Pac 12 eliminating Divisions - will the big ten follow?

SDHawkDoc

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Comparing overall records in all crossover games between B1G east v west isn't particularly useful. That rutgers and maryland have been inept isn't that relevant when trying to sort out who are the best of the bunch.
A more relevant comparison would be the crossover records of the top teams. Just in a quick look that I had time for now, the 3 teams from the west that have made the title game since 2014 are well below .500 against the 4 teams from the east that have made it (15-23). All of the teams from the west (Iowa, nw and wisky) are individually sub .500 against their 4 counterparts from the east. FWIW, Iowa has the best overall record against the top end of the east at 5-6. yay.
My argument is that in this case, the strength differential at the top between the two divisions far outweighs other factors when setting up a system to determine the best teams to get into a title game without the possibility of every team playing every other team during the regular season. If the goal is to get the two best teams in the conference into the title game, it probably does make sense to scrap the current division structure.
 
Feb 25, 2008
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Comparing overall records in all crossover games between B1G east v west isn't particularly useful. That rutgers and maryland have been inept isn't that relevant when trying to sort out who are the best of the bunch.
A more relevant comparison would be the crossover records of the top teams. Just in a quick look that I had time for now, the 3 teams from the west that have made the title game since 2014 are well below .500 against the 4 teams from the east that have made it (15-23). All of the teams from the west (Iowa, nw and wisky) are individually sub .500 against their 4 counterparts from the east. FWIW, Iowa has the best overall record against the top end of the east at 5-6. yay.
My argument is that in this case, the strength differential at the top between the two divisions far outweighs other factors when setting up a system to determine the best teams to get into a title game without the possibility of every team playing every other team during the regular season. If the goal is to get the two best teams in the conference into the title game, it probably does make sense to scrap the current division structure.
So what you're saying is it should be Iowa vs one of OSU, Mich, MSU or PSU every year for the BTCG? :D
 

Big Hawk D-Port

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So what you're saying is since TV ratings is what its all about then Iowa should never play in the BTCG again?.............




Yeah I'll pass on that option.
No what I’m saying is that the purpose of college football is to produce TV programming that men watch so that they can sell commercials for razors, cars and insurance. That is why the sport is awash in money.
 
Feb 25, 2008
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No what I’m saying is that the purpose of college football is to produce TV programming that men watch so that they can sell commercials for razors, cars and insurance. That is why the sport is awash in money.
That's a rather materialistic take on it.....

It's okay though. I get it. You've been jaded by decades of corporate greed.
 
Feb 25, 2008
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Here's what the BTCG matchups would've been if there were no divisions, going back to 1990:

2021 - Michigan vs Ohio State
2020 - Ohio State vs Indiana
2019 - Ohio State vs Wisconsin (no change)
2018 - Ohio State vs Michigan
2017 - Ohio State vs Wisconsin (no change)
2016 - Penn State vs Ohio State
2015 - Michigan State vs Iowa (no change)
2014 - Ohio State vs Wisconsin (no change)
2013 - Michigan State vs Ohio State (no change)
2012 - Nebraska vs Michigan (assuming we're still counting PSU and OSU as ineligible that year)
2011 - Wisconsin vs Michigan State (no change)
Non-BTCG era****
2010 - Michigan State vs Wisconsin
2009 - Ohio State vs Iowa
2008 - Penn State vs Ohio State
2007 - Ohio State vs Michigan
2006 - Ohio State vs Michigan
2005 - Penn State vs Ohio State
2004 - Michigan vs Iowa
2003 - Michigan vs Ohio State
2002 - Ohio State vs Iowa
2001 - Illinois vs Michigan
2000 - Purdue vs Northwestern
1999 - Wisconsin vs Michigan State
1998 - Ohio State vs Michigan
1997 - Michigan vs Penn State
1996 - Ohio State vs Northwestern
1995 - Northwestern vs Ohio State
1994 - Penn State vs Ohio State
1993 - Wisconsin vs Ohio State (tied in reg. season)
1992 - Michigan vs Ohio State (tied in reg. season)
1991 - Michigan vs Iowa
1990 - Iowa vs Michigan

Bold- winner of H2H, if played in regular season


So, no, we don't need to get on the bandwagon with the Pac 12, Big 12 and MWC and scrap divisions. Deal with it. :D
 
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Big Hawk D-Port

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That's a rather materialistic take on it.....

It's okay though. I get it. You've been jaded by decades of corporate greed.
The money from TV dwarfs any other source. It’s not corporate greed, it’s greed by the Universities that has us in this position. They thought they could rake in this money forever without addressing some pretty obvious problems.

If competitive balance is something that they want to strive for (doubtful in many cases) there has to be a governing body that can enforce rules and revenue sharing. Or we can just have a 10 team league and a bunch of teams like Iowa that will serve as cannon fodder. Make no mistake that is what ESPN wants, instead of the Iowa vs Purdue games they get stuck with now.
 

nbanflfactory

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My point is that I want to see an Iowa B1G schedule in which in any given year, the chance of playing OSU, MI and MSU are equal to the chance of playing NW, IL and PU. Those are the games I want to see played. Some of the B1G regular seasons Iowa has had since 2014 have been absolutely horrible, and some of the ones coming up are even worse now that Rutgers is a regular. Time to start from scratch...
Some here care about wins, not so much quality.

Yet they probably bag on some sec scheduling :)
 

nbanflfactory

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Btw, I mentioned this earlier, but what would you all think of a split between the FBS division, with the top 70 or 74 teams forming a P5 (12-team conf.) or P6 (14-team conf.) respectively as the "upper" or "major" division and the remaining teams rounding out the lower half of the FBS, allowing them to have their own CFP and make it more accessible to FCS programs ready and willing to move up to the next level?

Regardless of how likely (or not) this is, how receptive would you be to such a change IF it happened?
4 20 teams conf with 2 divisions each
 

nbanflfactory

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No divisions, everyone has 3 protected rivalry games that are played every year.

Iowa - Wisconsin, Minnesota, Nebraska
Wisconsin- Iowa, Minnesota, Nebraska
Minnesota - Iowa, Wisconsin, Michigan
Nebraska - Iowa, Northwestern, Wisconsin
Illinois - Northwestern, Indiana, Purdue
Northwestern - Illinois, Nebraska, Michigan State
Michigan- OSU, MSU, Minnesota
MSU - Michigan, Northwestern, Penn State
OSU - Michigan, Penn State, Rutgers
Indiana - Purdue, Illinois, Rutgers
Purdue - Indiana, Illinois, Maryland
Penn State - OSU, MSU, Maryland
Maryland - Penn State, Rutgers, Purdue
Rutgers - Maryland, OSU, Indiana

Special rule that Iowa never plays Purdue or Northwestern ever again.
OSU run? In ru? Mi mn? Nw MSU? In il? md pu?

Lots of fake rivalries lol
 

nbanflfactory

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Here's what the BTCG matchups would've been if there were no divisions, going back to 1990:

2021 - Michigan vs Ohio State
2020 - Ohio State vs Indiana
2019 - Ohio State vs Wisconsin (no change)
2018 - Ohio State vs Michigan
2017 - Ohio State vs Wisconsin (no change)
2016 - Penn State vs Ohio State
2015 - Michigan State vs Iowa (no change)
2014 - Ohio State vs Wisconsin (no change)
2013 - Michigan State vs Ohio State (no change)
2012 - Nebraska vs Michigan (assuming we're still counting PSU and OSU as ineligible that year)
2011 - Wisconsin vs Michigan State (no change)
Non-BTCG era****
2010 - Michigan State vs Wisconsin
2009 - Ohio State vs Iowa
2008 - Penn State vs Ohio State
2007 - Ohio State vs Michigan
2006 - Ohio State vs Michigan
2005 - Penn State vs Ohio State
2004 - Michigan vs Iowa
2003 - Michigan vs Ohio State
2002 - Ohio State vs Iowa
2001 - Illinois vs Michigan
2000 - Purdue vs Northwestern
1999 - Wisconsin vs Michigan State
1998 - Ohio State vs Michigan
1997 - Michigan vs Penn State
1996 - Ohio State vs Northwestern
1995 - Northwestern vs Ohio State
1994 - Penn State vs Ohio State
1993 - Wisconsin vs Ohio State (tied in reg. season)
1992 - Michigan vs Ohio State (tied in reg. season)
1991 - Michigan vs Iowa
1990 - Iowa vs Michigan

Bold- winner of H2H, if played in regular season


So, no, we don't need to get on the bandwagon with the Pac 12, Big 12 and MWC and scrap divisions. Deal with it. :D
You don't know this because you don't know what schedules would have been.
 

Big Hawk D-Port

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Wiscy has won 6 of last 10 vs mi
The point is that Michigan has all kind of advantages over a school like Wisconsin. Yes during Wisconsin’s biggest run of success and a low point for Michigan, Wisconsin has a slight advantage. The overall series is 52-17.

Also, Wisconsin is the BEST positioned of the second tier schools in terms of enrollment, alumni support, academic reputation, population base, etc. The gulf is even wider when you compare Michigan vs Purdue, Iowa or Nebraska.
 
Feb 25, 2008
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The point is that Michigan has all kind of advantages over a school like Wisconsin. Yes during Wisconsin’s biggest run of success and a low point for Michigan, Wisconsin has a slight advantage. The overall series is 52-17.

Also, Wisconsin is the BEST positioned of the second tier schools in terms of enrollment, alumni support, academic reputation, population base, etc. The gulf is even wider when you compare Michigan vs Purdue, Iowa or Nebraska.
Iowa > all those other schools you mentioned

Deal with it.
 
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rrdd2021

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The B1G Dream: TWO Ohio St./Michigan games every year!
Jesus. Michigan wins its 1st B1G title since 2004 - LET THAT SINK IN - and right away they're going to dominate with OSU. They had several close games that they could have lost last year and I still think that OSU's PUTRID defense had more to do with their success than Michigan's overall ability - and that cost the OSU defensive staff their jobs (minus Larry Johnson).

Look back at the last decade and both PSU and especially MSU gave OSU more fits than Michigan. Granted, OSU isn't going anywhere. Just don't see Michigan keeping pace
 

nbanflfactory

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The point is that Michigan has all kind of advantages over a school like Wisconsin. Yes during Wisconsin’s biggest run of success and a low point for Michigan, Wisconsin has a slight advantage. The overall series is 52-17.

Also, Wisconsin is the BEST positioned of the second tier schools in terms of enrollment, alumni support, academic reputation, population base, etc. The gulf is even wider when you compare Michigan vs Purdue, Iowa or Nebraska.
Mi had a great season but that haven't been anything special for quite some time....
 

rrdd2021

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No, fok nebbie. And mn mi is straight up laughable.....
Not so sure. I truly believe from top to bottom the B1G East and West are pretty much even. It's the top 3 or 4 teams in East that stand out and I've been saying for a while that they need to separate OSU, PSU, MSU and Michigan. They dwarf the top of the West. The East's bottom feeders, Indiana, Rutgers, and Maryland suck.

In contrast, the 7 teams in the West are far more evenly balanced (maybe not Illinois at times). You mentioned Nebbie and Minny but they should be decent this year. A top 10 to 15 team in the West gives you a decent shot at the West championship - not the case in the East
 
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nbanflfactory

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Not so sure. I truly believe from top to bottom the B1G East and West are pretty much even. It's the top 3 or 4 teams in East that stand out and I've been saying for a while that they need to separate OSU, PSU, MSU and Michigan. They dwarf the top of the West. The East's bottom feeders, Indiana, Rutgers, and Maryland suck.

In contrast, the 7 teams in the West are far more evenly balanced (maybe not Illinois at times). You mentioned Nebbie and Minyn but they should be decent this year. A top 10 to 15 team in the West gives you a decent shot at the West championship - not the case in the East
the east has 4 teams that can be great any year, the west definitely doesn't. In ru and MD sure suck but I'm not sure il and neb are much better.
 

MeetTheFerentz

HR Heisman
Nov 20, 2006
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Some here care about wins, not so much quality.

Yet they probably bag on some sec scheduling :)
Any Iowa fans that want to avoid playing OSU or MI too much need to lobby for Iowa to make a move to the MAC. That way they can get all kinds of wins.

Those interested in Iowa staying in the B1G should want the team playing a legit B1G schedule every year. I want Iowa playing and beating the best the B1G has to offer; not playing an ACC Coastal-type schedule and hoping for a one-time neutral field shot at Clemson.
 

MeetTheFerentz

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Here's what the BTCG matchups would've been if there were no divisions, going back to 1990:

2021 - Michigan vs Ohio State
2020 - Ohio State vs Indiana
2019 - Ohio State vs Wisconsin (no change)
2018 - Ohio State vs Michigan
2017 - Ohio State vs Wisconsin (no change)
2016 - Penn State vs Ohio State
2015 - Michigan State vs Iowa (no change)
2014 - Ohio State vs Wisconsin (no change)
2013 - Michigan State vs Ohio State (no change)
2012 - Nebraska vs Michigan (assuming we're still counting PSU and OSU as ineligible that year)
2011 - Wisconsin vs Michigan State (no change)
Non-BTCG era****
2010 - Michigan State vs Wisconsin
2009 - Ohio State vs Iowa
2008 - Penn State vs Ohio State
2007 - Ohio State vs Michigan
2006 - Ohio State vs Michigan
2005 - Penn State vs Ohio State
2004 - Michigan vs Iowa
2003 - Michigan vs Ohio State
2002 - Ohio State vs Iowa
2001 - Illinois vs Michigan
2000 - Purdue vs Northwestern
1999 - Wisconsin vs Michigan State
1998 - Ohio State vs Michigan
1997 - Michigan vs Penn State
1996 - Ohio State vs Northwestern
1995 - Northwestern vs Ohio State
1994 - Penn State vs Ohio State
1993 - Wisconsin vs Ohio State (tied in reg. season)
1992 - Michigan vs Ohio State (tied in reg. season)
1991 - Michigan vs Iowa
1990 - Iowa vs Michigan

Bold- winner of H2H, if played in regular season


So, no, we don't need to get on the bandwagon with the Pac 12, Big 12 and MWC and scrap divisions. Deal with it. :D
That was a lot of work you did to come up with a nonsensical conclusion...
 
Feb 25, 2008
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Any Iowa fans that want to avoid playing OSU or MI too much need to lobby for Iowa to make a move to the MAC. That way they can get all kinds of wins.

Those interested in Iowa staying in the B1G should want the team playing a legit B1G schedule every year. I want Iowa playing and beating the best the B1G has to offer; not playing an ACC Coastal-type schedule and hoping for a one-time neutral field shot at Clemson.
How about Ohio State and Michigan go to the MAC instead. They don't need anymore wins over us. :)
 

PlutoDroid

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Aug 16, 2015
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Are you saying you want to make it harder for Iowa to win a national championship?...............



Puau.gif
I'm not saying what I want personally. I'm responding to the theory of best team earning it, and that the best team would win it if they were that good. Let's be honest here, the playoffs will expand. To win a National Title you are gonna have to beat four or five great teams in a row in the future. Say Iowa beats Nebraska, Ohio State, USC, Georgia, and Clemson to win the whole thing. That would be a lifelong bragging right. Now say you beat Iowa State, Rutgers, Oregon State, Vanderbilt, and North Carolina State to win something like the NIT equivalent. Trophy case material?

Edit: I know putting great and Nebraska, and USC is so 90's and 2000's.🤣
 
Feb 25, 2008
51,565
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I'm not saying what I want personally. I'm responding to the theory of best team earning it, and that the best team would win it if they were that good. Let's be honest here, the playoffs will expand. To win a National Title you are gonna have to beat four or five great teams in a row in the future. Say Iowa beats Nebraska, Ohio State, USC, Georgia, and Clemson to win the whole thing. That would be a lifelong bragging right. Now say you beat Iowa State, Rutgers, Oregon State, Vanderbilt, and North Carolina State to win something like the NIT equivalent. Trophy case material?

Edit: I know putting great and Nebraska, and USC is so 90's and 2000's.🤣
If beating an 0-12 Vanderbilt, and nobody else, guarantees Iowa a legitimate national championship, then I will take it and this is what I'll leave for anyone that has a problem with it........


68747470733a2f2f73332e616d617a6f6e6177732e636f6d2f776174747061642d6d656469612d736572766963652f53746f7279496d6167652f476239385a3151504b4765326c413d3d2d3732343234333836382e313539386236626132383166636262653637303838343235363136362e676966
 

nbanflfactory

HR Heisman
Aug 22, 2021
6,498
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I'm not saying what I want personally. I'm responding to the theory of best team earning it, and that the best team would win it if they were that good. Let's be honest here, the playoffs will expand. To win a National Title you are gonna have to beat four or five great teams in a row in the future. Say Iowa beats Nebraska, Ohio State, USC, Georgia, and Clemson to win the whole thing. That would be a lifelong bragging right. Now say you beat Iowa State, Rutgers, Oregon State, Vanderbilt, and North Carolina State to win something like the NIT equivalent. Trophy case material?

Edit: I know putting great and Nebraska, and USC is so 90's and 2000's.🤣
Just missing Texas and fsu ;)
 

blhawk

HR Heisman
Oct 30, 2001
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Objectively Iowa was probably the 5th best team in the conference last year. Michigan, Ohio state, Michigan state, and Wisconsin (had to play Michigan in regular season) were all better. But Iowa went to the championship game due to winning the west. That’s why teams in the East (the big money teams) want to scrap divisions.
I'm sure Indiana, Rutgers and MD who have to play the big money teams every year want to scrap divisions too. If they don't get rid of them they at least need to make them more balanced. Both would be bad for Kirk's legacy which has really benefitted from being in the west
 

Frosty7130

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Oct 11, 2012
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South Dakota
Yeah, divisions are for the birds (not Hawks!). If we see another unbalanced year in 2022, B1G should go join the rest of civilization and have a top-two Champ Game.
The juggernauts that are the Pac-12, MWC, and Big 12?

The SEC and Big Ten are far and away the top two conferences. We should be comparing ourselves to them, not the rest of CFB that's getting left in the dust.