Overhelping on defense

[BrewHawk]

If we could stop doing that we'd be a lot better without changing anything else.

Holy cow we let them shoot a lot of open threes, all because of overhelping. Thought we were going to do it again on the last drive when Keegan left their Murray open in the corner (again).

Good win!

 

[SotaHawk87]

They’re a bad shooting team my guess would be you want them taking the three instead of the 8 footer. It has been an Iowa staple though and almost cost us last night.

 

[RocknRollface]

I wouldn't call it over helping. Virginia wasn't forcing help with the drive. They were just passing from the free throw line to guys wide open in the corner.

It was mostly lack of communication off the ball in man and just complete cluelessness in zone that lead to those easy baskets.

This team is not built for zone.

Virginia did some incredibly basic things and Iowa was confused.

Not a good look.

 

[anon_qczsdwtnv6esw]

I noticed the same thing. At one point I saw 4 Hawkeyes guarding one Virginia player with the ball. lol. Im sure the communication will get better as the season progresses.

 

[hexumhawk]

If we could stop doing that we'd be a lot better without changing anything else.

Holy cow we let them shoot a lot of open threes, all because of overhelping. Thought we were going to do it again on the last drive when Keegan left their Murray open in the corner (again).

Good win!

I have been bringing up this point for 11 years now. For whatever reason we help on every driver (even though most of them have zero intention of trying to score) and leave a wing wide open. With as much practice as people have shooting threes in todays CBB, I make that driver make an acrobatic shot on the drive instead of giving someone a set shot 3.

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

This isnt new. It's a problem every year

 

[Buffalo43]

Over helping is rampant across all of college basketball

 

[IllQChawk]

This isnt new. It's a problem every year

This!!!!! Fran loves him some help defense and has since he's been at Iowa,
help defense has cost Iowa multiple games each year.
I've screamed many times at my TV watching Iowa players sagging into the post to double team an opponent and then watching kick out passes to shooters draining unguarded threes.
Watching Iowa players double team opposing players and getting burned by wide open threes is like watching non-athletic Iowa quarterbacks getting sacked by slow footed linemen....both are an Iowa staple....

 

[TheRealHerky]

Here's all the offense you need against Iowa...

Set a guy on the baseline 3 point spot. Run your other four guys around in a circle. Have one guy drive to the basket and kick the ball out to the corner. Bam. 3 points.

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

I noticed the same thing. At one point I saw 4 Hawkeyes guarding one Virginia player with the ball. lol. Im sure the communication will get better as the season progresses.

Yes, it was infuriating. But this is a young team that is plugging players into new positions. They can play zone, but it takes practice. Iowa is better with man defense though. No reason they should have changed any strategy in the Virginia game. My friends and I thought it looked like Kirk's turtle strategy when up by 2 TDs. Keep the damn intensity and keep the damn foot on the gas pedal, and put the younger guys in to play Tenacious D, especially in the second half when up by 14. Drive to the hoop. Foul out the other side. Make the friggin FTs. Stop hoisting desperation 3s and playing ole defense.

 

[Hammer93]

I wouldn't call it over helping. Virginia wasn't forcing help with the drive. They were just passing from the free throw line to guys wide open in the corner.

It was mostly lack of communication off the ball in man and just complete cluelessness in zone that lead to those easy baskets.

This team is not built for zone.

Virginia did some incredibly basic things and Iowa was confused.

Not a good look.

YES!!! Get out of that zone and never go back to it again. It's terrible. Just stick to the man to man and keeping switching up top. That's when Iowa is at their best.

 

[FWIW4922463]

It would be nice to see an Iowa player block out on a rebound once or twice a game as well. But after all this time, it appears that would be asking too much.

Defense and rebounding in basketball are about 12% technique and 88% effort. Overhelping is bad. Not blocking out is bad. If Fran could figure that out, Iowa would be able to maximize its talent. And that should take oh, maybe half a practice because it's almost all about effort.

Blocking out is something I learned in 6th grade, and I've never played a game since that I didn't block out, and I'm still doing it, decades later. The ball goes up, I block out the nearest opponent. Only then do I go for the ball, and I go for it like my life depended on it.

Fran should recruit one or two guys every year who, like Dennis Rodman, believe basketball was invented so they could get every rebound. Those guys never need to score a point because they will battle for the ball every time.

Man, I love rebounding. And I love seeing guys giving it everything they have on D. The rest is gravy.

 

[Bulldogs1974]

I wouldn't call it over helping. Virginia wasn't forcing help with the drive. They were just passing from the free throw line to guys wide open in the corner.

It was mostly lack of communication off the ball in man and just complete cluelessness in zone that lead to those easy baskets.

This team is not built for zone.

Virginia did some incredibly basic things and Iowa was confused.

Not a good look.

this team is built for zone. Long and skinny. Jimmy Boeheim would have this team playing great zone d.
It's the coaching

 

[RocknRollface]

this team is built for zone. Long and skinny. Jimmy Boeheim would have this team playing great zone d.
It's the coaching

Sure he would have them playing it much better, so would anyone else for that matter, but they don't have a big enough body in the middle.

The Murrays block shots but you need a bigger body in the middle to be able to go straight up and absorb contact at the rim IMO.

Boeheim is really the only coach that consistently makes zone effective so I'm not of the opinion that its a viable defense outside of that setting.

Man is easier and almost always more effective.

Iowa needs to figure out how to switch correctly in man. There were way to many times that two guys went with one player on pin down and baseline type screens.

That front line is interchangeable and should be auto switching everything without even thinking about it.

When you can switch everything, and Iowa can this year, it negates most of a teams set plays and forces them to play one on one.

 

[EpenesaEpenesa]

this team is built for zone. Long and skinny. Jimmy Boeheim would have this team playing great zone d.
It's the coaching

It is and has been most years Fran has been here with Iowa's length and lack of quickness. It takes discipline and being fundamentally sound on that end and let's just say those details have been lacking on that end of the floor since Fran's been here.

 

[KcTo]

I wouldn't call it over helping. Virginia wasn't forcing help with the drive. They were just passing from the free throw line to guys wide open in the corner.

It was mostly lack of communication off the ball in man and just complete cluelessness in zone that lead to those easy baskets.

This team is not built for zone.

Virginia did some incredibly basic things and Iowa was confused.

Not a good look.

I agree, the zone allowed them to dial in there shot and then the confidence to shoot more.

Why does,Fran play that damnable zone anyway?

 

[topherchris20]

I agree, the zone allowed them to dial in there shot and then the confidence to shoot more.

Why does,Fran play that damnable zone anyway?

Where shot?

 

[Bulldogs1974]

im not saying they should play zone. But syracuse rarely had big bodies, just long skinny ones.
It comes down to sound fundamentals. Hell UNI plays better defense under jacobson than iowa and it's not because they have athletes.

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

It would be nice to see an Iowa player block out on a rebound once or twice a game as well. But after all this time, it appears that would be asking too much.

Defense and rebounding in basketball are about 12% technique and 88% effort. Overhelping is bad. Not blocking out is bad. If Fran could figure that out, Iowa would be able to maximize its talent. And that should take oh, maybe half a practice because it's almost all about effort.

Blocking out is something I learned in 6th grade, and I've never played a game since that I didn't block out, and I'm still doing it, decades later. The ball goes up, I block out the nearest opponent. Only then do I go for the ball, and I go for it like my life depended on it.

Fran should recruit one or two guys every year who, like Dennis Rodman, believe basketball was invented so they could get every rebound. Those guys never need to score a point because they will battle for the ball every time.

Man, I love rebounding. And I love seeing guys giving it everything they have on D. The rest is gravy.

I was shocked to see that somehow Iowa got one more rebound total than Virginia, because it certainly seemed like we were losing every Rebound and loose ball in the second half.

 

[HawkLogic]

this team is built for zone. Long and skinny. Jimmy Boeheim would have this team playing great zone d.
It's the coaching

We've seen enough opponents destroy Fran's zone over the years with 3pt shooting + it is always more difficult to get defensive rebounds out of a zone vs man, so Zone should be part time minority defense.

The only real need to play zone is beause of lineups Fran plays. PMAC at the "3" and JBO at the "2" mean more zone because PMAC is too slow at 6'9 to guard opposing guards/wings and they dribble around pretty easily. JBO can't stop any opposing guard from penetrating and everyone can shoot over top of him.

The answer is play more man defense. Perkins at the "2" would help and he got 9minutes. Kris is better defender/rebounder than PMAC at the "3" position and Kris got 17 minutes ot PMAC 24 min..

With a 20 pt lead, Fran didn't go defensive and went with his starters (JBO/PMAC)) more than normal. PMAC and JBO both had pretty good offensive games, but Bennett brought in his shooter Murray and made Iowa pay for wide open looks that were like a game of HORSE at practice.

 

[DavidGraeberBullSheetJobs]

We've seen enough opponents destroy Fran's zone over the years with 3pt shooting + it is always more difficult to get defensive rebounds out of a zone vs man, so Zone should be part time minority defense.

The only real need to play zone is beause of lineups Fran plays. PMAC at the "3" and JBO at the "2" mean more zone because PMAC is too slow at 6'9 to guard opposing guards/wings and they dribble around pretty easily. JBO can't stop any opposing guard from penetrating and everyone can shoot over top of him.

The answer is play more man defense. Perkins at the "2" would help and he got 9minutes. Kris is better defender/rebounder than PMAC at the "3" position and Kris got 17 minutes ot PMAC 24 min..

With a 20 pt lead, Fran didn't go defensive and went with his starters (JBO/PMAC)) more than normal. PMAC and JBO both had pretty good offensive games, but Bennett brought in his shooter Murray and made Iowa pay for wide open looks that were like a game of HORSE at practice.

I couldn’t agree more. He needed to get the better athletes out there and be patient on offense, And keep the defensive pressure on, including some full court press. Bohannon was hot for a while, but then started to get discombobulated and distracted when he was getting blown up on defense repeatedly, so he should’ve been taken out of the game and ulis and Perkins put in.

 

[RocknRollface]

I actually didn't think Jbo was horrible on D. He got blown by a few times but their guards really didn't do that much besides Clark hitting some uncharacteristic 3s when they were daring him to shoot.

It was more the front line getting confused on what they were supposed to do on screens and in the zone.

Virginia ran a lot of baseline off ball screen stuff and the hawk defenders were repeatedly both staying with one guy.

Had they just figured that out the game probably never gets close.