Our current backcourt....

[perryhawk]

Ulis is an interesting case. IF he could make the shots at the rim that he gets and then reduce turnovers......he'd really be a solid PG. Are each of those possible? The answer is yes of course. Reducing turnovers appears to be mostly a decision making problem. The way he struggles scoring at the rim is hard to understand,

Strengths are that he plays decent defense, he's a pretty good passer, and a decent free throw shooter.

Connor really is steady as a rock. I am no expert...but it appears to me that the only time he misses a 3 point shot is when he is leaning slightly. When he leans back, he's short. When he leans left or right, that is the direction he is off. This guy is worth his weight in gold.

Tony has kind of been like Payton...just not as much of a slump. IF he can find his groove we could be in for a good stretch run. I think that getting back in that groove pretty much comes down to hitting his shot with regularity. Right now he appears to be playing frustrated and pressing a bit. That has often resulted in his complaining to the ref while not running back on defense like he should/can. He has been good defensively and did a really good job rebounding today...

Dasonte.....he's a freshman with a bright future. Needs to get stronger and get in the flow...I think he will take a good step forward next year and can still be a factor this year depending on how things go.

Josh D......just like Dasonte, he's playing like a freshman but seems to be more in tune defensively. He needs to get stronger and get some more time behind him related to that injury. Once he gets stronger and plays more confidently he will be a very good piece for this team.

Would love to hear how Nimmers looks in practice.

Seems like we play against teams with bigger, more skilled guard courts that are better than our guys (like Rutgers today) and yet, we come out on top. Great job of coaching by Fran.

 

[hawk-i bob]

agree with Ulis shooting'.. just not sure if he is 'a shooter'...well career to date percentages says he isn't...the two 3's today were a bonus, ironically his career ft% is over 80%.

his turnovers to me are not an issue for someone who handles the ball...in roughly 955 career minutes he has a total of 55 turns'...this year his turnover-to-minute ratio is around 20, in averaging 22 minutes per game...he averages a little over 1 TO per game.

he has had two high turnover games - 6 vs. ISU & today 4, other than that he has been a decent ball handler.
He did not turn the ball over today in the last 14 minutes of the game.

in comparison al-be-it much less minutes, Bowen has played 201 minutes with 20 turnovers, which averages around 1 per 10 minutes played...which is not unusual for a freshman...today he really looked like a freshman with two turnovers in his 4 minutes. He'll get better, his quick bucket drive in the first half was nice.

agree on TonyP ... his penetration with ball has been suspect, he certainly doesn't think he is getting the contact calls on his penetration shots. I agree he needs to settle down. He did have 4 offensive rebounds today, but couldn't finish the put back....seems he short-strings some of them---course he isn't the tallest guy inside the paint.

Connor's numbers in asst/turnover ratio & turnovers to minutes played are off the charts --- one of the best in the country over the last several years.

 

[perryhawk]

agree with Ulis shooting'.. just not sure if he is 'a shooter'...well career to date percentages says he isn't...the two 3's today were a bonus, ironically his career ft% is over 80%.

his turnovers to me are not an issue for someone who handles the ball...in roughly 955 career minutes he has a total of 55 turns'...this year his turnover-to-minute ratio is around 20, in averaging 22 minutes per game...he averages a little over 1 TO per game.

he has had two high turnover games - 6 vs. ISU & today 4, other than that he has been a decent ball handler.
He did not turn the ball over today in the last 14 minutes of the game.

Exactly......I think that he becomes a high level PG for the Hawks if he can effectively finish the opportunities that he gets around the basket. That doesn't mean he has to make everyone of them, but hit a high percentage. Then limit those very few high turnover games and play within his shooting abilities (limit the number of outside shots-only take those when he's wide open)....my vision for him is that he is this:

A low turnover, good distributor, good defender, effective when getting to the rim, limited outside shooter....in short a pass first PG that will probably never get the respect he is due for contributing to the teams success.

**hawk-i bob**That's some really good info on Ulis...sometimes stats give us a more realistic view of a player's performance than what an emotional in game evaluation brings.

 

[Rifler]

Many of Aaron's shots aren't even shots, more like a drive to the hoop with a desperation toss,.. Love his ball handling but would be good to see some consistent offense,.. Great to see his 3 pointers yesterday.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

Ulis is very solid and keeps his head, but is not a natural shooter or scorer. Tony has great energy, but has been in too much of a hurry. Connor has been a rock for the team this year, maybe the most important player, although Kris and Rebraca are also both critical for success. I am still not sure what to make of Bowen. He makes some wow plays, but a lot of simple mistakes. Playing time and more strength might fix that. I like what I have seen with Dix. He is especially good on team defense, where he sees what is going on better than most young players...

 

[icwesthawk]

Fran has done a better job the last couple of years in recruiting guards. He 'needs to get better players at the guard position but we have some good ones now.

 

[ZumaHawk]

I honestly think that DB , TP & AU are getting better every game. And will continue to improve. Heck a few years ago Fran was an idiot for taking the Murray twins.

 

[regibson1]

Our guards do a good job of penetrating and creating shots with their passes to our frontcourt players like Rebraca who is playing with much more confidence with a year under his belt and his work in the weight room.

In past years Iowa has struggled getting good shots but they are getting them now because of good offensive play. Iowa has struggled hitting some of the open 3 point shots but with the emergence of Sandfort ,C, McCaffery and the ability of Kris Murray to hit the 3 or take it to the basket, Iowa I believe will continue to get better with their 3 point shooting.

I think that our guards really deserve some credit for the success of our frontcourt. Last year Iowa had to depend on our 3 point shooting and the ability of Keegan Murray to score since we didn't have Rebraca doing much offensively and being the physical presence under the basket. that he is now. With Kris, Filip, and Sandfort and our guards ability to get them the ball our offense is not stagnant and doesn't have to rely on our guards carrying the offense. Ulis does a very good job running the offense and handling the ball and playing good defense. Perkins is very aggressive and plays with great emotion, and C. McCaffery is as solid as a rock and shooting much better this year.

Losing Kris and Conner earlier in the year cost us a couple of wins against Wisconsin with Kris not playing and Eastern Illinois with Kris and Conner both out. Defensively we are playing much better now than we did against Nebraska.

I look for a big win on Thursday against Michigan and Sunday against Maryland. Carver was really rocking and was as loud as I have heard it watching the game on TV. We need that for these two home games.

 

[BirdistheWord]

Ulis certainly has limitations. And given he played 35 minutes against a top ten defense, in a hostile environment, 4 turnovers is not too bad. One, I believe, went thru Kris Murray's hands. It was a bullet, for sure but not off the mark.

Ulis is a solid ball handler, and a very good passer, but not a high level creator. He did a nice job of continually pushing the ball and did break down the defense a number of times. I was surprised he only had 3 assists. He would have had quite a few hockey assists.

Ulis is a good to very good defender and plays strong. He is also an above average rebounder for his size/position.

Ulis does a better job than Saucy at "running" the offense.

His biggest weakness is shooting and finishing around the bucket. He needs to launch a few shots to keep the defense honest, but otherwise, I prefer if he is only shooting 3-4 times per game.

I would like to see more of Bowen, given his upside.

 

[uihawk82]

Ulis is an interesting case. IF he could make the shots at the rim that he gets and then reduce turnovers......he'd really be a solid PG. Are each of those possible? The answer is yes of course. Reducing turnovers appears to be mostly a decision making problem. The way he struggles scoring at the rim is hard to understand,

A long time ago on a bball telecast a well thought of former player/coach talking head analyst mentioned that many shots missed at the rim are from guys glancing down with the eyes at the last second and expecting contact. Like any sport you have the keep your eye on the target, glance down and head goes down and then you miss.

That analyst said the finishers are the guys who keep that focus and power through everything with their eye on the target, whether it be rim or backboard.

 

[jonesy5960]

Ulis certainly has limitations. And given he played 35 minutes against a top ten defense, in a hostile environment, 4 turnovers is not too bad. One, I believe, went thru Kris Murray's hands. It was a bullet, for sure but not off the mark.

Ulis is a solid ball handler, and a very good passer, but not a high level creator. He did a nice job of continually pushing the ball and did break down the defense a number of times. I was surprised he only had 3 assists. He would have had quite a few hockey assists.

Ulis is a good to very good defender and plays strong. He is also an above average rebounder for his size/position.

Ulis does a better job than Saucy at "running" the offense.

His biggest weakness is shooting and finishing around the bucket. He needs to launch a few shots to keep the defense honest, but otherwise, I prefer if he is only shooting 3-4 times per game.

I would like to see more of Bowen, given his upside.

That turnover I believe was credited to Kris. It was definitely hot given the distance.

I don't think any of the guards are particularly effective around the basket although Bowen had a great finish yesterday. Ironically finishing at the rim was something Joe was really good at.

Perkins is an awesome rebounder, but he's too quick to toss up low percentage shots as are the others for that matter, resulting in missed 2nd chance opportunities. I think he had 4 offensive rebounds yesterday resulting in zero points. Even his 2 point shooting percentage is bad as a result. He'd be much better off dribbling or passing out. I hope Fran coaches all of them on this as it's a recurring theme in games this year.

 

[IowasLaw]

Ulis is an interesting case. IF he could make the shots at the rim that he gets and then reduce turnovers......he'd really be a solid PG. Are each of those possible? The answer is yes of course. Reducing turnovers appears to be mostly a decision making problem. The way he struggles scoring at the rim is hard to understand,

Strengths are that he plays decent defense, he's a pretty good passer, and a decent free throw shooter.

Connor really is steady as a rock. I am no expert...but it appears to me that the only time he misses a 3 point shot is when he is leaning slightly. When he leans back, he's short. When he leans left or right, that is the direction he is off. This guy is worth his weight in gold.

Tony has kind of been like Payton...just not as much of a slump. IF he can find his groove we could be in for a good stretch run. I think that getting back in that groove pretty much comes down to hitting his shot with regularity. Right now he appears to be playing frustrated and pressing a bit. That has often resulted in his complaining to the ref while not running back on defense like he should/can. He has been good defensively and did a really good job rebounding today...

Dasonte.....he's a freshman with a bright future. Needs to get stronger and get in the flow...I think he will take a good step forward next year and can still be a factor this year depending on how things go.

Josh D......just like Dasonte, he's playing like a freshman but seems to be more in tune defensively. He needs to get stronger and get some more time behind him related to that injury. Once he gets stronger and plays more confidently he will be a very good piece for this team.

Would love to hear how Nimmers looks in practice.

Seems like we play against teams with bigger, more skilled guard courts that are better than our guys (like Rutgers today) and yet, we come out on top. Great job of coaching by Fran.

lol this mindless OP cracks me up. "IF Ulis could actually make shots and if he could reduce his turnovers, he'd be a good point guard because he plays decent defense?" C'mon. hahaha.

That's like saying if John Licklighter's son were 9 inches taller and could shoot and pass, he would have been a great player. If Iowa's O Line were bigger, stronger, and better, Iowa would have had a better rushing attack and given up less sacks. Duhhhh.

If any below average point guard at any level could shoot better and reduce turnovers, they would be pretty good. That's kinda what the position requires. Other than nepotism and the last name, Ulis simply doesn't have the attributes needed to be a Big 10 point guard.

 

[twindman]

I think Bowen has the ability, but perhaps in HS his quickness was SO much better than the opponents, that he didn't learn some other things he now needs. So with his ability, he CAN learn what he needs and improve a lot. Just my opinion.

 

[jonesy5960]

lol this mindless post cracks me up. IF Ulis could actually make shots and if he could reduce his turnovers, he'd be a good point guard because he plays decent defense? hahaha.

That's like saying if John Licklighter's son were 9 inches taller and could shoot and pass, he would have been a great player.

If any below average point guard at any level could shoot better and reduce turnovers, they would be pretty good. That's kinda what the position requires. Other than nepotism and the last name, Ulis simply doesn't have the attributes needed to be a Big 10 point guard.

This is 100% true!!

 

[Bearhawk0505]

As long as they are playing solid defense, take care of the ball, and take the shots when open, we will be OK. I am just happy we have guards capable of playing good D. It hasn’t been that way since the Gessell/Clemons backcourt, and I thinks it makes the team more dangerous in the postseason.

 

[perryhawk]

lol this mindless OP cracks me up. "IF Ulis could actually make shots and if he could reduce his turnovers, he'd be a good point guard because he plays decent defense?" C'mon. hahaha.

That's like saying if John Licklighter's son were 9 inches taller and could shoot and pass, he would have been a great player. If Iowa's O Line were bigger, stronger, and better, Iowa would have had a better rushing attack and given up less sacks. Duhhhh.

If any below average point guard at any level could shoot better and reduce turnovers, they would be pretty good. That's kinda what the position requires. Other than nepotism and the last name, Ulis simply doesn't have the attributes needed to be a Big 10 point guard.

You obviously have an agenda….you so badly want to prove your opinion correct you resort to trying to diminish another’s post by calling it mindless….I get it, you believe and want Bowen to start and play more than Ulis. Relax, it will most likely happen at some point.

When you make your case you can cite things like Bowens turnover issues. I think it makes your argument more credible then trying to hide/ignore stats that everyone knows…

My post was an overall assessment that I think is objective…. I wasn’t even trying to make the case for Ulis being locked in as a starter, nor eliminating Bowen as a contender. I like both guys….they’re both our guys and I want them both to play up to their capabilities. No reason whatsoever to get defensive.

Fran knows more than any of us about what these guys are capable of and how to play them. Our discussions here are just discussions.

 

[nu2u]

re: backcourt

Perkins is the key to a big stretch run; skill set is unique among Iowa guards and he can do it all - shoot/score, pass, rebound, defend. Just needs to get that mojo going again. I think he will!

 

[amahawk]

I think Bowen has the ability, but perhaps in HS his quickness was SO much better than the opponents, that he didn't learn some other things he now needs. So with his ability, he CAN learn what he needs and improve a lot. Just my opinion.

I think Bowen has a very high ceiling.

 

[ISUBryceC]

IMO Ulis has been around long enough I think we've seen what kind of player he is. That can change but it's rare at this level to have a guy make a jump.

As far as his turnovers go, I think TO% is a better look at how much they turn it over. It's 26% for Bowen and 18% for Ulis, still way too big of a number. Ulis' effective FG% is under 40%, which is bad. Assist rate is lower for Ulis than Bowen. I'm not saying don't play him, especially with the available guys, but IMO the minutes should be switched for them. Bowen should definitely be playing more.

Bart Torvik has a player ranking system which isn't perfect but when you look at it and see just how far Ulis is down the list for Big 10 players as a junior it's not what you want.

 

[perryhawk]

IMO Ulis has been around long enough I think we've seen what kind of player he is. That can change but it's rare at this level to have a guy make a jump.

As far as his turnovers go, I think TO% is a better look at how much they turn it over. It's 26% for Bowen and 18% for Ulis, still way too big of a number. Ulis' effective FG% is under 40%, which is bad. Assist rate is lower for Ulis than Bowen. I'm not saying don't play him, especially with the available guys, but IMO the minutes should be switched for them. Bowen should definitely be playing more.

Bart Torvik has a player ranking system which isn't perfect but when you look at it and see just how far Ulis is down the list for Big 10 players as a junior it's not what you want.

I think those are all reasonable points....but I also think that it is important to note that this is really Ulis first year in the starters role AND his first year with significant playing time against quality opponents. I believe he is still developing and at this point, he is much stronger than Dasante and therefore a better defender and ballhandler.

That said, Dasante is right on his heels and that is a good situation for both...competition.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

I would like to know the number of live ball turnovers at the top of the key by our guards this year that have led to easy layups for the opponent. It has to be in double figures.

This group of guards is very unsteady with the ball in traffic and under pressure.

 

[ObeseMuffins]

Ulis seemed to be pretty limping pretty bad in the first half. I wonder if Perkins is still dealing with his lingering leg injury? I suspect it's his hamstring which could go on for awhile..

 

[ChiPackHawk]

Ulis is an interesting case. IF he could make the shots at the rim that he gets and then reduce turnovers......he'd really be a solid PG. Are each of those possible? The answer is yes of course. Reducing turnovers appears to be mostly a decision making problem. The way he struggles scoring at the rim is hard to understand,

Strengths are that he plays decent defense, he's a pretty good passer, and a decent free throw shooter.

Connor really is steady as a rock. I am no expert...but it appears to me that the only time he misses a 3 point shot is when he is leaning slightly. When he leans back, he's short. When he leans left or right, that is the direction he is off. This guy is worth his weight in gold.

Tony has kind of been like Payton...just not as much of a slump. IF he can find his groove we could be in for a good stretch run. I think that getting back in that groove pretty much comes down to hitting his shot with regularity. Right now he appears to be playing frustrated and pressing a bit. That has often resulted in his complaining to the ref while not running back on defense like he should/can. He has been good defensively and did a really good job rebounding today...

Dasonte.....he's a freshman with a bright future. Needs to get stronger and get in the flow...I think he will take a good step forward next year and can still be a factor this year depending on how things go.

Josh D......just like Dasonte, he's playing like a freshman but seems to be more in tune defensively. He needs to get stronger and get some more time behind him related to that injury. Once he gets stronger and plays more confidently he will be a very good piece for this team.

Would love to hear how Nimmers looks in practice.

Seems like we play against teams with bigger, more skilled guard courts that are better than our guys (like Rutgers today) and yet, we come out on top. Great job of coaching by Fran.

I wonder how much of the issue could be with top point guards is they can generally get to the basket with ease in HS. In the Big Ten, they may get past the initial defender, but once help defense gets there they don't have the current skill set to make a decision other than put the shot up. I think decision making is what sets apart the truly great point guards. Making the split second decision to try and score or set someone else up with a better opportunity. All with minimal turnovers.

 

[ChiPackHawk]

I would like to know the number of live ball turnovers at the top of the key by our guards this year that have led to easy layups for the opponent. It has to be in double figures.

This group of guards is very unsteady with the ball in traffic and under pressure.

That is exactly why Connor is so important to this team.

 

[hawksense]

You obviously have an agenda….you so badly want to prove your opinion correct you resort to trying to diminish another’s post by calling it mindless….I get it, you believe and want Bowen to start and play more than Ulis. Relax, it will most likely happen at some point.

When you make your case you can cite things like Bowens turnover issues. I think it makes your argument more credible then trying to hide/ignore stats that everyone knows…

My post was an overall assessment that I think is objective…. I wasn’t even trying to make the case for Ulis being locked in as a starter, nor eliminating Bowen as a contender. I like both guys….they’re both our guys and I want them both to play up to their capabilities. No reason whatsoever to get defensive.

Fran knows more than any of us about what these guys are capable of and how to play them. Our discussions here are just discussions.

You are discussing!

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

IMO Ulis has been around long enough I think we've seen what kind of player he is. That can change but it's rare at this level to have a guy make a jump.

How well have all those 2018 and 2019 posts about Connor McC aged. Les Jepsen looked almost retarded after his third year in the program, he played in the NBA. Lots of kids around the country blow up senior year.

He's an athletic point guard that struggles with his shot. That's what we know about him. Iowa frequently has two distributers on the floor so splitting assists with Connor McC will tend to diminish his total number of assists.

Having said all of that Desonte shows a much higher ceiling. He just needs to play smarter, that should come with maturity and age.

 

[perryhawk]

How well have all those 2018 and 2019 posts about Connor McC aged. Les Jepsen looked almost retarded after his third year in the program, he played in the NBA. Lots of kids around the country blow up senior year.

He's an athletic point guard that struggles with his shot. That's what we know about him. Iowa frequently has two distributers on the floor so splitting assists with Connor McC will tend to diminish his total number of assists.

Having said all of that Desonte shows a much higher ceiling. He just needs to play smarter, that should come with maturity and age.

Very well said.

 

[Knothole Hawk]

After losing what we had last year, and our number of possessions per game. Having the 4th fewest turnovers per game in the league. I'm fine with our backcourts play at this point of the season. With more games they are just going to get better.

 

[Rifler]

Bowen will be more than fine,.. Right now I see him as being about a year ahead of where Ulis was at the same time in his Hawkeye career..

 

[ISUBryceC]

Lots of kids around the country blow up senior year.

Give me some examples. It's much more rare for guys to blow up their senior year than guys to just be who they are.

We have two in your post. Connor, a 6th year player which is going happen extremely rarely and Jepsen who finished his career at Iowa 32 years ago.

 

[perryhawk]

Give me some examples. It's much more rare for guys to blow up their senior year than guys to just be who they are.

We have two in your post. Connor, a 6th year player which is going happen extremely rarely and Jepsen who finished his career at Iowa 32 years ago.

The Tom Davis area is full of them....maybe junior and senior year, but it was a regular occurrence and fun part of following the program at that time. I remember Jim Bartels...when he arrived he didn't appear to be a D1 player. By the time he was a senior, he was outstanding. Brad Lohaus was a great example...and there were a number of others who statistically had their best years as seniors. I don't remember that so much with Alford, and certainly not with Lick......but Fran's had really good success developing players.

 

[ISUBryceC]

The Tom Davis area is full of them....maybe junior and senior year, but it was a regular occurrence and fun part of following the program at that time. I remember Jim Bartels...when he arrived he didn't appear to be a D1 player. By the time he was a senior, he was outstanding. Brad Lohaus was a great example...and there were a number of others who statistically had their best years as seniors. I don't remember that so much with Alford, and certainly not with Lick......but Fran's had really good success developing players.

Basically nobody in the last 25 years other than Connor. Again, it's very rare for a senior year jump in today's game. Even a junior year jump is pretty rare.

 

[RocknRollface]

Basically nobody in the last 25 years other than Connor. Again, it's very rare for a senior year jump in today's game. Even a junior year jump is pretty rare.

Its a lot less common now just because the game is different and coaches don't load up on bigs the way they used to.

If anyone is going to have a massive leap in a 5th year its an unathletic big guy whos coordination has finally caught up with his size at year 5.

40 years ago coaches would hand out scholarships based on just size alone sometimes. Those guys mostly go to mid majors now.

Everyone else usually just progresses a little every year.

Some guys like Garza, Marble, Utohff ect, get a good deal better every year.

Others like Gessel and Woodbury seem to peak earlier.

Ulis has progessed a little every year and if he stays for his 5th year he will certainly be better than he is now but its hard to say how much.

 

[perryhawk]

Basically nobody in the last 25 years other than Connor. Again, it's very rare for a senior year jump in today's game. Even a junior year jump is pretty rare.

Not true…..Gatens was great his senior year….much improved over previous years.

J Cole the same.

Anthony Clemons
Peter Jok
Ryan Kriener
Nicholas B
Gabe O..

I’m sure there’s others..

 

[blhawk]

How well have all those 2018 and 2019 posts about Connor McC aged. Les Jepsen looked almost retarded after his third year in the program, he played in the NBA. Lots of kids around the country blow up senior year.

He's an athletic point guard that struggles with his shot. That's what we know about him. Iowa frequently has two distributers on the floor so splitting assists with Connor McC will tend to diminish his total number of assists.

Having said all of that Desonte shows a much higher ceiling. He just needs to play smarter, that should come with maturity and age.

Aged well? What the hell do observations about a player's skill set and role on a team 4-5 years ago have to do with this team? I'm amazed how much Connor has improved this year, especially his shooting and free throw shooting in particuar. He also seems go be going after boards harder. He definitely deserves credit there but it doesn't mean observations about how he played or how he was used in his first 5 seasons were invalid

 

[ISUBryceC]

Not true…..Gatens was great his senior year….much improved over previous years.

J Cole the same.

Anthony Clemons
Peter Jok
Ryan Kriener
Nicholas B
Gabe O..

I’m sure there’s others..

I think we're just defining blowing up very differently.

Every one of those guys was pretty good then got slightly better their senior year. It's not comparable to Ulis at all.

Gatens averaged over 10 PPG every single season he was at Iowa. He went from 12.6 PPG as a junior to 15.2 PPG as senior.
Clemons was quite frankly never that good but might be the closest comparison.
Jok averaged 16.1 PPG as a junior on 40% shooting.
Kriener went from 5.7 PPG to 7.7 PPG.
Baer's most productive season was his sophomore year.
Olaseni went from 6.5 PPG to 8.1 PPG from junior to senior year.

Increasing your PPG by 2 isn't blowing up to me at all. Most of these guys also played about the same amount of minutes for a good chunk of their careers. If you would consider Ulis going from 5.3 PPG to 7.5 PPG blowing up, well maybe that will happen.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

I think Connor's improvement is mostly the combination of being healthier and only playing basketball this year. He always played tough, could pass, and was a leader on the court. This year (and the end of last year), his shooting has shown a dramatic improvement.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

Aged well? What the hell do observations about a player's skill set and role on a team 4-5 years ago have to do with this team? I'm amazed how much Connor has improved this year, especially his shooting and free throw shooting in particuar. He also seems go be going after boards harder. He definitely deserves credit there but it doesn't mean observations about how he played or how he was used in his first 5 seasons were invalid

It shows players that are trashed early do improve and become essential parts of the team.

 

[HawkRugged17]

 

[hawksense]

Good points by both Perry and Bryce. Two different points of view. Both valid.