Oregon Shooter's father blames guns, not his own parenting.

[MichiganManLifer]

This is so ridiculous. Why should the shooters parents get to speak? They proved they a raised disturbed killer, yet he has the answers on guns? Un-freaking believable!

“It has to change, it has to change. How can it not? Even people that believe in the right to bear arms, you know, what right do you have to take peoples’ lives? That’s what guns are: The killers. It’s as simple as that.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/father-oregon-shooter-blames-gun-easy-article-1.2385380

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

How do you know that it was his failures in parenting that have caused this??

I get that parenting failures can cause problems later in life but not everything can be related back to that. At some point people's children start to think for themselves.

 

[MichiganManLifer]

How do you know that it was his failures in parenting that have caused this??

I get that parenting failures can cause problems later in life but not everything can be related back to that. At some point people's children start to think for themselves.

Yes they do, but guns do NOT think for themselves. That's my point. He blames guns rather than his parenting. It may not be his parenting, but it sure as hell wasn't the gun that killed those people. His parenting has a lot more to do with it than the gun.

 

[Sooner-Be-Dead]

Sounds like the mom taught her son to worship guns.

 

[whatsup12579er]

Didn't they know he had 'mental problems' and apparently didn't get him the help he needed? I would say that is clearly a parenting fail. No matter how old your child is you never stop being their parent and never stop making sure they have everything they need to succeed in life.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Yes they do, but guns do NOT think for themselves. That's my point. He blames guns rather than his parenting. It may not be his parenting, but it sure as hell wasn't the gun that killed those people. His parenting has a lot more to do with it than the gun.

It was his ACCESS to the guns that ended up killing those people. If all this guy has is a knife or a baseball bat. 9 people don't die.

And I'm also noting from what I'm reading that his mom divorced his dad and took off and it sounds like she sort of kept him out of the picture. If you want to blame someone's parenting blame mom.

Also his mom knew he had mental problems but gave him access to guns anyways.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Didn't they know he had 'mental problems' and apparently didn't get him the help he needed? I would say that is clearly a parenting fail. No matter how old your child is you never stop being their parent and never stop making sure they have everything they need to succeed in life.

That's on his mom, she divorced his dad and seemed to make sure that dad wasn't in the picture.

 

[Ried#3]

The guns made him do it.

 

[Titanhawk2]

This is so ridiculous. Why should the shooters parents get to speak? They proved they a raised disturbed killer, yet he has the answers on guns? Un-freaking believable!

“It has to change, it has to change. How can it not? Even people that believe in the right to bear arms, you know, what right do you have to take peoples’ lives? That’s what guns are: The killers. It’s as simple as that.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/father-oregon-shooter-blames-gun-easy-article-1.2385380

Unless the guns spoke to the kid, I could see that

 

[swagsurfer02]

It was his ACCESS to the guns that ended up killing those people. If all this guy has is a knife or a baseball bat. 9 people don't die.

And I'm also noting from what I'm reading that his mom divorced his dad and took off and it sounds like she sort of kept him out of the picture. If you want to blame someone's parenting blame mom.

Also his mom knew he had mental problems but gave him access to guns anyways.

Guns don't shoot themselves and that guy had every right to be in his son's life.

 

[ottumwan in tx]

did he mention the cia handler?

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Guns don't shoot themselves and that guy had every right to be in his son's life.

The fact that he had every right to be in his life doesn't mean that in practice he actually got to be in his life.

I agree guns don't shoot themselves, but you don't give someone who you know has mental issues access to firearms.

It's like giving a drunk the keys to your car.

 

[swagsurfer02]

The fact that he had every right to be in his life doesn't mean that in practice he actually got to be in his life.

I agree guns don't shoot themselves, but you don't give someone who you know has mental issues access to firearms.

It's like giving a drunk the keys to your car.

I love your analogy, but why aren't you blaming the car instead of the drunk?

 

[naturalmwa]

This is so ridiculous. Why should the shooters parents get to speak? They proved they a raised disturbed killer, yet he has the answers on guns? Un-freaking believable!

I like this position. Let's extend it. If you screw up, you no longer get to express yourself. That should make voting quick.

 

[MichiganManLifer]

It was his ACCESS to the guns that ended up killing those people. If all this guy has is a knife or a baseball bat. 9 people don't die.

And I'm also noting from what I'm reading that his mom divorced his dad and took off and it sounds like she sort of kept him out of the picture. If you want to blame someone's parenting blame mom.

Also his mom knew he had mental problems but gave him access to guns anyways.

I saw that part, but i hate that type of argument and you aren't the only one that uses it. He could have run over hundreds of people in a car, too.

 

[Sooner-Be-Dead]

I love your analogy, but why aren't you blaming the car instead of the drunk?

Umm, no. Don't give a drunk a car and don't give nuts guns.

 

[swagsurfer02]

Umm, no. Don't give a drunk a car and don't give nuts guns.

My question was who exactly knew he was a nut?

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

I love your analogy, but why aren't you blaming the car instead of the drunk?

No I'm blaming the person who gave the drunk access to the car while knowing they where drunk.

 

[swagsurfer02]

No I'm blaming the person who gave the drunk access to the car while knowing they where drunk.

I'm going to make this very clear, individuals make decisions. Both bad and good, let's hold them responsible.

This guy murdered ppl, it's on him. Someone decides to get drunk and gets behind the wheel and kills someone. It's on him. I think we are so busy trying to blame a group.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

I'm going to make this very clear, individuals make decisions. Both bad and good, let's hold them responsible.

This guy murdered ppl, it's on him. Someone decides to get drunk and gets behind the wheel and kills someone. It's on him. I think we are so busy trying to blame a group.

There is no question that it's on the drunk and it's on the person that actually did the killing. The problem is that when you have an enabler. . . someone who gave them the means with which to do these things or encouragement to do these things, some guilt has to be placed on that person as well.

If you give a drunk the keys to your car then you are an enabler and some guilt is on you as well.

We are in a sense our brothers' keepers. . . You may not be able to stop someone from doing something that hurts others, but when you help them you are also crossing a line.

 

[swagsurfer02]

There is no question that it's on the drunk and it's on the person that actually did the killing. The problem is that when you have an enabler. . . someone who gave them the means with which to do these things or encouragement to do these things, some guilt has to be placed on that person as well.

If you give a drunk the keys to your car then you are an enabler and some guilt is on you as well.

We are in a sense our brothers' keepers. . . You may not be able to stop someone from doing something that hurts others, but when you help them you are also crossing a line.

I'm with you on this entire post. However then it's the mother who is the enabler here. But do you really think she suspected her son to be capable of these acts?

If so, I'm cool with throwing the book at her.

 

[Sooner-Be-Dead]

My question was who exactly knew he was a nut?

Mom knew. We saw the exact same thing in CT.

 

[swagsurfer02]

Mom knew. We saw the exact same thing in CT.

If you can prove it, go get her.

 

[Sooner-Be-Dead]

It's probably not a crime to supply an adult with guns and ammo it's just criminally stupid.

 

[22*43*51]

How do you know that it was his failures in parenting that have caused this??

Broken homes and disengaged parents regularly produce kids with issues.

 

[joelbc1]

This is so ridiculous. Why should the shooters parents get to speak? They proved they a raised disturbed killer, yet he has the answers on guns? Un-freaking believable!

“It has to change, it has to change. How can it not? Even people that believe in the right to bear arms, you know, what right do you have to take peoples’ lives? That’s what guns are: The killers. It’s as simple as that.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/father-oregon-shooter-blames-gun-easy-article-1.2385380

Typical friggin' response from another "Michigan Man"........The original "Michigan Man" said the most stupid thing I ever heard following a FB game his team lost (to Iowa) when he said, They (Iowa) didn't deserve to win because..."they didn't even score a touchdown against us!"
This quote by another "Michigan Man" is perhaps the second stupidest thing I have ever read. Blame the parents for a child's mental illness? Really? How stupid can one state be to keep producing "Michigan Men" like these?

 

[joelbc1]

This is so ridiculous. Why should the shooters parents get to speak? They proved they a raised disturbed killer, yet he has the answers on guns? Un-freaking believable!

“It has to change, it has to change. How can it not? Even people that believe in the right to bear arms, you know, what right do you have to take peoples’ lives? That’s what guns are: The killers. It’s as simple as that.”

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/father-oregon-shooter-blames-gun-easy-article-1.2385380

Typical friggin' response from another "Michigan Man"........The original "Michigan Man" said the most stupid thing I ever heard following a FB game his team lost (to Iowa) when he said, They (Iowa) didn't deserve to win because..."they didn't even score a touchdown against us!"
This quote by another "Michigan Man" is perhaps the second

 

[swagsurfer02]

It's probably not a crime to supply an adult with guns and ammo it's just criminally stupid.

Now I don't know what to think? I guess no criminal charges but there may be a civil suit. Good luck with that tho.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

I'm with you on this entire post. However then it's the mother who is the enabler here. But do you really think she suspected her son to be capable of these acts?

If so, I'm cool with throwing the book at her.

Knowing your child has a mental illness should mean that you don't want deadly weapons in their hands.

The guy clearly had issues outside of just having autism.

 

[Hawk in SEC Country]

Sounds like the mom taught her son to worship guns.

worship? really?

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

Broken homes and disengaged parents regularly produce kids with issues.

From the information we have it was the mother who broke the home and had custody.

 

[Jan Itor]

That's on his mom, she divorced his dad and seemed to make sure that dad wasn't in the picture.

Already said that.

 

[22*43*51]

From the information we have it was the mother who broke the home and had custody.

It takes two to break a marriage.

Additionally, he was 26. I think the custody rights had dissolved years ago.

If you don't know your son has issues and is building an arsenal, then you chose not to be engaged in his life.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

It takes two to break a marriage.

Additionally, he was 26. I think the custody rights had dissolved years ago.

If you don't know your son has issues and is building an arsenal, then you chose not to be engaged in his life.

No really it only takes one. It's called no fault divorce.

Means your spouse can take the kids and leave you because they are bored.

From then on they can turn your children against you and purposefully avoid you when it comes to scheduled visitation time.

His mom was buildlng the arsenal. . and was giving her son ready access to it.

 

[DavenportHawk8]

I agree that parenting has a say in a kids life, but once they reach 17 its pretty much on their own. Kids these days are so more independent then when we were growing up. I mean I still haven't heard of a kid having curfews anymore or allowances or anything. Responsibilities are out the door and that's why you see so many kids moving back into Mommy & Daddys' house after college. They didn't teach them responsibility and about hard work, so now they are going to move back in and live for free.

Guns, blah blah blah. Lets face it we will never be able to control it and to get rid of them is absorbed. Force responsible people who protect their guns and keep them safe to give them up, so some nut job can buy it off of the street? No Thank You.

This issue will never die and so its not even worth debating.

 

[MichiganManLifer]

Knowing your child has a mental illness should mean that you don't want deadly weapons in their hands.

The guy clearly had issues outside of just having autism.

I agree completely. My point earlier was that it all goes back to the mental illness not being taken care of. Just because he's nuts, doesn't mean the gun did anything.

 

[moral_victory]

Mom knew.

Reminds me of a movie I saw that was pretty good. On Netflix I believe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/We_Need_to_Talk_About_Kevin_(film)

 

[DavenportHawk8]

I agree completely. My point earlier was that it all goes back to the mental illness not being taken care of. Just because he's nuts, doesn't mean the gun did anything.

This is a sad thing, because I know of several parents who will not take their child in to get tested or the help they need. Instead they make excuses for their behavior and try to hide it. I realize it is not easy and I couldn't imagine what it must feel like to be that parent, but still you have to look out for what's best for your child. By hiding it and not doing anything about it, your setting your child up for failure once they leave the house.

 

[22*43*51]

No really it only takes one. It's called no fault divorce.

Means your spouse can take the kids and leave you because they are bored.

From then on they can turn your children against you and purposefully avoid you when it comes to scheduled visitation time.

His mom was buildlng the arsenal. . and was giving her son ready access to it.

No spouse is fully innocent in a divorce. You are at a bare minimum at fault for poor character judgment during the mate selection process.

Show me a person who doesn't think they were at all complicit in their own divorce and I'll show you someone with a detached sense of self.

 

[Hoosierhawkeye]

No spouse is fully innocent in a divorce. You are at a bare minimum at fault for poor character judgment during the mate selection process.

Show me a person who doesn't think they were at all complicit in their own divorce and I'll show you someone with a detached sense of self.

I'm sorry I disagree, people change. You can't always know ahead of time what your spouse will become or what they will do.

I would say in many divorces you are correct, but not all.