OT: Iowa High School basketball shot clock?

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

I do not get how it is a part of the game when at that highest of levels there is a shot clock.

Just this past Friday, Our team lost a game due to delays and dribble outs. We had 1 foul with 4:30 left in the game and trailed by 4. Needless to say the game was won by the other team due to this strategy. (Lol no it wasn't....)

It is "basketball", but it is not how the game is played in college or pro ball (So? College ball is different from pro ball too, btw....), and ultimately you are preparing these kids to try to reach that next level. (Do you actually know how many kids go on to play college basketball at any level? I don't think the lack of a shot clock is what's keeping them from making that jump............)

I get the concept, but it is playing scared in my mind. And it will get you caught in the end by more talented teams, or teams that are getting better calls in games by the refs.

Just so you know, camping in the lane zone defenses aren't a thing in the NBA either, and not just because the athletes are better. There's also the defensive 3 second rule which forces defenses to mostly operate outside the lane and allows for more freedom of movement.........that is also not the case in high school (or college).

It's also why college and more and more in HS too, teams are relying way too heavily on the 3 pt shot

(To be fair, they do in the NBA, but half the time the pros are simply showing off, and not just settling for 3s because they can't penetrate sagging help defense, especially when officials allow defenses like MSU and Wisconsin to utilize the arm bar and hand-check "defensive strategy" imjustsayin............................)

 

[Greenway12]

Some how, some way, California, New York, North and South Dakota, and Rhode Island (among other states) have found a way to buy and operate shot clocks for their high school games. How did they do it? It's a miracle!

Also, USA Basketball, FIBA, and the NBA have recommended using shot clocks in high school, but what do they know...

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Some how, some way, California, New York, North and South Dakota, and Rhode Island (among other states) have found a way to buy and operate shot clocks for their high school games. How did they do it? It's a miracle! (It is. Wonder how CA and NY's poorest schools paid for them. Also, how much more is that helping their game at the lower levels? If your only answer is "welp.....at least there's no stall ball" then it's not worth it. Good luck! )

Also, USA Basketball, FIBA, and the NBA have recommended using shot clocks in high school, but what do they know... (Is that why the pro game has gotten worse, and viewership has tanked?..........I have more interest in the NHL regular season than both the NBA and MLB seasons combined. They offer nothing, and that's not an opinion, even if you disagree. )

 

[MepoDawg#]

Just so you know, camping in the lane zone defenses aren't a thing in the NBA either, and not just because the athletes are better. There's also the defensive 3 second rule which forces defenses to mostly operate outside the lane and allows for more freedom of movement.........that is also not the case in high school (or college).

It's also why college and more and more in HS too, teams are relying way too heavily on the 3 pt shot

(To be fair, they do in the NBA, but half the time the pros are simply showing off, and not just settling for 3s because they can't penetrate sagging help defense, especially when officials allow defenses like MSU and Wisconsin to utilize the arm bar and hand-check "defensive strategy" imjustsayin............................)

But they do play zone defense some, well that is is they play defense. But it wouldn’t be hard to institute defensive 3 seconds in high school. However they’d have to call it, they don’t call offensive 3 seconds nearly enough.

 

[CalmHawk]

Just so you know, camping in the lane zone defenses aren't a thing in the NBA either, and not just because the athletes are better. There's also the defensive 3 second rule which forces defenses to mostly operate outside the lane and allows for more freedom of movement.........that is also not the case in high school (or college).

It's also why college and more and more in HS too, teams are relying way too heavily on the 3 pt shot

(To be fair, they do in the NBA, but half the time the pros are simply showing off, and not just settling for 3s because they can't penetrate sagging help defense, especially when officials allow defenses like MSU and Wisconsin to utilize the arm bar and hand-check "defensive strategy" imjustsayin............................)

We do not play zone defense........ It is perfectly legal, I get it, but calling a TO and saying only layups and force them to foul by dribbling back and forth a half court with over half the 4th quarter to play is only possible because there is no shot clock. Iowa cannot do that in the big ten, they have to play the game.

No sure what your angle is on the NBA and shooting 3s thing. That is the new style of basketball that won the title for the Raptors and Warriors. positionless basketball and 5 out motion offenses. with zone now legal in the NBA..... what do defenses have to do with implementing a shot clock and stalling?

 

[SSG T]

Just so you know, camping in the lane zone defenses aren't a thing in the NBA either, and not just because the athletes are better. There's also the defensive 3 second rule which forces defenses to mostly operate outside the lane and allows for more freedom of movement.........that is also not the case in high school (or college).

It's also why college and more and more in HS too, teams are relying way too heavily on the 3 pt shot

(To be fair, they do in the NBA, but half the time the pros are simply showing off, and not just settling for 3s because they can't penetrate sagging help defense, especially when officials allow defenses like MSU and Wisconsin to utilize the arm bar and hand-check "defensive strategy" imjustsayin............................)

The NBA relies on the three so much because, assuming decent shooters, it's the most efficient. 3s, dunks and free throws.

Otherwise, agreed completely.

 

[SSG T]

But they do play zone defense some, well that is is they play defense. But it wouldn’t be hard to institute defensive 3 seconds in high school. However they’d have to call it, they don’t call offensive 3 seconds nearly enough.

The good teams in the NBA play really, really good defense. It's not as noticeable because everyone in the NBA is so good at scoring. Good college defenses are far more apparent because most college teams really aren't very good at scoring.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

We do not play zone defense........ It is perfectly legal, I get it, but calling a TO and saying only layups and force them to foul by dribbling back and forth a half court with over half the 4th quarter to play is only possible because there is no shot clock. (Is that the only good thing a shot clock is for?........I do find it funny that it's usually good teams, or teams that can handle the ball well, but maybe lack the outside shooting accuracy to bomb away from anywhere on the court imjustsayin, that take advantage of the Stall Ball tactic......while bad teams would just get pressed into oblivion by any good, aggressive team with a pulse willing to pressure a bad team the full 84 ft (heaven forbid they dare try this against a "good" team tho.....imjustsayinagain)

Iowa cannot do that in the big ten, they have to play the game. (Okay.....well I guess it's a good thing we're the top scoring offense in the conference, then. )

No sure what your angle is on the NBA and shooting 3s thing. (The angle is it's f***ring awful.....I shouldn't need to be more clear....just watch the games.) That is the new style of basketball that won the title for the Raptors and Warriors. (Yeah, and?....) positionless basketball and 5 out motion offenses. (Yeah, and?....) with zone now legal in the NBA..... what do defenses have to do with implementing a shot clock and stalling? (Is that a rhetorical question that you're going to answer for yourself because you should be able to?..........)

Friends?

 

[CalmHawk]

Friends?

I mean, it is legal and works to win games. I just think doing the stall ball routine early in the 4th after getting the lead should not happen in basketball. It takes away the aggressiveness of the game and is boring in my eyes and a lot of others.

When you are doing this you are trying to draw the defense out of position, but when the defense is out of position and pressing (which we did and do) and you dribble to the baseline and back out to half court for a solid minute without taking shots that are open (even layups) it is bush league in my eyes. Yes it is legal, but playing scared should not be taught to the youth.

 

[HawkTex]

Figured I'd take this debate over here since Iowa Preps is deader than the New England Patriots' dynasty.

One big debate that is not dead, right now, is the topic of bringing the shot clock to Iowa High School basketball.

From what I've seen and read, more people in the public are for it, than against, however, logistical issues, first and foremost, (among other concerns) have kept State officials from really pushing for this to become a reality any time soon.

I, personally, do not think a shot clock is needed for the high school varsity level in Iowa, and do not foresee it coming within the next 5 years even.

I won't rule out the possibility that it may become a reality in the future, but it definitely won't be the near-future.

And yes, such a change would need to be incorporated for both boys AND girls basketball, and as a coach I can tell you that girls basketball does NOT need a shot clock and would NOT benefit from it either. And you all can deal with that, if you disagree.


With that said, what are your off topic (not HROT) thoughts on this subject?

The Shot Clock should be part of the HS game. There is no legitimate reason to keep it.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

I mean, it is legal and works to win games. I just think doing the stall ball routine early in the 4th after getting the lead should not happen in basketball. It takes away the aggressiveness of the game and is boring in my eyes and a lot of others.

When you are doing this you are trying to draw the defense out of position, but when the defense is out of position and pressing (which we did and do) and you dribble to the baseline and back out to half court for a solid minute without taking shots that are open (even layups) it is bush league in my eyes. Yes it is legal, but playing scared should not be taught to the youth.

I don't think this is being taught to levels below Varsity/JV, at least not to a point where it's a staple of a team's identity.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

The Shot Clock should be part of the HS game. There is no legitimate reason to keep it.

Ummm.........So you want the shot clock rule instituted and then eventually drop it?


I could appreciate such a troll job by the Association......

 

[CalmHawk]

I don't think this is being taught to levels below Varsity/JV, at least not to a point where it's a staple of a team's identity.

It is a strategy used for HS teams throughout the history of Iowa HS basketball. What is it teaching kids? that you have to attack on defense and play out of position to get the other team to react? The highest levels of basketball stress being in position on defense. Well this strategy is basically backwards because it forces defenses to be out of position. And waste 2 minutes dribbling the ball back and forth until a foul is called. It is bad for basketball. Legal, but bad for basketball.

 

[Legend12]

as a longtime official......it’s needed

I agree 100%

 

[CalmHawk]

Maybe there needs to be a delay of game or something when this kind of strategy occurs like it has already this year. I think if you are playing defense against the stall, try a half court press, extended 1-3-1, man defense picking up at 3 quarters court. There are ways to combat this, but when it is a staple of style it is dumb.

 

[hawkaeg80]

Back in the day, I think Mich. St. did this one game vs. the Hawks. The half time score was something like 8-6. AWFUL. That's not basketball. I don't know what it is, but basketball? No.

 

[Legend12]

Back in the day, I think Mich. St. did this one game vs. the Hawks. The half time score was something like 8-6. AWFUL. That's not basketball. I don't know what it is, but basketball? No.

Last time I saw it Bobby Plump hit a game winner to win the state title, so that was cool.

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

Back in the day, I think Mich. St. did this one game vs. the Hawks. The half time score was something like 8-6. AWFUL. That's not basketball. I don't know what it is, but basketball? No.

The Todd Lickliter era wasnt that long ago

 

[Legend12]

The Todd Lickliter era wasnt that long ago

That was boring AND bad basketball, not a good combo.

 

[HawkRugged17]

Last time I saw it Bobby Plump hit a game winner to win the state title, so that was cool.