trans is anything other than a mental disorder at all other than predetermined studies. There is nothing scientific about the trans movement.
 
May 26, 2007
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Political correctness has gotten to a point where people are afraid to admit that they aren’t on board with irreversibly transitioning prepubescent kids to a different sex.
Trans away the gay.
Trans away the uncertainty.
Trans away reality.

And in 10-20 years when we look back on this Mengele experimentation as the horror show it is, all of these “woman is just a feeling” scum will be silent.
 
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Bulldogs1974

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You seem to think I have a bias on this. If I do, it is to follow the science and right now there isn't enough of it to form any kind of coherent conclusion. What little there is, actually shows the opposite of "common knowledge". That doesn't mean the "common knowledge" is wrong, it means we need more data. And you hit on the problem here. The research you want to see doesn't exist which is why you can't be shown that data. Unfortunately, then you jump onto the "lets make something illegal then because my preconceived position hasn't been disproven yet" and that's where your position falls apart. If you are going to deny opportunities for people, you better have rock solid data to back up the claim or you put yourself at risk.
Have you seen one woman transitioning to a man dominate in a mens sport? I think it’s more than obvious what the answer here is.
 

Hawk_82

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This is what happens when science becomes religious dogma and is used as a political weapon to silence rather than inquire. There is no reasonable anything that suggests trans is anything other than a mental disorder at all other than predetermined studies. There is nothing scientific about the trans movement.
One would naturally think that a disorder where ones body is totally normal, but their brain does not feel like they have the right body would be a mental disorder. But that is no longer the case. The American Psychological Association says:


Question was: Is being transgender a mental disorder?
"A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder. For these individuals, the significant problem is finding affordable resources, such as counseling, hormone therapy, medical procedures and the social support necessary to freely express their gender identity and minimize discrimination. Many other obstacles may lead to distress, including a lack of acceptance within society, direct or indirect experiences with discrimination, or assault. These experiences may lead many transgender people to suffer with anxiety, depression or related disorders at higher rates than non-transgender persons."

This is on the website for a professional medical society.
It is crazy how all this stuff has gone down. I still believe there will be some lawsuits in the future for kids who have complications for hormones or surgery at a young age.
 
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BlackNGoldBleeder

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"So here I am writing to you, explaining why female sports need to be protected and preserved. But, in all honesty, I shouldn’t have to. The Iowa Girls High School Athletic Union was created to protect the rights and best interests of female athletes. "

To this point, Iowa is the only remaining state that has two separate governing bodies for boys and girls athletics. I've often praised this fact to many. It ensures the girls are treated just as well as the boys. It's no time for them to be feckless. Stand up for girls sports!
I stand in support of this.

You’re still a feckless desecration. 😁
 

BlackNGoldBleeder

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The freaks are not victims they do not deserve special statusm. You might feel like a women but you are still a man. Society should not change because of your mental problems
I agree with the OP, but this comment is ridiculous. You clearly have your own mental problems to deal with.
 
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May 26, 2007
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You seem to think I have a bias on this. If I do, it is to follow the science and right now there isn't enough of it to form any kind of coherent conclusion. What little there is, actually shows the opposite of "common knowledge". That doesn't mean the "common knowledge" is wrong, it means we need more data. And you hit on the problem here. The research you want to see doesn't exist which is why you can't be shown that data. Unfortunately, then you jump onto the "lets make something illegal then because my preconceived position hasn't been disproven yet" and that's where your position falls apart. If you are going to deny opportunities for people, you better have rock solid data to back up the claim or you put yourself at risk.
You better show how males can become female through *hormones, *surgery, and sheer tyranny of will.

*Hormones and surgery not required. Just the "feeling" is sufficient.
 
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Tfxchawk

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One would naturally think that a disorder where ones body is totally normal, but their brain does not feel like they have the right body would be a mental disorder. But that is no longer the case. The American Psychological Association says:


Question was: Is being transgender a mental disorder?
"A psychological state is considered a mental disorder only if it causes significant distress or disability. Many transgender people do not experience their gender as distressing or disabling, which implies that identifying as transgender does not constitute a mental disorder. For these individuals, the significant problem is finding affordable resources, such as counseling, hormone therapy, medical procedures and the social support necessary to freely express their gender identity and minimize discrimination. Many other obstacles may lead to distress, including a lack of acceptance within society, direct or indirect experiences with discrimination, or assault. These experiences may lead many transgender people to suffer with anxiety, depression or related disorders at higher rates than non-transgender persons."

This is on the website for a professional medical society.
It is crazy how all this stuff has gone down. I still believe there will be some lawsuits in the future for kids who have complications for hormones or surgery at a young age.


It is insanity
 
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