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OT HS basketball- The shot clock, year one.

I have only seen a couple of shot clock violations this season. I would prefer that small schools go back to 6 on 6 for girls. I have watched some really bad teams this year that would benefit from getting the ball at half court to start each possession. That would make small school girls basketball unique and more fun to watch.
Or maybe ban the press and the 3 pt shot instead.......you'd be surprised how much that would even the playing field for those smaller school girls teams, even the awful ones.



;)
 
I cannot imagine a single reason for being against the shot clock. If you’re against it, you likely played or your kids play for an inferior team
So are you suggesting a lack of a shot clock benefits inferior teams and hinders superior teams?........................

🤔
 
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Ridiculously low-scoring game in Oklahoma shows the need for shot clocks in high school basketball across the country​


It’s long overdue for shot clocks to be mandatory in all high school basketball games.

The latest example of why shot clocks are necessary came Tuesday night in Oklahoma as Weatherford High School beat Anadarko by the riveting score of 4-2. Yes, there were six combined points throughout all four quarters of the boys' basketball game and Weatherford led 2-0 at halftime.

According to reports on social media, Anadarko held the ball for much of the game because there is no shot clock in Oklahoma high school basketball. The alleged strategy was to ostensibly steal a win against the No. 3 team in Oklahoma’s Class 4A rankings. Anadarko is No. 9.

While it might have been successful in keeping the score extremely low, it wasn’t successful in actually winning the game. And even if Weatherford can claim victory on Tuesday night, there are no winners when high school basketball games feature the equivalent of three made baskets.

Here's what the first quarter looked like. Even at the sped up frame rate you can see how slow the game was.

State high school associations make the rules​

The decision to implement shot clocks in high school basketball lies with state high school athletic associations across the country. The National Federation of State High School Associations has long been against shot clocks, but that stance has begun to change significantly in recent years.

The arguments against shot clocks mainly boil down to finances and competitive equity. Installing adequate shot clock systems can cost thousands of dollars. Anything above a few hundred can be a considerable expense for a smaller high school or school district. And the absence of a shot clock can be somewhat of an equalizer between two teams with a significant talent disparity. A disciplined team can keep a game close against a team with much better players by slowing it down. Fewer possessions mean fewer opportunities for the better team to show why it’s so much better.

But who wants to watch and play in a game with just a few baskets? While Dean Smith’s four corners may be the most famous offense in basketball, the game has evolved over the past 60 years. Just look at the implementation of the 3-point line and how it’s changed the game at all levels.

Simply put, games with teams stalling for much of it aren’t fun. Aren’t high school sports ultimately designed for players to get better and have fun? It’s indisputable that games with alternating possessions on a regular basis are much more fun to watch than a stall-fest and more possessions mean more opportunities for players to get better and enjoy the game. With shot clocks universal across college basketball, a player looking to play at the next level needs to know how to play with a shot clock.

Oklahoma narrowly voted against shot clock implementation​

As of now, just eight states have shot clocks on a full-time basis, with states like Illinois experimenting with shot clocks in tournaments and other special events. Oklahoma, as you can obviously tell by now, is one of the over 40 states without a full-time shot clock.

The state came close to approving a shot clock beginning in 2024-25, however. The Oklahoma Secondary School Activities Association held a vote in January regarding the implementation of a 35-second clock for the state’s four largest classes. The OSSSA board’s vote tied at 7-7. The president’s tiebreaker vote was against a shot clock.

Anadarko coach Doug Schumpert was inducted into the Oklahoma Coaches Association Hall of Fame in 2019. He told Scorebook Live in January that a shot clock wasn’t necessary in the state because there weren’t that many teams who held the ball and slowed the game down.

“It would be interesting to see if you could sit down and watch some games with a clock right there, to see how many times would the clock go off in games right now,” Schumpert said. “The OSSAA has said they’ve done that at the state tournament and there’s not very many games where the shot clock would go off.
“But where it would affect things more than anything would be at the end of a quarter, end of a half, end of a game, where there’s two minutes left, with teams pulling the ball out and holding the ball. I don’t know if it would speed up our game that much. People are shooting the ball more than we used to; I think the game is pretty quick.”
If Anadarko slowed the game down on purpose, it's easy to vilify Schumpert for allegedly employing stall tactics just weeks after saying a shot clock wasn’t necessary because teams don’t stall like they used to. But that's also missing the larger point. A stall offense can only work if there's nothing in place to prevent it and a trait of good coaching is the ability to maximize the rules to your advantage.

The simplest way to prevent high school basketball games from ending with a score more suited to baseball is to force teams to shoot the ball more often. The sooner that more states across the country feasibly move to eliminate the possibility of a stall offense, the better it will be for everyone involved in high school basketball.

 
I have only seen a couple of shot clock violations this season. I would prefer that small schools go back to 6 on 6 for girls. I have watched some really bad teams this year that would benefit from getting the ball at half court to start each possession. That would make small school girls basketball unique and more fun to watch.

My mom grew up playing 5 on 5 in Missouri. Then they moved to Iowa where she had to play 6 on 6 for a small HS (her graduating class had 9 kids). She hated 6 on 6. When I was in HS and the girls would play 1st she was VERY vocal about how stupid 6 on 6 is.

As far as I'm concerned, 6 on 6 can stay where it currently is, the annals of history.

For that record, what about bad boys teams? Should they play 6 on 6? Our team won a game 101-6, and it wasn't that close. We could have won 140-0 with ease.
 
I have only seen a couple of shot clock violations this season. I would prefer that small schools go back to 6 on 6 for girls. I have watched some really bad teams this year that would benefit from getting the ball at half court to start each possession. That would make small school girls basketball unique and more fun to watch.
Can’t put that toothpaste back in the tube but I agree small school girls bball is atrocious
 
It was looooong overdue. Teams can no longer just sit on leads in the 4th and stall. They still have to execute.
 
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Can’t put that toothpaste back in the tube but I agree small school girls bball is atrocious
There's not a whole lot that can be done about building up rural Iowa small town athletics. Sometimes you get once in a generation athletes or a group of them from a small town or a collection of small towns nowadays, and even with a decent coach worth his salt, that can only get them so far.......and that's with boys.

You can get your communities like Newell-Fonda or some other northwest Iowa farm communities that are obsessed enough to buy in and make it cult-like, and certain farm communities are rich enough that they don't have to deal with the hurdles of poorer small town school districts, but there's so many other small town, poor school districts that just aren't capable of consistently being successful overcoming all those uphill battles they have to face each and every year.
 

Ridiculously low-scoring game in Oklahoma shows the need for shot clocks in high school basketball across the country​


It’s long overdue for shot clocks to be mandatory in all high school basketball games.

The latest example of why shot clocks are necessary came Tuesday night in Oklahoma as Weatherford High School beat Anadarko by the riveting score of 4-2. Yes, there were six combined points throughout all four quarters of the boys' basketball game and Weatherford led 2-0 at halftime.

According to reports on social media, Anadarko held the ball for much of the game because there is no shot clock in Oklahoma high school basketball. The alleged strategy was to ostensibly steal a win against the No. 3 team in Oklahoma’s Class 4A rankings. Anadarko is No. 9.

While it might have been successful in keeping the score extremely low, it wasn’t successful in actually winning the game. And even if Weatherford can claim victory on Tuesday night, there are no winners when high school basketball games feature the equivalent of three made baskets.

Here's what the first quarter looked like. Even at the sped up frame rate you can see how slow the game was.

State high school associations make the rules​

The decision to implement shot clocks in high school basketball lies with state high school athletic associations across the country. The National Federation of State High School Associations has long been against shot clocks, but that stance has begun to change significantly in recent years.

The arguments against shot clocks mainly boil down to finances and competitive equity. Installing adequate shot clock systems can cost thousands of dollars. Anything above a few hundred can be a considerable expense for a smaller high school or school district. And the absence of a shot clock can be somewhat of an equalizer between two teams with a significant talent disparity. A disciplined team can keep a game close against a team with much better players by slowing it down. Fewer possessions mean fewer opportunities for the better team to show why it’s so much better.

But who wants to watch and play in a game with just a few baskets? While Dean Smith’s four corners may be the most famous offense in basketball, the game has evolved over the past 60 years. Just look at the implementation of the 3-point line and how it’s changed the game at all levels.

Simply put, games with teams stalling for much of it aren’t fun. Aren’t high school sports ultimately designed for players to get better and have fun? It’s indisputable that games with alternating possessions on a regular basis are much more fun to watch than a stall-fest and more possessions mean more opportunities for players to get better and enjoy the game. With shot clocks universal across college basketball, a player looking to play at the next level needs to know how to play with a shot clock.

Oklahoma narrowly voted against shot clock implementation​

As of now, just eight states have shot clocks on a full-time basis, with states like Illinois experimenting with shot clocks in tournaments and other special events. Oklahoma, as you can obviously tell by now, is one of the over 40 states without a full-time shot clock.

The state came close to approving a shot clock beginning in 2024-25, however. The Oklahoma Secondary School Activities Association held a vote in January regarding the implementation of a 35-second clock for the state’s four largest classes. The OSSSA board’s vote tied at 7-7. The president’s tiebreaker vote was against a shot clock.

Anadarko coach Doug Schumpert was inducted into the Oklahoma Coaches Association Hall of Fame in 2019. He told Scorebook Live in January that a shot clock wasn’t necessary in the state because there weren’t that many teams who held the ball and slowed the game down.



If Anadarko slowed the game down on purpose, it's easy to vilify Schumpert for allegedly employing stall tactics just weeks after saying a shot clock wasn’t necessary because teams don’t stall like they used to. But that's also missing the larger point. A stall offense can only work if there's nothing in place to prevent it and a trait of good coaching is the ability to maximize the rules to your advantage.

The simplest way to prevent high school basketball games from ending with a score more suited to baseball is to force teams to shoot the ball more often. The sooner that more states across the country feasibly move to eliminate the possibility of a stall offense, the better it will be for everyone involved in high school basketball.


This deserves it's own thread. What effed up coaching. I have tried to slow a game down but I would never do this. This teaches nothing.
 
I wonder how Keokuk girls' fans/coaches think about it. That coach will run set after set after set. We played them in the playoffs a few years ago and I bet we were on defense 75% of the game. They'd run 2 or 3 sets every possession, we'd rebound, run, and shoot within 8 seconds. Then back to defense. We were very lucky to get a win and we were the ranked team.
 
My mom grew up playing 5 on 5 in Missouri. Then they moved to Iowa where she had to play 6 on 6 for a small HS (her graduating class had 9 kids). She hated 6 on 6. When I was in HS and the girls would play 1st she was VERY vocal about how stupid 6 on 6 is.

As far as I'm concerned, 6 on 6 can stay where it currently is, the annals of history.

For that record, what about bad boys teams? Should they play 6 on 6? Our team won a game 101-6, and it wasn't that close. We could have won 140-0 with ease.
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. 6 on 6 was very entertaining to watch. Rural schools in our area were against moving to 5 on 5 in the early 90s and most people I have talked to about it would love to move back to 6 on 6. It's not a lesser form of basketball.
 
So now that the regular season of year one with a shot clock in Iowa high school basketball is almost in the books, I think we can begin to ask the simple question......................

Was it necessary?..........Or was it not?


P.S. Did it at least do its job of bringing scoring to a higher level across the board, and eliminate boys 4A stall ball tactics?........
I heard this morning that a HS game in Oklahoma ended with a score of 4-2 last night. No shot clock there.

A co-worker of mine refs Iowa boys and girls BB. He was fearful the shot clock would be a distraction, but says it has gone quite well, for the most part.
 
This deserves it's own thread. What effed up coaching. I have tried to slow a game down but I would never do this. This teaches nothing.
There's plenty of things you can do to dictate the pace of the game against stall ball tactics.

But if both teams are willing to sit and wait it out, then both get to share the blame.

I had a middle school game where the other team was struggling so they went to a 2-3 zone and were instructed not to guard anyone unless the ball came near them.

We had a fairly good lead at that point so I had my player hold the ball in the corner for a good 30+ seconds, and nobody from the other team even moved a foot out to guard her.

Finally, I got bored and I could hear some of the parents growing restless so I gave them the green light again. We ended up winning by double digits, and I never saw that team run a similar defense again.

/csb
 
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When I was in high school there was no shot clock in Indiana (I have no idea if there is one right now) but it was ok because there seemed to be a gentlemen's agreement between coaches and players that everyone was going to try to keep playing and score until you got under about 30 seconds left.

Of course the moment one team decides to hang onto the ball for several minutes with a small lead is the moment a shot clock becomes necessary. Because of that I'm honestly not opposed to a shot clock at pretty much all levels of competitive basketball.
FYI, There still is no shot clock in high school basketball in Indiana. However, the setup you describe is actually what tiny Milan High School used to defeat the mighty Muncie Central Bearcats in the 1954 state championship game, 32-30. Milan's best player held the ball uncontested for over 4 minutes in the 4th quarter to finally take a last second shot to win the game in regulation.

Basically, that is what the movie Hoosiers depicted in the movie's final game, although in the movie, the larger school did decide not to hold the ball with the lead late in the game and ended up losing.
 
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one. 6 on 6 was very entertaining to watch. Rural schools in our area were against moving to 5 on 5 in the early 90s and most people I have talked to about it would love to move back to 6 on 6. It's not a lesser form of basketball.

I haven't talked to anyone in our 1A school that wishes we played 6 on 6 again, even mothers who played 6 on 6 and enjoyed think, in hindsight, it was the right move switching to 5 on 5. Including a couple of friends that played 6 on 6 at a small school then played D1.

And I never heard a girl playing say they wished they could play 6 on 6. Any that I talked to thought it looked stupid (to quote my daughters and their teammates).
 
Who wants to only play half of the game? What coach would recruit a good 6 v 6 player over a good 5 v 5 player...who is actually playing the way they play in college?
It's a relic of a time when old people thought girls couldn't play full court 5 on 5.
 
FYI, There still is no shot clock in high school basketball in Indiana. However, the setup you describe is actually what tiny Milan High School used to defeat the mighty Muncie Central Bearcats in the 1954 state championship game, 32-30. Milan's best player held the ball uncontested for over 4 minutes in the 4th quarter to finally take a last second shot to win the game in regulation.

Basically, that is what the movie Hoosiers depicted in the movie's final game, although in the movie, the larger school did decide not to hold the ball with the lead late in the game and ended up losing.

I went to a lot of games for my high school when I was going there and I never noticed this tactic from our team or any of our opponents.

That said I did hear it mentioned as a tactic that had been used in the past.

I think you kind of have to have a shot clock with competitive basketball to prevent this. I'm glad that I didn't see the tactic being used and I'm somewhat surprised it isn't used more often.
 
There's not a whole lot that can be done about building up rural Iowa small town athletics. Sometimes you get once in a generation athletes or a group of them from a small town or a collection of small towns nowadays, and even with a decent coach worth his salt, that can only get them so far.......and that's with boys.

You can get your communities like Newell-Fonda or some other northwest Iowa farm communities that are obsessed enough to buy in and make it cult-like, and certain farm communities are rich enough that they don't have to deal with the hurdles of poorer small town school districts, but there's so many other small town, poor school districts that just aren't capable of consistently being successful overcoming all those uphill battles they have to face each and every year.
I think that Kim is in NIL negotiations with Caitlin Clark andAshley Joens and planning on “cloning” them and donating their eggs to small town Iowa high school girls basketball teams. Of course, parochial and private schools will be Eligible for their eggs, too.
In about 20 years, there should be a noticeable upgrade in girls high school basketball in Iowa.
I wonder how Keokuk girls' fans/coaches think about it. That coach will run set after set after set. We played them in the playoffs a few years ago and I bet we were on defense 75% of the game. They'd run 2 or 3 sets every possession, we'd rebound, run, and shoot within 8 seconds. Then back to defense. We were very lucky to get a win and we were the ranked team.
Tom...that is the negative here. It removes a weapon from the arsenal for some basketball teams. And it is a legal strategy. And that is NOT fair.
 
Hard to say...they only played 3 total 2A schools all season. No 3A schools.
They could absolutely schedule some bigger, tougher teams, but they don't.
 
Just a heads up on our team's thoughts on the shot clock...they're leading their district final 49-35 at half time. No shot clock violations
 
Nope. Never have with their current coach. His 1st year, they had less talent than the year before and averaged 15 ppg more. The old coach was fine running more than a minute off each possession.
I'm not a run and gun kind of guy, but that seems to be the way the top modern teams wanna go.

That essentially makes the shot clock kind of pointless unless they go out of their way and lower the amount of time each team gets the ball (ex: 30 secs instead of 35), but I'll even admit there still needs to be a balance between keeping the game from being a snoozefest and rewarding defenses for their hardwork and not bailing them out because a clock expired...........................
 
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