Lol at OP judging a season on the first 3 games.
Prepare for NIT
- Thread starter And1Hawk
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Very bad luck with Connor getting Mono.
As to the game, once again we played man to man against a smaller, quicker opponent. Right up to the last when we shut them down with the zone.
Embrace the zone! With our length we can close out and cause problems for shooters.
I'm looking forward to seeing us use all the tools we've got in the Caymans.
As to the game, once again we played man to man against a smaller, quicker opponent. Right up to the last when we shut them down with the zone.
Embrace the zone! With our length we can close out and cause problems for shooters.
I'm looking forward to seeing us use all the tools we've got in the Caymans.
Yes don't make proclamations one way or the other on a single game. Nothing displayed by Iowa in this game should be a surprise. Iowa lacks the quickness of the best teams in the Big Ten. Grambling caused Iowa a ton of problems in just staying in front of them on defense. Iowa will face a lot better players than what Grambling put out there in subsequent games.
For the last 10 minutes -- once Iowa fell behind -- the intensity in the zone was good and Fran kept the rotation short and surprise, Iowa outscored them by 13 points or whatever in those 10 minutes. Everyone is fascinated by Iowa's "depth," when in reality none of Iowa's perimeter depth is of quality. The frontcourt depth is real, but Fran needs to balance showcasing that depth with letting his best players play meaningful minutes against good teams. Assuming everyone is healthy, starters with Baer, then subs Nunge and Pemsl, sprinkle in Kriener and Wagner for fouls if needed, and in the backcourt Bohannon and Moss each 28-30 minutes and add in Conor, Ellingson, Daily to fill out the 20 minutes fo playing time left. But not 10+ guys playing at least 10 minutes a night. Won't work.
Hard to judge Fran's teams in November. It seems to me that the players always look very slow-footed in the November games, compared to December and the rest of the year. I guessing Fran is still working them very hard preparing for the long season and I doubt he lets up much just because they have a game against Whosit St the next day. They just look very sluggish out there.
I watched Connor play a few times in HS and I was not impressed.
I didn't think he was a 4 star recruit. I dont understand how a son of a coach shoots a set shot? Set shot Buford is not a good look.
Out best line up last night was when we had Nunge at the 3 with Cook and Garza. Stopped their penetration short of the rim and we gobbled up most rebounds. I wonder how long until he usurps Wagner as a starter. I'm guessing fairly soon. If he plays well against better competition we may see Baer as the 6th man again.
It's a realistic and honest assessment. That is we are short a really good guard that can play both ends adding to our depth. We are not quick enough in the backcourt to play quality defense. We are unable to pressure the ball and stay in front. We are fine in the front court and wing with Nunge.
This is based on our deficiencies last year and now 5 games into this year. It's not fixable because it's personnel. On top of that it looks like JBO is playing hurt so if he slumps offensively this season due to injury look out.
The B1G is going to be tough this year and many teams have size and athleticism. We will be exposed probably sooner than league play.
He's not. Gives us a serviceable backup. Likely will not have much of an impact at Iowa.
His brother though... the real deal.
A point guard like Connor who knows the offense and is a good ball handler and excels in passing the ball with our front court should be just what is needed . I am pretty confident he will be quite an asset once we have him back. In what little I witnessed his play this year, I was impressed what he could do with the ball in his hands. On defense, he is a freshman, so I would give him a break for a couple more games. I didn't see him out of position very often. His opponent wasn't blowing by him regularly and he is long also for a backcourt player. I'd feel much better with both he and Nicholas Baer ready to go now but obviously it may not happen much until 2018.
Iowa doesn't have any guards that can cover any quick guards 1 on 1 and that is a huge problem and won't change even with Connor is he is just as slow as the rest of the guards. NCAA is guard dominated and that is Iowa's one not bad spot but not having quick guards will cost us in the end.
It all depends upon your definition of "cost." If that means is Iowa good enough to go to the Final 4, then I would agree that Iowa's lack of quickness will "cost" Iowa. Iowa is certainly good enough to finish in the top half of the league and with some breaks/health, it can be right there contending. The team is that skilled and potentially good on offense.
Iowa is what it is. A team that can cause others fits with size and skill, and can keep running quality big guys out there at the 3-5 spots. But Hawks will have games when the opponent causes them trouble getting up into Iowa and making it hard to initiate the offense and in defending. Everyone can react however they want, but I will not enjoy the posts to come about how it's "unacceptable" that the players aren't better. I'll enjoy the team for what it is and see how far that can take them. The best part of what Fran does is to have his teams keep plugging away. I'm looking forward to next week. This team needs to get an idea of what it has by playing some real teams.
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IDK, the Hawks need some offense with the second unit, and Nunge may be the guy. It's not so critical who starts games, it's who finishes them. I'd say Nunge is going to get a lot of floor time in the last 10 minutes of games.
Maishe may have a lot to say about that. If we are talking straight 2nd wave, 5 new guys and not a blend, we have Baer, Pemsl, Kriener, Brady. No exactly striking a ton of fear into teams, but could be effective against other teams' bench. Throw in an effective Maishe, and that opens that unit up quite a bit.
True but Omaha was like rpi 170 gambling will end like 340.. if Iowa would have lost my math says they would have had to go 23-8 to have a resume that would be considered. But you're absolutely right, they won so it's done..
Connor’s not a superstar. He’s tough, he’s solid with the ball, he’s under control, he’s usually in the right spot and the lights aren’t too bright for him. I’m glad he plays for Iowa.
At the game last night I actually said to myself, knowing I wouldn't be able to keep myself from coming to this forum, "prepare for overreaction."
Recently Kentucky had close games against a couple of over matched opponents.....came back and played Kansas in a very close game......bottom line is, it's way to early to panic about a game like this.
Almost any team can compete with another on a given day.....there are and will continue to be examples of exactly that. We will call these upsets and near upsets or weak wins, etc....
Panicking about a bad game, or two, is probably not going to make ones expectations more realistic.
In my estimation a person has a better chance of guessing correctly about how a team will perform is to look at more long term trends.
I’m not going to panic if we don’t perform as well as I hope in this tournament....I will be disappointed if we don’t.....and anxiously waiting for the next game.
Almost any team can compete with another on a given day.....there are and will continue to be examples of exactly that. We will call these upsets and near upsets or weak wins, etc....
Panicking about a bad game, or two, is probably not going to make ones expectations more realistic.
In my estimation a person has a better chance of guessing correctly about how a team will perform is to look at more long term trends.
I’m not going to panic if we don’t perform as well as I hope in this tournament....I will be disappointed if we don’t.....and anxiously waiting for the next game.
good post Dodger. So true. There are going to be nights even when they get everyone back, still struggle with matchups, but pose their own set of problems for other teams as well.
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Unless I missed it ..OP totally ignores what the zone did to Grambling last night...to say NIT after 3 games is brutally premature.
First as much as it is not mentioned...credit Grambling. I liked them...as Nunge said afterwards "they brought it"...played very well as a team...once we went zone with Garza Cook Nunge..game over...
we also limited "their" lateral quickness with a token press..lead by Nunge in the front...Grambling did not run us.
This mindset that you have to have lateral quickness in order to win (make the NCAA) is ridiculous. They are many ways to skin a cat. Believe it or not it wasnt Grambling's lateral quickness last night..it was their passing, unselfish play and rebounding as hard as they could.
Our 9 turnovers in the first half were not caused by quickness (or what some deem as lack of another guard) ... it was some passes including interior...going to happen sometimes when you have big guys looking for big guys.
While Iowa may not be a team of speedsters..Iowa does present some issues for our opponents...we do have strengths.
My 3 favorite posts in this thread......just want to bump them up again because I really, really like reading them. They just make too much sense compared to the rest..
Once we were down by 3 in the second half Fran went with JoBo, Moss, Nunge, Cook and Garza. I think this lineup will be the money lineup when it is time to win games with Baer plugged in at times as well. He also went to the zone which shut down Grambling. It was pretty telling that we didn't see Uhl last night and Wagner's minutes were very limited. I'm also in the camp that Dailey needs to see just as much if not more time than Ellingson. Too early to say NIT, but I think last night showed that we won't be going 11-13 deep and we shouldn't.
Wonderful post.
Grambling played great basketball for the vast majority of the game, working their offense (even some flex!) patiently and competing every possession on both ends. Walking out of Carver I said to my brother that I'm not sure they (Grambling) took more than one bad, or even questionable, shot all game. That's impressive on the road this early in the season. Credit their players and coaching staff.
Bohannon doesn't look 100%, not injured as much as maybe fighting a cold or the flu. Baer brings a ton to this team on both ends, but especially on defense. There is a different energy on the floor when he is playing. So it will be interesting to see what his return injects into the team.
The only two things I wished for last night: 1) Dom to get a chance to up the energy when the team hit a lull. Like him or not, he usually makes an immediate impact with a hustle play or two, gets an extra possession with an offensive rebound, something. 2) Maishe some minutes in the second half when we couldn't get stops.
I agree with this statement
You never know what the development of the season will be
It's not so much as having a particular skill will limit a team, it's that the particular thing Iowa is lacking shows up when trying to defend teams. It really doesn't matter how Iowa goes about trying to stop a team (man, zone, press), ultimately it matters whether or not they can.
Grambling scored 74 points on 68 possessions. That is not good defense against a bad opponent. And yes, Grambling could end up being okay in their league but no one in the Big Ten is remotely as bad as is Grambling. The reason Iowa won is due to a sterling 86 points on 68 possessions.
It was disturbing to me that Iowa couldn't play effective man-to-man against Grambling. A combination of factors, but at its core is guys struggling to stay in front of their man. When that happens, then all the other dominoes start to fall (not helping vs. overhelping, recovering to shooters, out of position for rebounds, etc.) If this Iowa team wants to be what it thinks it can, they have to be able to play at least some man defense against good teams. Two straight possessions in the middle of the second half illustrate the problem Garza is defending the smaller post about 15 feet away. The guy drives, Garza stays with him enough to contest a running shot near the hoop. Cook leaves his man to try and block the shot but can't come anywhere close to getting it. Cook's man has a free run to the basket to put back the miss. In this case, it was poor recognition by Cook. Yes, it's good to help, but Garza still was in a position to contest the shot. In this case, Cook going for a very low-percentage block just freed his man up to tip in the miss. If he just stays with his man, the shot is missed and Iowa rebounds it.
Next time down the floor, Cook helps on a ball screen near the top of the key on Bohannon's man. They stop the ball, then the ball is thrown to the screener who fanned out to the corner. Cook closes out, but not with any sense of urgency. The guy takes his time to line up the 3 and nails it.
In these two possessions it was Cook, but he has actually improved a lot on defense just by giving more energy this year. On other possessions, it's different guys. My point is playing good team man defense is very hard. Guys have to give great effort and make the right split-second decision, and everyone has to be on the same page. It used to be just make sure and help and make teams shoot from the outside. That is no longer good enough. In many cases, it's better to let teams shoot contested 2's in the lane instead of wide-open 3's.
I was hoping for more improvement on the defensive end from Iowa than what I have seen so far. Doesn't mean the team stinks, just work to do.
poster forget that when Garza went to the locker room Cook and Moss were on the bench catching their breath and Grambling took advantage of that when Garza returned, Cook, Moss and Garza all came back in and went from being down 59-56 to being up by 10 72-62, Grambling against VCU went 2-13 from 3 last night they went 10-24 from 3. making 3's will keep a lot of undermaned teams in games.
and those were deep 3 that don't get contested very often,
GSU almost became this teams UNO. the RPI on ESPN has not been posted and on the BPI Iowa is now up #34, that puts them squarely in the NCAAT
and those were deep 3 that don't get contested very often,
GSU almost became this teams UNO. the RPI on ESPN has not been posted and on the BPI Iowa is now up #34, that puts them squarely in the NCAAT
Moss is a outstanding defender and now is the teams leading scorer, anybody that says that Moss is neither fast and non Athletic is just B***Hing just to B***H. here are the top 3 scorers
Moss 20.3 mpg, 13.7 ppg, shooting 56.5% from the field, 52.9% from 3 and 100% from the FTL
Garza 21.7 mpg, 13.3 ppg, 9 rpg, 2.7 bpg shooting 60.9 % from the field
Cook 22 mpg, 12.3 ppg, 6.3 rpg shooting 66.7% from the field
now if that continues this will bee a team that only gets better and they are doing this W/O Baer who led the team in steals, rebounding and blocked shots.
Moss 20.3 mpg, 13.7 ppg, shooting 56.5% from the field, 52.9% from 3 and 100% from the FTL
Garza 21.7 mpg, 13.3 ppg, 9 rpg, 2.7 bpg shooting 60.9 % from the field
Cook 22 mpg, 12.3 ppg, 6.3 rpg shooting 66.7% from the field
now if that continues this will bee a team that only gets better and they are doing this W/O Baer who led the team in steals, rebounding and blocked shots.
While our guard play is down, I don't know how we are going to defend the smaller/quicker teams. I noticed it last night that we look like we are moving in slow motion and the other team is on fast forward. I realize we can sit in a zone and force the other team to beat us from the outside which will work at times.
I just think our weak Non-conf schedule will screw us in the end. We might have 20+wins but if our SOS is around 150-200, we will be screwed in comparison to other teams.
I just think our weak Non-conf schedule will screw us in the end. We might have 20+wins but if our SOS is around 150-200, we will be screwed in comparison to other teams.
Iowa's slow on the perimeter. I don't think this was ever a question.
I'm not buying yet, though, that this is an absolute killer for them to make the NCAA tourney.
Yes, the half court defense is suspect(and that's probably being kind). But it doesn't have to be great. It just has to get somewhat better. It's not an impossible ask that their communication, rotations, cohesion improve enough for those few extra stops a game to turn some potential losses into wins. They've got a lot of fouls to give up front, so start giving them. Guys at the 3-5 should be ready to help on any guards that get past whatever 1 and 2 are on the floor and not let the opposing guard get to the hoop.
Baer will shore up the perimeter defense, Moss is getting back to 100 % from that ankle injury that slowed him down to start this season. Moss and Baer are 2 of the better perimeter defenders on the team,
Moss is a better defender than Jok and does not turn the ball over,
Moss is a better defender than Jok and does not turn the ball over,
I don't think anyone is disputing Moss' ability. I see no evidence he is yet an outstanding defender. He's good by comparison when looking at the rest of Iowa's guards. The good Big Ten teams have 3-4 guys like Moss and usually at least 2 of them in the game at the same time.
Having Baer back will help quite a bit. He was Iowa's best defender last year.
as disturbing (your words) as Iowa's man-man defense was...Grambling shot less than 43%...Grambling scored 21 of their points off turnovers & errant passes...especially in the first half.
we shot well over 50%...I'll take those offensive shooting & opponents shooting percentages every game.
I'm sure the coaches in game film will point out each & every play that you have pointed out...after 3 games there is zero evidence to suggest this team doesnt have the potential of making the NCAA instead of the NIT.
This shouldn't be surprising,... Our lineup has gotten bigger which equates to slower which equates to zone defense. We will not match up well playing man to man against teams with a smaller quicker line up. We have "good" bigs, we don't have "elite" bigs. Embrace the zone defense, it's going to be our bread & butter....
Sometimes we don't learn much from games like these....but last night was pretty informative. Most notable to me was in the second half when G State took the lead.....Fran calls a timeout, he tells his team what he wants done. He uses the lineup of Cook-Garza-Nunge-Moss-JB.....that tells me that at this point, that is his go to lineup. They went zone and held G State scoreless for a number of minutes. They went from down three to up 11 in a fairly short period of time as they established control of the game.
That lineup on the floor and the fact that Fran's coaching and direction took the game over from a team that was playing really well, that was confident, that was playing free and easy as the underdog, and that had all the momentum is a big deal and a real positive from that game.
One of the things that I love about college sports is how the emotion can change momentum in a heartbeat, and that momentum is a big big force/factor in a game. Think about the Ohio St. v Iowa Football game....Ohio State has unreal talent, the top recruits in the nation.....and our Hawkeyes who haven't been all that impressive otherwise got the momentum and dominated that game.....emotion, momentum, especially by an underdog can be a nearly unstoppable force....I think that we got a glimpse last night of what this team will look like when the find their groove....that lineup, the zone defense, decent free throw shooting, good rebounding, etc.....
That lineup on the floor and the fact that Fran's coaching and direction took the game over from a team that was playing really well, that was confident, that was playing free and easy as the underdog, and that had all the momentum is a big deal and a real positive from that game.
One of the things that I love about college sports is how the emotion can change momentum in a heartbeat, and that momentum is a big big force/factor in a game. Think about the Ohio St. v Iowa Football game....Ohio State has unreal talent, the top recruits in the nation.....and our Hawkeyes who haven't been all that impressive otherwise got the momentum and dominated that game.....emotion, momentum, especially by an underdog can be a nearly unstoppable force....I think that we got a glimpse last night of what this team will look like when the find their groove....that lineup, the zone defense, decent free throw shooting, good rebounding, etc.....
If nothing else I thought Grambling played their best and Iowa got caught sleepwalking for large chunks of the game. A positive imo that they were able to lockdown and close the game out down the stretch.
Lots of learning moments for these guys and they didn’t lose the game in the process a la Nebraska-Omaha last year.
Lots of learning moments for these guys and they didn’t lose the game in the process a la Nebraska-Omaha last year.
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