Overreaction Time: We need a coaching shake up

[js8793]

It's incredibly frustrating to me that I can tell you before every season what the Hawkeyes are going to struggle with: generating offense and finishing the attacks they do take. This has been the case for a decade. Where are the adjustments from this staff? Where is the style evolution to deal with modern defensive wrestling?

I think Tom is one of the best coaches in the game. But I also think we can point to some clear deficiencies as well. We need a guy from outside the Iowa family, with a different style, to supplement the perspectives we currently have. My proposal:

Terry shifts to the HWC after this year and continues his role as the Spencer whisperer. We should also be recruiting high level senior level athletes. The top recruits want to win Olympic titles. We need the HWC to be a place where that not only seems possible, but it's the expectation. That's what the NLWC is.
Terry is replaced by a young middleweight assistant from outside the program. Ideally, a good scrambler and/or leg rider.
Morningstar remains on as he's purportedly a great recruiter. I am not impressed with his hands on development.
I am neutral on Telford. He has done a nice job with the heavyweights, but would we be better off with an upperweight assistant who was a 184/197 and can provide a more diverse wrestling perspective?

Yes, this post is sparked by an underwhelming performance, but it is way more about the 10 year trend with this team. Underperformance in March and boring wrestling. I want national titles. I want national champions. Cael built a juggernaut. The standard is higher. It's keep up or find someone who can. It's time for adjustments.

 

[johnstownsteel]

Note to self...stay away from this thread.

 

[SPOONER]

There are some good thoughts in there but note we had the best team in the country both 2 and 3 years ago. So among other things, you may want to review the definition of trend. Made another run last year but wasn’t meant to be. This is a bit of a rebuilding year with all the guys who finished last season. Plus ISU has raised their game with solid to good talent up and down the lineup. They are a tough out in a dual format. And…it’s early December.

Again, not that you don’t make some good points. And I appreciate that you prefaced by saying “overreaction.”

 

[AFHawk86]

I’ve said before that I’d love to see the Hawks add Burroughs to the staff. Not sure there’s interest from either side but that’s this fan’s perspective.

 

[js8793]

There are some good thoughts in there but note we had the best team in the country both 2 and 3 years ago. So among other things, you may want to review the definition of trend. Made another run last year but wasn’t meant to be. This is a bit of a rebuilding year with all the guys who finished last season. Plus ISU has raised their game with solid to good talent up and down the lineup. They are a tough out in a dual format. And…it’s early December.

Again, not that you don’t make some good points. And I appreciate that you prefaced by saying “overreaction.”

Which is why I don't think Brands should be cut loose. My main point is that we know exactly what most of the team is going to struggle with before the season starts. That shouldn't happen. It points to the staff not being good enough at developing those positions and situations. And that's why I want a more diverse staff. If you can't teach guys how to scramble, bring in somebody who can. Know your weaknesses and address them. Evolve.

But also, even the year we did win, we underperformed. PSU came back and won title rematches and left us with a very sour taste in our mouth on Saturday night. And ultimate the long term health (aka recruiting) depends on producing champions.

 

[GoHawks1996]

Which is why I don't think Brands should be cut loose. My main point is that we know exactly what most of the team is going to struggle with before the season starts. That shouldn't happen. It points to the staff not being good enough at developing those positions and situations. And that's why I want a more diverse staff. If you can't teach guys how to scramble, bring in somebody who can. Know your weaknesses and address them. Evolve.

But also, even the year we did win, we underperformed. PSU came back and won title rematches and left us with a very sour taste in our mouth on Saturday night. And ultimate the long term health (aka recruiting) depends on producing champions.

That year is an asterisk to anybody that was behind the scenes. We limped into the finals the year we won. The year before was the healthiest we've been in forever, and we rolled everybody.

 

[js8793]

That year is an asterisk to anybody that was behind the scenes. We limped into the finals the year we won. The year before was the healthiest we've been in forever, and we rolled everybody.

we seem to "limp to the finals" most years. that's part of the problem too.

 

[Gonzo Bloor]

All ISU cares about is hanging with Iowa and, if the stars are aligned, beating Iowa in a dual. That's their season.

Not putting much into today. It's early December, they wrestled about as well as they could've hoped, we rolled out SL and RW for the first time, had the predictable low-octane early season efforts by a few guys, and we won per usual. March is what matters.

 

[hoythawk]

I’ve said before that I’d love to see the Hawks add Burroughs to the staff. Not sure there’s interest from either side but that’s this fan’s perspective.

It doesn't surprise me that you think bringing Burroughs in would make our middle weights elite blast doublers. It comes down to recruiting. Spencer Lee isn't going to coach guys to be great top wrestlers. Jordan can't teach guys his blast doubles. Jayden can't teach scrambling and cradles. You are either good at it or not by the time you get to campus. The elite recruits show up on campus with their skill set. Focus on recruiting top 10 p4p kids instead of over reacting like the the penn state troll that started the thread.

 

[GoHawks1996]

we seem to "limp to the finals" most years. that's part of the problem too.

Our new S&C coach took over last year and this was his first full season working with the guys, I see an improvement in our overall condition and the composition of Cass, Warner, and Murin (even though he was already jacked). I'm optimistic that over the next couple years he can make a difference in the overall health and strength of the team. He seems to know his stuff.

Problem is that all the good S&C coaches just see wrestling as a stepping stone to get into a good football program.

 

[AFHawk86]

It doesn't surprise me that you think bringing Burroughs in would make our middle weights elite blast doublers. It comes down to recruiting. Spencer Lee isn't going to coach guys to be great top wrestlers. Jordan can't teach guys his blast doubles. Jayden can't teach scrambling and cradles. You are either good at it or not by the time you get to campus. The elite recruits show up on campus with their skill set. Focus on recruiting top 10 p4p kids instead of over reacting like the the penn state troll that started the thread.

I understand your points and their validity, but I still think he would help with recruiting, motivation, and development.

 

[ichawks]

I’m a little tired of brute force pushing style that we’ve exhibited for years only to watch our guys get taken down with seconds left on the clock. Where’s the angles? Do these guys not watch watch Lee in the wrestling room? I was shocked on how well ISU wrestled and how good those freshman are.

 

[Iowabandwagon]

It's incredibly frustrating to me that I can tell you before every season what the Hawkeyes are going to struggle with: generating offense and finishing the attacks they do take. This has been the case for a decade. Where are the adjustments from this staff? Where is the style evolution to deal with modern defensive wrestling?

I think Tom is one of the best coaches in the game. But I also think we can point to some clear deficiencies as well. We need a guy from outside the Iowa family, with a different style, to supplement the perspectives we currently have. My proposal:

Terry shifts to the HWC after this year and continues his role as the Spencer whisperer. We should also be recruiting high level senior level athletes. The top recruits want to win Olympic titles. We need the HWC to be a place where that not only seems possible, but it's the expectation. That's what the NLWC is.
Terry is replaced by a young middleweight assistant from outside the program. Ideally, a good scrambler and/or leg rider.
Morningstar remains on as he's purportedly a great recruiter. I am not impressed with his hands on development.
I am neutral on Telford. He has done a nice job with the heavyweights, but would we be better off with an upperweight assistant who was a 184/197 and can provide a more diverse wrestling perspective?

Yes, this post is sparked by an underwhelming performance, but it is way more about the 10 year trend with this team. Underperformance in March and boring wrestling. I want national titles. I want national champions. Cael built a juggernaut. The standard is higher. It's keep up or find someone who can. It's time for adjustments.

I couldn’t like this more. I had a meltdown after last year’s ship about how we’re being out coached and out wrestled. It’s true though. ISU got more out of the talent they have today than Iowa…by a landslide. Let’s hand-fight, push and wait for a perfect opportunity to score when our opponent makes a mistake. Meanwhile, Iowa wrestlers are the ones being stalked and waited on to be flat footed trying to get to a tie or caught coming in or countered on the 1 shot we take because it’s 0-0 or 1-1 and we have to make something happen. Terrible. What happened to PK’s ankle pick and quick go behinds from high school? I hate to say it, but wrestling marinelli is probably the worst thing to happen to him. I love Alex but that was his style. Pk used to not look like that. He was much quicker and slicker than what I’ve been seeing and this is what, year 3 in the room? Not good. I agree, bring someone in who can switch it up. For God’s sake, everyone go out there like siebrecht and throw caution to the wind in the meantime.

 

[hoythawk]

I understand your points and their validity, but I still think he would help with recruiting, motivation, and development.

He will be a huge get wherever he lands for recruiting. I don't think development or motivation is lacking and can't say he would be any good at that until he proves it. You aren't going to win titles by relying on development anyways.

 

[js8793]

He will be a huge get wherever he lands for recruiting. I don't think development or motivation is lacking and can't say he would be any good at that until he proves it. You aren't going to win titles by relying on development anyways.

i don't think he'll coach in college

 

[93hawkeye]

TnT were great college wrestlers, obviously, but I'm gonna say what put them over the top was freak toughness and stubbornness. They can work wonders with similar guys like Cory Clark and Derek St. John. I know it's an over-generalization, but if the freak toughness isn't within a guy, and the matchup boils down to similar technique/conditioning/talent/whatever else, there is no built-in advantage.

 

[NLhawk62]

It doesn't surprise me that you think bringing Burroughs in would make our middle weights elite blast doublers. It comes down to recruiting. Spencer Lee isn't going to coach guys to be great top wrestlers. Jordan can't teach guys his blast doubles. Jayden can't teach scrambling and cradles. You are either good at it or not by the time you get to campus. The elite recruits show up on campus with their skill set. Focus on recruiting top 10 p4p kids instead of over reacting like the the penn state troll that started the thread.

To your point, our best recruit since Spencer Lee looks like a R12 guy now. And this is his 3rd year in the program.

 

[hoythawk]

To your point, our best recruit since Spencer Lee looks like a R12 guy now. And this is his 3rd year in the program.

That's why recruiting is so important and NIL will be huge to offset Carls ability to ignore 9.9 the last 10 years. He always has 15-20 elite recruits so his misses aren't noticed. Classes like next years will help absorb misses.

 

[Hawkfan019]

That's why recruiting is so important and NIL will be huge to offset Carls ability to ignore 9.9 the last 10 years. He always has 15-20 elite recruits so his misses aren't noticed. Classes like next years will help absorb misses.

Recruits like PK wind up as multi time champs at PSU. Time to put up or shut up

 

[LaxHawk174]

J'Den Cox would be a good candidate in my opinion - although I'm sure he's more focused on competing than coaching currently. He could be a guy to look at in a few years. I know the tires have been kicked a few times with Cox about training with the HWC. Plus with Gabe Arnold there will be the family connection. I'm not advocating anybody get fired, but Cox seems like a potential future possibility - with a prior good relationship already established (I'm assuming). I think he'd be a great fit. Even if just for a couple years before moving on to a bigger/different position.

 

[rcamp67]

“We peak too early and struggle in March. We need a change.”

Also

“We didn’t wrestle to peak form in early December. We need a change.”

 

[Muscles1989]

S

“We peak too early and struggle in March. We need a change.”

Also

“We didn’t wrestle to peak form in early December. We need a change.”

Shoot we can have it both ways?! Jk no matter what ppl will have an opinion either way

 

[slushhead]

That's why recruiting is so important and NIL will be huge to offset Carls ability to ignore 9.9 the last 10 years. He always has 15-20 elite recruits so his misses aren't noticed. Classes like next years will help absorb misses.

Those numbers sound high. Who are the 15-20 elite recruits on the roster this year?

2023-24 Wrestling Roster - Penn State Athletics

The official 2023-24 Wrestling Roster for the Penn State Nittany Lions

gopsusports.com

 

[rcamp67]

Those numbers sound high. Who are the 15-20 elite recruits on the roster this year?

2023-24 Wrestling Roster - Penn State Athletics

The official 2023-24 Wrestling Roster for the Penn State Nittany Lions

gopsusports.com

Off the top of my head I counted 14 elite recruits. I suppose a PSU fan could have a different definition of elite recruit than every other program in D1.

 

[js8793]

Those numbers sound high. Who are the 15-20 elite recruits on the roster this year?

2023-24 Wrestling Roster - Penn State Athletics

The official 2023-24 Wrestling Roster for the Penn State Nittany Lions

gopsusports.com

Bartlett
RBY
Brooks
Dean (not out of high school, but definitely when you guys brought him in)
Facundo
Haines
Howard
Kerk
Starocci
SVN

Joe Lee and Seth Nevills are borderline, but both were top 25 in their class. Depends on where you draw the line for "elite."

not 15-20, but 10-12 is pretty insane. hats off to cael and co. for sure.

 

[slushhead]

Bartlett
RBY
Brooks
Dean (not out of high school, but definitely when you guys brought him in)
Facundo
Haines
Howard
Kerk
Starocci
SVN

Joe Lee and Seth Nevills are borderline, but both were top 25 in their class. Depends on where you draw the line for "elite."

not 15-20, but 10-12 is pretty insane. hats off to cael and co. for sure.

Yeah, elite is subjective, though I imagine we could agree top10 pfp would be a starting point.

If we take the 10 guys you suggested (i.e., keeping Lee & Nevills on the bubble), that’s pretty darn close to 9.9.