Can we admit that shooting a fleeing black man in the back(7 times) might be a null and void?
Outbreak of anti-police violence in Kenosha, Wisc.
- Thread starter Hawkeyerick
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yes Dr Elders numbers and the update of 15 unarmed blacks and 25 unarmed whites killed by police, underline the fact that there is no racial component to this.
[QUOTE="Fluffles, post: 8027732, member: 97649"]It’s extremely common amongst all ages, races, and genders for people to not follow verbal commands of the police for a myriad of reasons including medical, mental, and during any extremely tense situation. Guess who gets shot for it. If a 18 year old white girl in a wealthy suburb ignored verbal commands, walked away from the cops, tried to get in her Lexus (it happens) and got blasted seven times, nobody would attempt to justify it. That’s my litmus test and is telling about institutional racism and the perception that all black males in poor neighborhoods are scary and potential threats.[/QUOTE]
No! It’s not extremely common amongst all ages, genders, and races to show complete disregard towards police requests and commands, especially when the police is pointing a gun at you. It does seem to be much more common for one race than others, however. Keep in mind, this doesn’t just happen to blacks. It also happens to whites who choose to demonstrate the same behaviors. As of June of this year, 172 whites had been killed by police this year as opposed to 88 blacks. 19 unarmed whites were killed by cops last year compared with 9 blacks. What actions did those people have in common?
No! It’s not extremely common amongst all ages, genders, and races to show complete disregard towards police requests and commands, especially when the police is pointing a gun at you. It does seem to be much more common for one race than others, however. Keep in mind, this doesn’t just happen to blacks. It also happens to whites who choose to demonstrate the same behaviors. As of June of this year, 172 whites had been killed by police this year as opposed to 88 blacks. 19 unarmed whites were killed by cops last year compared with 9 blacks. What actions did those people have in common?
The numbers are wrong and even if they were right they indicate a racial component. But again, the issue is excessive police force and your efforts only highlight the problem further. Good job.
At work I guess. Never been so busy. Built molds for ventilators for a while due to the push, then about two months of slow time, and now totally swamped. We need more people to keep up. Wife keeps me updated on stuff other than on here.
I read it. Depending when counts were made and what qualifies as being countable the differences didn’t strike me to prove a disproportionate racial component. I’ll listen to the arguments if you feel it does.
"Despite these issues, the Post's database shows police fatally shot 13 unarmed black men in 2019, not eight."
groundbreaking Riley
This data does not include “deaths of people in police custody, fatal shootings by off-duty officers or non-shooting deaths.”
At best, it's wholly incomplete data.
"shot"
This data does not include “deaths of people in police custody, fatal shootings by off-duty officers or non-shooting deaths.”
Be smarter.
Strange case. Shot the boy at point blank range while on his bike. Perpetrator was the next door neighbor who had days before had dinner and beers with the family. No history of disagreements between the two households. Murdered right in front of his two older sisters. Just horrible.
I dunno about anyone else but I can’t really tell anything else from this video. Maybe i need to watch it a few more times.
Only sharing since you asked - Armed resource officer and 20 yr military vet. Enough to know that most of the people here painting the cops as villains have probably never touched a firearm in their life.
Why does this even matter? Plenty of people have earned the right to get shot by the police. The only statistic relevant to this topic would be the number of unjustified shootings/killings.
If you want to play around with numbers, blacks make up 13% of the population. Whites make up about 75%. According to those figures of the whites and blacks shot by police, 32% were black and 68% were white. What does that mean? I don't know. Unless there is context to those numbers, they don't mean much.
Then you have to look at the FBI crime statistics on violent crime. That will give your 32% and 68% perfect context.
People involved with police shootings are usually engaged in violent crime. All of this shows no evidence of "racist" motivation on the part of the police.
While people argue about the numbers of "whites and blacks" that get shot and killed per year by officers.... I feel like there may be a common thread here that's an issue we can all unite on.... if I could only put my finger on it.......
That's my whole point. The statistical data is relatively meaningless. Unless someone can prove police are being trained to target or unfairly scrutinize non-whites, every incident should be examined on its own merits and not viewed as a microcosm of systemic racism in policing.
In other words, where are there "norms gaps" between standard policing procedures and their execution? Any time you're dealing with a volatile public, those gaps are going to occur. It's when those norms gaps are intentional and/or consistent that there's an actual problem. With Derek Chauvin, that certainly seemed to be the case with the number of complaints filed against him. With this officer, who knows.
The other piece not considered that should be is the mental health of police officers. I'm guessing there are quite a few cops who struggle with PTSD, depression, anxiety, etc. that probably go largely untreated because I'm guessing most cops don't seek help for mental health. Given the undue stress of policing, especially in bigger cities, cops probably need a lot more support than what they're getting.
What is a armed resource officer?
Look I get that it’s a stressful job. I wouldn’t want it. That being said, we need better from them. The good police officers need to weed out the bad ones and speak out against officers who are quick to pull the trigger or are unnecessary violent or just straight up corrupt. I believe most are good and there is just a handful that really shouldn’t be in law enforcement positions. Let’s get rid of those cops so they don’t paint the good ones in a bad light.
We can’t have nor defend shooting a man 7 times in the back. It’s wrong and no one should defend it.
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If he survives, with seven shots in the back, you'd have to think he's likely paralyzed for life.
This is just horrible. And unnecessary.
Nope, we're just waiting for @PhoenixHawk5.0 to give us a link for what he claimed on Page 8. He's been on HROT already this morning and continues to ignore all the times he's been asked for provide one.
The information I got was from someone I know who is a law enforcement officer in Wisconsin. I’ve also seen it start to pop up on social media. I don’t know exactly what happened but I know that you can’t judge it based solely on one 20 second clip. There also isn’t going to be any pro police articles in the news because that’s not what gets views. Google Jacob Blake with a knife and there are plenty of still shot which show him holding what seems to be a knife. Also witnesses said the police were telling him to drop the knife which could be why they weren’t going hands into after the initial struggle on the passenger side of the vehicle which can be seen from other camera angles. He also had outstanding warrants for criminal trespassing, domestic violence, and 3rd degree sex assault. If he just stops and doesn’t resist non of this happens. Now if it turns out there was no knife it’s very different. But because law enforcement hasn’t released any information yet it’s hard to know. The problem with these things there is so much that people don’t know and fly off the handle at what the media reports. With the george Floyd case it’s much different....although it may have been what killed him the 8 minute video of that is disturbing and inexcusable.
Ahhhh okay, so there's no link. It's all hearsay from a "law enforcement officer" and you back that up with "it start to pop up on social media." So basically you were stating nothing but hearsay.
I knew there was a reason you were ignoring this thread after your last post, and this explains it pretty well.
What do you find objectionable about what he wrote?
To be honest, I don't trust a lot of the linked "sources" people use to establish credibility anymore. The truth is we will likely never know the whole truth regardless of what some "source" claims to know.
Here's my biggest issue (which isn't directed at you): we've created a large subculture that do not believe they need to respect police authority. That is a problem. If a police officer tells you to put your hands in the air or stop walking, you frickin do it. I am making no judgement on whether the police officer firing seven shots in his back was justified or not. As far as I'm aware, there's no new information. I'm saying in general people need to understand compliance with the police is not optional or negotiable. A lot of problems could be solved if this attitude was a little more ubiquitous.
I mentioned in another post that I don't necessarily not believe him, I just wanted proof. I can say that I know a police officer in Wisconsin too, then say some stuff I saw on Twitter that supports my side. That's the problem with the internet, it's insanely easy to just say things and then not back them up. If one person on Twitter with 15K followers says something, it immediately spreads within minutes....even if it's not true. Because people don't fact check things that they agree with, they just run with it.
In his initial post he mentioned that the cops were actually called to a gas station, and then he left that part out of his next post (that repeated everything else from his first post).
Like I said, I've called folks out on here in the past for posting stuff as fact, when there is no proof it's a fact. If you're going to post stuff like that I don't think it's horrible to ask for a link. Or, he could have just acknowledged that it was hearsay in his initial post.
Yes. But we don’t have direct control over how an individual citizen acts in any particular situation. We do have control over how the police conduct OUR business (not their business). When we don’t like how an event has unfolded, we are best served by looking at what buttons, switches, levers are at our disposal to manipulate the dynamic and change the outcome of the next similar situation.
That is why it is so frustrating watching people who are preoccupied with their support of the police try to shut down any criticism, and say the answer is on the citizen conduct side of the equation. We don’t get to simply change that. That is not a viable strategy, it is wishful thinking, ignoring reality. Police do what we tell them to do. It’s their job. Their job would be easier if we could find a way to build trust—that is hard but conceivably achievable.
My number one thing for police to do when conducting our business (not theirs), is to go home alive every night.
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