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Opinion: Manchin’s ludicrous attack on electric vehicles bodes badly for our future

cigaretteman

HR King
May 29, 2001
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By Greg Sargent
Columnist
Today at 10:52 a.m. EDT

Fresh off their retreat in Philadelphia, House Democrats have decided their best hope for holding their majority lies in showing they can deliver. So it’s bad news for Democrats that Sen. Joe Manchin III is sending new signals of opposition to a scaled-down version of President Biden’s climate and social policy agenda.
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In comments that are now sinking in hard among Democrats, Manchin recently told an energy conference that he is “very reluctant” to see the development of electric vehicles, a key component of a rehabilitated Biden blueprint to combat climate change.
The problem here is that Manchin’s stance appears grounded in a deeply flawed conception of government and the economy that could undermine the very foundation of the case for acting on climate, and how we should do so.
This bodes very badly. It means we might squander an opening for the Russian invasion of Ukraine to build deeper public consensus for shifting away from fossil fuels. And it dims hopes for getting major new climate policy passed before Democrats lose the House, possibly killing those prospects for many years.
Greg Sargent: West Virginia’s coal miners made Joe Manchin’s life a lot harder
“I’m very reluctant to go down the path of electric vehicles,” Manchin said at the conference. “I’m old enough to remember standing in line in 1974 trying to buy gas.” He added he doesn’t want to wait in line “for a battery for my vehicle, because we’re now dependent on a foreign supply chain.”
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“I’ve read history, and I remember Henry Ford inventing the Model-T,” Manchin also said, “but I sure as hell don’t remember the U.S. government building filling stations — the market did that.”
What’s galling is that Manchin recently signaled openness to a smaller Biden blueprint that would raise some high-end taxes and use the revenue for deficit reduction and investing in climate.
Such a proposal would ideally include large tax credits to encourage the purchase of electric vehicles and other technologies. The concept is that government can help accelerate the development of those technologies, which are critical to a decarbonized future.
Let’s first note that it’s extraordinarily cynical for Manchin to evoke bad memories of 1970s gas lines to argue against electric vehicles. High oil and gas prices right now, in the context of the Russian invasion, make a strong case for reducing dependence on fossil fuels. Manchin’s demagoguery turns that on its head.
Beyond this, Manchin says transitioning to electric vehicles will put us at the mercy of China’s dominance in electric car batteries. And more vaguely, he suggests government shouldn’t encourage development of electric vehicles, because the good ol’ gas-guzzling automobile’s infrastructure didn’t benefit from government help. That was created by “the market.”
Parsing Manchin’s position is challenging. After all, the bipartisan infrastructure bill that passed last year — which Manchin championed — included billions in subsidies for electric vehicle charging stations. So Manchin doesn’t flatly oppose all government help for the development of such technologies.
But Manchin does appear to be saying that, in a broader sense, the electric car’s development shouldn’t benefit from too much government help, because the traditional auto did not.
This has puzzled Democrats. One senior congressional aide tells me Manchin’s objections, as stated to other Democrats, have been far narrower, to things such as the proper income threshold for qualifying for tax credits to buy electric cars.
But let’s assume that this broader objection is Manchin’s true philosophical position.
What’s strange about this is that government investment is the answer to his first warning. If Manchin’s fear is Chinese dominance of battery supply chains, then government investment to encourage domestic production of such essentials for electric cars could mitigate that. Indeed, Democrats have pointed out that a resuscitated climate package would include exactly this.
Manchin’s deeper argument is also off-kilter. It posits the existence of some kind of immaculately government-free market in which the traditional auto and its infrastructure developed, in contrast with electric vehicles, which need government help to get off the ground.
But government investment has been the foundation of the development of technologies throughout U.S. history. As the great book “American Amnesia” recounts, much U.S. technological advancement in the 20th century “rested on public efforts to encourage and spread technological innovations through modern infrastructure.”
This includes the development of the automobile and its infrastructure, notes Yale political scientist Jacob Hacker, who co-wrote “American Amnesia.”
“The basic reality is that the modern roadway system, including the ubiquitous fuel station, was as much a creature of government as any major feature of our economy in the 20th century,” Hacker told me.
“Road planners, both state and federal, mapped out major roadways, purchased or seized land, and, in many cases, set up the well-spaced fueling franchises necessary to ensure that people could get where they wanted to go speedily,” Hacker continued. “Much of this was funded by gas taxes.”
“The spread of the filling station was anything but a free-market development,” Hacker said. He noted that without a “foundation of government investment and regulation,” the auto would have been “all but worthless.”
Here’s the rub: Government should subsidize development of electric vehicles precisely because the “market” probably cannot achieve this on its own at the outset. Government can help markets achieve a social imperative — speeding our transition off fossil fuels — just as it has throughout our history.
But unfortunately, that underlying policy goal is what Manchin appears to oppose. Which bodes very badly indeed.

 
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Manchin is a complete idiot, the American auto companies save our asses in WW2 and yes the US govt paid plenty.
 
Yeah, well, us Dems are stuck with him. As former Republican, and Bulwark writer Tim Miller has said, the alternative to Manchin in WV is Senator Cletus Von Invermectin.
 
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"It means we might squander an opening for the Russian invasion of Ukraine to build deeper public consensus for shifting away from fossil fuels."


Never let a good crisis go to waste.
 
Someone somewhere has a pee tape of Joe Manchin.
Well should be but I'm not sure they have WiFi in West Virginia or even electricity. I'm confident that in-bred redneck M effer is a cousin fuxker if not sister.
 
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"It means we might squander an opening for the Russian invasion of Ukraine to build deeper public consensus for shifting away from fossil fuels."


Never let a good crisis go to waste.
The Russians took over Chernobyl.
We should probably take our reactors offline.
To be safe.
 
Electric vehicles have a place in the future, but right now it is not feasible to expect people to go out and get them. First, we don’t have the charging stations, they are too expensive, you don’t have places that can fix them, repairs are crazy expensive, and it’s not like you can go find them on a lot.
 
Electric vehicles have a place in the future, but right now it is not feasible to expect people to go out and get them. First, we don’t have the charging stations, they are too expensive, you don’t have places that can fix them, repairs are crazy expensive, and it’s not like you can go find them on a lot.
These were the sort of things said about cars during the first decade or so. Too expensive, got to buy gas, hard to find fill stations, nobody knows how to fix them, etc. Guess we should have stuck with the horse and buggy’s like the Amish.
 
As I have said repeatedly, we - the global we - are phucked. Reliance on fossil fuels is one of the Great Filters that prevents civilizations from advancing to interstellar travel. No Star Trek for us.
 
FNz46MHWUAQsYhm
 
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Electric vehicles have a place in the future, but right now it is not feasible to expect people to go out and get them. First, we don’t have the charging stations, they are too expensive, you don’t have places that can fix them, repairs are crazy expensive, and it’s not like you can go find them on a lot.

This is a mixture of a straw man response and inaccurate comments.

If you live in a medium to large city - charging stations are only an issue for long trips… which I find to be the most significant challenge of owning electrify.

Repairs may be hard to find in some places - not sure - but I have not seen any evidence they are “crazy expensive”. One of the positives of owning a Tesla was the lack of maintenance and there just aren’t that many things that can break. It’s basically like owning a big computer with tires (which are expensive).

They may not be available on a lot - but you can find them. Really easily. Perhaps you just need the car salesmen breathing down your neck to make a decision, but to me buying through internet is far superior.

In terms of cost - I think it’s just a different way to pay for transportation. Higher sticker price, but less for maintenance and energy.

I think electric vehicles should be like the minivan of my youth. They fit a specific purpose and do it really well, but it makes so much more sense for a 2 vehicle family.

Oh and what you said doesn’t really mesh with the moronic comments in the article. The challenges you describe are solvable. Manchin is inventing problems to serve his masters.
 
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These were the sort of things said about cars during the first decade or so. Too expensive, got to buy gas, hard to find fill stations, nobody knows how to fix them, etc. Guess we should have stuck with the horse and buggy’s like the Amish.
And you know what, we didn't try and outlaw horses or make them crazy expensive or demand that they walk so far without feed either. We just allowed the technology to catch hold and waited for prices to come down on cars, (thank you Henry Ford) and eventually cars won out.

The left is hell bent on forcing the world to buy electric cars before they are proven cost effective and before the people can adapt to them. Let society develop and stop with the authoritarian BS. Did anyone have to pass laws to force people to buy cell phones and dump land lines? No, people discovered the benefits and moved on to them. Let the world adapt organically. If EV's are the future people will get on board, if they aren't the public will tell developers why and what changes need to be made.
 
And you know what, we didn't try and outlaw horses or make them crazy expensive or demand that they walk so far without feed either. We just allowed the technology to catch hold and waited for prices to come down on cars, (thank you Henry Ford) and eventually cars won out.

The left is hell bent on forcing the world to buy electric cars before they are proven cost effective and before the people can adapt to them. Let society develop and stop with the authoritarian BS. Did anyone have to pass laws to force people to buy cell phones and dump land lines? No, people discovered the benefits and moved on to them. Let the world adapt organically. If EV's are the future people will get on board, if they aren't the public will tell developers why and what changes need to be made.
What, exactly, is the left hell bent on doing? What authoritarian BS?

If you haven't noticed in the past decade the EV segment has taken hold... it's not a passing fad. It has shown huge growth the past few years and will only continue in the years ahead. Some of the things the government is trying to aid in is similar to the US interstate and hwy systems and the planning of filling stations along the routes. Yet, some seem totally against this but fine with the massive subsidies paid to the large oil companies who are making record profits... and bitch about gas prices when they could be gaining independence by going EV. You'd think every red-blooded American would be all about getting away from gas and the cost rollercoaster and stop relying on foreign oil. Could stop worrying about rising electric costs when you have solar panels on your house. Weird to complain about this stuff but be good with paying out to the rich foreign oil companies.
 
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He’s a moderate, just ask him.
So criticizing a Democrat when I've said I'm a moderate Democrat makes me not moderate? Manchin is an attention whore who seems to enjoy bringing the entire government to a standstill so he can grandstand. But that makes me not moderate? GFY MAGA.
 
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“I’m very reluctant to go down the path of electric vehicles,” Manchin said at the conference. “I’m old enough to remember standing in line in 1974 trying to buy gas.” He added he doesn’t want to wait in line “for a battery for my vehicle, because we’re now dependent on a foreign supply chain.”

So goddamned stupid. Just say, "I'm from WV. Eff that electric shit."
 
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What, exactly, is the left hell bent on doing? What authoritarian BS?

If you haven't noticed in the past decade the EV segment has taken hold... it's not a passing fad. It has shown huge growth the past few years and will only continue in the years ahead. Some of the things the government is trying to aid in is similar to the US interstate and hwy systems and the planning of filling stations along the routes. Yet, some seem totally against this but fine with the massive subsidies paid to the large oil companies who are making record profits... and bitch about gas prices when they could be gaining independence by going EV. You'd think every red-blooded American would be all about getting away from gas and the cost rollercoaster and stop relying on foreign oil. Could stop worrying about rising electric costs when you have solar panels on your house. Weird to complain about this stuff but be good with paying out to the rich foreign oil companies.
Is the goverment going to buy EV's for the elderly or low income? Why don't you have a problem with tax breaks to wind farms and electric vehicles but you do with oil? I'm sick of the double standard of the left. Do what we want and you will be fine, have other ideas? we will tax the heck out of you and allow fuel prices to bankrupt you.

Again, let the market do what it needs to do and get out of the way. Stop forcing people thru BS regulations and artificially high prices. Again, see my cell phone example.
 
Is the goverment going to buy EV's for the elderly or low income? Why don't you have a problem with tax breaks to wind farms and electric vehicles but you do with oil? I'm sick of the double standard of the left. Do what we want and you will be fine, have other ideas? we will tax the heck out of you and allow fuel prices to bankrupt you.

Again, let the market do what it needs to do and get out of the way. Stop forcing people thru BS regulations and artificially high prices. Again, see my cell phone example.
I don't mind some tax breaks, but I'm not going to bitch about turbines and solar panels but be silent on oil like some of you on here. Don't like gas prices... get an EV and you won't have to worry about them anymore. Don't like electric prices... get solar panels and it won't be an issue. There's no need to buy some old lady an EV. Gas stations will be around for decades, but their numbers will dwindle or you'll see more of them dropping pumps while adding charging stations.
 
These were the sort of things said about cars during the first decade or so. Too expensive, got to buy gas, hard to find fill stations, nobody knows how to fix them, etc. Guess we should have stuck with the horse and buggy’s like the Amish.
If gas prices keep going up...🐎 😉
 
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