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Planned Parenthood sold whole, dead babies to StemExpress.

I took it to mean outlawing the use of fetal stem cells will limit research. So in your example, there wouldn't be enough sabermetrics for all teams, but baseball would outlaw the old evaluation methods. So some teams would not be able to evaluate any players.
That's not how I took that statement. In fact, I read it as it will not limit research because there are other methods.

No, my example shows that there was a better way to do business which most teams didn't know about, or understand well enough for several years. There still are some that resist. It could be the same in research of stem cells. This is what Dr. Prentice is saying. The better science is out there now, even if everyone isn't using it right now. It takes time.
 
That's not how I took that statement. In fact, I read it as it will not limit research because there are other methods.

No, my example shows that there was a better way to do business which most teams didn't know about, or understand well enough for several years. There still are some that resist. It could be the same in research of stem cells. This is what Dr. Prentice is saying. The better science is out there now, even if everyone isn't using it right now. It takes time.

I think you are wrong, but it doesn't really matter. Here is an article from today outlining the use of fetal stem cells. States there is still a need for them though researchers are trying to move away. Hopefully they are able to do that as I am sure they would prefer to be able to conduct their research without any concerns over the ethical issues. I tend to trust these researchers when they say they still need them. It certainly doesn't sound like they are just choosing not to use the new methods or aren't aware of them yet.

http://www.philly.com/philly/health...ssue_research_declining__still_important.html
 
Got it. You couldn't dispute a single fact from the article (maybe the science was a bit above your knowledge level), so you pull the Sgt Schultz, "I see nothing", and then ignore it.

Nope. You have hundreds of articles at your disposal. All from the universities listed that are using fetal cells for research.
So, provide for me the quotes from experts in the field that says fetal stem cell research must be used in lieu of other means.
Do you REALLY need me to look something you can easily Google given the keywords I've provided?

You say, "why not get some good use out of these dead fetuses". Nice logic Joe. So, should we use the science from Nazi experiments because we might be able to save future lives?

Ahhh...the Nazi reference comes out. That's the clear sign that you've lost the debate.

The abortions are occurring regardless as to whether we use the cells. That something positive can come out of a bad situation for a young woman is simply too horrifying for you to acknowledge. SAVE THE BABIES!!!!:eek:

The rest of your post is mostly just rambling, ranting half-connected sentences. No 'federal money' is being spent for the abortions directly, so maybe you can get your Bible-club buddies together and crowdsource something to 'buy' the pregnancies of women who go to PP and pay them enough money to carry their babies to term, then set them up for adoption....

Or, perhaps you should step back if this issue is so emotional for you. But, it is indeed amusing to see you up until 3 AM ranting about abortion issues....
 
I think you are wrong, but it doesn't really matter. Here is an article from today outlining the use of fetal stem cells. States there is still a need for them though researchers are trying to move away. Hopefully they are able to do that as I am sure they would prefer to be able to conduct their research without any concerns over the ethical issues. I tend to trust these researchers when they say they still need them. It certainly doesn't sound like they are just choosing not to use the new methods or aren't aware of them yet.

http://www.philly.com/philly/health...ssue_research_declining__still_important.html

No, the 'new methods' are ways to 'induce' pluripotency into older, adult stem cells. You CAN do that in some cases, but they are NOT the equivalent of truly naive cells, because you are using specific proteins/receptors to create it.

It's pretty much a foundation of the scientific method - if you want to demonstrate something is 'as good as' or 'better than' the existing standard (truly naive cells), you NEED the actual standard as one of your test groups or controls to see if your other methods still hold up.

And, lots of the research is not necessarily using 'naive' cells per se - they are trying to identify which proteins/genes etc are being turned on/off to make a liver cell, or whole liver or organ. Figuring out which receptors are active means you need cells from that particular organ during its formation. And learning how those processes work provides the framework for truly inducing complete organ growth from a plate of fetal or induced pluripotent cells. But if you just have random cells and no roadmap, it's almost impossible to find out which segments of DNA and protein chaperones to activate and when.

So, research on stem cells and fetal tissues is not just about harvesting 'a bunch of stem cells'; getting organs while they are in development enables you to find identical or similar proteins/genes at work in other mammalian models and start creating the map.
 
Nope. You have hundreds of articles at your disposal. All from the universities listed that are using fetal cells for research.

Do you REALLY need me to look something you can easily Google given the keywords I've provided?



Ahhh...the Nazi reference comes out. That's the clear sign that you've lost the debate.

The abortions are occurring regardless as to whether we use the cells. That something positive can come out of a bad situation for a young woman is simply too horrifying for you to acknowledge. SAVE THE BABIES!!!!:eek:

The rest of your post is mostly just rambling, ranting half-connected sentences. No 'federal money' is being spent for the abortions directly, so maybe you can get your Bible-club buddies together and crowdsource something to 'buy' the pregnancies of women who go to PP and pay them enough money to carry their babies to term, then set them up for adoption....

Or, perhaps you should step back if this issue is so emotional for you. But, it is indeed amusing to see you up until 3 AM ranting about abortion issues....
1) Nope, you've provided nothing. Not even a single quote. If I'm wrong, prove it. I'm not doing your work.
2) Nope, in this case the Nazi reference provides us with an applicable example of what you are justifying. Nice logic on your part though. We must kill the baby to maybe, possibly, hopefully 'save lives'. Twisted logic there Joe. Again, if it was no big deal what they were doing why hide it. If it was such a humanitarian service, why not publish and brag about this on their homepage. Why the secret?

"No 'federal money' is being spent for the abortions directly, "

Are you really this stupid? What am I talking about, of course you are. Look up the word fungible you tool.

Good grief, you've misstated the law, blind to the ethical issues involved, misstated my position, gotten facts wrong, etc., .

LOL. Poor Joey is upset. You thought you had a clever response about supporting women to not have abortions. You are so ignorant you didn't even know this goes on ALL across the country in pro-life health centers. Stop being a tool Joe. Educate yourself to what's going on with this issue. From the law, to women's health centers, etc, do some reading. This way you won't continue to make idiotic statements like you do in 99% of your posts.

Poor PP has had a rough few weeks because their ghoulish actions of late term abortions and sale of body parts has horrified people, little old Joe is worried about them. That's sweet, Joe. We can cut off fed funds for them and you can reach into you cheap old pockets and contribute to them with private donations. Do you know what those are Joe? Yes, Joe, since you are not very bright on the issue, I'll let you in on the secret that practically (if not every) every other lobbying group gets money through private donations, not the federal gov't. You are in the extreme minority apologizing for PP actions here.

3 am? That's early for me. I'm up much later every single day. I'm sorry, Joe, you just can't seem to land even one zinger today, can you?
 
I think you are wrong, but it doesn't really matter. Here is an article from today outlining the use of fetal stem cells. States there is still a need for them though researchers are trying to move away. Hopefully they are able to do that as I am sure they would prefer to be able to conduct their research without any concerns over the ethical issues. I tend to trust these researchers when they say they still need them. It certainly doesn't sound like they are just choosing not to use the new methods or aren't aware of them yet.

http://www.philly.com/philly/health...ssue_research_declining__still_important.html
Thank you, I appreciate you at least linked in article with quotes from a doctor in the field addressing. Joe was too chickensh*t to provide an article, so at least you were an honest broker, and I appreciate this.

My question is are there enough fetal stems cells available where there wouldn't be a need to do more harvesting of aborted babies? The doctor in the article could be correct. I would love to see a public debate on the issue with doctors of both sides of the issue making their points.

Again, thanks for the article.
 
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