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Over 90% of us believe in God and half don't believe in . . .

Originally posted by DianaMoonGlampers:

Originally posted by HoundedHawk:

Originally posted by ricflair4LIFE:
Does that mean nothing has evolved?
Almost everything has evolved. It's in the design by God.
This may be a stupid question, but I have never had it explained to me by someone who believes it. Why would god design evolution? Why would he not just create something perfect, just the way he wanted it?
A part of the perfection, is the natural selection found in our code working with the environment.
 
Originally posted by HoundedHawk:
Originally posted by EddieHaskell:
These sort of mass stupidity polls are meaningless when it comes to determining what side of an issue is "correct". They do, however, say a great deal about how dumb the average American is.
Or it tells how brainwashed one side is. I believe that is plain.

it take a lot for a religious person to admit this. good work.
 
Originally posted by uiowa08:
I think the bottom line is that you can't really trust religious people for any matter concering science. We would still be living in the stone age worshipping the sun if religion had its way.
There are two potential problems with this.

1. Some of the very best scientists are religious.
2. Many of the scientists who don't claim to be religious are indeed very religious, but just don't know it.
 
Originally posted by HoundedHawk:
Originally posted by uiowa08:
I think the bottom line is that you can't really trust religious people for any matter concering science. We would still be living in the stone age worshipping the sun if religion had its way.
There are two potential problems with this.

1. Some of the very best scientists are religious.
2. Many of the scientists who don't claim to be religious are indeed very religious, but just don't know it.

indeed very religious, but just don't know it????
 
Originally posted by PhilHartman:
Most of the brainwashing takes place in science classes when they revert to pseudo science. Kids are exposed far more to evolution before school, than the other. It's everywhere, even on their cereal boxes.


Maybe the reason the Christian/Satanism brainwashing is more effective is because it has serious penalties for the unbelievers. Science doesn't comdemn you to never ending torment and pain if you don't truely believe it, but Christianity and Satanism do.
Or the reason many do believe in evolution is that it entices them with the concept they are basically there own god, free to choose whatever morals let them satiate whatever desires they form.

Originally posted by PhilHartman:


The first and only brainwashing I have personally recieved was at the hands of Christians when I was a young and naive child. They actually tried to make me believe that a book written by men thousands of years ago was the word of God. I've come to realize that these were very evil people, they tried to hide the true nature of God from me and substitute the word of mortal men.




Or you've forgotten the biggest brainwashing you ever had, that is, what you currently believe now.

This post was edited on 3/31 4:19 PM by PhilHartman
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Originally posted by HoundedHawk:

Originally posted by uiowa08:
I think the bottom line is that you can't really trust religious people for any matter concering science. We would still be living in the stone age worshipping the sun if religion had its way.
There are two potential problems with this.

1. Some of the very best scientists are religious.
2. Many of the scientists who don't claim to be religious are indeed very religious, but just don't know it.

Believing in a god does not equal being religious.

Science cannot flourish in the collectivism that is religion.
 
Originally posted by HoundedHawk:

Originally posted by jrotten666:
Even your example of a hard drive mutuating into a computer operating system shows a lack of understanding of evolution. That or you are being dishonest.
Or, three, that's my honest assessment of it, after reading countless things about it.

So evolution only deals with genetic mutation?
 
How does religion explain man's "belief" in evolution?

Evolution can explain man's belief in religion, so I was just wondering if the reverse is true.

Trying to guess I come up with these possibilities
It's a false concept propagated by Satan to lead man away from God's truth; or
It's God testing man's faith.

Is there anything else?

Is there a place in religion for evolution, without it being a lie or a test?
 
Originally posted by HoundedHawk:

Originally posted by DianaMoonGlampers:


Originally posted by HoundedHawk:


Originally posted by ricflair4LIFE:
Does that mean nothing has evolved?
Almost everything has evolved. It's in the design by God.
This may be a stupid question, but I have never had it explained to me by someone who believes it. Why would god design evolution? Why would he not just create something perfect, just the way he wanted it?
A part of the perfection, is the natural selection found in our code working with the environment.

If god is perfect and all powerful as you say, why doesn't he simply just destroy evil? If he is all powerful, that should certainly be well within his power. Either he chooses not to destroy evil and he is wicked or incompetent, or he is not all powerful and thus can't destroy evil.

The problem of evil.
 
Originally posted by whatdidido:
That dog don't hunt.

The Creationist/ID school of thought never produced any meaningful contribution to science and medicine and human achievement. It's just a conversation piece for people wandering aimlessly outside the circle of accomplishment.

If it helps you get through the day, great. Believe it. Just be smart about how you go about trying to "educate" people.
And there are numerous scientists in history who would disagree with you as they studied what they found in God's creation and then made a magnificent contribution from what they've learned.

The concept of Macro Evolution has never produced one single microspeck of any contribution of any conceivable nature to humanity.
 
Originally posted by iowahawkeyes1986:
Originally posted by HoundedHawk:

Originally posted by DianaMoonGlampers:


Originally posted by HoundedHawk:


Originally posted by ricflair4LIFE:
Does that mean nothing has evolved?
Almost everything has evolved. It's in the design by God.
This may be a stupid question, but I have never had it explained to me by someone who believes it. Why would god design evolution? Why would he not just create something perfect, just the way he wanted it?
A part of the perfection, is the natural selection found in our code working with the environment.

If god is perfect and all powerful as you say, why doesn't he simply just destroy evil? If he is all powerful, that should certainly be well within his power. Either he chooses not to destroy evil and he is wicked or incompetent, or he is not all powerful and thus can't destroy evil.

The problem of evil.

god is testing us. you have failed. i have failed.
 
Originally posted by Hawkness Monster:

Originally posted by FMHoosier:
Just a reminder as this thread moves forward, Hounded does not represent all Christians.

That's a good point. I like Hounded, and have questioned my own faith on this board in the past. But just when I think I've come to a point where I feel pretty good about what I believe, one of these threads come around and casts a shadow over me.

Hounded often does more to harm his cause than help it.
Actually, you're not in position to truly judge that. I don't even know if you know what my cause is, but I do understand you can say it in the form of an opinion.

If people are turned off by those who preach the Bible because those who preach it actually believe it, then that's too bad.
This post was edited on 3/31 10:42 PM by HoundedHawkif(GetAdminCookie() != 0) {document.write(' (Revisions[/URL])');}
 
Originally posted by uiowa08:
Where are you getting this idea that it is rammed down our throats every week?? Evolution is more prevalent in our media/society than religion?
Yes, it is. Especially, when it is THE state sponsored religion.

Originally posted by uiowa08:
I don't know where you went to school, but I was never exposed that hard to evolution until I took Human Origins at Iowa. It was touched on in high school, but never studied too indepthly. I have been indoctrinated with religion exponentially more often than I have with the science of evolution.
It is also a new day and age from when we grew up. It's far more prevalent now.

Originally posted by uiowa08:
Do you watch tv? Drive a car? Use electricity? A toilet? running water? The internet? A microwave? The same process and procedures used to develop these technologies is also responsible for the theory of evolution. The problem with you religious folks is that you cherry pick what science to believe based on how it meshes with your religious beliefs.
And it is also people who believe in creation who developed things such as you mention. Had an MRI? Many of today's modern conveniences were deisgned by people who believe in a Designer. I just stayed two weeks ago in the house of a top engineer for Dodge, who is a dedicated creationist.
 
Originally posted by nmaddog:
How does religion explain man's "belief" in evolution?

Evolution can explain man's belief in religion, so I was just wondering if the reverse is true.

Trying to guess I come up with these possibilities

It's a false concept propagated by Satan to lead man away from God's truth; or

It's God testing man's faith.

Is there anything else?

Is there a place in religion for evolution, without it being a lie or a test?


There is no place in religion for evolution, because they are diametrically opposed. The religionists have it right on this one. I suppose one could be a deist and say that God started everything in motion and let the natural processes take over. However, that brings up one major issue, which is what evolutionary mechanism would allow for the human soul? To clarify, does a home Erectus lack a soul and then all of a sudden Homo Sapiens possess one? And as you know, in evoutionary terms, there is no clear dividing line between the two species, they are classifications that work well, but are only a model. I suppose you could say that every living thing posesses a soul, but then we are talking about the lowest bacteria and single-celled organisms.

As much as some try to reconcile the two, they cannot honestly be reconciled.
 
Originally posted by uiowa08:

Originally posted by HoundedHawk:


Originally posted by uiowa08:
I think the bottom line is that you can't really trust religious people for any matter concering science. We would still be living in the stone age worshipping the sun if religion had its way.
There are two potential problems with this.

1. Some of the very best scientists are religious.
2. Many of the scientists who don't claim to be religious are indeed very religious, but just don't know it.

Believing in a god does not equal being religious.

Science cannot flourish in the collectivism that is religion.
And that is the problem with the religion of Macro Evolution.
 
Originally posted by nmaddog:
How does religion explain man's "belief" in evolution?

Evolution can explain man's belief in religion, so I was just wondering if the reverse is true.

Trying to guess I come up with these possibilities

It's a false concept propagated by Satan to lead man away from God's truth; or

It's God testing man's faith.

Is there anything else?

Is there a place in religion for evolution, without it being a lie or a test?
I agree with number one, but I don't agree with number two. Macro Evolution is just one of countless false doctrines that mankind has encountered.

If you were the Devil, and wanted the destruction of souls, what would you do?
 
If god is perfect and all powerful as you say, why doesn't he simply just destroy evil? If he is all powerful, that should certainly be well within his power. Either he chooses not to destroy evil and he is wicked or incompetent, or he is not all powerful and thus can't destroy evil.

The problem of evil.

Because then He would have to destroy freedom of choice, and then there would be no purpose for mankind.
 
Let me go on record as stating I hate the board restriction of only one post per minute. Some of us can type very quickly. It makes it very difficult to respond when you're up against ten posters.
 
Originally posted by HoundedHawk:

Originally posted by jrotten666:
So evolution only deals with genetic mutation?
Of course not. Think about the analogy more.

There is nothing else in your analogy. What you are talking about is nothing more than rolling dice and coming up with some random result.
 
Originally posted by jrotten666:

Originally posted by HoundedHawk:


Originally posted by jrotten666:
So evolution only deals with genetic mutation?
Of course not. Think about the analogy more.

There is nothing else in your analogy. What you are talking about is nothing more than rolling dice and coming up with some random result.
Think about the world as being the computer and it's hardware. Think about the potential programs that mutate and survive through natural selection as creatures living in the world.

The more and more I think about it, macro evolution is nothing more than the accumulation of information.
This post was edited on 3/31 5:59 PM by HoundedHawkif(GetAdminCookie() != 0) {document.write(' (Revisions[/URL])');}
 
Originally posted by HoundedHawk:


Originally posted by DavidHawk324:
As for the rest of your talk. I had to laugh at you saying its just not logical about the hard drive thing. So having a virgin give birth is logical? Having a serpant talk is logical? Having people that live 800 years is logical? Resurrecting from the dead after a couple days is logical? Walking on water is logical? Parting a sea is logical? I'd say that if you are trying to prove a point that what Christians believe is true, you might want to stick with the faith argument rather than the logical one.


Yes, it's purely logical, if one first forms a premise that there is a God and He's unlimited in power. Logic would dictate He could easily do those things.
[/QUOTE]

So then you were wrong about what you stated in your first post. For if one forms a premise that Macro Evolution exists, then it is perfectly logical. And if all you need to do is believe in something to the point where something else becomes logical then nothing is truly illogical. So under your definition, you should probably refrain from calling anything illogical. I'll let you go ahead and correct your initial post now.

And if you counter by saying it depends on what you believe in I will say that I think all the things I listed aren't logical which is why I laughed.

Finally, what form of human being do you think was created 10,000 years ago?
 
Originally posted by HoundedHawk:

Originally posted by jrotten666:


Originally posted by HoundedHawk:



Originally posted by jrotten666:
So evolution only deals with genetic mutation?
Of course not. Think about the analogy more.

There is nothing else in your analogy. What you are talking about is nothing more than rolling dice and coming up with some random result.
Think about the world as being the computer and it's hardware. Think about the potential programs that mutate and survive through natural selection as creatures living in the world.

The more and more I think about it, macro evolution is nothing more than the accumulation of information.

This post was edited on 3/31 5:59 PM by HoundedHawk
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What selective pressures are taking place on a computer? Please tell me. And by the way, I work in the IT field.
 
Originally posted by DavidHawk324:
So then you were wrong about what you stated in your first post. For if one forms a premise that Macro Evolution exists, then it is perfectly logical. And if all you need to do is believe in something to the point where something else becomes logical then nothing is truly illogical. So under your definition, you should probably refrain from calling anything illogical. I'll let you go ahead and correct your initial post now.
No correction needs to be made. I called Macro Evolution illogical on the basis of alluding to it being statistically impossible. You called my beliefs illogical based on something entirely different, that is, nothing.

Originally posted by DavidHawk324:
And if you counter by saying it depends on what you believe in I will say that I think all the things I listed aren't logical which is why I laughed.
Laugh away.

Originally posted by DavidHawk324:
Finally, what form of human being do you think was created 10,000 years ago?
A form that if worked genetically backwards would account for every variation of humans on the planet now.
 
Originally posted by jrotten666:
Originally posted by nmaddog:
How does religion explain man's "belief" in evolution?

Evolution can explain man's belief in religion, so I was just wondering if the reverse is true.

Trying to guess I come up with these possibilities

It's a false concept propagated by Satan to lead man away from God's truth; or

It's God testing man's faith.

Is there anything else?

Is there a place in religion for evolution, without it being a lie or a test?


There is no place in religion for evolution, because they are diametrically opposed. The religionists have it right on this one. I suppose one could be a deist and say that God started everything in motion and let the natural processes take over. However, that brings up one major issue, which is what evolutionary mechanism would allow for the human soul? To clarify, does a home Erectus lack a soul and then all of a sudden Homo Sapiens possess one? And as you know, in evoutionary terms, there is no clear dividing line between the two species, they are classifications that work well, but are only a model. I suppose you could say that every living thing posesses a soul, but then we are talking about the lowest bacteria and single-celled organisms.

As much as some try to reconcile the two, they cannot honestly be reconciled.

Most of the religious people I know accept evolution. Most do not take the bible literally or view it as inerrant. Nor are they Deists.

There is, of course, no evidence for the existence of a soul. Like God, there isn't even a definition that would withstand logical or scientific scrutiny, yet still retain the intended significance religious people impute to soul.
 
Originally posted by jrotten666:
What selective pressures are taking place on a computer? Please tell me. And by the way, I work in the IT field.
Memory limitations. Hard drive size. Bad sectors developing. Power failures/fluctuations. Viruses. "Carnivorous" programs developing. Etc.
This post was edited on 3/31 6:09 PM by HoundedHawkif(GetAdminCookie() != 0) {document.write(' (Revisions[/URL])');}
 
Originally posted by HoundedHawk:
Originally posted by jrotten666:
What selective pressures are taking place on a computer? Please tell me. And by the way, I work in the IT field.
Memory limitations. Hard drive size. Bad sectors developing. Power failures/fluctuations. Viruses. "Carnivorous" programs developing. Etc.
This post was edited on 3/31 6:09 PM by HoundedHawkif(GetAdminCookie() != 0) {document.write(' (Revisions[/URL])');}

i'm looking foward to jrottens response.
 
Originally posted by nmaddog:
There is, of course, no evidence for the existence of a soul. Like God, there isn't even a definition that would withstand logical or scientific scrutiny, yet still retain the intended significance religious people impute to soul.
There is a definition for God that does withstand logical scrutiny. Some would say logic demands a God with this description.
 
to help ole boy HoundedHawk out a bit, here is one of the 'logical' arguements that god exists. obviously i don't believe it, but it is possible to logically deduce that god exists.

Plantinga
1. God exists in the understanding but not in reality. (Assumption for reductio)
2. Existence in reality is greater than existence in the understanding alone. (Premise)
3. A being having all of God's properties plus existence in reality can be conceived. (Premise)
4. A being having all of God's properties plus existence in reality is greater than God (From (1) and (2).)
5. A being greater than God can be conceived. (From (3) and (4).)
6. It is false that a being greater than God can be conceived. (From definition of "God".)
7. Hence, it is false that God exists in the understanding but not in reality. (From (1), (5), (6).)
8. God exists in the understanding. (Premise, to which even the Fool agrees.)
9. Hence God exists in reality. (From (7), (8).)
 
Originally posted by HoundedHawk:

Originally posted by jrotten666:
What selective pressures are taking place on a computer? Please tell me. And by the way, I work in the IT field.
Memory limitations. Hard drive size. Bad sectors developing. Power failures/fluctuations. Viruses. "Carnivorous" programs developing. Etc.

This post was edited on 3/31 6:09 PM by HoundedHawk
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Those are selective pressures? In the first place, a computer system is already a complex object produced by man. What you are talking about are system failures analogous to diseases in the human organism, but not even really that, because it is a MACHINE. When a computer system is able to replicate itself and pass it's properties to it's "offspring", corruptions and all, then get back to me (i.e. when it becomes something more than a machine created by man).

By the way, what is an example of a "carnivourous" program, apart from a virus? Applications do not develop on their own, although perhaps some of the current AI software is able to do something along those lines, but they do not spontaneously arise on their own.
 
Originally posted by castichawk24:
Originally posted by HoundedHawk:
Originally posted by jrotten666:
What selective pressures are taking place on a computer? Please tell me. And by the way, I work in the IT field.

Memory limitations. Hard drive size. Bad sectors developing. Power failures/fluctuations. Viruses. "Carnivorous" programs developing. Etc.

This post was edited on 3/31 6:09 PM by HoundedHawkif(GetAdminCookie() != 0) {document.write(' (Revisions[/URL])');}

i'm looking foward to jrottens response.
He's probably waiting for a serious answer to his question. None of those qualify.
 
Originally posted by nmaddog:
Originally posted by castichawk24:
Originally posted by HoundedHawk:
Originally posted by jrotten666:
What selective pressures are taking place on a computer? Please tell me. And by the way, I work in the IT field.

Memory limitations. Hard drive size. Bad sectors developing. Power failures/fluctuations. Viruses. "Carnivorous" programs developing. Etc.

This post was edited on 3/31 6:09 PM by HoundedHawkif(GetAdminCookie() != 0) {document.write(' (Revisions[/URL])');}


i'm looking foward to jrottens response.
He's probably waiting for a serious answer to his question. None of those qualify.

that's why i was waiting. and jrotten came through.
 
Originally posted by jrotten666:
Those are selective pressures?
Yes, of course they are. And, BTW - I said it was "like" this, that is I used a simile, a comparison using like or as. I didn't ever say it was a perfect analogy. Nothing could be. But it is very similar in that it is all about the accumulation of "positive" information without destroying itself.

Originally posted by jrotten666:
What you are talking about are system failures analogous to diseases in the human organism, but not even really that, because it is a MACHINE.
One is a biological machine, the other manmade.

Originally posted by jrotten666:
When a computer system is able to replicate itself and pass it's properties to it's "offspring", corruptions and all, then get back to me (i.e. when it becomes something more than a machine created by man.
You're missing parts of the comparision. I never said the computer would replicate itself. I compared it to the world. Does the world replicate itself? No, it is the environment in which evolution is alleged to have occurred. I plainly stated I was referring the software developing. Don't create straw mans here for me now to deal with. I've got enough to do.

Originally posted by jrotten666:
By the way, what is an example of a "carnivourous" program, apart from a virus? Applications do not develop on their own,
Ah, and this is a part of the point.
 
Originally posted by nmaddog:

Originally posted by castichawk24:

Originally posted by HoundedHawk:

Originally posted by jrotten666:
What selective pressures are taking place on a computer? Please tell me. And by the way, I work in the IT field.

Memory limitations. Hard drive size. Bad sectors developing. Power failures/fluctuations. Viruses. "Carnivorous" programs developing. Etc.


This post was edited on 3/31 6:09 PM by HoundedHawk
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i'm looking foward to jrottens response.
He's probably waiting for a serious answer to his question. None of those qualify.
You go girl.
 
Originally posted by HoundedHawk:
Originally posted by nmaddog:



Originally posted by castichawk24:



Originally posted by HoundedHawk:



Originally posted by jrotten666:
What selective pressures are taking place on a computer? Please tell me. And by the way, I work in the IT field.



Memory limitations. Hard drive size. Bad sectors developing. Power failures/fluctuations. Viruses. "Carnivorous" programs developing. Etc.


This post was edited on 3/31 6:09 PM by HoundedHawk
if(GetAdminCookie() != 0) {document.write(' (Revisions[/URL])');}




i'm looking foward to jrottens response.


He's probably waiting for a serious answer to his question. None of those qualify.
You go girl.
I challenge you to explain how your"answers" make sense in a natural selection context.

For some reason people put up with your bizarre language skills and rediculous assertions and respond to you like you're not an idiot. I think it's time to call your hand.

Put up or shut up.
 
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