Over 90% of us believe in God and half don't believe in . . .

Warrior20

HR MVP
Aug 20, 2003
1,344
0
36
Originally posted by P Shiver:
Why would God insist on one believing in his son for salvation? Why not just believe in God?

I'm trying to remember what the first commandment is.

I know worshipping Zeus would be a violation of the first commandment. Did those that did go to hell, or spend time in purgatory? How were they to know they had the wrong god?
 

P Shiver

HR MVP
Feb 19, 2007
1,429
0
36
Originally posted by Rambam99:

Originally posted by P Shiver:


Originally posted by Rambam99:
Good talk, Rusty.

Thanks Dad. I mean me.

I gotta tell ya, though, I keep thinking of Pam Shriver when I see your handle.

Well, I didn't think it would last this long.

Wyatt must be busy stitching together one of his skin suits.
 

Rambam99

HR All-American
Sep 29, 2004
3,655
0
36
Originally posted by P Shiver:

Originally posted by Rambam99:


Originally posted by P Shiver:



Originally posted by Rambam99:
Good talk, Rusty.

Thanks Dad. I mean me.

I gotta tell ya, though, I keep thinking of Pam Shriver when I see your handle.

Well, I didn't think it would last this long.

Wyatt must be busy stitching together one of his skin suits.

Lol.

Considering the number of people on this site who can discuss Judaism is about one (you, not me).
 

iowahawkeyes1986

HR Legend
Jul 14, 2003
11,849
2
36
Originally posted by fsu1jreed:
Hounded,

You are so lost man, you are. If your god exists and he did create things the way you'd say, I'd really question his/her/it's intelligence./images/smilies/ohwell.gif



You'd fit right in with the Dark ages. People like you shows that we're really not that advanced of a species.


I hope, for your sake, we never discover life outside this planet, because as it is you're barely hanging on to reality. If that happened...........................I'll just leave it at that.




Belief system?!? Whatever helps you sleep better at night.

See what Hounded doesn't realize is we will find this out before too long. We will send missions to Europa, Titan(have already been there, liquid methane oceans on surface, possible water underneath), and Ganymede, etc. Life doesn't have to live near a star to exists, it just needs an energy source, and jovian planets can clearly create such energies. It will be sad day for Hounded if we do find other life, especially in our solar system.

Beyond that, we've only been searching a galaxy of 300 billion stars for sporadic periods. If we are looking for signs of life on 300 billion stars, it will take a while and a lot more effort. We need a radio telescope in space.

Whats scary though, if we did happen to find some advanced civilization, Houndeds type will probably attempt to convert them to Christianity. I doubt he would question his own beliefs. Attacks from the outside only tend to make ones convictions stronger, and Hounded is a perfect example of that(hes right, everyone else is wrong). The attack has to come from the inside.

What I find really funny though is Hounded constantly yaps, "the universe needs a creator" yet causality doesn't exist without the universe existing. But he just ignores that, anything that doesn't fit in his world view doesn't matter and he has the audacity to call himself "open minded," LOL. It's just the devil trying to trick us.
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HoundedHawk

HR Legend
Oct 2, 2001
20,350
3,561
113
Originally posted by Warrior20:
Where did God come from? Why did he only present himself to certain people? Did he forget about Native Americans and others?
He certainly did not forget about them and gave them an appropriate standard to be judged by until they had access to His law.

God only presented Himself to a certain people because that was all that was required to eventually implement His plan through the Christ. Remember, His presentation of Himself to a certain people didn't help them in the long run. People are people in whatever nation and time.
 

HoundedHawk

HR Legend
Oct 2, 2001
20,350
3,561
113
Originally posted by DTP2:
You continue to assert that I disbelieve in your god in order engage in behavior that supposedly violates its rules even though I'm not engaging in such behavior.
Non sequitur.

Originally posted by DTP2:
Yet, you don't believe me because you clearly believe that this the only reason people disbelieve in your god while falling back on the fact that you never really said this even though your position is transparent.
My true position is that which is transparent. That's because I've stated it, not some alteration you have given.

Originally posted by DTP2:
Furthermore, you seem to think I have proven you correct about my motives for disbelieving in your god because I state its morality would not trump my own if I knew your god were real. Therefore, if I will still engage in "sinful" behavior if I knew your god were real, there would be no reason for me to fool myself into disbelieving in him.
I would disagree.

Originally posted by DTP2:
My reasons for disbelieving in your god have absolutely nothing to do with a desire to engage in activities you would label "sinful" and this is not contradicted by the fact that I would not necessarily agree with any laws handed down by your god.
Your bottom line is still the same. You don't believe in God for both, I would guess. You don't believe because you don't want to participate in His moral system, whether by the flesh or the mind.
 

HoundedHawk

HR Legend
Oct 2, 2001
20,350
3,561
113
Originally posted by Warrior20:
If answers to those questions cannot be found, why wouldn't Jesus forgive a person for having doubts? Is an Indian supposed to trust the words of the people who hand them blankets infected with small pox?
There are answers, so you don't have to worry about it.
 

HoundedHawk

HR Legend
Oct 2, 2001
20,350
3,561
113
Originally posted by fsu1jreed:
The "If" I'm referring to is in your life time. If we're around long enough I have no doubt we will find life outside our planet. FONT>
And that is why I stated you are a man of strong faith.

Originally posted by fsu1jreed:
The numbers are on my side that we do. Think about it, we've only really explored one planet(Earth) and there is life everywhere we look from hydrothermal vents to the cooling rods of nuclear power plant(wait a minute, bacteria evolved the ability to live there.......hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm), so we're 1 for 1 on finding life.
The numbers are not on your side. It's statistically impossible for one DNA to form accidently, let alone anything after it.

And no, you're not 1 for 1. There is no factual evidence of life anywhere we've looked or landed.
 

HoundedHawk

HR Legend
Oct 2, 2001
20,350
3,561
113
Originally posted by P Shiver:
Why would God insist on one believing in his son for salvation? Why not just believe in God?

Because that's the way God wants it. When you make everything you've got perks.
 

nmaddog

HR Heisman
May 31, 2006
5,329
0
36
Originally posted by Rambam99:
(To P Shiver) I gotta tell ya, though, I keep thinking of Pam Shriver when I see your handle.
Me too. Not exactly the same political philosophy, though.
 

iowahawkeyes1986

HR Legend
Jul 14, 2003
11,849
2
36
"The numbers are not on your side. It's statistically impossible for one DNA to form accidently, let alone anything after it."

LOL. Hounded, you say you love science, and yet you butcher it every step of the way. Get a clue, irreducible complexity is a worthless argument and you really show how clueless you are by continuing to argue it.
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fsu1jreed

HR Legend
Apr 1, 2002
47,865
4,384
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Originally posted by HoundedHawk:
The numbers are not on your side. It's statistically impossible for one DNA to form accidently, let alone anything after it.


Back that up please, and please don't bring up Sir Fred Hoyle because you'd lose that debate.

Originally posted by HoundedHawk:
And no, you're not 1 for 1. There is no factual evidence of life anywhere we've looked or landed.


Are you really that clueless?

I guess you've never heard of extremophiles , some of the hardiest bacteria that lives in extreme environments.

Here is a little quote from someone who walked on the moon.

I always thought the most significant thing that we ever found on the whole goddamn Moon was that little bacteria who came back and lived and nobody ever said _____ about it. — Pete Conrad(1)

On April 20, 1967, the unmanned lunar lander Surveyor 3 landed near Oceanus Procellarum on the surface of the moon. One of the things aboard was a television camera. Two-and-a-half years later, on November 20, 1969, Apollo 12 astronauts Pete Conrad and Alan L. Bean recovered the camera. When NASA scientists examined it back on Earth they were surprised to find specimens of Streptococcus mitis that were still alive. Because of the precautions the astronauts had taken, NASA could be sure that the germs were inside the camera when it was retrieved, so they must have been there before the Surveyor 3 was launched. These bacteria had survived for 31 months in the vacuum of the moon's atmosphere. Perhaps NASA shouldn't have been surprised, because there are other bacteria that thrive under near-vacuum pressure on the earth today. Anyway, we now know that the vacuum of space is not a fatal problem for bacteria.



Seriously Hounded you're out of your league on this one. Perhaps you should stay up with current Science, it is the 21st century. Although you were the one who brought up the 'Final theory' book, so I can see where you might be mis-informed.
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ThumperHawk

HR All-American
Sep 30, 2001
4,212
10
38
Originally posted by castichawk24:
...but it is possible to logically deduce that god exists.

Plantinga
1. God exists in the understanding but not in reality. (Assumption for reductio)
2. Existence in reality is greater than existence in the understanding alone. (Premise)
3. A being having all of God's properties plus existence in reality can be conceived. (Premise)
4. A being having all of God's properties plus existence in reality is greater than God (From (1) and (2).)
5. A being greater than God can be conceived. (From (3) and (4).)
6. It is false that a being greater than God can be conceived. (From definition of "God".)
7. Hence, it is false that God exists in the understanding but not in reality. (From (1), (5), (6).)
8. God exists in the understanding. (Premise, to which even the Fool agrees.)
9. Hence God exists in reality. (From (7), (8).)
You can use the exact same type of "logic" to prove god does NOT exist. To paraphrase Richard Dawkins:

1. Even the fool (theist) believes that god is responsible for creation of the universe.

2. The creation of the universe is a feat of which no greater can be conceived.

3. As previously stipulated, god is the being of which no greater can be conceived.

4. Therefore god created the universe.(2),(3)

5. Surely, a being would be greater than god if it managed to create the universe without ever having actually existed.

6. However, according to premise (3) god is a being of which no greater can be conceived.

7. Therefore, god does NOT exist. (6),(7)



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HoundedHawk

HR Legend
Oct 2, 2001
20,350
3,561
113
Originally posted by fsu1jreed:

Originally posted by HoundedHawk:

The numbers are not on your side. It's statistically impossible for one DNA to form accidently, let alone anything after it.


Back that up please, and please don't bring up Sir Fred Hoyle because you'd lose that debate.


Originally posted by HoundedHawk:

And no, you're not 1 for 1. There is no factual evidence of life anywhere we've looked or landed.


Are you really that clueless?

I guess you've never heard of extremophiles , some of the hardiest bacteria that lives in extreme environments.

Here is a little quote from someone who walked on the moon.

I always thought the most significant thing that we ever found on the whole goddamn Moon was that little bacteria who came back and lived and nobody ever said _____ about it. — Pete Conrad(1)

On April 20, 1967, the unmanned lunar lander Surveyor 3 landed near Oceanus Procellarum on the surface of the moon. One of the things aboard was a television camera. Two-and-a-half years later, on November 20, 1969, Apollo 12 astronauts Pete Conrad and Alan L. Bean recovered the camera. When NASA scientists examined it back on Earth they were surprised to find specimens of Streptococcus mitis that were still alive. Because of the precautions the astronauts had taken, NASA could be sure that the germs were inside the camera when it was retrieved, so they must have been there before the Surveyor 3 was launched. These bacteria had survived for 31 months in the vacuum of the moon's atmosphere. Perhaps NASA shouldn't have been surprised, because there are other bacteria that thrive under near-vacuum pressure on the earth today. Anyway, we now know that the vacuum of space is not a fatal problem for bacteria.



Seriously Hounded you're out of your league on this one. Perhaps you should stay up with current Science, it is the 21st century. Although you were the one who brought up the 'Final theory' book, so I can see where you might be mis-informed.
How about you quit creating a constant stream of new straw man arguments and stick with the topic. I said we haven't discovered life anywhere else accept on Earth and I'm right. Then you say I'm clueless and then give an example of life only from Earth.

Talk about evading. Is that all you got? You keep stumbling, so you just morph the argument only to be corrected again.
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fsu1jreed

HR Legend
Apr 1, 2002
47,865
4,384
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Originally posted by HoundedHawk:
How about you quit creating a constant stream of new straw man arguments and stick with the topic. I said we haven't discovered life anywhere else accept on Earth and I'm right. Then you say I'm clueless and then give an example of life only from Earth.

Talk about evading. Is that all you got? You keep stumbling, so you just morph the argument only to be corrected again.
[/QUOTE]


Where have we really looked? Nowhere, but everywhere we've looked here we've found life. I'm giving you examples of life that 30 years ago scientists would've said impossible. It blows my mind that you can fathom a super-natural being that created everything, but you find it 'impossible' that life can exist outside our planet. Are you serious? If bacteria can exist on the cooling rods of our nuclear reactors and survive on the moon for 2 and half years, then chances are it exists elsewhere throughout our solar system, our galaxy, and throughout the universe. Otherwise it's an awful waste of space.

This quote about sums it up.

You'll never understand. Me and you,
Wayne, we're not even the same species.
I used to be you...then I evolved.
From where you're standing, you're a
man. From where I'm standing, you're a
ape. I'm here...I'm right here...
and you...you're somewhere else, man.
You say why? I say why not?


-Mickey (Woody Harrelson)-Natural Born Killers
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ThumperHawk

HR All-American
Sep 30, 2001
4,212
10
38
Originally posted by Rambam99:
“For by your words you shall be justified, and by your words you shall be condemned.” - (NASB)


What's the fundy fine print on this whole thing? Can we ask for forgiveness for our words and get our slate wiped (perpetually) clean? Or are some words forever, indelibly marked on our religious chalkboard?

Whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit can never be forgiven. - Mark 3:29

Thousands[/URL] of unsaved (unsavory?) heathens who've cast their lots against the holy spirit.
 

nmaddog

HR Heisman
May 31, 2006
5,329
0
36
Originally posted by HoundedHawk:
I said we haven't discovered life anywhere else accept on Earth and I'm right.
[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]Maybe. But there have certainly been reports of findings from Mars and meteorites that have been taken to suggest and perhaps prove the existence of life elsewhere. It seems so obvious that live would emerge elsewhere that I haven't paid much attention to why they think these particular bits of evidence point that way.

Don't get me wrong. It will definitely be neat when it is proved that life exists (or existed) somewhere else. But the outcome is so likely that it's hard to get excited about evidence that's merely suggestive.

And, of course, it's possible that it's a lot harder than we think for life to emerge from non-life.
 

iowahawkeyes1986

HR Legend
Jul 14, 2003
11,849
2
36
Originally posted by nmaddog:

Originally posted by HoundedHawk:
I said we haven't discovered life anywhere else accept on Earth and I'm right.



Maybe. But there have certainly been reports of findings from Mars and meteorites that have been taken to suggest and perhaps prove the existence of life elsewhere. It seems so obvious that live would emerge elsewhere that I haven't paid much attention to why they think these particular bits of evidence point that way.

Don't get me wrong. It will definitely be neat when it is proved that life exists (or existed) somewhere else. But the outcome is so likely that it's hard to get excited about evidence that's merely suggestive.

And, of course, it's possible that it's a lot harder than we think for life to emerge from non-life.

Well, Earth is 4.5 billions years old, and as far as we can tell, life arrived not very long after it had formed. Thats seems to suggest to most that life can arise fairly quickly after a planet has formed.
 

PhilHartman

HR Heisman
Nov 21, 2005
9,957
2
36
Originally posted by HoundedHawk:
Originally posted by P Shiver:
Why would God insist on one believing in his son for salvation? Why not just believe in God?

Because that's the way God wants it. When you make everything you've got perks.


Everyone take notice, Hounded's god has "wants"?! You do know that "wants" are? They are needs. You can only want what you do not have... Hounded believes in a "needy" god. A needy god is not an all powerful god by definition...


1.
a. To desire greatly; wish for: They want to leave. She wants a glass of water. See Synonyms at desire.
b. To desire (someone to do something): I want you to clean your room.
2.
a. To request the presence or assistance of: You are wanted by your office.
b. To seek with intent to capture: The fugitive is wanted by the police.
3. To have an inclination toward; like: Say what you want, but be tactful.
4. Informal To be obliged (to do something): You want to be careful on the ice.
5. To be without; lack. See Synonyms at lack.
6. To be in need of; require: "'Your hair wants cutting,' said the Hatter" Lewis Carroll.
v.intr.
1. To have need: wants for nothing.
2. To be destitute or needy.
3. To be disposed; wish: Call me daily if you want.



A needy god...

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/wants
 

Warrior20

HR MVP
Aug 20, 2003
1,344
0
36
Originally posted by HoundedHawk:
Originally posted by Warrior20:
If answers to those questions cannot be found, why wouldn't Jesus forgive a person for having doubts? Is an Indian supposed to trust the words of the people who hand them blankets infected with small pox?
There are answers, so you don't have to worry about it.

You are not very convincing, are you?
 

HoundedHawk

HR Legend
Oct 2, 2001
20,350
3,561
113
Originally posted by fsu1jreed:
Where have we really looked? Nowhere, but everywhere we've looked here we've found life. I'm giving you examples of life that 30 years ago scientists would've said impossible.
Well, scientists are constantly wrong about something so I'm not surprised.

We've looked on the moon and we've remotely looked on Mars. And we've looked through listening all over the sky, but no answer comes. And we've probed other planets in our solar system to find nothing. We've only found life on Earth.

Fact. To say it is elsewhere is operating on faith.

Originally posted by fsu1jreed:
It blows my mind that you can fathom a super-natural being that created everything, but you find it 'impossible' that life can exist outside our planet. Are you serious?
I'm a 100% serious about what I said. But I'm not living up to your pseudo image of me you've created in your own mind. I never said it's impossible for life to exist our planet. Men have existed on the moon when we put them there and I'm sure life can exist somewhere else we put it.

And God is a theoretical solution to the existence of life. We must look outside the material universe for that.

Originally posted by fsu1jreed:
If bacteria can exist on the cooling rods of our nuclear reactors and survive on the moon for 2 and half years, then chances are it exists elsewhere throughout our solar system, our galaxy, and throughout the universe. Otherwise it's an awful waste of space.
You've watched "Contact" one too many times. Plus, just because bacteria can supposedly exist outside the planet, that's a trillion miles away from developing out there. It's irrelevant.

And "waste of space" implies the universe must have a purpose. A purpose can only be given by the Creator of it all. If you don't believe in a Creator then there is zero purpose to any of it, and there never will be.

Originally posted by fsu1jreed:
This quote about sums it up.

You'll never understand. Me and you,
Wayne, we're not even the same species.
I used to be you...then I evolved.
From where you're standing, you're a
man. From where I'm standing, you're a
ape. I'm here...I'm right here...
and you...you're somewhere else, man.
You say why? I say why not?


-Mickey (Woody Harrelson)-Natural Born Killers
I'll give my own quote, and from a much more noble source.

Ps 19:1 - The heavens are telling of the glory of God; And their expanse is declaring the work of His hands. - (NASB)
 

HoundedHawk

HR Legend
Oct 2, 2001
20,350
3,561
113
Originally posted by ThumperHawk:

Originally posted by Rambam99:
“For by your words you shall be justified, and by your words you shall be condemned.” - (NASB)


What's the fundy fine print on this whole thing? Can we ask for forgiveness for our words and get our slate wiped (perpetually) clean? Or are some words forever, indelibly marked on our religious chalkboard?

Whoever blasphemes against the holy spirit can never be forgiven. - Mark 3:29

Thousands of unsaved (unsavory?) heathens who've cast their lots against the holy spirit.
I believe the blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is probably only applicable to those who saw the massive amount of work of by Him during the days of Jesus Christ, and then attributed it to evil. To see all His miraculous, noble, and wonderful work & teachings, and then to attribute it to the Devil demonstrated a heart that would not turn no matter what it was shown.
 

HoundedHawk

HR Legend
Oct 2, 2001
20,350
3,561
113
Originally posted by nmaddog:

Originally posted by HoundedHawk:
I said we haven't discovered life anywhere else accept on Earth and I'm right.



Maybe. But there have certainly been reports of findings from Mars and meteorites that have been taken to suggest and perhaps prove the existence of life elsewhere. It seems so obvious that live would emerge elsewhere that I haven't paid much attention to why they think these particular bits of evidence point that way.

Don't get me wrong. It will definitely be neat when it is proved that life exists (or existed) somewhere else. But the outcome is so likely that it's hard to get excited about evidence that's merely suggestive.

And, of course, it's possible that it's a lot harder than we think for life to emerge from non-life.
I can respect statements like this.
 

HoundedHawk

HR Legend
Oct 2, 2001
20,350
3,561
113
Originally posted by PhilHartman:

Originally posted by HoundedHawk:

Originally posted by P Shiver:
Why would God insist on one believing in his son for salvation? Why not just believe in God?

Because that's the way God wants it. When you make everything you've got perks.


Everyone take notice, Hounded's god has "wants"?! You do know that "wants" are? They are needs. You can only want what you do not have... Hounded believes in a "needy" god. A needy god is not an all powerful god by definition...


1.
a. To desire greatly; wish for: They want to leave. She wants a glass of water. See Synonyms at desire.
b. To desire (someone to do something): I want you to clean your room.
2.
a. To request the presence or assistance of: You are wanted by your office.
b. To seek with intent to capture: The fugitive is wanted by the police.
3. To have an inclination toward; like: Say what you want, but be tactful.
4. Informal To be obliged (to do something): You want to be careful on the ice.
5. To be without; lack. See Synonyms at lack.
6. To be in need of; require: "'Your hair wants cutting,' said the Hatter" Lewis Carroll.
v.intr.
1. To have need: wants for nothing.
2. To be destitute or needy.
3. To be disposed; wish: Call me daily if you want.



A needy god... /images/smilies/roll.gif
Calm down. A "want" and a "need" are not the same. And you know that. Therefore, your argument fails. For example, I need to eat in order to live, versus I merely want a steak to eat.
 

HoundedHawk

HR Legend
Oct 2, 2001
20,350
3,561
113
Originally posted by Warrior20:

Originally posted by HoundedHawk:

Originally posted by Warrior20:
If answers to those questions cannot be found, why wouldn't Jesus forgive a person for having doubts? Is an Indian supposed to trust the words of the people who hand them blankets infected with small pox?
There are answers, so you don't have to worry about it.

You are not very convincing, are you?
If you would read the whole thread you would find the answer. Your scenario involves an false premise.
 

PhilHartman

HR Heisman
Nov 21, 2005
9,957
2
36
Originally posted by HoundedHawk:
Originally posted by PhilHartman:

Originally posted by HoundedHawk:

Originally posted by P Shiver:
Why would God insist on one believing in his son for salvation? Why not just believe in God?

Because that's the way God wants it. When you make everything you've got perks.


Everyone take notice, Hounded's god has "wants"?! You do know that "wants" are? They are needs. You can only want what you do not have... Hounded believes in a "needy" god. A needy god is not an all powerful god by definition...


1.
a. To desire greatly; wish for: They want to leave. She wants a glass of water. See Synonyms at desire.
b. To desire (someone to do something): I want you to clean your room.
2.
a. To request the presence or assistance of: You are wanted by your office.
b. To seek with intent to capture: The fugitive is wanted by the police.
3. To have an inclination toward; like: Say what you want, but be tactful.
4. Informal To be obliged (to do something): You want to be careful on the ice.
5. To be without; lack. See Synonyms at lack.
6. To be in need of; require: "'Your hair wants cutting,' said the Hatter" Lewis Carroll.
v.intr.
1. To have need: wants for nothing.
2. To be destitute or needy.
3. To be disposed; wish: Call me daily if you want.



A needy god... /images/smilies/roll.gif
Calm down. A "want" and a "need" are not the same. And you know that. Therefore, your argument fails. For example, I need to eat in order to live, versus I merely want a steak to eat.


But you know that you can't want what you already have. More importantly, if your god "wants" prayer it means that it's trying to fill a need of some kind, that's what "wants" do.

You clumsily pointed out the biggest flaw of Christianity, it's concept of god is not omnipotent. The Christian god is lacking, you even admitted it.
 

iowahawkeyes1986

HR Legend
Jul 14, 2003
11,849
2
36
"We've looked on the moon and we've remotely looked on Mars. And we've looked through listening all over the sky, but no answer comes. And we've probed other planets in our solar system to find nothing. We've only found life on Earth."

You are wrong again. We haven't begun to search the sky really. As I said earlier, there are 300 billion stars in this galaxy. Thats a lot of stars to search and we haven't even begun to even dent that number. We need a space radio telescope that would be able to hear much more distance signals, and be able to actually send signals to stars we think might have a chance for life). Not to mention, there are billions and billions of galaxies containing billion and billions of stars. The numbers are HEAVILY in favor of life being elsewhere.
This post was edited on 4/3 5:56 PM by iowahawkeyes1986if(GetAdminCookie() != 0) {document.write(' (Revisions[/URL])');}
 

iowahawkeyes1986

HR Legend
Jul 14, 2003
11,849
2
36
"You've watched "Contact" one too many times. Plus, just because bacteria can supposedly exist outside the planet, that's a trillion miles away from developing out there. It's irrelevant.

And "waste of space" implies the universe must have a purpose. A purpose can only be given by the Creator of it all. If you don't believe in a Creator then there is zero purpose to any of it, and there never will be."


Actually the existence of bacteria outside our planet would be a very significant finding. Evolution from bacteria led to us, who says it wouldn't lead to intelligent life elsewhere? And if it were outside our solar system, that would be an even greater find. It's not irrelevant.

With a god, life and reality have no meaning.
 

HoundedHawk

HR Legend
Oct 2, 2001
20,350
3,561
113
Originally posted by PhilHartman:
But you know that you can't want what you already have. More importantly, if your god "wants" prayer it means that it's trying to fill a need of some kind, that's what "wants" do.
You're going to lose this one. A "need" is something somebody has to have. A "want" is something somebody doesn't have to have.

My God has no need whatsoever. ZERO.

Originally posted by PhilHartman:
You clumsily pointed out the biggest flaw of Christianity, it's concept of god is not omnipotent. The Christian god is lacking, you even admitted it.


Don't talk to me about clumsy. Reread your first sentence.

I have never admitted my God is lacking. NEVER.
 

iowahawkeyes1986

HR Legend
Jul 14, 2003
11,849
2
36
"My God has no need whatsoever. ZERO. "

If he has no need, why do we exist? How can god have wants? Does that imply he has basic needs to begin with if he has wants?
This post was edited on 4/3 6:10 PM by iowahawkeyes1986if(GetAdminCookie() != 0) {document.write(' (Revisions[/URL])');}
 

PhilHartman

HR Heisman
Nov 21, 2005
9,957
2
36
Originally posted by HoundedHawk:
Originally posted by PhilHartman:
But you know that you can't want what you already have. More importantly, if your god "wants" prayer it means that it's trying to fill a need of some kind, that's what "wants" do.
You're going to lose this one. A "need" is something somebody has to have. A "want" is something somebody doesn't have to have.

My God has no need whatsoever. ZERO.

Originally posted by PhilHartman:
You clumsily pointed out the biggest flaw of Christianity, it's concept of god is not omnipotent. The Christian god is lacking, you even admitted it.


Don't talk to me about clumsy. Reread your first sentence.

I have never admitted my God is lacking. NEVER.


You're wrong. Your god is one that has a "want", in this case it wants us to pray to it. Anytime you "want" something you inherently show a weakness. The fact that you have to want for something shows the weakness itself, refer to my signature.

Your god is flawed and false, you know it, you admitted it.
 

PhilHartman

HR Heisman
Nov 21, 2005
9,957
2
36
Originally posted by iowahawkeyes1986:
"My God has no need whatsoever. ZERO. "

If he has no need, why do we exist? How can god have wants? Does that imply he has basic needs to begin with if he has wants?


Yes, and because of that logical conflict the Christian version (all Abrahamic versions) of god is inherrently, irrevocably flawed. Right to the core.


This post was edited on 4/3 8:52 PM by PhilHartmanif(GetAdminCookie() != 0) {document.write(' (Revisions[/URL])');}
 

HoundedHawk

HR Legend
Oct 2, 2001
20,350
3,561
113
Originally posted by PhilHartman:
You're wrong. Your god is one that has a "want", in this case it wants us to pray to it. Anytime you "want" something you inherently show a weakness.
No, my God is perfect in everyway. "Wanting" doesn't have to mean "needing." That's a fact. And since you're addressing my God of the Bible, not some fantasy god of your creation, then we don't have to guess. He says He needs nothing.

Wanting is not a weakness. Having desires is not necessarily a weakness at all. And if those desires are pure then it is actually the opposite, that is, a strength. God desires all men to be saved and come to a knowledge of truth. He's a paragon of integrity.

Originally posted by PhilHartman:
The fact that you have to want for something shows the weakness itself, refer to my signature.
Forgive me if I don't consider your signature authoritative in any possible way.

Originally posted by PhilHartman:
Your god is flawed and false, you know it, you admitted it.


And you sir, are a liar. (And you're also boring me.)
 

HoundedHawk

HR Legend
Oct 2, 2001
20,350
3,561
113
Originally posted by PhilHartman:
Yes, and because of that logical conflict the Christian version (all Abrahamic versions) of god is inherrently, irrevocably flawed. Right to the core.

According to your flawed logic, that is. The truth is that there is no logical conflict, there is only ignorance on your part. However, ask the next logical question and I will enlighten you on it.
 

PhilHartman

HR Heisman
Nov 21, 2005
9,957
2
36
So your god just wants prayers and praise from humans, but not because it gets anything from them, but because it just likes em?

This means that your god actually has a preference for prayer and praise over no prayer and no praise.

Which means that your god considers the prayer to be helpful or useful or preferred in some way. Some things are better to your god than others.

Which means that your god is not the ultimate omnipotent power because it doesn't possess and control everything. You god is actually effected differently by different things.

Which means your god is flawed.

You and your version of god are a joke.
 

HoundedHawk

HR Legend
Oct 2, 2001
20,350
3,561
113
Originally posted by PhilHartman:
So your god just wants prayers and praise from humans, but not because it gets anything from them, but because it just likes em?

Read closely. God wants humans to praise Him and submit to Him because that is exactly what the creation should do towards the Creator. It's what logic and justice demands.

Originally posted by PhilHartman:
This means that your god actually has a preference for prayer and praise over no prayer and no praise.

Which means that your god considers the prayer to be helpful or useful or preferred in some way. Some things are better to your god than others.

Which means that your god is not the ultimate omnipotent power because it doesn't possess and control everything.
Phil, is this the best you've got? When push comes to shove, this is it? He gave people free will, and didn't make them mindless automatons? That's the problem? Ridiculous. He certainly could have, but it wouldn't be the right thing to do.

Originally posted by PhilHartman:
You god is actually effected differently by different things.

Which means your god is flawed.

You and your version of god are a joke.

What's a joke is your deductive reasoning. (Let's put the writing skills to the side for now. But read that first sentence.) God is AFFECTED by us if one defines that as Him doing what is right for us (and for justice) when we exercise free will. Again, that is not a flaw, but a wonderful, natural attribute of the perfect God.