Over 90% of us believe in God and half don't believe in . . .

[fsu1jreed]

Originally posted by CeMar_Clone:
If eveolution really happened with the start being lighting and sustances here on earth interacting to create one celled living creatures, then why has science not replicated this in the lab. I am not talking about creating proteins in a dish, why has science not created living cells in dish from nothing?

Scale. If it did happen like that, it took a few hundred million of years in a huge lab (ie. the Earth). Something we'll never be able to replicate.


Personally IMO, life is everywhere in the universe and it just found a suitable place to propagate on. Life can survive is some of the most inhospitable places.

 

[uiowa08]

Originally posted by fsu1jreed:

Originally posted by CeMar_Clone:
If eveolution really happened with the start being lighting and sustances here on earth interacting to create one celled living creatures, then why has science not replicated this in the lab. I am not talking about creating proteins in a dish, why has science not created living cells in dish from nothing?

Scale. If it did happen like that, it took a few hundred million of years in a huge lab (ie. the Earth). Something we'll never be able to replicate.


Personally IMO, life is everywhere in the universe and it just found a suitable place to propagate on. Life can survive is some of the most inhospitable places.

Life IS everywhere in the universe. The building blocks of life, organic molecules, are superfluous in the vast realms of space. Coupled with the fact that amino acids have also been found on space, if the two were to somehow end up in the right spot (ie a place liked earth), life could develop.

 

[fsu1jreed]

Originally posted by uiowa08:

Life IS everywhere in the universe. The building blocks of life, organic molecules, are superfluous in the vast realms of space. Coupled with the fact that amino acids have also been found on space, if the two were to somehow end up in the right spot (ie a place liked earth), life could develop.

I'm referring to bacteria and viruses also.

 

[Rambam99]

Religion best deals with the origins of existence, our purpose here, and the establishment and social enforcement of moral codes by which to live our lives.

Religion fails, or more accurately, the people who use religion as the basis for their ill-conceived science views fail, when they attempt to fit natural and physical phenomena into a religious framework and explain things solely or largely within that framework.

The most interesting aspects of this topic are the reasons why people so rigidly cling to their religious views when they so clash with established scientific consensus. They feel they are being "righteous" when they do this, no doubt. In the same the Muslims cling to their perceived teachings.

People do very strange things when they think their God is behind it.

 

[Jeli]

Originally posted by nmaddog:

Originally posted by PhilHartman:
Science doesn't comdemn you to never ending torment and pain if you don't truely believe it, but Christianity and Satanism do.

By Jove, I think you've hit upon the answer! Disbelief in science needs strong penalties. And none of this waiting around until after you're dead, either.

If we want to end this seemingly endless scourge of idiocy - especially now that so many of the idiots have control of serious weapons - we should probably eradicate entire bloodlines at the first indication of genetic weakness - i.e., all who fail to grasp evolution.

If we work fast, in a generation or two we should have pretty much eliminated the defective genetic material from the gene pool.

Unfortunately, clearing the human gene pool of the genetic substrate for accepting and violently defending unsubstantiated belief would probably require exterminating the whole species. Irrational behavior and belief has obviously been selected for over millions of years of evolution. Just because we've reached a stage when those genes and that behavior no longer confer survival advantages, doesn't mean we aren't still driven by those evolved predispositions.

Evolved predispositions?

What was the primitive state? When did it become derived, and from what?

If you want a baseline for estabishing roughly when it was that humans got the religious BS gene, look no further than the Neolithic and the origins of settled, agricultural living.

Do you think cats, dogs, chickens, and herding mammals were the only critters people domesticated? Permanent village living involved the domestication of humans, just like other mammals. This domestication was accomplished by seizing control of human reproduction and establishing guidelines for acceptable breeding through religious dogma.

Wanna test case? Investigate feral children. They are extremely informative. You can take the society out of the child, and learn a lot in the process.

 

[CeMar_Clone]

The building blocks are everywhere, I agree. But they have to come together in a biological form, which should be able to be replicated in a lab. But from what I understand about biology (I am definitely no expert), but I believe that there is a basic law in biology that life only comes from other life. If this is true, then life could not start on its own on earth by any natural process, unless it came from outer space. And if it did, then the life from outerspace STILL had to meet this biological law.

 

[Rambam99]

Originally posted by CeMar_Clone:
The building blocks are everywhere, I agree. But they have to come together in a biological form, which should be able to be replicated in a lab. But from what I understand about biology (I am definitely no expert), but I believe that there is a basic law in biology that life only comes from other life. If this is true, then life could not start on its own on earth by any natural process, unless it came from outer space. And if it did, then the life from outerspace STILL had to meet this biological law.

I don't think you understand much about biology. Not meant as a flame.

 

[HoundedHawk]

Originally posted by PhilHartman:
No, it's clearly you that hate God, you hate that the clues he left us are only for hard working, logical minded scientists and you hate that faith really plays no part in discovering God.In reality, faith is just a way to ignore God.

I love all the clues left behind by God. I just don't interpret them the way you do. And, to me, you plainly ignore the greatest clues.

Originally posted by PhilHartman:


You remind me of a story about a guy stranded on his roof during a flood...

Once upon a time, a fundamentalist was stranded on a roof during a flood. A man came by in a boat and yelled, "Get in!" The fundamentalist replied, "No thanks! I believe in God, and He will grant me a miracle." Soon the water was up to his waist. Another boat came by. Again he refused help saying God would grant him a miracle. When the water got up to his chest, another boat came. He turned it down, too. "God will grant me a miracle," he said. As the water reached his chin, a helicopter threw down a ladder. But he would not grab it. Choking on the water, he mumbled that God would send him a miracle. A few minutes later, when he arrived at the gates of Heaven, he started to complain that God had let him down and not sent any miracle! But St. Peter cut him off saying: "What are you talking about? We sent you three boats and a helicopter!"


You're the man on the roof, and your pride is stopping you from seeing the truth.

By your own words you will be judged. Don't be surprised to hear this very common story you borrowed at your judgment. God gave you His Scripture but you rejected it and drowned.

Originally posted by PhilHartman:
God has given us all the reasoning and clues we need to discover him through science, but you refuse to look.

I've looked at the scientific evidence at it points me to a creator. I'm just a more free thinker than you. To quote Lord Kelvin, the father of thermodynamics:

I cannot admit that, with regard to the origin of life, science neither affirms nor denies Creative Power. Science positively affirms Creative Power. It is not in dead matter that we live and move and have our being, but in the creating and directing Power which science compels us to accept as an article of belief.... There is nothing between absolute scientific belief in a Creative Power, and the acceptance of the theory of a fortuitous concourse of atoms.... Forty years ago I asked Liebig, walking somewhere in the country if he believed that the grass and flowers that we saw around us grew by mere chemical forces. He answered, “No, no more than I could believe that a book of botany describing them could grow by mere chemical forces”.... Do not be afraid of being free thinkers! If you think strongly enough you will be forced by science to the belief in God, which is the foundation of all religion. You will find science not antagonistic but helpful to religion.

Originally posted by PhilHartman:
Everytime you get caught up in one of these threads it becomes more and more obvious. You truely hate God. Now granted, you LOVE the Christian myth of a god that requires worship and faith, but that's not the real God, that's the man-made god, the false god.

Well, at least it's on record that you truly hate the God of the Bible.

Originally posted by PhilHartman:

These threads you start are clearly cries for help, but only you can abandon your man-made myths and truely start seeking to know God.

They are by no means a cry for help. They are warnings that will be played back at your judgment unless you quit rejecting the greatest work of God.

 

[HoundedHawk]

Originally posted by DTP2:
I realize people fool themselves into believing a lie all the time. You are Example A. Even worse, you lie about the motives of your ideological opponents (is that bearing false witness?)

Prove I'm lying about anything.

Originally posted by DTP2:
Based on the things you have said here, apparently the only reason people could disbelieve in your god is so that they would have an excuse to engage in all kinds of "sinful" behavior. This isn't the least bit true and I think you are a liar for arguing otherwise.

On the contrary, you lie by creating yet another straw man argument. I never said it is the only reason.

Originally posted by DTP2:
Furthermore, I did not contradict myself at all.

You plainly state something is not your reason, but then you reveal those exact feelings. You're in denial.

Originally posted by DTP2:
However, if I knew your god was real, I still wouldn't allow its morality to trump my own.

Which only proves my assertion about your obvious motivations.

Originally posted by DTP2:
And my morality does not allow me to honor or respect a being that would sentence a person to hell for an eternity for any reason let alone many of the trivials reasons given for a person deserving such a fate.

And yet another affirmation of the real reason you don't really believe in such a God.

 

[HoundedHawk]

Originally posted by fsu1jreed:

Originally posted by CeMar_Clone:
If eveolution really happened with the start being lighting and sustances here on earth interacting to create one celled living creatures, then why has science not replicated this in the lab. I am not talking about creating proteins in a dish, why has science not created living cells in dish from nothing?

Scale. If it did happen like that, it took a few hundred million of years in a huge lab (ie. the Earth). Something we'll never be able to replicate.

And this demonstrates you are practicing a strong faith based system.

 

[Rambam99]

By your own words you will be judged.

Is that in Scripture? Where?

 

[HoundedHawk]

Originally posted by uiowa08:
Life IS everywhere in the universe.

Please show me one ounce of real proof that life exists outside this planet.

Originally posted by uiowa08:
The building blocks of life, organic molecules, are superfluous in the vast realms of space. Coupled with the fact that amino acids have also been found on space, if the two were to somehow end up in the right spot (ie a place liked earth), life could develop.

Isn't that like saying since there is sand on the moon, evetually a sand castle will form? The alleged building blocks of life are no more life than are the actual blocks of bricks that make up a home. It will never assemble itself.

 

[fsu1jreed]

Originally posted by HoundedHawk:

Originally posted by fsu1jreed:

Originally posted by CeMar_Clone:
If eveolution really happened with the start being lighting and sustances here on earth interacting to create one celled living creatures, then why has science not replicated this in the lab. I am not talking about creating proteins in a dish, why has science not created living cells in dish from nothing?

Scale. If it did happen like that, it took a few hundred million of years in a huge lab (ie. the Earth). Something we'll never be able to replicate.

And this demonstrates you are practicing a strong faith based system.

Not when we used a small scale (see Miller's for reference) experiment and amino acids were created rather easy. Who's know what could happen if given enough time?


And like I said, I don't think life started here. It just landed here and found a habitable place to evolve.

 

[P Shiver]

Remember how mad Moses was in the Ten Commandments when the Israelites started worshipping idols (aka false gods)?

I wonder how mad God is that man created this three-headed monster that so many people now pray to?

I'm sure the Devil doesn't mind.
This post was edited on 4/2 1:13 PM by P Shiverif(GetAdminCookie() != 0) {document.write(' (Revisions[/URL])');}

 

[HoundedHawk]

Originally posted by Rambam99:
By your own words you will be judged.

Is that in Scripture? Where?

Mt 7:2 - “For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. - (NASB)
That standard is formed by the words we speak.

Mt 12:36-37 - “And I say to you, that every careless word that men shall speak, they shall render account for it in the day of judgment. “For by your words you shall be justified, and by your words you shall be condemned.” - (NASB)

 

[fsu1jreed]

Originally posted by HoundedHawk:

Isn't that like saying since there is sand on the moon, evetually a sand castle will form? The alleged building blocks of life are no more life than are the actual blocks of bricks that make up a home. It will never assemble itself.

And you know this how? Oh, that's right you don't. What's going to happen to your fragile ontological belief system when we find life outside this planet? You're going to have a break down, because then you'd have no explanation for it.

 

[Rambam99]

Originally posted by P Shiver:
Remember how mad Moses was in the Ten Commandments when the Israelites started worshipping idols (aka false gods)?

I wonder how mad God is that man created this three-headed monster that so many people now pray to?

I'm sure the Devil doesn't mind.

This post was edited on 4/2 1:13 PM by P Shiver
if(GetAdminCookie() != 0) {document.write(' (Revisions[/URL])');}

Excellent post.

Isn't it strange how the "trinity" is so unthinkingly accepted as a monotheistic entity?

Three, three, three gods in one.

Sounds like a breath mint ad campaign.

 

[HoundedHawk]

Originally posted by fsu1jreed:


Not when we used a small scale (see Miller's for reference) experiment and amino acids were created rather easy. Who's know what could happen if given enough time?

Like I said, it's a faith based system.

Originally posted by fsu1jreed:
And like I said, I don't think life started here. It just landed here and found a habitable place to evolve.

Like I said, it's a faith based system.

 

[HoundedHawk]

Originally posted by fsu1jreed:
And you know this how? Oh, that's right you don't. What's going to happen to your fragile ontological belief system when we find life outside this planet? You're going to have a break down, because then you'd have no explanation for it.

And you know this will happen how? Oh, that's right. You don't.

Like I said, your's is a faith based system.
This post was edited on 4/2 1:24 PM by HoundedHawkif(GetAdminCookie() != 0) {document.write(' (Revisions[/URL])');}

 

[castichawk24]

Originally posted by fsu1jreed:

Originally posted by HoundedHawk:

Isn't that like saying since there is sand on the moon, evetually a sand castle will form? The alleged building blocks of life are no more life than are the actual blocks of bricks that make up a home. It will never assemble itself.

And you know this how? Oh, that's right you don't. What's going to happen to your fragile ontological belief system when we find life outside this planet? You're going to have a break down, because then you'd have no explanation for it.

god will just be testing us. figure it out.

 

[Rambam99]

“For by your words you shall be justified, and by your words you shall be condemned.” - (NASB)


So our words will condemn us?

Break it down for us, then. So we can believe in Jesus as our personal Lord and Savior and all that, but we can still get our ticket punched to the frozen lake by our "words"?

What's the fundy fine print on this whole thing? Can we ask for forgiveness for our words and get our slate wiped (perpetually) clean? Or are some words forever, indelibly marked on our religious chalkboard?

 

[Rambam99]

Originally posted by HoundedHawk:

Originally posted by fsu1jreed:
And you know this how? Oh, that's right you don't. What's going to happen to your fragile ontological belief system when we find life outside this planet? You're going to have a break down, because then you'd have no explanation for it.

And you know this will happen how? Oh, that's right. You don't.

Like I said, it's a faith based system.

Except for the "words", right, that can condemn us?

And faith without works is dead, so we need the works, too.

 

[HoundedHawk]

Originally posted by Rambam99:
Isn't it strange how the "trinity" is so unthinkingly accepted as a monotheistic entity?

Three, three, three gods in one.

Sounds like a breath mint ad campaign.

I don't use the term "trinity," but I do accept that God manifests Himself in different forms. After all, we do this in much smaller fashions. I am a father. I am also a son. I am also an employee. What aspect of God can we truly understand? We can't understand how something can be everywhere at once, nor how He can't have a beginning. I wouldn't expect to fully understand this aspect of His entity either.

 

[fsu1jreed]

Hounded,

You are so lost man, you are. If your god exists and he did create things the way you'd say, I'd really question his/her/it's intelligence.



You'd fit right in with the Dark ages. People like you shows that we're really not that advanced of a species.


I hope, for your sake, we never discover life outside this planet, because as it is you're barely hanging on to reality. If that happened...........................I'll just leave it at that.




Belief system?!? Whatever helps you sleep better at night.

 

[HoundedHawk]

Originally posted by Rambam99:

Originally posted by HoundedHawk:

Originally posted by fsu1jreed:
And you know this how? Oh, that's right you don't. What's going to happen to your fragile ontological belief system when we find life outside this planet? You're going to have a break down, because then you'd have no explanation for it.

And you know this will happen how? Oh, that's right. You don't.

Like I said, it's a faith based system.

Except for the "words", right, that can condemn us?

And faith without works is dead, so we need the works, too.

Let me clarify. Every time I've said "It's a faith based system," I've actually been referring to FSU's system.

 

[P Shiver]

Originally posted by HoundedHawk:

Originally posted by Rambam99:
Isn't it strange how the "trinity" is so unthinkingly accepted as a monotheistic entity?

Three, three, three gods in one.

Sounds like a breath mint ad campaign.

I don't use the term "trinity," but I do accept that God manifests Himself in different forms. After all, we do this in much smaller fashions. I am a father. I am also a son. I am also an employee. What aspect of God can we truly understand? We can't understand how something can be everywhere at once, nor how He can't have a beginning. I wouldn't expect to fully understand this aspect of His entity either.

When you address yourself, do you do so as "Father?"

 

[3rd & 10 drwplay]

What god did dinosaurs believe in?
What religion does the grey aliens from the zeta reticuli binary star system follow?
Do you think muslim and christianity are only specific to the Milky Way galaxy or do they universally transcendent through the whole supercluster?

 

[HoundedHawk]

Originally posted by P Shiver:
When you address yourself, do you do so as "Father?"

I actually don't address myself at all. But, then again, I don't possess God's incredible entity nor live outside of linear time either.

 

[P Shiver]

Originally posted by HoundedHawk:

Originally posted by P Shiver:
When you address yourself, do you do so as "Father?"

I actually don't address myself at all. But, then again, I don't possess God's incredible entity nor live outside of linear time either.

Now that's what I call "Faith."

 

[HoundedHawk]

Originally posted by fsu1jreed:
Hounded,

You are so lost man, you are. If your god exists and he did create things the way you'd say, I'd really question his/her/it's intelligence.

LOL - Yeah, that makes sense. After one acknowledged the entire known universe and it's unfathomable amount of matter, energy, and organization, a logical thinker would then look to the heavens with engineering disappointment and say, "Wow, I really question your intelligence!"

LISTEN to yourself.

Originally posted by fsu1jreed:
You'd fit right in with the Dark ages. People like you shows that we're really not that advanced of a species.
Belief system?!? Whatever helps you sleep better at night.

Oh, the sweet smelling aroma of the ad hominem sacrifice. Always a wonderful validating experience.

Originally posted by fsu1jreed:
I hope, for your sake, we never discover life outside this planet, because as it is you're barely hanging on to reality. If that happened...........................I'll just leave it at that.

"If that happened . . ." You are a man of faith. Who knows what your future holds.

Originally posted by fsu1jreed:
Belief system?!? Whatever helps you sleep better at night.

Hey, you're the one talking about things happening that haven't happened yet, as surely happening. That's called "faith." You're the one that believes life is out there with no such validation as fact coming from science.

 

[Warrior20]

Where did God come from? Why did he only present himself to certain people? Did he forget about Native Americans and others?

 

[HoundedHawk]

Originally posted by P Shiver:

Originally posted by HoundedHawk:

Originally posted by P Shiver:
When you address yourself, do you do so as "Father?"

I actually don't address myself at all. But, then again, I don't possess God's incredible entity nor live outside of linear time either.

Now that's what I call "Faith."

I am not ashamsed to be a man of faith. However, that referenced sentence of mine doesn't have a lot to do with faith. I feel virtually intellectually forced to believe there is a God. And if there is a God those are things He must possess. It doesn't really have anything to do with my strong faith that the Bible is the word of God. However, it is only by faith that I believe God does manifest Himself as a Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

 

[Rambam99]

Originally posted by Warrior20:
Where did God come from? Why did he only present himself to certain people? Did he forget about Native Americans and others?

Blasphemer.

 

[Warrior20]

Originally posted by Rambam99:

Originally posted by Warrior20:
Where did God come from? Why did he only present himself to certain people? Did he forget about Native Americans and others?

Blasphemer.

Hey, it's only a few harmless questions. I was just hoping to hear an answer or two.

 

[Rambam99]

Originally posted by Warrior20:

Originally posted by Rambam99:

Originally posted by Warrior20:
Where did God come from? Why did he only present himself to certain people? Did he forget about Native Americans and others?

Blasphemer.

Hey, it's only a few harmless questions. I was just hoping to hear an answer or two.

You gotta watch your words, dude.

They can condemn you. Harmless? Jesus doesn't think so.

 

[DTP2]

Originally posted by HoundedHawk:

Originally posted by DTP2:
I realize people fool themselves into believing a lie all the time. You are Example A. Even worse, you lie about the motives of your ideological opponents (is that bearing false witness?)

Prove I'm lying about anything.

Originally posted by DTP2:
Based on the things you have said here, apparently the only reason people could disbelieve in your god is so that they would have an excuse to engage in all kinds of "sinful" behavior. This isn't the least bit true and I think you are a liar for arguing otherwise.

On the contrary, you lie by creating yet another straw man argument. I never said it is the only reason.

Originally posted by DTP2:
Furthermore, I did not contradict myself at all.

You plainly state something is not your reason, but then you reveal those exact feelings. You're in denial.

Originally posted by DTP2:
However, if I knew your god was real, I still wouldn't allow its morality to trump my own.

Which only proves my assertion about your obvious motivations.

Originally posted by DTP2:
And my morality does not allow me to honor or respect a being that would sentence a person to hell for an eternity for any reason let alone many of the trivials reasons given for a person deserving such a fate.

And yet another affirmation of the real reason you don't really believe in such a God.

You continue to assert that I disbelieve in your god in order engage in behavior that supposedly violates its rules even though I'm not engaging in such behavior. Yet, you don't believe me because you clearly believe that this the only reason people disbelieve in your god while falling back on the fact that you never really said this even though your position is transparent. Furthermore, you seem to think I have proven you correct about my motives for disbelieving in your god because I state its morality would not trump my own if I knew your god were real. Therefore, if I will still engage in "sinful" behavior if I knew your god were real, there would be no reason for me to fool myself into disbelieving in him. My reasons for disbelieving in your god have absolutely nothing to do with a desire to engage in activities you would label "sinful" and this is not contradicted by the fact that I would not necessarily agree with any laws handed down by your god.

 

[Warrior20]

Originally posted by Rambam99:

Originally posted by Warrior20:

Originally posted by Rambam99:

Originally posted by Warrior20:
Where did God come from? Why did he only present himself to certain people? Did he forget about Native Americans and others?

Blasphemer.

Hey, it's only a few harmless questions. I was just hoping to hear an answer or two.

You gotta watch your words, dude.

They can condemn you. Harmless? Jesus doesn't think so.

If answers to those questions cannot be found, why wouldn't Jesus forgive a person for having doubts? Is an Indian supposed to trust the words of the people who hand them blankets infected with small pox?

 

[fsu1jreed]

Originally posted by HoundedHawk:

"If that happened . . ." You are a man of faith. Who knows what your future holds.

The "If" I'm referring to is in your life time. If we're around long enough I have no doubt we will find life outside our planet. The numbers are on my side that we do. Think about it, we've only really explored one planet(Earth) and there is life everywhere we look from hydrothermal vents to the cooling rods of nuclear power plant(wait a minute, bacteria evolved the ability to live there.......hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm), so we're 1 for 1 on finding life.

 

[P Shiver]

Why would God insist on one believing in his son for salvation? Why not just believe in God?

I'm trying to remember what the first commandment is.

 

[Rambam99]

Originally posted by P Shiver:
Why would God insist on one believing in his son for salvation? Why not just believe in God?

I'm trying to remember what the first commandment is.

Sometimes the simplest sounding questions are the most probing.

Good talk, Rusty.