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Outbreak of anti-police violence in Kenosha, Wisc.

Yes. But we don’t have direct control over how an individual citizen acts in any particular situation. We do have control over how the police conduct OUR business (not their business). When we don’t like how an event has unfolded, we are best served by looking at what buttons, switches, levers are at our disposal to manipulate the dynamic and change the outcome of the next similar situation.

That is why it is so frustrating watching people who are preoccupied with their support of the police try to shut down any criticism, and say the answer is on the citizen conduct side of the equation. We don’t get to simply change that. That is not a viable strategy, it is wishful thinking, ignoring reality. Police do what we tell them to do. It’s their job. Their job would be easier if we could find a way to build trust—that is hard but conceivably achievable.

Expecting the public to comply with the police does not mean a police officer should not be held to high standards. This is not an either or proposition. Jeeesh.
 
Jerime Mitchell - Resisted Arrest, likely altered being a drug trafficker, have never saw toxicology report released.
George Floyd - Resisted Arrest, Altered, on probation
Ahmaud Arbery - Resisted Arrest (albeit unlawful), on probation
Rayshard Brooks - Resisted Arrest, Altered, on probation
Jacob Blake - Resisted Arrest

Why does it seem every time a black man is shot they were resisting arrest in some form or fashion? Does the fear of jail or prison cause them to behave this way? Does cultural disrespect shown towards law enforcement factor in ie rap music?

Is it okay to examine facts? I agree with holding police officers(and dipshit racist rednecks in the case of Arbery) accountable for their actions. Can we do the same with the individuals they were attempting to arrest? Or are they above reproach?

We are told by these lawyers it is "racist" to examine their criminal history, state of mind, and attitudes towards law enforcement. But is it really?

Isn't this what the federal government does in evaluating a potential hate crime? Is it also "racist" to evaluate the attitudes and motivations of the dipshit racists who killed Ahmaud Arbery? I don't believe so, they appear to be through and through racists with racial hatred as motivations, they should be charged with hate crimes.

Shouldn't these men be evaluated for their attitudes towards whites and law enforcement? No? What justifies the double standard? That police are to be held to a higher standard yes? "Higher standard" doesn't mean we have no standard for how citizens interact with the police, does it?

Anyone?
 
Jerime Mitchell - Resisted Arrest, likely altered being a drug trafficker, have never saw toxicology report released.
George Floyd - Resisted Arrest, Altered, on probation
Ahmaud Arbery - Resisted Arrest (albeit unlawful), on probation
Rayshard Brooks - Resisted Arrest, Altered, on probation
Jacob Blake - Resisted Arrest

Why does it seem every time a black man is shot they were resisting arrest in some form or fashion? Does the fear of jail or prison cause them to behave this way? Does cultural disrespect shown towards law enforcement factor in ie rap music?

Is it okay to examine facts? I agree with holding police officers(and dipshit racist rednecks in the case of Arbery) accountable for their actions. Can we do the same with the individuals they were attempting to arrest? Or are they above reproach?

We are told by these lawyers it is "racist" to examine their criminal history, state of mind, and attitudes towards law enforcement. But is it really?

Isn't this what the federal government does in evaluating a potential hate crime? Is it also "racist" to evaluate the attitudes and motivations of the dipshit racists who killed Ahmaud Arbery? I don't believe so, they appear to be through and through racists with racial hatred as motivations, they should be charged with hate crimes.

Shouldn't these men be evaluated for their attitudes towards whites and law enforcement? No? What justifies the double standard? That police are to be held to a higher standard yes? "Higher standard" doesn't mean we have no standard for how citizens interact with the police, does it?

Anyone?

Ahmaud Arbery? The guy who was jogging?
 
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Yes, the guy who was jogging. I'm not saying he was wrong in resisting arrest by two racist rednecks who were attempting an unlawful arrest. However it does not change the fact that they thought they were within the bounds of the law and were attempting to arrest him.

If Ahmaud stops and waits for the real police we never know who he is other than a story about a man who was wrongfully accused of crimes he didn't commit and after a few years wins a wrongful treatment civil suit against racists.

It also doesn't change the fact that he was on probation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrest

Arrest

An arrest is the act of apprehending and taking a person into custody (legal protection or control), usually because the person has been suspected of or observed committing a crime. After being taken into custody, the person can be questioned further and/or charged. An arrest is a procedure in a criminal justice system.

I had no idea you suffered from Down Syndrome. Hoooooly shit.
 
Interesting, was the story something like this?

Ahmaud Arbery was jogging one afternoon, two rednecks in a truck tell him to stop and want to "ask him questions." He stops, the police are called, the police show up, they evaluate the situation and release Ahmaud Arbery after evaluating the available evidence, later Ahmaud Arbery and his family file a wrongful arrest / false imprisonment civil lawsuit against the McMichaels, later a jury awards Ahmaud Arbery $1 million and the McMichaels are charged and convicted for false imprisonment.

Or did he resist being arrested/stopped/questioned? (stop getting hung up on semantics)

Is Citizen's Arrest a thing in Georgia? Yes. Did the McMichael's claim to be making a "citizen's arrest"? Yes. Were they correct in that claim? No. All the same, they thought they were arresting someone. They were certainly trying to stop him/hold him until police came.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen's_arrest#:~:text=A citizen's arrest is an,to help apprehend law breakers.

A citizen's arrest is an arrest made by a private citizen, that is, a person who is not acting as a sworn law-enforcement official.[1] In common law jurisdictions, the practice dates back to medieval England and the English common law, in which sheriffs encouraged ordinary citizens to help apprehend law breakers.[2]

https://www.gpb.org/news/2020/05/15...-arrest-law-and-why-are-there-calls-repeal-it
Dude, I don't know a single person that if they were out jogging would cooperate when 2 dudes with guns pulled up to them and "wanted to ask them questions." If it happened to me, as a white man, the first thing that would come to mind would be "I'm about to get kidnapped"

Your original post had plenty of valid points but including this as an example of black men resisting arrest is just dumb.
 
Jerime Mitchell - Resisted Arrest, likely altered being a drug trafficker, have never saw toxicology report released.
George Floyd - Resisted Arrest, Altered, on probation
Ahmaud Arbery - Resisted Arrest (albeit unlawful), on probation
Rayshard Brooks - Resisted Arrest, Altered, on probation
Jacob Blake - Resisted Arrest

Why does it seem every time a black man is shot they were resisting arrest in some form or fashion? Does the fear of jail or prison cause them to behave this way? Does cultural disrespect shown towards law enforcement factor in ie rap music?

Is it okay to examine facts? I agree with holding police officers(and dipshit racist rednecks in the case of Arbery) accountable for their actions. Can we do the same with the individuals they were attempting to arrest? Or are they above reproach?

We are told by these lawyers it is "racist" to examine their criminal history, state of mind, and attitudes towards law enforcement. But is it really?

Isn't this what the federal government does in evaluating a potential hate crime? Is it also "racist" to evaluate the attitudes and motivations of the dipshit racists who killed Ahmaud Arbery? I don't believe so, they appear to be through and through racists with racial hatred as motivations, they should be charged with hate crimes.

Shouldn't these men be evaluated for their attitudes towards whites and law enforcement? No? What justifies the double standard? That police are to be held to a higher standard yes? "Higher standard" doesn't mean we have no standard for how citizens interact with the police, does it?

Anyone?

You left out Jacob Blake - Active warrant for sexual assault
 
Dude, I don't know a single person that if they were out jogging would cooperate when 2 dudes with guns pulled up to them and "wanted to ask them questions." If it happened to me, as a white man, the first thing that would come to mind would be "I'm about to get kidnapped"

Your original post had plenty of valid points but including this as an example of black men resisting arrest is just dumb.

At one point, I had taken him seriously. Arbery had no reason to cooperate with two idiot rednecks trying to make a "citizen's arrest."

He's either a complete imbecile or too pussy to admit he likes it when n***ers get killed. In any case, he's a waste of time to engage.
 
Dude, I don't know a single person that if they were out jogging would cooperate when 2 dudes with guns pulled up to them and "wanted to ask them questions." If it happened to me, as a white man, the first thing that would come to mind would be "I'm about to get kidnapped"

Your original post had plenty of valid points but including this as an example of black men resisting arrest is just dumb.

You don't know they had guns drawn when they were attempting to stop him. We have a 911 tape that has one of the McMichaels talking on the phone to 911 and driving with the other hand. How do you propose he was also holding a gun? I would like to see that.

You must not know very many people. Most people i know would have stopped and asked them what the hell they were talking about. Why would you assume you were getting kidnapped? Does that happen a lot?
 
You don't know they had guns drawn when they were attempting to stop him. We have a 911 tape that has one of the McMichaels talking on the phone to 911 and driving with the other hand. How do you propose he was also holding a gun? I would like to see that.

You must not know very many people. Most people i know would have stopped and asked them what the hell they were talking about.
At no point in anyone's life are they told to engage with folks they don't know that pull up on them. If the guy did know them, they obviously had no issues gunning down a guy in broad daylight in the middle of the road. That's not the type of folks you stop and engage with.

Kids are told to run away. Girls/women are carry mace and are told certain things about how to handle situations when they're walking alone at night.

Nobody is told "Hey if some people come up and try to talk to you, you should stop what you're doing any speak with them."

I'm certain you're just trolling at this point.
 
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At one point, I had taken him seriously. Arbery had no reason to cooperate with two idiot rednecks trying to make a "citizen's arrest."

He's either a complete imbecile or too pussy to admit he likes it when n***ers get killed. In any case, he's a waste of time to engage.

You could not be more wrong. What is happening in this country is horrifying and sad. I'm simply asking whether the actions of the victims are in any way contributing to their fates?

I believe and agree police behavior and training desperately needs reform. Bias training should be standard procedure, racists should be removed from law enforcement.

Do citizens bear any responsibility of their interactions with law enforcement at all?

Do you think zero? None? Anyone can act any way they want at all times in your view? Is that what you are implying by dismissing my queries?
 
Do citizens bear any responsibility of their interactions with law enforcement at all?

Do you think zero? None? Anyone can act any way they want at all times in your view? Is that what you are implying by dismissing my queries?
Are you referring to the McMichaels as law enforcement then?
 
At no point in anyone's life are they told to engage with folks they don't know that pull up on them. If the guy did know them, they obviously had no issues gunning down a guy in broad daylight in the middle of the road. That's not the type of folks you stop and engage with.

Yeah I don't know about that. Plain clothes officers exist. If someone were shouting at me while i was jogging i would want to know what the hell they were going on about. I would not assume they were going to harm me or kidnap me. You seem to be exaggerating in an attempt to make a point. I don't agree but i see what you are saying. You may be right. Personally I would have wanted them to stop following me and stop yelling at me so i would have stopped and talked to them.
 
Former yes. At the time of the killing, no they were not law enforcement. However, the elder McMichael did claim he believed he was performing a citizen's arrest on behalf of law enforcement. Why do you seem intent to get caught up on semantics?

Let's just agree Ahmaud Arbery avoided or was avoiding being detained from an unlawful arrest. Is that agreeable?
I'll agree that Arbery did what most humans would do in that situation.
 
Former yes. At the time of the killing, no they were not law enforcement. However, the elder McMichael did claim he believed he was performing a citizen's arrest on behalf of law enforcement. Why do you seem intent to get caught up on semantics?

Let's just agree Ahmaud Arbery avoided or was avoiding being detained from an unlawful arrest. Is that agreeable?

In most jurisdictions an unlawful citizen’s arrest is considered false imprisonment. It’s a strict liability offense and doesn’t need to be carried out in bad faith or require a guilty mind. In the eyes of the law, Arbery was avoiding a criminal action perpetuated on him. It doesn’t matter what the intent of McMichael’s was when he attempted to imprison Arbery.
 
I'll agree that Arbery did what most humans would do in that situation.

And he was on probation yes?

In your opinion, did his "doing what most humans would do in that situation" possibly escalate the situation? At all? None? I believe it may have and you don't have to agree. Can we not agree to disagree?
 
In most jurisdictions an unlawful citizen’s arrest is considered false imprisonment. It’s a strict liability offense and doesn’t need to be carried out in bad faith or require a guilty mind. In the eyes of the law, Arbery was avoiding a criminal action perpetuated on him.

I agree, as evidenced by a prior post. Did this in any way contribute to his fate you think?

It seems to me it may have escalated things, speculation of course.
 
So you post a video saying you shot a guy on his own property???
Real smart!!
Shame they're still alive. Rot in hell rioters

Flame away destruction promoters :)
Sounds like tonight could get UGLY. Reports of 600+ "protestors" being shipped in and national guard on site. One of these nights we are going to wake up to learn about an actual combat engagement that happened in one of these cities.
 
thats really not appropriate. This cat is a StormFront regular and this is where it’s coming from. Same for triple K that posts on here

Interesting take. Are you also saying that this exact line of inquiry into the mental state, prejudices, and beliefs of criminals, which is at the heart of federal hate crime legislation, is illegitimate? Why?

The only place i have ever heard of stormfront is on this board. I suppose it is another pathetic lame brained attempt at painting me as a racist. Try again slick. Why are people so afraid of defending their own ideas? I don't know. I suppose the infantile reflex is ad hominem attack but it is not nearly as enjoyable as debate. Try it, try to convince me that your position is correct without name calling. Give it a try.
 
Interesting take. Are you also saying that this exact line of inquiry into the mental state, prejudices, and beliefs of criminals, which is at the heart of federal hate crime legislation, is illegitimate? Why?

The only place i have ever heard of stormfront is on this board. I suppose it is another pathetic lame brained attempt at painting me as a racist. Try again slick. Why are people so afraid of defending their own ideas? I don't know. I suppose the infantile reflex is ad hominem attack but it is not nearly as enjoyable as debate. Try it, try to convince me that your position is correct without name calling. Give it a try.

Homey, no one believes this story. Your false assumptions about Abrey where take. Straight from StormFront. Lastly, stating your positions are pulled direct from StormFront is not an ad hominem attack. It is identifying the racist nucleus of your interpretation of situations. Such as in this thread trying to justify the accused actions in stopping him while jogging with saying he should have complied whilst leaving out the very critical detail that they were armed when they got out of the car.
 
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With headphones on, it certainly sounds like the cops are telling him to drop the knife. The still frame photos look like he has one of those ka-bar knives that cops use.
71YS1hCJO4L._AC_SL1500_.jpg

Some reports, (taken off of Twitter) say Blake took the knife off one of the cop’s belts in the struggle on the ground prior to Blake walking around the vehicle.
 
Yes, the guy who was jogging. I'm not saying he was wrong in resisting arrest by two racist rednecks who were attempting an unlawful arrest. However it does not change the fact that they thought they were within the bounds of the law and were attempting to arrest him.

If Ahmaud stops and waits for the real police we never know who he is other than a story about a man who was wrongfully accused of crimes he didn't commit and after a few years wins a wrongful treatment civil suit against racists.

It also doesn't change the fact that he was on probation.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arrest

Arrest

An arrest is the act of apprehending and taking a person into custody (legal protection or control), usually because the person has been suspected of or observed committing a crime. After being taken into custody, the person can be questioned further and/or charged. An arrest is a procedure in a criminal justice system.

That might be one of the dumbest ****ing takes I've ever seen on this board.
 
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