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OT: Iowa Club Hockey

TouchdownMyPants

TouchdownMyPants

HR MVP
Aug 5, 2010
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I listened to the “On Iowa” podcast today. They mentioned a few things:

• They are 20-0
• They now play in the CR Rough Riders arena

Questions for those “in the know”:

• Where are they getting the players from? Minny, Wisky, Iowa, etc?
• Do any HR poster go to games? What’s the environment like?
• Can I buy a jersey?

Very cool to hear they are having success!
 
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TouchdownMyPants said:
I listened to the “On Iowa” podcast today. They mentioned a few things:

• They are 20-0
• They now play in the CR Rough Riders arena

Questions for those “in the know”:

• Where are they getting the players from? Minny, Wisky, Iowa, etc?
• Do any HR poster go to games? What’s the environment like?
• Can I buy a jersey?

Very cool to hear they are having success!
Click to expand...
Can’t answer many of your questions but to surprise most folks, the state of Iowa has a lot of hockey talent. I was talking with a few guys at the USA hockey coaching clinic last year and the Omaha to Quad City region is the fastest growing hockey region in the world.
People always say we can’t compete, but our mini-mites, mites and squirts routinely go up to Wisconsin, Minnesota, St. Louis and Chicago regions and win tournaments.
 
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I just liked their FB page, and noticed an undefeated season. I believe they'll eventually go D1. It would be awesome.
 
HawkinMN said:
I just liked their FB page, and noticed an undefeated season. I believe they'll eventually go D1. It would be awesome.
Click to expand...

Huge hockey fan here (Let's Go Blues!) and I'd love to see them go D-1 but don't see it happening. Hockey is an expensive sport to operate and with the annual budget concerns I don't see the university spending the money. I think the university would also question if there would be enough fan support for the program. I would tell those not familiar with the sport-Go to an NHL game and you'll be hooked.
 
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4th & 9 inches said:
Huge hockey fan here (Let's Go Blues!) and I'd love to see them go D-1 but don't see it happening. Hockey is an expensive sport to operate and with the annual budget concerns I don't see the university spending the money. I think the university would also question if there would be enough fan support for the program. I would tell those not familiar with the sport-Go to an NHL game and you'll be hooked.
Click to expand...

LGB!! I thought there was a new arena being built in Coralville? If you look at the website for the arena, it said part of the reason for the ice rink was to meet growing demands of both the men and women's hockey teams.
 
HawkinMN said:
LGB!! I thought there was a new arena being built in Coralville? If you look at the website for the arena, it said part of the reason for the ice rink was to meet growing demands of both the men and women's hockey teams.
Click to expand...

I hadn't heard about the new arena-that's great!

I used to live in St Louis and went to dozens of games-I wish I would have been exposed to hockey when I was a kid growing up.
 
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HawkinMN said:
I just liked their FB page, and noticed an undefeated season. I believe they'll eventually go D1. It would be awesome.
Click to expand...
Doesn't Iowa actually have two club mens teams?
This is a potential revenue sport, or no cost at a minimum.
 
Titanhawk2 said:
What women's sport would you add, or what men's sport would you drop to have the hockey team?
Click to expand...
The Big10 is the only conference with enough teams to have a full in conference season. Illinois is coming on board. Iowa and Nebraska would be two potential additions. Barta is against it though.
 
BigDelHawk said:
The Big10 is the only conference with enough teams to have a full in conference season. Illinois is coming on board. Iowa and Nebraska would be two potential additions. Barta is against it though.
Click to expand...
Has Barta actually come out against it? Everything I've read is that he won't comment on it.
 
Penn State only got hockey because a big donor/alum wrote a blank check to start a program. I don't know about Wisconsin but the Gophers sure took a hit in attendance when they went from the WCHA (the premier hockey conference) to the B1G.

It is the same season as Basketball and Wrestling so it would be a lot of competition to get butts in seats for the small population of the Iowa City area.
 
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DutchyFunStar said:
Penn State only got hockey because a big donor/alum wrote a blank check to start a program. I don't know about Wisconsin but the Gophers sure took a hit in attendance when they went from the WCHA (the premier hockey conference) to the B1G.

It is the same season as Basketball and Wrestling so it would be a lot of competition to get butts in seats for the small population of the Iowa City area.
Click to expand...
This would be my concern. Not that large of a fan base plus it would cannibalize other sports, like Womens Basketball in particular.
 
DutchyFunStar said:
Penn State only got hockey because a big donor/alum wrote a blank check to start a program. I don't know about Wisconsin but the Gophers sure took a hit in attendance when they went from the WCHA (the premier hockey conference) to the B1G.

It is the same season as Basketball and Wrestling so it would be a lot of competition to get butts in seats for the small population of the Iowa City area.
Click to expand...
I would think if they could be competitive and price themselves appropriately they would certainly rival the rough riders for attendance. There are plenty of huge hockey fans in the state.
 
4th & 9 inches said:
Huge hockey fan here (Let's Go Blues!) and I'd love to see them go D-1 but don't see it happening. Hockey is an expensive sport to operate and with the annual budget concerns I don't see the university spending the money. I think the university would also question if there would be enough fan support for the program. I would tell those not familiar with the sport-Go to an NHL game and you'll be hooked.
Click to expand...
It's tough to reconcile the "not enough money" excuse when every year they announce record Big Ten media payouts. Payouts are over $50 million per school per year. The conference took in $759 million in 2018, a meteoric increase from 2017 when it was $512 million.

A men's hockey program costs about $1.5 to $2 million per year to operate, per the numbers Illinois is using when looking at starting a program. That's just expenses as there will obviously be revenues made in this sport as well. You're telling me Iowa can't set aside a couple million of that $50+ million dollars to start up a program when they have a brand new arena sitting there waiting for them?

Anybody that says Iowa can't afford D1 hockey is full of sh!t.
 
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While $2M per year to start a program may seem small, there is no way they would be revenue positive. The team will have less than 20 home games per year, with most being consecutive nights against the same team. With a 4,000 seat capacity that is less than 80,000 available tickets to be sold. At $20 a seat you would have to sell out every game to approach revenue neutral.

On top of this, Iowa would have to create a women's program of equal size/opportunity. If we say it is hockey that is another $2M per year cost with relative little hope of selling out every game so men's ticket prices would have to go to $30+ which is starting to price out the average fan/family. A less expensive option would be to add women's wrestling or LAX but I'm not sure the team size would offset but would still come with a $1M+ price tag.

Iowa has the money flowing in right now but it is not like that money is not being spent currently. The $2M these new teams would cost (after realizing some revenue) would have to come from somewhere, the question is where? What non-revenue teams lose a substantial portion of their budget today or what capital projects get scrapped or which marque program loses funds/increases prices?
 
DutchyFunStar said:
Penn State only got hockey because a big donor/alum wrote a blank check to start a program. I don't know about Wisconsin but the Gophers sure took a hit in attendance when they went from the WCHA (the premier hockey conference) to the B1G.

It is the same season as Basketball and Wrestling so it would be a lot of competition to get butts in seats for the small population of the Iowa City area.
Click to expand...

I read an article a few years back discussing if another women's hockey team was added to the B1G it would force a realignment away from the current structure just due to conference rules on number of programs. I did no research to see if that is still the case before posting.

As much as new facilities and teams are wonderful the lack of focus on endowed scholarships for all sports may bite us in the butt if the tv money ever starts to dry up. Any women's Olympic sport has my vote of approval. Drives me nuts to see the number of Olympians/World Champions from the Pac 12 when B1G takes in so much more gross $. With such worthy donating opportunities with Hawkeye ties outside of the athletic department (HWC/Children's Hospital) open wallets and not open seats concern me re long term sustainability of a well coached high caliber nonrevenue sport.
 
Hawkdiver said:
While $2M per year to start a program may seem small, there is no way they would be revenue positive. The team will have less than 20 home games per year, with most being consecutive nights against the same team. With a 4,000 seat capacity that is less than 80,000 available tickets to be sold. At $20 a seat you would have to sell out every game to approach revenue neutral.

On top of this, Iowa would have to create a women's program of equal size/opportunity. If we say it is hockey that is another $2M per year cost with relative little hope of selling out every game so men's ticket prices would have to go to $30+ which is starting to price out the average fan/family. A less expensive option would be to add women's wrestling or LAX but I'm not sure the team size would offset but would still come with a $1M+ price tag.

Iowa has the money flowing in right now but it is not like that money is not being spent currently. The $2M these new teams would cost (after realizing some revenue) would have to come from somewhere, the question is where? What non-revenue teams lose a substantial portion of their budget today or what capital projects get scrapped or which marque program loses funds/increases prices?
Click to expand...

Adding women's wrestling looks great on paper for scholarship balance but there would be a lot of challenges holding duals due to lack of other programs NCAA wide. Somewhat surprised we have not added Lacrosse just due to the relative speed the sport is growing. It appears up to 12 scholarships can be added with a women's lacrosse program.

Women's hockey has 35 D1 participating schools and could add up to 18 scholarships. Men's hockey has up to 18 scholarships. To expand on your questions would we want to add on a 1 for 1 men's and women's scholarships or add a 'cheap women's lacrosse program and run light on men's hockey roster scholarships to say we added additional sports?

Lots of interesting ways to look at potential sport expansions.
 
SoDakHawk said:
It's tough to reconcile the "not enough money" excuse when every year they announce record Big Ten media payouts. Payouts are over $50 million per school per year. The conference took in $759 million in 2018, a meteoric increase from 2017 when it was $512 million.

A men's hockey program costs about $1.5 to $2 million per year to operate, per the numbers Illinois is using when looking at starting a program. That's just expenses as there will obviously be revenues made in this sport as well. You're telling me Iowa can't set aside a couple million of that $50+ million dollars to start up a program when they have a brand new arena sitting there waiting for them?

Anybody that says Iowa can't afford D1 hockey is full of sh!t.
Click to expand...

You will have to have more than a couple million to operate a D1 hockey program. Bob Motzko the Gophers head hockey coach will make $565,000 in the 2019 to 2020 hockey season. What I have read the Big Ten wants Iowa to have a hockey team and will help with the finances.

I just attended a hockey game in North Dakota's Ralph Engelstad Arena to watch my grandson who plays for Denver against the North Dakota Fighting Hawks. There weren't many seats available in the 11,643 seat arena, many of games at the Ralph are sold out.
 
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SoDakHawk said:
It's tough to reconcile the "not enough money" excuse when every year they announce record Big Ten media payouts. Payouts are over $50 million per school per year. The conference took in $759 million in 2018, a meteoric increase from 2017 when it was $512 million.

A men's hockey program costs about $1.5 to $2 million per year to operate, per the numbers Illinois is using when looking at starting a program. That's just expenses as there will obviously be revenues made in this sport as well. You're telling me Iowa can't set aside a couple million of that $50+ million dollars to start up a program when they have a brand new arena sitting there waiting for them?

Anybody that says Iowa can't afford D1 hockey is full of sh!t.
Click to expand...

LOL! You don't read the university's annual report, do you. The athletic dept as a whole is in the red a lot more than it's in the black at the end of fiscal years.
 
scruffyhawk said:
I read an article a few years back discussing if another women's hockey team was added to the B1G it would force a realignment away from the current structure just due to conference rules on number of programs. I did no research to see if that is still the case before posting.

As much as new facilities and teams are wonderful the lack of focus on endowed scholarships for all sports may bite us in the butt if the tv money ever starts to dry up. Any women's Olympic sport has my vote of approval. Drives me nuts to see the number of Olympians/World Champions from the Pac 12 when B1G takes in so much more gross $. With such worthy donating opportunities with Hawkeye ties outside of the athletic department (HWC/Children's Hospital) open wallets and not open seats concern me re long term sustainability of a well coached high caliber nonrevenue sport.
Click to expand...

You make some great points. I do know the athletics arm of UICA would love to endow more scholarships but it’s tougher to sell endowed funds than a shiny building with naming rights. Your friends and family don’t see your endowed scholarship on the wall when they attend a game at Kinnick or Carver!
 
I’ve heard $4 million to add a sport like hockey/soccer and ideally that’s endowed funding. Not gonna happen.
 
4th & 9 inches said:
LOL! You don't read the university's annual report, do you. The athletic dept as a whole is in the red a lot more than it's in the black at the end of fiscal years.
Click to expand...
Well then Gary is doing a crappy job. Anybody that has this many resources and is still in the red deserves to be fired. God forbid Iowa had Iowa State level resources. We'd never survive.

In 2013 the Big Ten reported $318.4 million in revenues. By 2018, that's just 5 years, revenues have more than doubled to over $750 million.

You all still buying the "Iowa is in the red" excuse? If you do then you are fooled by simple accounting tricks. If Iowa really is struggling to make ends meet then we need to look for a new AD because there are serious issues with fiscal responsibilities.

The Big Ten schools are sitting on more money than God.
 
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SoDakHawk said:
It's tough to reconcile the "not enough money" excuse when every year they announce record Big Ten media payouts. Payouts are over $50 million per school per year. The conference took in $759 million in 2018, a meteoric increase from 2017 when it was $512 million.

A men's hockey program costs about $1.5 to $2 million per year to operate, per the numbers Illinois is using when looking at starting a program. That's just expenses as there will obviously be revenues made in this sport as well. You're telling me Iowa can't set aside a couple million of that $50+ million dollars to start up a program when they have a brand new arena sitting there waiting for them?

Anybody that says Iowa can't afford D1 hockey is full of sh!t.
Click to expand...
And two years ago the athletic department had a surplus for the first time after 2 years of deficits. It's not $50 million in their pockets. And, I think we've seen the peak of these TV deals
 
I'll just leave this here. Examples already exist and there are facts out there if you choose to go looking for them. It's not the money pit you think it is. In fact, Illinois is projecting to be revenue positive within 5 years.

"Collegiate Consulting examined men’s hockey benchmarking within its current conference, the Big Ten. Big Ten hockey currently features seven institutions. The average Big Ten operating budget for the 2016-17 season was $1.15 million with all institutions offering the NCAA maximum of 18 scholarships. The average base salary for Big Ten head coaches is $293,333 with bonus/merit compensation ranging from $35,000 to a high of $370,000. The first assistant coach average salary is $121,667 with the second assistant coach average salary at $99,167. The average size for Big Ten hockey arenas is 9,419 seats with an average attendance of 6,485, and annual ticket revenue is at approximately $2.3 million."

"Once the Division I hockey program is fully operational, Collegiate Consulting is estimating first year annual revenue of $3.1 million rising to $4.7 million by year five with annual expenses at $3.5 million rising to $3.7 million by year five. The men’s program would have a base operating budget of $1.3 million, in addition to $877,000 allocated for 18 scholarships; a coaching salary allocation of $982,000 and administrative support expenses at $350,000. The program would hire a head coach, two assistant coaches, a director of hockey operations, administrative assistant, athletic trainer, equipment manager and strength & conditioning coach. On the administrative side, Illinois would add an Assistant Director of Ticket Operations, Marketing & Promotions position, Academic Advisor, and Assistant Sports Information Director."



Illinois Hockey Feasibility Study
 
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Titanhawk2 said:
And two years ago the athletic department had a surplus for the first time after 2 years of deficits. It's not $50 million in their pockets. And, I think we've seen the peak of these TV deals
Click to expand...
Again, with the explosion of TV money coming from the Big Ten the last 5 years, more than doubling in that time frame, if Iowa is struggling financially then there needs to be some questioned asked about the leadership and if they are doing a good job.

We haven't seen peak anything. The revenue sources may change but the amount of revenues is going to continue to grow. Example, instead of straight TV money you will see a shift in revenues coming from streaming rights, etc.
 
You know what you need when you have a cable network like BTN? Content. That's why the conference is willing to financially support startup hockey programs. I've heard $2 million extra the first couple of years as seed money to get programs off the ground.
 
Those are great projections for Illinois however it does not address the need to add another female sport and offset those expenses. Say it is hockey that is added for women and the cost is half of the men's program (lower coaches salaries and shared admin expenses) that adds an additional $1.8M in cost by year five (using Illinois numbers). The numbers above show a $1M profit by year 5 which would put the school at an overall $800k deficit. Again what program loses these funds to support the new women's hockey program?

Being an Illinois resident and hating the Illini I have a huge problem with them adding hockey. Years ago Illinois cut men's swimming to comply with title IX while Iowa added soccer and rowing. The Illinois state high school association does not have hockey but does have swimming. Swimming is one of the largest sports in the IHSA but the flagship university in the state does not offer a program for men but is considering adding a program that the state does not sponsor at the high school level. This makes no sense to me.

I have not seen anything stated as to how Illinois will handle title IX but based on past history my bet is men's sports get cut. The question will be do they take the Iowa State approach and cut baseball, do they cut wrestling (a similar sized sport), or do they cut several small team sports (golf, tennis, and gymnastics) to get there? No matter what they cut it will be sports that are sponsored at the high school level by the state but not at the flagship, in favor of a sport that is not sponsored at the high school level. Sends a bad message to the taxpayer in me. Did I say I hate the Illini?
 
Titanhawk2 said:
And two years ago the athletic department had a surplus for the first time after 2 years of deficits. It's not $50 million in their pockets. And, I think we've seen the peak of these TV deals
Click to expand...
Large capital projects and accounting tricks are what keeps the AD from pulling a surplus. The AD should not be and is not hurting financially.
 
As of 2018-2019 Illinois has over 30,000 kids playing hockey in the state and is home to 4 Tier 1 programs (maybe 5 soon). That it's not HS sanctioned a this point may have a lot to do with politics, I have no idea, but the participation numbers are pretty dang good. For comparison, Minnesota has 57,923 registered players and is home to 5 Division 1 programs (maybe 6 soon with St. Thomas). 5 D1 programs vs. 0. That's messed up.

As always, I'll support my arguments with facts.

Numbers
 
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