Pete Rose

[hawksense]

How many Pete Roses are there in today's game? Cheaters, if that helps.

Coaches and assistants get chances over and over again after being outed as dirty or bending rules and continue to bank all kinds of loot - AND PRAISE - after their misgivings.

Pete Rose was shamed after his baseball career. I blame him for a lot of his problems, but his exile is something I wish would happen to any coach/asst who crossed the line, even a little bit. Let them know that any transgression ends their career.

And take back the money.

 

[HawkIDrummer]

How many Pete Roses are there in today's game? Cheaters, if that helps.

Coaches and assistants get chances over and over again after being outed as dirty or bending rules and continue to bank all kinds of loot - AND PRAISE - after their misgivings.

Pete Rose was shamed after his baseball career. I blame him for a lot of his problems, but his exile is something I wish would happen to any coach/asst who crossed the line, even a little bit. Let them know that any transgression ends their career.

And take back the money.

apples and oranges. Rose isn't exactly the best reference point for your question.

 

[TheTruthTheWholeTruth]

We need to define “cross the line.” Are we talking about coaches poking around the edges a little bit, minor violations, or straight up cheating (paying players for example). I could certainly get behind kicking coaches to the curb, including steep monetary penalties, if there’s conclusive evidence they were involved in something major/serious.

 

[hawksense]

I know. I arrived at it whilst thinking about some other things.

I just think that the baseball model of being above cheating could be applied, even modestly, to college basketball.

It was along those lines.

 

[Eternal Return]

But Rose was gambling. I don't think any of the cheating from coaches involves gambling--at least, that's not what the FBI was investigating as far as I know.

 

[hawksense]

We need to define “cross the line.” Are we talking about coaches poking around the edges a little bit, minor violations, or straight up cheating (paying players for example). I could certainly get behind kicking coaches to the curb, including steep monetary penalties, if there’s conclusive evidence they were involved in something major/serious.

Even poking around the edges. Call your local NCAA sheriff if you need clarity. That way, even "minor violations" couldn't happen or be excused.

Too many people profit to the tune of millions of dollars, get discovered and penalized and perhaps dismissed, only to find a new way into the game. There is no shame. And, if you're Bruce Pearl (just an example) people laud you as a great guy, which he may just be, but he's a cheat. A good guy who's a cheat. And, a millionaire, built on the shoulders of cheating.

 

[hawksense]

It makes me think that all of the best coaches are, perhaps, the best cheaters and nothing more.

 

[HawkIDrummer]

But Rose was gambling. I don't think any of the cheating from coaches involves gambling--at least, that's not what the FBI was investigating as far as I know.

like i said...apples and oranges...or apples and baseballs. Very different situations.

 

[hawksense]

Like I said, the idea is the utter banishment from the sport.

 

[iahawks10]

Like I said, the idea is the utter banishment from the sport.

I like the idea, but don’t get the comparison to Pete Rose with the NCAA.

The NCAA needs to take a page from the MLB playbook, that’s the comparison here. That and reinstate Pete Rose, but that’s a whole different thread.

 

[Hawk_4shur]

I think many, or most, people assume that successful coaches that are at top basketball schools and have success on the recruiting front and on the floor, are cheating. I don't think that's fair,

For example, Roy Williams has been labeled a cheater because some of his players took a Moron 101 course at NC, that was also available to all students. I took a similar course at Iowa in 1976, and had 2 basketball players in my class. I never went to class, read the book and showed up for quizzes/tests (where I saw the aforementioned Hawks) and got a B. I don't think too many people think Lute cheated at Iowa.

We all know Bruce Pearl cheated, because he got caught. It was a nothing burger, except he lied about it. Pitino danced around a lot of accusations until it was discovered his Asst Coach was hiring hookers.

Coach K? Bill Self? IDK. Calipari always seems to be a step ahead of the law, but he hasn't been busted yet to my knowledge.

We need more coaches to get caught when they cheat, and have their careers ruined.

 

[papabeef]

screw rose , he bet on his team while coaching and continued to lie about it .

 

[chuck285]

screw rose , he bet on his team while coaching and continued to lie about it .

IMO there are two different topics here. He should have been busted for betting while coaching and kicked out. But he still should be in the HOF as a player. Never cheated as far as we know. How many other players have cheated and yet are in the HOF...This was just the Baseball gods finding a scape goat to prove a point. I think we see this in politics now

 

[hawksense]

I like the idea, but don’t get the comparison to Pete Rose with the NCAA.

The NCAA needs to take a page from the MLB playbook, that’s the comparison here. That and reinstate Pete Rose, but that’s a whole different thread.

The comparison is that baseball wasn't about to let Rose's transgressions go. They dealt with the black eye by cutting off all ties.

It's that finality that I wish CBB would embrace. It's dirty.

 

[HoustonREDHawk]

I have never liked Pete Rose, but as far as I know, he didn't fix games. He just loved to gamble. I think his punishment should have been severe, but it is debatable whether he should still be banned from the Hall (unless there really is evidence of fixing).

It wouldn't be hard to argue that some of the cheating going on in college BB is far worse than what Rose did, and those involved should get banned from ever coaching again. IMO, any coach who has been shown to bribe a recruit or overlook eligibility requirements, should at a minimum, lose their jobs, all pay, and not coach college BB for a long time (minimum 3 years and maximum forever, depending on the severity and pervasiveness or the cheating). Schools should also face harsh punishment, including loss of scholarships, and loss of revenue from their conferences/financial penalties, forfeiture of wins for the period of the cheating. Athletes involved in the cheating should at least lose one year of eligibility. Athletes on the team not involved in the cheating should be allowed to transfer immediately without sitting out a year.

 

[HawkIDrummer]

Have to take this opportunity to share my Pete Rose story.

Me and the boys are in Vegas for March Madness opening weekend a couple years ago. Strolling around one afternoon we pass a sports memorabilia store where Rose is signing autographs. We decide, what the hell let's go in. Couple of us bought a baseball and waited in the short line to get his autograph and meet Pete.

As I approach the table, he's watching NCAA tourney games on a small portable TV. He says "just a second" and holds his hand up. I look at the TV and it's the closing seconds of a game...probably a 10-15 point lead...guy shooting free throws...games basically over. The guy at the line misses a free throw and Rose goes "DAMMIT" and clenches his fist. We all knew what we were seeing...it was priceless.

 

[Sivert]

Betting on your sport undermines the competitive arena.
Cheating in recruiting does the same, but nobody cares. Because College Basketball isn’t a level playing field and nobody seems to wish it was.

Testimony seems to indicate that Clemson recruiters intended to pay Zion. But he went to Duke (for free?). It’s hard to imagine that recruits don’t let it slip to Iowa coaches what their payments from other schools are.

Top players are happy get $$ under the table. Mid players are happy to get education payed for and compete. .

Blue bloods are happy to do what they obviously do (cheat).
Mid P5 (ahem) schools are happy to make money with middle performance. They’re not gonna object to the cheating, and who knows whether they do it also.
MidMajors aren’t in a position to make any complaints. They are happy to be at the table, even if it isn’t level.
The NCAA is making a ton of money, so why rock the boat?
The FBI seems to be the only ones objecting to the rule breaking.

 

[The Deplorable Sleeping Dog]

Sivert, you have said a mouthful. Our culture is fairly corrupt and college sports are no outlier. When Reggie Bush came rolling into the parking lot driving the same Escalade as Pete Carroll you'd think Sneaky Pete would be on inquiry notice of some kind of shenanigan.

Tennessee had a decade long academic scandal with TAs writing papers and taking tests. Nothing happened. Think of the massive volume of evidence that was necessary to stop the Pitino crime family in Louisville?

Nothing will happen to the major corruption figures because everyone makes money by the truck load.

 

[Sivert]

It seems to me that what makes the cheating work is the incredible team loyalty. In a pro sport, if a few of the teams cheated, the losing teams’ fans would get sick of it and quit caring. Who would continue as a Vikings fan through seasons if their record was 0.5 and other teams were cheating?

Only one thing has the possibility of making the NCAA or member schools fix it: loss of fan interest. If the FBI reveals enough dirty play, then some fans will say, “Why care about this?”
If the cheating is kept under the carpet and plausibly deniable, then fans can go on pretending they are rooting for a team in a fair fight. And that makes it fun, even if deep down you know it isn’t.

 

[ROCKY MOUNTAIN HAWK]

I can’t believe how many KU fans that I know that are decent people & know Self is busted & a cheating pos.

Yet they smile in a guilty/joking way about Bill & are more than happy to pretend the evidence against him doesn’t exist.

It’s awful & mind boggling all at the same time.

 

[papabeef]

IMO there are two different topics here. He should have been busted for betting while coaching and kicked out. But he still should be in the HOF as a player. Never cheated as far as we know. How many other players have cheated and yet are in the HOF...This was just the Baseball gods finding a scape goat to prove a point. I think we see this in politics now

everything counts when being considered for HOF . he has got what he deserved .

 

[grayhair81]

Gotta love MLBs consistency-ban Rose for cheating by betting when his weaker pitchers were on the mound but turn a blind eye to the steroids 90% of the players were using for the better part of twenty years. Yup-MLB is all about the integrity of the game. Tom Griswold had a great saying about it "the HOF is going to install a statue of Bud Selig-looking the other way."

 

[NevadaHawk]

When I lived in Vegas, fans of UNLV, admitted the running rebels cheated but rationalized everybody cheats therefore, the cheating was acceptable. I suspect many schools do cheat but to say they all do is not believable.

 

[papabeef]

Gotta love MLBs consistency-ban Rose for cheating by betting when his weaker pitchers were on the mound but turn a blind eye to the steroids 90% of the players were using for the better part of twenty years. Yup-MLB is all about the integrity of the game. Tom Griswold had a great saying about it "the HOF is going to install a statue of Bud Selig-looking the other way."

90% ? got proof of that ?

 

[4th & 9 inches]

But Rose was gambling. I don't think any of the cheating from coaches involves gambling--at least, that's not what the FBI was investigating as far as I know.

Exactly. Uninformed, stupid comparison started in the the first place.

 

[Y2KG21]

I think his point is that coaches who are caught cheating are banned from sports forever. At least as coaches. Too many are suspended for a short period of time and back at it. Bruce Pearl.

 

[blhawk]

Like I said, the idea is the utter banishment from the sport.

Dude, did you stop watching baseball in the 80's? Cheating has always been a part of the game and its far from banishment consequences. Now you can get popped for ped's which is real cheating, not doing something unethical like rose, and you serve a suspension and are back. Pitchers have been doctoring balls and using substances to get extra movement, batters cork bats, teams try to record and steal signals....etc

Totally weird comparison. Saying baseball is "above cheating" is not just totally inaccurate, I'm not sure if you could pick a worse sport for your example. How they dealt with rose is just a double standard compared to how they deal with other violations

 

[myteamcanbeatupyourteam]

You can let Rose in AFTER you let Shoeless Joe in, not before.