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Pope criticizes anti-gay laws, says ‘being homosexual is not a crime’

cigaretteman

HR King
May 29, 2001
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Pope Francis condemned “unjust” legislation criminalizing same-sex relationships around the world, saying “being homosexual is not a crime” in an interview published Wednesday.
He said the church must work to end such laws, while Catholic bishops who support them “have to have a process of conversion.” Instead, the clergy should offer “tenderness, please, as God has for each one of us,” the pontiff told the Associated Press.


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“We are all children of God, and God loves us as we are and for the strength that each of us fights for our dignity,” he said.
What Pope Francis has said about same-sex marriage and civil unions in the past
At least 67 countries, the majority in Africa or the Middle East, have national laws against same-sex relations, while at least nine others criminalize gender expression against transgender or other people, according to Human Rights Watch.

The pope is set to visit South Sudan — one of the countries that criminalizes homosexuality — from Feb. 3 to 5.






In the United States, meanwhile, more than a dozen states still have anti-sodomy laws, the AP reports, even though the Supreme Court determined them to be unconstitutional in 2003.
Although Francis criticized the criminalization of homosexuality, he made it clear he believes gay acts are a sin. “Let’s distinguish between a sin and a crime,” the pope said.
The British colonial origins of anti-gay laws
The church teaches that homosexual acts are “intrinsically disordered,” and though Francis has tried to use a more welcoming tone toward LGBT Catholics — most famously saying, “Who am I to judge?” — he has been unwilling to alter the official church stance.

That has left some of his supporters wishing for more. In 2021, the Vatican’s doctrinal body said Catholic priests can’t bless same-sex marriages. That decree, signed by Francis, came even after he had been quoted in a documentary as advocating for civil union laws.
Pope Francis says priests cannot bless same-sex unions, dashing hopes of gay Catholics
The issue of how the church approaches LGBT issues could come to a boiling point during an extraordinary churchwide assembly that Francis is convening in October. Conservatives fear the consultation will undermine the church’s long-held moral positions.
A preparatory Vatican document cited calls from parts of the church to become more welcoming to those who “feel a tension between belonging to the Church and their own loving relationships.”

 
What's the point in being Pope then?

The pope actually single handedly laying down doctrine is a pretty rare thing. It's only been invoked one time since the power was explicitly laid out in 1870 by the First Vatican Council. In order to do it the pope needs to explicitly state that he's doing so somehow, either by saying he is speaking "Ex Cathedra" (From the chair) or by saying that one must believe this to be definitively "Catholic".

Most of the job of being pope is just to serve as a leader and example for the whole church, but even leaders have their limits.

The pope can not erase an old doctrine, he can only add new doctrines that do not conflict with the old. So the pope simply can not allow women to be priests nor can he make same sex acts not sinful nor can he allow the blessing of same sex unions in the church. The biggest change he could make would probably be that he can allow priests to marry since that is not considered a doctrine of the church but simply a practice or a rule. He can change the rules but he can't change the teachings.
 
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The pope actually single handedly laying down doctrine is a pretty rare thing. It's only been invoked one time since the power was explicitly laid out in 1870 by the First Vatican Council. In order to do it the pope needs to explicitly state that he's doing so somehow, either by saying he is speaking "Ex Cathedra" (From the chair) or by saying that one must believe this to be definitively "Catholic"

Most of the job of being pope is just to serve as a leader for the whole church, but even leaders have their limits.

The pope can not erase an old doctrine, he can only add new doctrines that do not conflict with the old. So the pope simply can not allow women to be priests nor can he make same sex acts not sinful nor can he allow the blessing of same sex unions in the church. The biggest change he could make would probably be that he can allow priests to marry since that is not considered a doctrine of the church but simply a practice or a rule. He can change the rules but he can't change the teachings.
I would have thought women being priests fell under rules, not teachings. How is that distinction made?

I mean I can see something like gay sex never being accepted because it's actually discussed and disapproved of in scripture. But what about the others?
 
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I would have thought women being priests fell under rules, not teachings. How is that distinction made?

I mean I can see something like gay sex never being accepted because it's actually discussed and disapproved of in scripture. But what about the others?

Scripture clearly lays out the pastoral office as being reserved for men only. However it doesn't lay out that they must be single. It says that they can only have one wife though. Some people read into that as saying pastors can not be actively married to multiple women at the same time. A few believe that means that not only can they not be actively married to multiple women at the same time but they can also not be divorced and re-married. Even as anti-divorce as I am I think the second interpretation is a stretch of the text. However a pastor choosing to divorce for reasons other than adultery of his spouse or abandonment by his spouse would be a serious sin which would disqualify that person from being pastor at that time IMO.
 
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best Pope ever
Certainly in my lifetime.

No Liberation Theologist, but as close as the Church is likely to get any time soon, if ever.

He's 83. I fear the next one will backtrack on the improvements Pope Frank has made. I hope to be wrong but we've been hearing about unrest among the Cardinals and others in the Catholic power heirarchy who don't like how liberal this slightly moderate Pope is.
 
He may just be a little more outspoken on the subject. But I am pretty sure the popes prior to him also agreed that it should not be criminal.

This would not surprise me. The popes are rarely very far apart in terms of their views on things, it's mostly different personalities. Quite frankly how the media reports things makes a lot of difference.

 
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Jesus hung around 12 dudes and never had a gf even though he was God, good looking, and ripped.
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Certainly in my lifetime.

No Liberation Theologist, but as close as the Church is likely to get any time soon, if ever.

He's 83. I fear the next one will backtrack on the improvements Pope Frank has made. I hope to be wrong but we've been hearing about unrest among the Cardinals and others in the Catholic power heirarchy who don't like how liberal this slightly moderate Pope is.

He's not really all that different in terms of his views from previous popes. It's all a matter of how the media reports on things. The media has given him a lot of positive coverage because for some reason they like him like they did JPII. The media was far more negative on Benedict XVI.

I posted a link to a quiz where you try to determine which pope said what. I think you would be surprised.
 
Pope Francis condemned “unjust” legislation criminalizing same-sex relationships around the world, saying “being homosexual is not a crime” in an interview published Wednesday.
He said the church must work to end such laws, while Catholic bishops who support them “have to have a process of conversion.” Instead, the clergy should offer “tenderness, please, as God has for each one of us,” the pontiff told the Associated Press.


Are you on Telegram? Subscribe to our channel for the latest updates on Russia’s war in Ukraine.

“We are all children of God, and God loves us as we are and for the strength that each of us fights for our dignity,” he said.
What Pope Francis has said about same-sex marriage and civil unions in the past
At least 67 countries, the majority in Africa or the Middle East, have national laws against same-sex relations, while at least nine others criminalize gender expression against transgender or other people, according to Human Rights Watch.

The pope is set to visit South Sudan — one of the countries that criminalizes homosexuality — from Feb. 3 to 5.






In the United States, meanwhile, more than a dozen states still have anti-sodomy laws, the AP reports, even though the Supreme Court determined them to be unconstitutional in 2003.
Although Francis criticized the criminalization of homosexuality, he made it clear he believes gay acts are a sin. “Let’s distinguish between a sin and a crime,” the pope said.
The British colonial origins of anti-gay laws
The church teaches that homosexual acts are “intrinsically disordered,” and though Francis has tried to use a more welcoming tone toward LGBT Catholics — most famously saying, “Who am I to judge?” — he has been unwilling to alter the official church stance.

That has left some of his supporters wishing for more. In 2021, the Vatican’s doctrinal body said Catholic priests can’t bless same-sex marriages. That decree, signed by Francis, came even after he had been quoted in a documentary as advocating for civil union laws.
Pope Francis says priests cannot bless same-sex unions, dashing hopes of gay Catholics
The issue of how the church approaches LGBT issues could come to a boiling point during an extraordinary churchwide assembly that Francis is convening in October. Conservatives fear the consultation will undermine the church’s long-held moral positions.
A preparatory Vatican document cited calls from parts of the church to become more welcoming to those who “feel a tension between belonging to the Church and their own loving relationships.”

Yeah, and...? Are you implying that somehow the Church's view of homosexuality as being "disordered" (an unfortunate, if technical, theological term) translates into the Church supporting criminalization of homosexuality? Because if you are, you would be wrong. It is of course very nice for Francis to say it out loud, but it's not exactly new.

As to US state laws, yeah, some are still on the books, just like many real estate titles (a shocking number, really), still have restrictive covenants associated with them. The reality is that state legislatures generally aren't chomping at the bit to spend their legislative time cleaning up their state statutes to remove illegal things no longer on the books, until they otherwise want to do something with that particular section of the statute. (Something about lemonade stands comes to mind.) Thus, often that sort of general cleanup is done on a more of a cyclical schedule as a practical matter, rather than to allow a given state legislator to sleep better at night knowing a law that can't be enforced anyway is off the books.
 
My favorite Pope ever is Father Guido Sarducci. He got to wear that cool hat and ride in the Popemobile. He seemed very passionate about the position.
 
On Tuesday, Francis said there needed to be a distinction between a crime and a sin with regard to homosexuality.

“Being homosexual is not a crime,” he said. “It’s not a crime. Yes, but it’s a sin. Fine, but first let’s distinguish between a sin and a crime.”

“It’s also a sin to lack charity with one another,” he added.

Catholic teaching holds that while gay people must be treated with respect, homosexual acts are “intrinsically disordered.” Francis has not changed that teaching, but he has made reaching out to the LGBTQ community a hallmark of his papacy.

 
On Tuesday, Francis said there needed to be a distinction between a crime and a sin with regard to homosexuality.

“Being homosexual is not a crime,” he said. “It’s not a crime. Yes, but it’s a sin. Fine, but first let’s distinguish between a sin and a crime.”

“It’s also a sin to lack charity with one another,” he added.

Catholic teaching holds that while gay people must be treated with respect, homosexual acts are “intrinsically disordered.” Francis has not changed that teaching, but he has made reaching out to the LGBTQ community a hallmark of his papacy.

Thank you, sir (notwithstanding the citation from the Tribune as catechism). :)
 
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