PD3 canceled at NJRTC

[IAChief32]

I watched this evolve on Twitter last night. In PD3's douchebaggie way, he stated that nobody wanted to watch women's or Greco...that the market is not the same as Men's Freestyle. Welp, hilarity ensued, people were offended, white knights knightted...all in all, interesting to watch.

I was struck by a few things:

--IMO, women's wrestling (and Greco) is like anything else...fun to watch depending on the wrestler but your avg wrestling fan has no connection with them. Most connections start in high school and follow in to college. For some of these guys, especially the elite ones, we have been watching them since the early years of high school or when they pop up on the recruiting radar.

--For myself, I only got into women's wrestling because of the ladies at the HWC. I will continue to root for them and have an interest in their outcomes. But that's just because they were here and we supported them. I have yet to really get into Greco.

--Flo was taking some heat as well for not offering a woman's match on Jul 25. Turns out, they have. The women turned it down because the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. The number getting thrown about was a $1000 (plus travel Im guessing) for one match.

--Brings me to my next point: I only see senior level women wrestle a few times a year. If they don't take the opportunities like this, why should I take interest unless they win a world team spot because I'll root for whomever.

--Also had high level guys talking about forming a union. This kind of shocked me given the situation in wrestling today. College programs are getting canceled. Outside of our bubble, there isn't a lot of people tripping over themselves to pay wrestlers. There is Flo, and maybe some independent ones. I would love to live in a world where wrestling was in high demand like in the state of Iowa. But its just not like that. Right now, most wrestlers are either supported by a few rich angel investors or by fans like us.

--I watched Mia Palumbo wrestle on the rooftop. She's a little killer but what's next? People keep on saying that D-1 Women's wrestling needs to become a thing and I agree. However, in the days of Covid, we are sweating bullets about men's college wrestling.

--Many are suggesting that there is a market and are shaming Flo into covering it. Here is what I suggest: Start a business and put their own money behind it to compete with Flo.

Yea...PD3 came off like a DBag but he wasn't necessarily wrong.

 

[HawkeyeMass]

View embedded media

I watched this evolve on Twitter last night. In PD3's douchebaggie way, he stated that nobody wanted to watch women's or Greco...that the market is not the same as Men's Freestyle. Welp, hilarity ensued, people were offended, white knights knightted...all in all, interesting to watch.

I was struck by a few things:

--IMO, women's wrestling (and Greco) is like anything else...fun to watch depending on the wrestler but your avg wrestling fan has no connection with them. Most connections start in high school and follow in to college. For some of these guys, especially the elite ones, we have been watching them since the early years of high school or when they pop up on the recruiting radar.

--For myself, I only got into women's wrestling because of the ladies at the HWC. I will continue to root for them and have an interest in their outcomes. But that's just because they were here and we supported them. I have yet to really get into Greco.

--Flo was taking some heat as well for not offering a woman's match on Jul 25. Turns out, they have. The women turned it down because the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. The number getting thrown about was a $1000 (plus travel Im guessing) for one match.

--Brings me to my next point: I only see senior level women wrestle a few times a year. If they don't take the opportunities like this, why should I take interest unless they win a world team spot because I'll root for whomever.

--Also had high level guys talking about forming a union. This kind of shocked me given the situation in wrestling today. College programs are getting canceled. Outside of our bubble, there isn't a lot of people tripping over themselves to pay wrestlers. There is Flo, and maybe some independent ones. I would love to live in a world where wrestling was in high demand like in the state of Iowa. But its just not like that. Right now, most wrestlers are either support my a few rich angel investors or by fans like us.

Yea...PD3 came off like a DBag but he wasn't necessarily wrong.

Wrestling has now joined the cancel culture and it is a shame. I enjoy watching the woman compete but I'm not going to pay to watch the woman compete. Let me also note, I feel the same way about greco and any freestyle (M or W) where US competitors are not competing. I'm not ponying up to watch other continental championships or national tournaments. I think it goes right along with what you are saying Chief. Outside of world competitions with US competitors, there is no attachment. If Iowa and others had D1 programs it would be a very different story. The college level creates that attachment.

 

[IAChief32]

Wrestling has now joined the cancel culture and it is a shame. I enjoy watching the woman compete but I'm not going to pay to watch the woman compete. Let me also note, I feel the same way about greco and any freestyle (M or W) where US competitors are not competing. I'm not ponying up to watch other continental championships or national tournaments. I think it goes right along with what you are saying Chief. Outside of world competitions with US competitors, there is no attachment. If Iowa and others had D1 programs it would be a very different story. The college level creates that attachment.

In his own way, perhaps unintentionally, Downey created more talk about this than any previous that I can remember.

He touched the third rail. Ironic because in the last few weeks, he has been accusing DT of juicing but I reckon this was just a step too far for the NJRTC

 

[The Vak]

Guys, we've watched Downey's career. We had him in Iowa City. The historical record would suggest that this more of a "straw that broke the camel's back" situation. I'm betting NJRTC wasn't super happy about the constant DT steroid allegations, either (even though I believe them).

 

[Chips28]

Guy has no chill, but he wasn’t wrong here.

 

[SPOONER]

PD3 is and has always been a giant douche.

That said, I don’t care much for women’s wrestling or Greco either. I respect the participants and wish them nothing but the best but it doesn’t interest me as a spectator. I also respect anyone who enjoys it.

 

[HawkFan1986]

He should start his MMA career now. He’s the perfect heel.

 

[GableEdge]

MMA is great for him. Can’t wait to watch him get knocked out.

 

[js8793]

View embedded media

I watched this evolve on Twitter last night. In PD3's douchebaggie way, he stated that nobody wanted to watch women's or Greco...that the market is not the same as Men's Freestyle. Welp, hilarity ensued, people were offended, white knights knightted...all in all, interesting to watch.

I was struck by a few things:

--IMO, women's wrestling (and Greco) is like anything else...fun to watch depending on the wrestler but your avg wrestling fan has no connection with them. Most connections start in high school and follow in to college. For some of these guys, especially the elite ones, we have been watching them since the early years of high school or when they pop up on the recruiting radar.

--For myself, I only got into women's wrestling because of the ladies at the HWC. I will continue to root for them and have an interest in their outcomes. But that's just because they were here and we supported them. I have yet to really get into Greco.

--Flo was taking some heat as well for not offering a woman's match on Jul 25. Turns out, they have. The women turned it down because the juice wasn't worth the squeeze. The number getting thrown about was a $1000 (plus travel Im guessing) for one match.

--Brings me to my next point: I only see senior level women wrestle a few times a year. If they don't take the opportunities like this, why should I take interest unless they win a world team spot because I'll root for whomever.

--Also had high level guys talking about forming a union. This kind of shocked me given the situation in wrestling today. College programs are getting canceled. Outside of our bubble, there isn't a lot of people tripping over themselves to pay wrestlers. There is Flo, and maybe some independent ones. I would love to live in a world where wrestling was in high demand like in the state of Iowa. But its just not like that. Right now, most wrestlers are either support my a few rich angel investors or by fans like us.

--I watched Mia Palumbo wrestle on the rooftop. She's a little killer but what's next? People keep on saying that D-1 Women's wrestling needs to become a thing and I agree. However, in the days of Covid, we are sweating bullets about men's college wrestling.

--Many are suggesting that there is a market and are shaming Flo into covering it. Here is what I suggest: Start a business and put their own money behind it to compete with Flo.

Yea...PD3 came off like a DBag but he wasn't necessarily wrong.

Some good points I agree with. You're spot on about people not connecting with the women because they don't have a connection with them, and that their connection with the men is formed when they are covered extensively in high school and college. This is actually the major point that most of the women are making. Right now, a lot of people resort to pointing out that the women aren't as popular and that's why they don't get covered, but them not being covered is actually a major reason they aren't as popular. I also didn't watch a ton of women's wrestling until the HWC brought in their team, but now I watch it all the time because I've learned who they all are and that makes it 100x more compelling.

The wrestling gets better every year too. People forget how new it is. Every year the talent pool grows and the quality of wrestling improves. We have some total killers right now hitting super high level technique with high levels of athleticism.

The point is that women's wrestling needs some investment to get more fan buy in. It sounds like Flo tried to get a women's match, but couldn't get one done, so I don't think the critique holds up in this instance. But I'd love to see them do more coverage on the senior women athletes. Kayla Miracle was the first girl to qualify for state in Indiana (single class, 16 person bracket, in the toughest semi-state, so no joke at all). That would be a good basis for a short feature. Hildebrandt was pretty close to doing it a couple years earlier too. There's material out there if they wanted to invest.

 

[Cali_Nittany]

Courtesy of @tikk10 . This had to be shared over here:

 

[bman546]

.....The point is that women's wrestling needs some investment to get more fan buy in. It sounds like Flo tried to get a women's match, but couldn't get one done, so I don't think the critique holds up in this instance. But I'd love to see them do more coverage on the senior women athletes. Kayla Miracle was the first girl to qualify for state in Indiana (single class, 16 person bracket, in the toughest semi-state, so no joke at all). That would be a good basis for a short feature. Hildebrandt was pretty close to doing it a couple years earlier too. There's material out there if they wanted to invest.

Macey Kilty, as a freshmen at 106 lbs. made the Boys high school state finals in Wisconsin. If you watch ESPN she wrestled Zach Anglin in the semis, -- that was a match for the ages, not just because of the uniqueness of the competitors, but because it was a barn burner of a match with 15,000 fans fixated on mat 3 (the DIII mat) all going bonkers. Kilty graduated from high school in 2019 (after her freshmen year she only wrestled freestyle).
Age level World Championships: :
2016 Cadets Bronze
2018 Cadet Gold
2018 Jr. Silver
2019 Jr. Silver
2019 U23 Silver

Prior to completing high school she placed 3rd at the Senior US Open in April of 2019.
Within 7 months of graduating from high school:
She is on the Senior World Cup Team, she wins a U23 silver, and places 3rd in the US Nationals in Ft. Worth in December 2019,

As js8793 stated the material is out there if they want to invest.

 

[js8793]

Macey Kilty, as a freshmen at 106 lbs. made the Boys high school state finals in Wisconsin. If you watch ESPN she wrestled Zach Anglin in the semis, -- that was a match for the ages, not just because of the uniqueness of the competitors, but because it was a barn burner of a match with 15,000 fans fixated on mat 3 (the DIII mat) all going bonkers. Kilty graduated from high school in 2019 (after her freshmen year she only wrestled freestyle).
Age level World Championships: :
2016 Cadets Bronze
2018 Cadet Gold
2018 Jr. Silver
2019 Jr. Silver
2019 U23 Silver

Prior to completing high school she placed 3rd at the Senior US Open in April of 2019.
Within 7 months of graduating from high school:
She is on the Senior World Cup Team, she wins a U23 silver, and places 3rd in the US Nationals in Ft. Worth in December 2019,

As js8793 stated the material is out there if they want to invest.

Kilty is nasty. I remember she tore up fargo one year. I think she bombed someone with a standing fireman's for 5.

 

[Boomhawk52]

He is wrong.. and a giant douche turd fart butthole

 

[CurtisLoew40]

Didn't see everything he said. Just commenting on him saying no one wants to watch women's or Greco and he's right lol. If that's all it was then jesus this country is going crazy.
Women's wrestling will never be a d1 sport. Hell the men can barely get enough support for it let alone women. Not happening and shouldn't anytime in this decade or two.

 

[js8793]

Didn't see everything he said. Just commenting on him saying no one wants to watch women's or Greco and he's right lol. If that's all it was then jesus this country is going crazy.
Women's wrestling will never be a d1 sport. Hell the men can barely get enough support for it let alone women. Not happening and shouldn't anytime in this decade or two.

You must be fun at parties.

 

[wrstlrev]

I am not ready to pay for women's wrestling, but I happily watch matches. Interest level is greatly impacted by familiarity.

 

[IAChief32]

Its being reported that Nomad got the hook from Flo. Something about trying to get pics of some female wrestlers in bikinis and paying them via Venmo to talk to him or something like that.



Downey will not be wrestling DT and could be in some serious shit regarding trying to get pics from underage girls.

 

[bman546]

At least Dake vs Chamizo is still on the card.

 

[lookleft goright]

View embedded media

Its being reported that Nomad got the hook from Flo. Something about trying to get pics of some female wrestlers in bikinis and paying them via Venmo to talk to him or something like that.

View embedded media

Downey will not be wrestling DT and could be in some serious shit regarding trying to get pics from underage girls.

So I am guessing that from now on when we ask for "pics" we will need to specify that PD3 is not included.

 

[GG121AND2]

Count me among those who enjoy women's wrestling. I agree that it needs to build its own following, but to say that "no one watches it" is not correct. If they can ever get to girls wrestling being sanctioned in 40+ states that will help build the audience.

Trivia question: who was the youngest competitor at the 2016 wrestling Olympic trials?

 

[buf87]

Count me among those who enjoy women's wrestling. I agree that it needs to build its own following, but to say that "no one watches it" is not correct. If they can ever get to girls wrestling being sanctioned in 40+ states that will help build the audience.

Trivia question: who was the youngest competitor at the 2016 wrestling Olympic trials?

Kilty? (Not sure on spelling)

 

[GG121AND2]

Kilty? (Not sure on spelling)

Nope, but you have the gender correct.

 

[jrod65]

Trivia question: who was the youngest competitor at the 2016 wrestling Olympic trials?

Rachel Watters (yes, I cheated)

https://www.desmoinesregister.com/s...tters-bows-out-olympic-trials-semis/82840200/

 

[The Vak]

Remember that it's Mineo posting things.

 

[el dub]

So, nomad and/or pd3 getting heat for girls in bikinis action or are they the same person? Lol

 

[SansSouci]

I don’t watch anything but the finals in Greco if an American is involved. I won’t watch any female wrestling unless it’s between some men’s wrestling I’m watching. I’m not searching it out. Updates are good enough. I also don’t watch female MMA. If someone else enjoys it, that’s great. I don’t, BFD.

 

[WitnessGreatness]

I'm tired of people saying women's wrestling is the "fastest growing sport." You could double women's wrestling and still be far far behind mens wrestling. Show me the numbers. It's just a way to spin the viewer numbers

 

[BELDEEN]

Here is good summation of the Twitter dustup

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

I don’t watch anything but the finals in Greco if an American is involved. I won’t watch any female wrestling unless it’s between some men’s wrestling I’m watching. I’m not searching it out. Updates are good enough. I also don’t watch female MMA. If someone else enjoys it, that’s great. I don’t, BFD.

the point is when it’s put in front of you, you don’t change the channel. Now let’s say you get adeline grey vs (I can’t even think of who her best competitor is, but pretend it’s the female equivalent of Snyder vs Sadulaev in an exhibition)... and they put on a show... could that affect your next decision? What if the next 20 women’s matches put in front of you were awesome and you were really entertained. Would you seek out the 21st? Maybe maybe not, but lots of “Girl Dads” out there may see more opportunities flourish for their state champ in the making.

 

[PrairieHawk24]

Everyone has their own opinion, but I thoroughly enjoyed having the ladies of the HWC and rooting them on. I’ll be honest, I didn’t know many names of WFS wrestlers before Alli, Forrest, McKayla, Kayla, & Lauren. It was sad to see them all go, but I’m excited to welcome more women into the HWC when the right time comes.

 

[el dub]

Everyone has their own opinion, but I thoroughly enjoyed having the ladies of the HWC and rooting them on. I’ll be honest, I didn’t know many names of WFS wrestlers before Alli, Forrest, McKayla, Kayla, & Lauren. It was sad to see them all go, but I’m excited to welcome more women into the HWC when the right time comes.

I’m guessing the staff were faced with issues they never had to deal with before, like the potential affect of coed extracurricular activities on morale of team...

 

[The Vak]

Mineo made his Twitter private, so....

 

[rassling]

the point is when it’s put in front of you, you don’t change the channel. Now let’s say you get adeline grey vs (I can’t even think of who her best competitor is, but pretend it’s the female equivalent of Snyder vs Sadulaev in an exhibition)... and they put on a show... could that affect your next decision? What if the next 20 women’s matches put in front of you were awesome and you were really entertained. Would you seek out the 21st? Maybe maybe not, but lots of “Girl Dads” out there may see more opportunities flourish for their state champ in the making.

I get the exposure part but a lot of what I'm reading on twitter is that these women are looking for the same amount of pay. I get the idea of that and it sounds all good and great but Flo is a business and they base their pay off of data they collect on what sells the most. Women's wrestling is great for the growth of wrestling but it's not Flo's job to over pay for a product that doesn't have the viewership to support it. There is a reason the WNBA players don't make the same money as the NBA.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

I get the exposure part but a lot of what I'm reading on twitter is that these women are looking for the same amount of pay. I get the idea of that and it sounds all good and great but Flo is a business and they base their pay off of data they collect on what sells the most. Women's wrestling is great for the growth of wrestling but it's not Flo's job to over pay for a product that doesn't have the viewership to support it. There is a reason the WNBA players don't make the same money as the NBA.

While you’re right, nuance matters.
No one is saying Jordan shouldn’t be the highest paid on a card. But when a guy like pd3 (who lets be real is only on the world team because literally everyone else ducked DT...) with far far less accolades than a woman is getting paid more we can dig deeper.

downey was helped immensely by flo... they did documentaries and hype and brought him on etc.

For a one time AA?

if they are then paying him more because “he brings in clicks”, the only reason he is popular is because they made him popular. Why not invest in better wrestlers?

flo can do a better job of helping the women earn more since they do in fact make or break popularity in some people for whom wrestling skill isn’t the reason.

 

[rassling]

While you’re right, nuance matters.
No one is saying Jordan shouldn’t be the highest paid on a card. But when a guy like pd3 (who lets be real is only on the world team because literally everyone else ducked DT...) with far far less accolades than a woman is getting paid more we can dig deeper.

downey was helped immensely by flo... they did documentaries and hype and brought him on etc.

For a one time AA?

if they are then paying him more because “he brings in clicks”, the only reason he is popular is because they made him popular. Why not invest in better wrestlers?

flo can do a better job of helping the women earn more since they do in fact make or break popularity in some people for whom wrestling skill isn’t the reason.

Downey was only going to make that because flo wanted Taylor and they wanted to have some heat that would get people excited and talking. There is literally nobody in the US for Taylor to wrestle that will get people excited. Would the match have been good? No, it would have been a bloodbath but people wanted to see it because Downey is a d-bag and a good heel. If that match would have happened Downey would have been worth ever cent they paid him.

 

[js8793]

While you’re right, nuance matters.
No one is saying Jordan shouldn’t be the highest paid on a card. But when a guy like pd3 (who lets be real is only on the world team because literally everyone else ducked DT...) with far far less accolades than a woman is getting paid more we can dig deeper.

downey was helped immensely by flo... they did documentaries and hype and brought him on etc.

For a one time AA?

if they are then paying him more because “he brings in clicks”, the only reason he is popular is because they made him popular. Why not invest in better wrestlers?

flo can do a better job of helping the women earn more since they do in fact make or break popularity in some people for whom wrestling skill isn’t the reason.

There's a reinforcing cycle that drives Flo's coverage. Their coverage of an athlete makes them more popular, but Flo is also driven by clicks, so they mostly cover athletes that already have a base of popularity from the start and then their coverage just increases that popularity.

Downey built his following by being audacious on twitter (specifically when he kept saying he would beat Gabe Dean). Flo started covering that twitter talk that season. More people started following the Downey saga, and so flo started covering it even more. And it snowballs from there.

Look at a similar effect with Desanto. He always was who he is, but after he beat Spencer, people started to notice. Then flo did a bunch of coverage, and even more people started following, which then led to even more coverage from flo. I think they've said he gets more page views/social media likes than any other wrestler at this point.

Most of the american wrestling world focuses on college and high level high school events. That's where these initial bases of popularity are built. The women aren't a part of that so they don't have a chance to build that support, which then means they get less coverage on flo because they don't draw the page views.

But if Flo wanted to invest in more coverage, the material is there. It just takes some time investment. Honestly, this is the perfect time to start. We won't really have actual wrestling to talk about for a while, so why not start building up athlete profiles, so fans are fired up about these big matches when they start happening again?

 

[natchrlman]

I’d sooner watch a womens FS match than Greco men or women.... the limited times I’ve had the opportunity I was really impressed with the quality of the matches...would absolutely support the growth of women’s wrestling!

 

[McIlraveysMullet]

Maybe I missed where the women were asking for the same pay, because I got the impression that they just wanted more than a laughable amount. The thing for me is that yes the women are not as big of a draw and couldn't be the highlight match of the event, but Flo is missing an oppurtunity with these events. With a rather small investment by them to add a couple womens matches to an existing event(no extra overhead besides paying the women) they could be the driving force behind growing the womens sport and also profiting off of it by attracting millions of more women to Flo that want to be part of the sport.

 

[Pakman770]

I definitely started tuning in more to women in HWC, and was sending information about their matches to my friends. Really hated to see them leave. Still have their signed poster in the cave, and will be watching how their careers unfold after the pandemic.

 

[rassling]

Maybe I missed where the women were asking for the same pay, because I got the impression that they just wanted more than a laughable amount. The thing for me is that yes the women are not as big of a draw and couldn't be the highlight match of the event, but Flo is missing an oppurtunity with these events. With a rather small investment by them to add a couple womens matches to an existing event(no extra overhead besides paying the women) they could be the driving force behind growing the womens sport and also profiting off of it by attracting millions of more women to Flo that want to be part of the sport.

Whats considered a laughable amount? The women got offered the same amount Downey took when he wrestled at WNO in carver. If they want more coverage for women's freestyle they have to make concessions too.