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OT TCU vs ISU

iahawkeyes17

iahawkeyes17

HB Heisman
Apr 22, 2014
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Watched game today with TCU taking down the clones. I think TCU will be a rising team in big 12 next couple of years and same for college bball. Never been a basketball school But a huge steal by getting a former alum Jamie Dixon from Pitt who I think is a very under rated coach. Believe announcers said just got a new arena as well. Already impressed how Dixon inherited a program in a poor similar shape to what Fran had when he got to Iowa and is already turning it around so quickly.
 
DavenportHawk8 said:
TCU had always been competitive in the Big 12. TCU was not even close to the level that Iowa was when Fran came into town. Not even close.
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Agreed. If I was an ISU fan I would be worried about the recent coaching hires into the league, Dixon, Underwood, Beard all were much more accomplished than Prohm was when he got hired by ISU. Easy to see ISU falling back to McDermott type results within the next few years.
 
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DavenportHawk8 said:
TCU had always been competitive in the Big 12. TCU was not even close to the level that Iowa was when Fran came into town. Not even close.
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Since joining big 12 TCU has had conference records of 2-16, 0-18, 4-14 & 2-16 last season. This season 3-2 and with one more win would tie for most they've had in big 12 play. 5 more wins and would equal total they've had past 4 years combined since they've joined big 12. Maybe program wasn't as much of dumpster fire as Iowa was when Fran took over but it has been pretty bad since they've joined the conference.
 
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iahawkeyes17 said:
Since joining big 12 TCU has had conference records of 2-16, 0-18, 4-14 & 2-16 last season. This season 3-2 and with one more win would tie for most they've had in big 12 play. 5 more wins and would equal total they've had past 4 years combined since they've joined big 12. Maybe program wasn't as much of dumpster fire as Iowa was when Fran took over but it has been pretty bad since they've joined the conference.
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That was also when 7 out of 10 teams were qualifying for the tournament. Under Lick Iowa's records were 6-12, 5-13, 4-14. Mind you their wins were vs PSU, Minny, and NW most of the time. Not exactly world beaters in any stretch.

Lick did have at least one "big" win each year. The year they beat MSU at home 47-43 (people said that game set basketball back 20 years). But overall his teams got worse while at Iowa.

Iowa was in a WAY WORSE position than what TCU was in. Also the Big 12 is probably the worst its been in 20years. There are really only 4-5 (Baylor, KU, KSU, WVU, and ISU) tournament teams. TCU could possibly be the 6th if they get some key wins.
 
There is a soap opera going on in Chicago. I've seen it happen 30 times in the past and would be very surprised if the ending is any different this time. The press and players are questioning Hoiberg's tactics and candor. The public outcry will get louder. Management will give him a "vote of confidence" just before they fire him.

It's his own fault. He messed with perfect. He was bullet proof in Ames with lots of love and big pay checks for life. To think that he could improve that situation by coming to the west side of Chicago was fools gold.

In the meantime, Iowa State has it's challenges. Over the last 60 years, they have overcome many of those challenges and put together a pretty good highlight reel. As opposed to many here, I can't hate 'em. I grew up near them. I had two neighbors play for them. They may never again have what the had with Hoiberg. And, when the Bulls fire him, Fred can count his money but he can't go home.
 
JRingo said:
There is a soap opera going on in Chicago. I've seen it happen 30 times in the past and would be very surprised if the ending is any different this time. The press and players are questioning Hoiberg's tactics and candor. The public outcry will get louder. Management will give him a "vote of confidence" just before they fire him.

It's his own fault. He messed with perfect. He was bullet proof in Ames with lots of love and big pay checks for life. To think that he could improve that situation by coming to the west side of Chicago was fools gold.

In the meantime, Iowa State has it's challenges. Over the last 60 years, they have overcome many of those challenges and put together a pretty good highlight reel. As opposed to many here, I can't hate 'em. I grew up near them. I had two neighbors play for them. They may never again have what the had with Hoiberg. And, when the Bulls fire him, Fred can count his money but he can't go home.
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Iowa State would take him back in a heart beat
 
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DavenportHawk8 said:
That was also when 7 out of 10 teams were qualifying for the tournament. Under Lick Iowa's records were 6-12, 5-13, 4-14. Mind you their wins were vs PSU, Minny, and NW most of the time. Not exactly world beaters in any stretch.

Lick did have at least one "big" win each year. The year they beat MSU at home 47-43 (people said that game set basketball back 20 years). But overall his teams got worse while at Iowa.

Iowa was in a WAY WORSE position than what TCU was in. Also the Big 12 is probably the worst its been in 20years. There are really only 4-5 (Baylor, KU, KSU, WVU, and ISU) tournament teams. TCU could possibly be the 6th if they get some key wins.
Click to expand...

Yeah give you that Lick probably worse. Tells you how good of coaches Fran and Dixon are. Easy to win when you inherit teams like prohm and gard at Wisconsin another to take a cellar dewellar. Felt like Dixon under appreciated and always little forgotten with some bigger name coaches in big east and acc. Really hope TCU makes the tourney this year.
 
iahawkeyes17 said:
DavenportHawk8 said:
That was also when 7 out of 10 teams were qualifying for the tournament. Under Lick Iowa's records were 6-12, 5-13, 4-14. Mind you their wins were vs PSU, Minny, and NW most of the time. Not exactly world beaters in any stretch.

Lick did have at least one "big" win each year. The year they beat MSU at home 47-43 (people said that game set basketball back 20 years). But overall his teams got worse while at Iowa.

Iowa was in a WAY WORSE position than what TCU was in. Also the Big 12 is probably the worst its been in 20years. There are really only 4-5 (Baylor, KU, KSU, WVU, and ISU) tournament teams. TCU could possibly be the 6th if they get some key wins.
Click to expand...

Yeah give you that Lick probably worse. Tells you how good of coaches Fran and Dixon are. Easy to win when you inherit teams like prohm and gard at Wisconsin another to take a cellar dewellar. Felt like Dixon under appreciated and always little forgotten with some bigger name coaches in big east and acc. Really hope TCU makes the tourney this year.
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I went to the Texas-TCU game this week. Dixon completely out coached Shaka down the stretch. His team actually ran an offense. First time I've ever seen Dixon coach in person...very intense, especially with his guards. The have a freshman point guard (Fischer) that was the #37 player in the country and another super quick soph guard. They share the ball very well. Dixon's teams at Pitt made the NCAA tournament 11 of his 13 seasons there. I think I read he had the highest winning % for anyone in their first 7-8 seasons in a job at 72.7%.
TCU beat Texas in Austin for the 1st time since 1986 when Dixon lead all scorers as a guard for TCU. TCU has very little hoops tradition and is a tiny school relative to Iowa. They did just renovate their small arena (I saw it this fall) and it is very nice.
Dixon is a stud and I wish him well. Seems like a good guy.
 
DavenportHawk8 said:
That was also when 7 out of 10 teams were qualifying for the tournament. Under Lick Iowa's records were 6-12, 5-13, 4-14. Mind you their wins were vs PSU, Minny, and NW most of the time. Not exactly world beaters in any stretch.

Lick did have at least one "big" win each year. The year they beat MSU at home 47-43 (people said that game set basketball back 20 years). But overall his teams got worse while at Iowa.

Iowa was in a WAY WORSE position than what TCU was in. Also the Big 12 is probably the worst its been in 20years. There are really only 4-5 (Baylor, KU, KSU, WVU, and ISU) tournament teams. TCU could possibly be the 6th if they get some key wins.
Click to expand...

That Iowa/MSU game set basketball back 70 years, not 20. 20 years before that, Iowa was averaging in the 80s and 90s.
 
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JRingo said:
There is a soap opera going on in Chicago. I've seen it happen 30 times in the past and would be very surprised if the ending is any different this time. The press and players are questioning Hoiberg's tactics and candor. The public outcry will get louder. Management will give him a "vote of confidence" just before they fire him.

It's his own fault. He messed with perfect. He was bullet proof in Ames with lots of love and big pay checks for life. To think that he could improve that situation by coming to the west side of Chicago was fools gold.

In the meantime, Iowa State has it's challenges. Over the last 60 years, they have overcome many of those challenges and put together a pretty good highlight reel. As opposed to many here, I can't hate 'em. I grew up near them. I had two neighbors play for them. They may never again have what the had with Hoiberg. And, when the Bulls fire him, Fred can count his money but he can't go home.
Click to expand...

It wasn't perfect for him. Hoiberg made it obvious that he hated recruited, which I don't blame him for at all, it's a really creepy process. It also sounds like he didn't like living in a small city like Ames with all the attention on him. He wanted to coach at the highest level, can't blame him at all for that.
 
iahawkeyes17 said:
Watched game today with TCU taking down the clones. I think TCU will be a rising team in big 12 next couple of years and same for college bball. Never been a basketball school But a huge steal by getting a former alum Jamie Dixon from Pitt who I think is a very under rated coach. Believe announcers said just got a new arena as well. Already impressed how Dixon inherited a program in a poor similar shape to what Fran had when he got to Iowa and is already turning it around so quickly.
Click to expand...
I hadn't kept up on scores yesterday and watched the news and sports on KCCI. Guy started out by talking up a storm about ISU's Jackson and continued with video coverage of his scoring and talked about nothing else it seemed to me. Upshot was I thought ISU must have won. Nope, very last he gave the score.
 
IamHawkeye said:
Anyone re remember the MSU game in 1980?
Click to expand...

Remember it? I was at it. Arrived early and had court side seat to Heathcoat giving a pre-game interview. I joined in loudly with all the booing and cat calls. But a secret? I liked it. Completely understood the strategy and why not try it. Stalling for the whole first half to protect one foul prone guy? Would have been a genius move if he'd won.

I think my a$$ is still sore from all the times I sat on the Field House Bleachers.
 
33hawkfan said:
It wasn't perfect for him. Hoiberg made it obvious that he hated recruited, which I don't blame him for at all, it's a really creepy process. It also sounds like he didn't like living in a small city like Ames with all the attention on him. He wanted to coach at the highest level, can't blame him at all for that.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I don't think Fred has any interest in coaching at the college level again.
 
ISU is 11-5. Literally had a shot to beat Gonzaga, Cincy, and Baylor. No issues losing to those teams. Totally outplayed by Iowa. Tight game at TCU - kinda went in the tank in last 2 minutes and lost by 7. TCU definitely on the rise. My nephew is a student @ TCU and went to game - said it was intense the entire - up for grabs until last 2 mins when ISU went cold. They are about where they should be. We'll see how they do vs KU tomorrow night???

Watch the sports in CR (KCRG + KGAN) some time. 90% of the highlights are Iowa baskets regardless of outcome. Homerism isnt limited to KCCI. Nature of the beast in TV land I guess.
 
stender72865 said:
ISU is 11-5. Literally had a shot to beat Gonzaga, Cincy, and Baylor. No issues losing to those teams. Totally outplayed by Iowa. Tight game at TCU - kinda went in the tank in last 2 minutes and lost by 7. TCU definitely on the rise. My nephew is a student @ TCU and went to game - said it was intense the entire - up for grabs until last 2 mins when ISU went cold. They are about where they should be. We'll see how they do vs KU tomorrow night???

Watch the sports in CR (KCRG + KGAN) some time. 90% of the highlights are Iowa baskets regardless of outcome. Homerism isnt limited to KCCI. Nature of the beast in TV land I guess.
Click to expand...

Does your nephew drink a lot? TCU was up by 13 and shooting free throws with under 3 mins left before ISU made a run to get back into it. TCU was in control of the game the entire second half.
 
I think he does :)

Your point is fair...

He feelimg was for a team like TCU (without much success) to beat ISU is a stepping stone. Overall, just an intense game.

ISU is certainly no KU, OU, etc., but they are "above" TCU.....for now

Good win for TCU - Dixon will have them in top 1/2 of conference sooner than later.
 
stender72865 said:
I think he does :)

Your point is fair...

He feelimg was for a team like TCU (without much success) to beat ISU is a stepping stone. Overall, just an intense game.

ISU is certainly no KU, OU, etc., but they are "above" TCU.....for now

Good win for TCU - Dixon will have them in top 1/2 of conference sooner than later.
Click to expand...

Agreed. He's a really coach and there's a lot of good players for him to recruit without ever leaving the state.
 
33hawkfan said:
Does your nephew drink a lot? TCU was up by 13 and shooting free throws with under 3 mins left before ISU made a run to get back into it. TCU was in control of the game the entire second half.
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You are answering me?
stender72865 said:
ISU is 11-5. Literally had a shot to beat Gonzaga, Cincy, and Baylor. No issues losing to those teams. Totally outplayed by Iowa. Tight game at TCU - kinda went in the tank in last 2 minutes and lost by 7. TCU definitely on the rise. My nephew is a student @ TCU and went to game - said it was intense the entire - up for grabs until last 2 mins when ISU went cold. They are about where they should be. We'll see how they do vs KU tomorrow night???

Watch the sports in CR (KCRG + KGAN) some time. 90% of the highlights are Iowa baskets regardless of outcome. Homerism isnt limited to KCCI. Nature of the beast in TV land I guess.
Click to expand...
You are answering me? I've watched KCCI plenty and never seen them just go on without a hint of what happened while showing one player. Who I believe was not the top scorer. Tonight they hinted about the KU loss pretty soon even though they showed ISU baskets.
 
DavenportHawk8 said:
That was also when 7 out of 10 teams were qualifying for the tournament. Under Lick Iowa's records were 6-12, 5-13, 4-14. Mind you their wins were vs PSU, Minny, and NW most of the time. Not exactly world beaters in any stretch.

Lick did have at least one "big" win each year. The year they beat MSU at home 47-43 (people said that game set basketball back 20 years). But overall his teams got worse while at Iowa.

Iowa was in a WAY WORSE position than what TCU was in. Also the Big 12 is probably the worst its been in 20years. There are really only 4-5 (Baylor, KU, KSU, WVU, and ISU) tournament teams. TCU could possibly be the 6th if they get some key wins.
Click to expand...

You couldn't be more wrong about TCU. Their last three tourney appearances:

1998, 1987, and 1971. Three times in 46 years. Their last winning conference record was 2001. Their conference record since Billy Tubbs left in 2002 is 56-174.

As far as the Big 12 goes this year, by any measure it's excellent. Sagarin, Kenpom, RPI, BPI, every metric has it #1. Bracket Matrix has 7 of the 10 teams in. That said, I think only 6 make it and I think ISU gets left out.
 
ISUBryce said:
You couldn't be more wrong about TCU. Their last three tourney appearances:

1998, 1987, and 1971. Three times in 46 years. Their last winning conference record was 2001. Their conference record since Billy Tubbs left in 2002 is 56-174.

As far as the Big 12 goes this year, by any measure it's excellent. Sagarin, Kenpom, RPI, BPI, every metric has it #1. Bracket Matrix has 7 of the 10 teams in. That said, I think only 6 make it and I think ISU gets left out.
Click to expand...

Sorry but Iowa was a complete dumpster Fire. The argument that TCU was just as bad as Iowa (under lick) is hilarious. There is no comparison TCU was at least competitive in their games. Iowa was barely scoring 20pts a half under lick. There was no excitement around the program and it was falling faster than it was rising. TCU only got a couple of Big 12 wins last year, but they were at least competitive in them. Their style of play was better and Dixon did not walk into an empty cupboard by any means. Fran walked right into a pile of crap.

TCU is benefiting from the Big 12 being weaker than normal. Sorry but KU, Baylor, and WVU are all very strong teams and that's why its rated the top conference. After those 3 who do you have? Kansas St, OU, OSU, ISU, TX, TCU, and TT?? I would go on record and say that the Big 12 was very strong (meaning there were 4-5 teams that could of won the league) in recent years. This year its looking like a battle between 3 teams. The other 7 are all average or close in terms of skill.

TCU>Iowa when Fran walked through the door. Not even close.
 
TCU is one of the worst programs in all of college basketball and has been for a long time. I guess I'll agree to disagree there.

Fran's first year at Iowa was 2011. 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, and 2006 Iowa was ranked higher in KenPom. TCU was worse than Iowa every one of those years. I think you're wrong there and no offense the data backs me up.

As far as the Big 12 goes this year, it's excellent.

The Big 12 has 8 teams in the top 40 of KenPom.
The Big 12 has 8 teams in the top 40 of Sagarin.

This is as deep as the Big 12 has been in a long time.

For comparison's sake, the Big 10 has 14 teams and only has 4 top 40 teams in Kenpom and 7 in Sagarin.
 
ISUBryce said:
TCU is one of the worst programs in all of college basketball and has been for a long time. I guess I'll agree to disagree there.

Fran's first year at Iowa was 2011. 2010, 2009, 2008, 2007, and 2006 Iowa was ranked higher in KenPom. TCU was worse than Iowa every one of those years. I think you're wrong there and no offense the data backs me up.

As far as the Big 12 goes this year, it's excellent.

The Big 12 has 8 teams in the top 40 of KenPom.
The Big 12 has 8 teams in the top 40 of Sagarin.

This is as deep as the Big 12 has been in a long time.

For comparison's sake, the Big 10 has 14 teams and only has 4 top 40 teams in Kenpom and 7 in Sagarin.
Click to expand...

TCU was 136th the year before Dixon took over in KenPom, Iowa was 174th the year before Fran did. Why would what TCU was ranked in 2006 matter at all in this discussion?
 
I realize the rankings and what not. But Blake Larsen was also a 5 star recruit. So that tells you that Rankings mean squat.

What Lickliter did to the Iowa program was horrible. He took the program down (Alford started it) and took it to the depths. Fran had to work his butt off to get it back to somewhat remotely competitive.

Dixon walked into a decent situation at TCU. It wasn't great, but it wasn't near the debacle that Iowa was.

Also the Big 12 is down. ISU isn't good, Oklahoma got beat by UNI, Texas is god awful. There are 3 of the normal top dogs in the conference struggling. Then you have TCU, Texas Tech, and Oklahoma St.

Kansas, Baylor, WVU, and K-State are legit and very good. I will give you that. The rest of the league is not as good as it normally is.
 
JRingo said:
There is a soap opera going on in Chicago. I've seen it happen 30 times in the past and would be very surprised if the ending is any different this time. The press and players are questioning Hoiberg's tactics and candor. The public outcry will get louder. Management will give him a "vote of confidence" just before they fire him.

It's his own fault. He messed with perfect. He was bullet proof in Ames with lots of love and big pay checks for life. To think that he could improve that situation by coming to the west side of Chicago was fools gold.

In the meantime, Iowa State has it's challenges. Over the last 60 years, they have overcome many of those challenges and put together a pretty good highlight reel. As opposed to many here, I can't hate 'em. I grew up near them. I had two neighbors play for them. They may never again have what the had with Hoiberg. And, when the Bulls fire him, Fred can count his money but he can't go home.
Click to expand...
Fred didn't mess with perfect, Jamie Pollard did, because Crybaby Jamie can't stand having someone bigger than him at that university.
 
DavenportHawk8 said:
I realize the rankings and what not. But Blake Larsen was also a 5 star recruit. So that tells you that Rankings mean squat.

What Lickliter did to the Iowa program was horrible. He took the program down (Alford started it) and took it to the depths. Fran had to work his butt off to get it back to somewhat remotely competitive.

Dixon walked into a decent situation at TCU. It wasn't great, but it wasn't near the debacle that Iowa was.

Also the Big 12 is down. ISU isn't good, Oklahoma got beat by UNI, Texas is god awful. There are 3 of the normal top dogs in the conference struggling. Then you have TCU, Texas Tech, and Oklahoma St.

Kansas, Baylor, WVU, and K-State are legit and very good. I will give you that. The rest of the league is not as good as it normally is.
Click to expand...

Some teams are down, some teams are up. Overall, the league is very good compared to past years and is excellent compared to the rest of the NCAA.

TCU is #32 in KenPom and #25 in the RPI. Barring a meltdown they are going to be in the tournament.

KU, BU, WVU, and most likely TCU are all going to be in. I think at least two of ISU, KSU, OSU, and Tech are going to be in. ISU has an RPI of 50, KSU 53, OSU 58. and Tech 65. Sagarin and KenPom are all much higher than that.

You may not think the league is good, but objective ranking systems do, and the committee uses those to help inform their decisions.
 
ISUBryce said:
Using a sample size of one. Great idea.
Click to expand...

I could do more, but it would take way too long.

The "eye" test tells me the Big 12 is down. #'s can talk all they want, but the "eye" test tells me that the Big 12 and Big 10 are down. The ACC & Big East are stronger than normal. It happens conferences go in cycles. Last few years the BIG 12 was a gauntlet with ISU, OSU, KU, BU, TX, WVU, OU and K-State all being ranked or near ranked and were very solid teams. Hell it was tough to win on the road at those places. Now it seems like this year that only WVU, BU, KU, KSU are the only top 4 dogs. Teams 5-10 are even and could knock each other off on any given night. There is more parity in the league this year, than in recent years.
 
Even if you think the B12 is down, the fact is they're the #1 RPI conference and they're all top 100 teams. They'll likely get 7 teams in barring ISU completely melting down.
 
ISUBryce said:
DavenportHawk8 said:
I realize the rankings and what not. But Blake Larsen was also a 5 star recruit. So that tells you that Rankings mean squat.

What Lickliter did to the Iowa program was horrible. He took the program down (Alford started it) and took it to the depths. Fran had to work his butt off to get it back to somewhat remotely competitive.

Dixon walked into a decent situation at TCU. It wasn't great, but it wasn't near the debacle that Iowa was.

Also the Big 12 is down. ISU isn't good, Oklahoma got beat by UNI, Texas is god awful. There are 3 of the normal top dogs in the conference struggling. Then you have TCU, Texas Tech, and Oklahoma St.

Kansas, Baylor, WVU, and K-State are legit and very good. I will give you that. The rest of the league is not as good as it normally is.
Click to expand...

Some teams are down, some teams are up. Overall, the league is very good compared to past years and is excellent compared to the rest of the NCAA.

TCU is #32 in KenPom and #25 in the RPI. Barring a meltdown they are going to be in the tournament.

KU, BU, WVU, and most likely TCU are all going to be in. I think at least two of ISU, KSU, OSU, and Tech are going to be in. ISU has an RPI of 50, KSU 53, OSU 58. and Tech 65. Sagarin and KenPom are all much higher than that.

You may not think the league is good, but objective ranking systems do, and the committee uses those to help inform their decisions.
Click to expand...
Big 12 is good this year, I agree. Isu, okie, and okie state are down, but tcu, tech, and Baylor are up, leveling it out. Acc is definitely the toughest though, I don't care what any objective ranking says.
 
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