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POLL: Should public schools be able to punish students for speech outside school grounds?

Should public schools be able to punish students for speech outside school grounds?


  • Total voters
    68
Nov 28, 2010
83,706
37,527
113
Maryland
That's the question asked by Smerconish. What does HROT think?

The speech in question is F-bombs directed at the school/school activities. The punishment is suspension.

Is Instagram (or whatever) really "outside school grounds" when the intended audience is fellow schoolmates?

Do high school kids have the same speech rights as adults?

Does it matter whether the speech question is hate speech?

Or is this just a simple free speech question?

Note: Roberts has ruled for the school and against students in at least one prior case.

 
Im with the "it depends" crowd, need more information.

You indicate "directed at the school/school activities ". Does that mean while at the activities but outside of school hours? Or just after school and talking about school? Like cussing at a football game?

Not sure what the specific scenario is, was a specific case?

But in general, parents should be the ones who regulate their children all the time, and certainly when not conducting school/school activities. If I acted up in school, I'd get double jeopardy, once by the school, and again when my parents found out.
 
Im with the "it depends" crowd, need more information.

You indicate "directed at the school/school activities ". Does that mean while at the activities but outside of school hours? Or just after school and talking about school? Like cussing at a football game?

Not sure what the specific scenario is, was a specific case?

But in general, parents should be the ones who regulate their children all the time, and certainly when not conducting school/school activities. If I acted up in school, I'd get double jeopardy, once by the school, and again when my parents found out.
I flipped on the tube and caught the tail end of the segment. My guess is that some HS chick didn't make the cheerleading squad and laid some F-bombs on the cheerleading program and the school on Instagram. But I failed when I tried googling that, so I'm just guessing.

Maybe someone here can help us out on the specifics.

But even without the specifics, which way do you lean on questions like this?

It doesn't strike me as particularly disruptive. More blowing off steam with unapproved language. I recognize that we live in a nation that gets more upset about cussing than, say, about child abuse, but I don't share those priorities.
 
I love people who ask questions that were already answered in the OP.
You partially answered two of those three elements. Had you wanted to limit the poll response to a question of suspension for f-bombs you would have limited your poll question to that. You didn't. You made the poll question broader, then further broadened it by the questions you raised in your subsequent post.
 
You partially answered two of those three elements. Had you wanted to limit the poll response to a question of suspension for f-bombs you would have limited your poll question to that. You didn't. You made the poll question broader, then further broadened it by the questions you raised in your subsequent post.
I used Smerconish's language for the poll question so people could compare HROT's results with his, if they wanted to. As you would have known if you had clicked the link.
 
I flipped on the tube and caught the tail end of the segment. My guess is that some HS chick didn't make the cheerleading squad and laid some F-bombs on the cheerleading program and the school on Instagram. But I failed when I tried googling that, so I'm just guessing.

Maybe someone here can help us out on the specifics.

But even without the specifics, which way do you lean on questions like this?

It doesn't strike me as particularly disruptive. More blowing off steam with unapproved language. I recognize that we live in a nation that gets more upset about cussing than, say, about child abuse, but I don't share those priorities.


So there was a chick who created a video dropping the N-word, several times. It was snap chat so was supposed to disappear, but, as many people called out, there are several ways to make those NOT disappear (users are stupid). The video reappeared after she got a scholarship to UT, she was then removed from the UT Cheerleading squad, then had her acceptance to UT (Tennessee) reminded and now she has to go to community college because her life is ruined (her dramatic words)..... I have zero issues with how UT handled this. The stupid shall be punished. And especially the racist ones. This may be a separate case, but this is one that I saw on the news in the last week.

Now if there is a SEPARATE (but similar) case, I'd likely support the school to making it clear they have certain standards they expect their team to uphold when on and off the cheer mats. You become a representative for the program and school. So, based on that, yes, if the behavior is something that became public, reflected poorly on the school / team, then yes, kicking her off the team is likely sufficient punishment to make it clear her behavior isn't what they expect. Based on the details you provided.

Momma said you should always act like your behavior will end up on the front page of the news paper.
 
I used Smerconish's language for the poll question so people could compare HROT's results with his, if they wanted to. As you would have known if you had clicked the link.

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say very few know who he is, let alone care about a poll result on his website. Regardless, it's not a good way to run a poll with results that actually mean anything.
 
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So there was a chick who created a video dropping the N-word, several times. It was snap chat so was supposed to disappear, but, as many people called out, there are several ways to make those NOT disappear (users are stupid). The video reappeared after she got a scholarship to UT, she was then removed from the UT Cheerleading squad, then had her acceptance to UT (Tennessee) reminded and now she has to go to community college because her life is ruined (her dramatic words)..... I have zero issues with how UT handled this. The stupid shall be punished. And especially the racist ones. This may be a separate case, but this is one that I saw on the news in the last week.

Now if there is a SEPARATE (but similar) case, I'd likely support the school to making it clear they have certain standards they expect their team to uphold when on and off the cheer mats. You become a representative for the program and school. So, based on that, yes, if the behavior is something that became public, reflected poorly on the school / team, then yes, kicking her off the team is likely sufficient punishment to make it clear her behavior isn't what they expect. Based on the details you provided.

Momma said you should always act like your behavior will end up on the front page of the news paper.
She created the video when she was 15, iirc.
 
She created the video when she was 15, iirc.


Yeah, that specific case was the one I thought might be the reason this came up. And yeah, there was a HUGE lag between action and exposure. She needs to evaluate her friendships as well.
 
Many schools have codes of conduct that are signed in order to participate in extracurricular activities. If those are violated either at or away from school, then those privileges can be revoked. Suspension is too much IMO.
 
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I'm gonna go out on a limb and say very few know who he is, let alone care about a poll result on his website.
They should. He's an excellent host who presents intelligent, reasoned thoughts and has interesting guests whom he allows to speak without interrupting them.
 
IIRC she was suspended from cheerleading for the entire year. That's extreme and excessive. But the cheerleading coaches should have the ability to discipline speech that is disruptive to the squad. I think a one or two game suspension would have been more appropriate.
 
So there was a chick who created a video dropping the N-word, several times. It was snap chat so was supposed to disappear, but, as many people called out, there are several ways to make those NOT disappear (users are stupid). The video reappeared after she got a scholarship to UT, she was then removed from the UT Cheerleading squad, then had her acceptance to UT (Tennessee) reminded and now she has to go to community college because her life is ruined (her dramatic words)..... I have zero issues with how UT handled this. The stupid shall be punished. And especially the racist ones. This may be a separate case, but this is one that I saw on the news in the last week.

Now if there is a SEPARATE (but similar) case, I'd likely support the school to making it clear they have certain standards they expect their team to uphold when on and off the cheer mats. You become a representative for the program and school. So, based on that, yes, if the behavior is something that became public, reflected poorly on the school / team, then yes, kicking her off the team is likely sufficient punishment to make it clear her behavior isn't what they expect. Based on the details you provided.

Momma said you should always act like your behavior will end up on the front page of the news paper.

You’re not really telling the UT story correctly. And failed to mention:

- that it was a three second clip where a 15 year old got her license and said “i can drive n——-s.”
- that years later she was raising money and awareness for BLM and racial diversity
- and was called a hypocrite by someone who held a grudge against her for years who held onto it for FOUR years pulled it out as revenge.

Not sure someone shouldn’t be allowed to attend college when it’s all added up.
 
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She seems like a basket case, but that is most teenagers.

I can't decide what I think about this. I see both sides. I think I lean more towards the school because it is an extracurricular activity and she agreed not to break the rules that she clearly broke. How is she supposed to be a member of a team when the whole team knows that that is what she thinks of them.
 
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So there was a chick who created a video dropping the N-word, several times. It was snap chat so was supposed to disappear, but, as many people called out, there are several ways to make those NOT disappear (users are stupid). The video reappeared after she got a scholarship to UT, she was then removed from the UT Cheerleading squad, then had her acceptance to UT (Tennessee) reminded and now she has to go to community college because her life is ruined (her dramatic words)..... I have zero issues with how UT handled this. The stupid shall be punished. And especially the racist ones. This may be a separate case, but this is one that I saw on the news in the last week.

Now if there is a SEPARATE (but similar) case, I'd likely support the school to making it clear they have certain standards they expect their team to uphold when on and off the cheer mats. You become a representative for the program and school. So, based on that, yes, if the behavior is something that became public, reflected poorly on the school / team, then yes, kicking her off the team is likely sufficient punishment to make it clear her behavior isn't what they expect. Based on the details you provided.

Momma said you should always act like your behavior will end up on the front page of the news paper.
Do you think N-bombs and F-bombs are equally repugnant?

That should probably have it's own poll.

It makes sense to me to get upset about racism. Not so much about simple cussing.
 
IIRC she was suspended from cheerleading for the entire year. That's extreme and excessive. But the cheerleading coaches should have the ability to discipline speech that is disruptive to the squad. I think a one or two game suspension would have been more appropriate.

Agreed. And snitches should get stitches.
 
IIRC she was suspended from cheerleading for the entire year. That's extreme and excessive. But the cheerleading coaches should have the ability to discipline speech that is disruptive to the squad. I think a one or two game suspension would have been more appropriate.

As much as anything else, the school/parents need to get it thru to this kid that she has to be aware stuff like this is out there FOREVER. Not saying that’s right sometimes, but kids today don’t seem to realize that once something is on the Internet, it never goes away. Even if she wins this case, there’s no guarantee it doesn’t come back in her down the road.
 
Do you think N-bombs and F-bombs are equally repugnant?

That should probably have it's own poll.

It makes sense to me to get upset about racism. Not so much about simple cussing.


I do NOT think they are equal at all. F#%k is my favorite cuss word, it is so versatile. But as I indicated in the way back post, more information about details would be nice, otherwise it is all speculation.

Now that we have the details, her venting was pretty tame, but we also don't know if she has had a history. That was also BARELY directed at the school. But the answer is still the same, yes, depending on the scenario, they COULD punish IMO. With these details, it's pretty weak, but she likely won't make varsity ever.
 
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That's the question asked by Smerconish. What does HROT think?

The speech in question is F-bombs directed at the school/school activities. The punishment is suspension.

Is Instagram (or whatever) really "outside school grounds" when the intended audience is fellow schoolmates?

Do high school kids have the same speech rights as adults?

Does it matter whether the speech question is hate speech?

Or is this just a simple free speech question?

Note: Roberts has ruled for the school and against students in at least one prior case.

Based on the scenario, no, I don’t think any punishment from the school is warranted.
 
You’re not really telling the UT story correctly. And failed to mention:

- that it was a three second clip where a 15 year old got her license and said “i can drive n——-s.” Apparently it wasn't just once, there are two instances
- that years later she was raising money and awareness for BLM and racial diversity
- and was called a hypocrite by someone who held a grudge against her for years who held onto it for FOUR years pulled it out as revenge. Yeah, I didn't specify the time, but indicated it was delayed

Not sure someone shouldn’t be allowed to attend college when it’s all added up. See below

For someone trying to correct me, you have a lot of details wrong.


A Twitter thread showing the student using a racial slur twice...
In addition to the snapchat video.

I see no reports that UT kicked her out of school (which I also stated incorrectly), only that they removed her from the squad. And she will also not be attending UT. With the 5 articles I have checked, they are making those 2 separate statements and not actually stating her application was rescinded.


So you couldn't even correct me correctly.....
 
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Here's some context if anyone is interested:


Thanks, actually having the details really helps... :)


Many schools have codes of conduct that are signed in order to participate in extracurricular activities. If those are violated either at or away from school, then those privileges can be revoked. Suspension is too much IMO.

Yes, and apparently this cheerleader DID have a code of conduct and clearly violated said code. With your post above, you gonna go change your vote to yes now? ;) The question was merely punish, not suspend.
 
Looks like 9/10 say no... let’s move on
Oh, that's not how this works for these Decemberists. They, of course, see this as just another reason to ABOLISH!/DISMANTLE!/REIMAGINE!

Remember: "Liberals get the wall, too!"

Can't wait for that revolution, "ladies."
 
That's the question asked by Smerconish. What does HROT think?

The speech in question is F-bombs directed at the school/school activities. The punishment is suspension.

Is Instagram (or whatever) really "outside school grounds" when the intended audience is fellow schoolmates?

Do high school kids have the same speech rights as adults?

Does it matter whether the speech question is hate speech?

Or is this just a simple free speech question?

Note: Roberts has ruled for the school and against students in at least one prior case.


Should she be officially punished? Probably not. Should all coaches take notice and use that behavior against her when deciding on including her in the future? Absolutely.
 
I voted “absolutely yes” based on extreme behavior and threatening speech. I would vote “absolutely not” for just trashy behavior.
 
My answer. If school is virtual yes. If it's in person, no.

Chances are whatever the students are doing that deserves punishment isn't as bad as what teachers unions have done to avoid in person school. Union leaders deserve punishment equivalent to that of an emotional abuser.
 
I agree with this part of your comment, but the rest of your comment seems to backtrack.


I don't think I have at all. But for clarity sake, lets get you to specify which case (because I mentioned one, that wasn't the incident you were actually talking about). So, you tell me which case you want to discuss and I will make it crystal clear based on a single specific instance. And I will show you I haven't backtracked. And I will also show where I indicated "need more information". Fair?
 
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