Patrick McCaffery

[Mohawkeye]

Before BJ got to Iowa or after? .....course Andre transferred in from Nebraska... the word "elite" is being tossed around like someone actually knew who was and who wasn't an elite PG....oh there you go...you can always get your rankings.

I know this much.....no one knew Ronnie Lester or thought of him as an "elite" PG before he got to Iowa...Lute grabbed him right underneath Kentucky nose...he "out" recruited them.

In todays environment with high school kids playing a lot of summer AAU ball...its not a secret anymore who has talent (and if it is it wont be for very long).

I'm not sure Ronnie wasn't so highly thought of by the end of his senior year. Recruiting was different then, but my understanding is that Lute locked him up before the big dogs offered, but they were interested.

I would throw in Dean Oliver as an "elite" (hate that term) point guard. Iowa had a pretty good tradition of great points in the 1980s and 1990s.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

Elite PG...

Puts pressure on the opposing teams in the full or half court game with his/her quickness, ability to distribute, breaking down defenses, penetrating, dribbling with both hands, ready to slash to the hoop, under control...but always working to get his teammates easy looks and baskets. On defense: disrupting, forcing the opposing PG to do what he is uncomfortable doing whether it be shooting, driving, right/left, etc. A leader who leads by example. Outside shooting ability is nice, but secondary to what he does lifting the other team members to be better and score easy baskets. Gives credit to his teammates during times of success, willingly takes responsibility for losses. Supports the coach and is the coach's rep on the court. He is elite if he is THE player that other teams have to plan for.

I think of Ronnie Lester, John Stockton, Magic, types...there are many other examples on different levels of play...

You aren't going to find teams with two players of the quality of Lester, Magic and Stockton very often, even in the NBA. You might not find two of those players in all of college BB in some years. If you changed elite PG to quality PG, I would agree that it is very important to have two quality PGs on a team, with another player who can swing to PG if needed with injuries, off-court issues, or other problems. I agree with your overall description of an elite PG, but since they are rare, a coach needs to find some players who have most of those skills and fits what is needed given the other players on the team. Some teams are successful without an elite PG because they have multiple ball handlers on the court at one time.

And, Gesell is pretty damn good PG

 

[freemanbrenner]

Horner you could make a case for as being an elite pg. He does have iowas assists record I think.

When iowa got marble and white I don't think people thought both would make first team all big ten and get drafted. I don't know if they were "elite" players but they were very,very good.

 

[DanL53]

You aren't going to find teams with two players of the quality of Lester, Magic and Stockton very often, even in the NBA. You might not find two of those players in all of college BB in some years. If you changed elite PG to quality PG, I would agree that it is very important to have two quality PGs on a team, with another player who can swing to PG if needed with injuries, off-court issues, or other problems. I agree with your overall description of an elite PG, but since they are rare, a coach needs to find some players who have most of those skills and fits what is needed given the other players on the team. Some teams are successful without an elite PG because they have multiple ball handlers on the court at one time.

And, Gesell is pretty damn good PG

Wish I could hit like a few more times for this. The value of guys off the ball, especially in a motion offense, that can set up at the top of the key and pass or shoot, or drive, can't be overstated. One advantage I can see when we have a 6'6" point guard in Williams, whether it be as a sub or the whole measure of a starter, is he can post up in the motion offense and guys like Fleming that have good passing skills (Hutton and Moss aren't bad passers either.) can get the ball inside to him.

With stretch fours and other bigs that can come out and hit an open three, this will cause all kinds of problems for teams with shorter guards.

 

[hawkeyedude#1]

Much higher ceiling than Aaron White, so I am pleased.

Couldn't agree more. White was incredibly overrated as he couldn't shoot, dribble, nor rebound. Incredible how he ended up in the record books like he did and eventually drafted. I guess that proves the lack of knowledge and insight GMs, scouts, etc have at the next level.

 

[goodbyebobby]

Horner you could make a case for as being an elite pg. He does have iowas assists record I think.

When iowa got marble and white I don't think people thought both would make first team all big ten and get drafted. I don't know if they were "elite" players but they were very,very good.

You absolutely CANNOT say Horner was an elite PG, assist record or not. Dude was an average Iowa kid who was an OK player, at best.

 

[buttermypancakes]

Couldn't agree more. White was incredibly overrated as he couldn't shoot, dribble, nor rebound. Incredible how he ended up in the record books like he did and eventually drafted. I guess that proves the lack of knowledge and insight GMs, scouts, etc have at the next level.

I knew you couldn't let that one go. I'm surprised you lasted as long as you did. He was 28% career 3 point shooter and a below average ball handler so despite your best efforts you were actually right on 2 out of 3.

 

[freemanbrenner]

2x third team all big ten is not average. That says you can play. Setting the schools assists record is not average. Horner was a very, very good player

You absolutely CANNOT say Horner was an elite PG, assist record or not. Dude was an average Iowa kid who was an OK player, at best.

 

[StormHawk42]

Couldn't agree more. White was incredibly overrated as he couldn't shoot, dribble, nor rebound. Incredible how he ended up in the record books like he did and eventually drafted. I guess that proves the lack of knowledge and insight GMs, scouts, etc have at the next level.

Gold right there Jerry

 

[freemanbrenner]

According to the Big Ten coaches, he was one of the five best players in the conference last year.

 

[hawkeyedude#1]

I knew you couldn't let that one go. I'm surprised you lasted as long as you did. He was 28% career 3 point shooter and a below average ball handler so despite your best efforts you were actually right on 2 out of 3.

Gotta agree it took me awhile to respond. My apologies. I'll try better next time to be a bit more prompt. Nothing like reading and responding to incompetence.

 

[SSG T]

According to the Big Ten coaches, he was one of the five best players in the conference last year.

Wasn't he coaching WDM Valley last year?

 

[RocknRollface]

The whole elite pg thing is silly when talking about future recruits who haven't played yet.

A, you don't know until they play.

B, Whats the cutoff line for elite? Its a vague standard at best.

Montee Morris is probably the best player in the state if its not Uthoff, and one of the better points in the country and I wouldn't classify him as elite. (Anyone who is truly elite will be one and done.) And he was not evaluated to be anywhere near this good coming out of high school. Cyclones will of course disagree, but the point is you don't know until they play.

We need to get the best players we can at all positions, period.

Pgs aren't as important as they used to be, there are very few true points guards left in the Chris Paul, Stockton, Nash mold where they are looking to be set up guys first and foremost and almost none in the Jason Kidd, Mark Jackson mold where you are almost exclusively a set up man. Those players are very few and far between anymore.

You need guys who can get by their man, attack the basket and pass when they have to when the defense rotates. Fran hasn't had many of these guys but I think he got a couple in Moss and Williams this year.

 

[freemanbrenner]

Yep. Than the most recent "elite one and done PGs " are guys like wall, Bledsoe, knight, kyrie, dangelo russell. I would say john wall out of those guys is the only one that really looks to pass first before shoot. Kyrie is listed as a "pg" but he looks to shoot way more than pass.

The whole elite pg thing is silly when talking about future recruits who haven't played yet.

A, you don't know until they play.

B, Whats the cutoff line for elite? Its a vague standard at best.

Montee Morris is probably the best player in the state if its not Uthoff, and one of the better points in the country and I wouldn't classify him as elite. (Anyone who is truly elite will be one and done.) And he was not evaluated to be anywhere near this good coming out of high school. Cyclones will of course disagree, but the point is you don't know until they play.

We need to get the best players we can at all positions, period.

Pgs aren't as important as they used to be, there are very few true points guards left in the Chris Paul, Stockton, Nash mold where they are looking to be set up guys first and foremost and almost none in the Jason Kidd, Mark Jackson mold where you are almost exclusively a set up man. Those players are very few and far between anymore.

You need guys who can get by their man, attack the basket and pass when they have to when the defense rotates. Fran hasn't had many of these guys but I think he got a couple in Moss and Williams this year.

 

[revkev73]

OK, Iowa needs above average PG play to get to the next level...we have had average production at best...

Elite would be better...but let's take little baby steps...

Iowa has consistently lacked players who can break down defenses off the dribble...this, we need...

 

[trail888]

Just watched the 1980 final four on YouTube.I want another Ronnie Lester!! It would be nice if we could get a quality of, strange how it alludes us.

 

[Kurt Warner]

Just watched the 1980 final four on YouTube.I want another Ronnie Lester!! It would be nice if we could get a quality of, strange how it alludes us.

I did too awhile back against Louisville, man lester was good, and it looked like he was VERY far from 100%. Too bad he went down iowa might have been champs that year. If it wasn't for dr. Dunkinstein think they would have won fairly easy, that guy was totally on fire in that game.

 

[skydog0784]

I did too awhile back against Louisville, man lester was good, and it looked like he was VERY far from 100%. Too bad he went down iowa might have been champs that year. If it wasn't for dr. Dunkinstein think they would have won fairly easy, that guy was totally on fire in that game.

This is correct as I too have seen that You Tube video against Louisville. As good as Ronnie appeared, he wasn't anywhere near his pre-injury form at that point. It's unfortunate there aren't any video (that at least I've seen) that shows Ronnie in his prime.

Words don't do justice to how lightening quick he was; his outstanding handles going left or right equally well; his ability to finish or hit the floater or pull up depending on what the defense gave him; ability to shoot from the outside; excellent defender; and perhaps his best attribute - an outstanding ball distributor once he blew by his defender and other defenders collapsed on help defense.

Seeing Ronnie play in person is one of the advantages of being in my mid-50s. He was that good. Just ask Magic

 

[DanL53]

This is correct as I too have seen that You Tube video against Louisville. As good as Ronnie appeared, he wasn't anywhere near his pre-injury form at that point. It's unfortunate there aren't any video (that at least I've seen) that shows Ronnie in his prime.

Words don't do justice to how lightening quick he was; his outstanding handles going left or right equally well; his ability to finish or hit the floater or pull up depending on what the defense gave him; ability to shoot from the outside; excellent defender; and perhaps his best attribute - an outstanding ball distributor once he blew by his defender and other defenders collapsed on help defense.

Seeing Ronnie play in person is one of the advantages of being in my mid-50s. He was that good. Just ask Magic

Excellent description. Ronnie could blow by his guy and the thing that always amazed me was the split second around the free throw line where he'd keep the dribble alive and assess his next move. Pass, shoot, drive, it was impossible to stop everything he could do. That moment that he took, the way he was always in control, that's the part I haven't seen anyone do better, ever.

 

[Hawks2405]

I can think of one team with two elite PGs. Iowa. Gesell and Clemmons = Tango and Cash. Let's bust some heads.

Go Hawks!

 

[L. Wade Childress]

Bohannon played some big time aau ball. I'm concerned about his lack of offers. UNI offered early but took a different pg before him.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

Excellent description. Ronnie could blow by his guy and the thing that always amazed me was the split second around the free throw line where he'd keep the dribble alive and assess his next move. Pass, shoot, drive, it was impossible to stop everything he could do. That moment that he took, the way he was always in control, that's the part I haven't seen anyone do better, ever.

There was no shot clock when Lester played. If the Hawks had the lead with less than 5 or 6 minutes left, the other team was helpless. Best way to describe Ronnie Lester was to say that he was ALWAYS under control, despite being the fastest player on the court.

Lester made all of his teammates better players, and that is the definition of a great PG. It didn't hurt that Ronnie had teammates who understood their roles and let him run the show. I believe that Kenny Arnold is one of the most underrated players to ever play for Iowa.

 

[hawk-i bob]

I'm not sure Ronnie wasn't so highly thought of by the end of his senior year. Recruiting was different then, but my understanding is that Lute locked him up before the big dogs offered, but they were interested.

I would throw in Dean Oliver as an "elite" (hate that term) point guard. Iowa had a pretty good tradition of great points in the 1980s and 1990s.

...the story goes Lute was scouting another player in a game that Lester was playing in ..at which time Lester caught his eye..don't remember if it was that game or another one...but a Kentucky assistant asked Lute what he thought of the Lester kid...Lute said something to the affect...small & wasn't the best shooter..

...the first time I saw Lester was in an exhibition game against the Airliner...he didn't start...when he came into the game it was obvious early on...we had something special...

yes back in the middle 70's...you didn't have the scouting reports as we have today...sometimes all you would see was a small mention in the paper when a kid would commit...not many people knew that Lute had just recruited an elite PG...

 

[rainydayhawk]

Bohannon played some big time aau ball. I'm concerned about his lack of offers. UNI offered early but took a different pg before him.

I don't see "took a different PG before him" being too important unless Bohannon tried to commit to UNI and was turned away, or unless there's some evidence UNI cooled on him.

 

[ping72]

Has Patrick expressed an interest in playing for his dad? Some families want that and some don't.

 

[CanadaHawk]

Has Patrick expressed an interest in playing for his dad? Some families want that and some don't.

Old news. Only reason he hasn't committed already is his mom wanted him to wait until he's a year older.

 

[MTHawkeyes43]

Great to see that he's developing into a top prospect - and committed to the Hawkeyes.

Question though - he's 14, going into 8th grade with a spring birthday. Was he held back? He's likely a full year older than many of his grade peers.

Iowa has a compulsory education requirement age of 6-17. Montana, the state where I currently reside, has a compulsory education requirement of 7-16; therefore, it is not unheard of to see a 14 year old in 7th grade having never been held back due to academic difficulties. I am not proclaiming it is common place, just not unheard of.

 

[icu81222]

Old news. Only reason he hasn't committed already is his mom wanted him to wait until he's a year older.

If I were him, I would tell dad I'm going to play for you but I want to experience the recruiting process. Then get out and see how other programs are doing it. Help dad and his staff with ideas AND get the unique experience that very few get to go through. but that's just me.

theiowahawk will be here in 3......2........1 to ask 100 questions of "WHY??" and come up with some nonsense.....

 

[DanL53]

If I were him, I would tell dad I'm going to play for you but I want to experience the recruiting process. Then get out and see how other programs are doing it. Help dad and his staff with ideas AND get the unique experience that very few get to go through. but that's just me.

theiowahawk will be here in 3......2........1 to ask 100 questions of "WHY??" and come up with some nonsense.....

If I were Patrick? "Hey Dad! I was reading this here story about how Pete Maravich's Dad, Press Maravich, bought Pete a car to make sure he stayed home and played for him....."

 

[hooper56]

Bohannon is so good, he has scholarship offers from who? Bo so far isn't interested in this Bohannon (a Wisky pipeline family). He is exactly what Iowa needs, as a walk on.

Now you are starting to embarrass yourself.

 

[oakhawk]

If I was Patrick, I would completely ignore anybody on a message board.

 

[5StarHawk]

I prefer to let Fran and his staff pick the "elite" point guard. Fans are never satisfied. Gessel was the elite point guard when he was recruited. Everyone was pumped. Would Paige have been the elite point guard? He was top shelf as a recruit, but many have knocked him for not getting his team to the championship game. If you want an elite pg, I think you have to become a Kentucky fan. I prefer to live with reality and cheer for the Hawks whomever their pg is.

 

[icu81222]

If I was Patrick, I would completely ignore anybody on a message board.

That is certainly the overstatement of the year.

Wait, are you saying you believe recruits and players are making decisions based off of message board ranting and posts from complete strangers?