Privileged BY KYLE KORVER
- Thread starter dgordo
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Thank you for posting. I've written several times, including here in HROT, about similar insights due to my experiences being the token white boy growing up in a life of basketball. Here in HROT, mostly my offerings are met with silence, or skepticism, and sometimes ridicule. Prerogative and privilege are synonyms, it could be noted.
- Sep 13, 2002
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His section on "guilt versus responsibility" should be required reading for all Americans who just can't quite grasp the concept.
Considered sharing this here earlier today.
Thanks for posting it.
Great, must read.
Thanks for posting it.
Great, must read.
Once upon a time, on a 10' rim, yes. Today, 9' on a really good day. I was never explosive. I was good at changing speeds, though, and became really good at winning at the point of attack once my body matured. Does this satisfy you? I would be happy to shoot some hoops with you.
Elements of what he wrote remind me of Dr King's words
"But in many ways the more dangerous form of racism isn’t that loud and stupid kind. It isn’t the kind that announces itself when it walks into the arena. It’s the quiet and subtle kind. The kind that almost hides itself in plain view. It’s the person who does and says all the “right” things in public: They’re perfectly friendly when they meet a person of color. They’re very polite. But in private? Well….. they sort of wish that everyone would stop making everything “about race” all the time.
It’s the kind of racism that can seem almost invisible — which is one of the main reasons why it’s allowed to persist.
And so, again, banning a guy like Russ’s heckler? To me, that’s the “easy” part. But if we’re really going to make a difference as a league, as a community, and as a country on this issue….. it’s like I said — I just think we need to push ourselves another step further.
First, by identifying that less visible, less obvious behavior as what it is: racism.
And then second, by denouncing that racism — actively, and at every level."
Nailed it.
It’s the kind of racism that can seem almost invisible — which is one of the main reasons why it’s allowed to persist.
And so, again, banning a guy like Russ’s heckler? To me, that’s the “easy” part. But if we’re really going to make a difference as a league, as a community, and as a country on this issue….. it’s like I said — I just think we need to push ourselves another step further.
First, by identifying that less visible, less obvious behavior as what it is: racism.
And then second, by denouncing that racism — actively, and at every level."
Nailed it.
There is one thing I'd quibble with him about - many white people didn't agree with slavery. He makes it sound like every single white person is "responsible" for what happened. What about all of the white soldiers that fought in the civil war? What about all of the white people that helped with the underground railroad and initiatives such as that?
Great stuff, I don't know if I've heard the "privileged argument" so well put.
Are you saying only the whites can explain stuff in writing well?!?
They’re perfectly friendly when they meet a person of color. They’re very polite. But in private? Well….. they sort of wish that everyone would stop making everything “about race” all the time.
This comes up on hrot quite a bit.
This comes up on hrot quite a bit.
By responsible I think he means responsible for seeing to it that the effects of slavery (and subsequent racist policies) are undone --and-- rectified.
Hence the mentions of better access to healthcare, affirmative action, police reform, etc... those are forms of being responsible for enacting solutions.
And I guess I’ve come to realize that when we talk about solutions to systemic racism — police reform, workplace diversity, affirmative action, better access to healthcare, even reparations? It’s not about guilt. It’s not about pointing fingers, or passing blame.
In effect, the today's white people aren't responsible for the slavery but they are responsible for making sure shit gets fixed. Again, this is why he makes the distinction between the feeling of guilt and the need for responsibility.
No, they didn't agree with it. And many of the people who didn't agree with it were just as racist as people who did believe in it. They just didn't think it was right for one human to own another. Society, at the time, was hugely racist, even if a big chunk didn't believe in slavery.
The bigger picture is spelled out in his article. The responsibility doesn't come in whether one is racist or not, the responsibility comes in whether someone tolerates, excuses or ignores racism. By calling it out, by not tolerating it, by giving examples of what the right behavior should be, that's taking responsibility and doing what one can to help overcome it. It's systemic, getting to system to change is what the goal needs to be. We can't change what's in every single person's heart, but we can change how society behaves and we can change what is acceptable. We need to make all forms of racism, both obvious and underlying, unacceptable.
As he alluded to, his guilt isn't over whether he is racist, his guilt is from not doing what he could in a particular instance is trying to overcome it.
I think you missed what he was saying there. It's not about being responsible for actual slavery (as in which white people are at fault from back then). He isn't saying all white people are at fault (then or now). He is saying white people should believe we still have work to do. At least that's my take on it.
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As white people, are we guilty for the sins of our forefathers? No, I don’t think so.
But are we responsible for them? Yes, I believe we are.
And I guess I’ve come to realize that when we talk about solutions to systemic racism — police reform, workplace diversity, affirmative action, better access to healthcare, even reparations? It’s not about guilt. It’s not about pointing fingers, or passing blame.
It’s about responsibility. It’s about understanding that when we’ve said the word “equality,” for generations, what we’ve really meant is equality for a certain group of people. It’s about understanding that when we’ve said the word “inequality,” for generations, what we’ve really meant is slavery, and its aftermath — which is still being felt to this day. It’s about understanding on a fundamental level that black people and white people, they still have it different in America. And that those differences come from an ugly history….. not some random divide.
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I think the nuanced answer is whether you approved of it or not, whether you fought against it or not, you still benefited from being born white and were/are granted additional privileges by virtue of the color of your skin for no other reason than you were born that way. Given that you were born into privilege, the argument is that it is your responsibility to 1) recognize and acknowledge that and 2) work hard to help reduce/eliminate that unfair disparity in your everyday life.
One must remember the president at that time, lambasted by southerners still, wanted blacks to start their own country in Central America.
Have I ever told you about my black friends....
This is what you got out of the article he penned???
Now I do think reperations is a stupid idea but I certainly agree we could do much much better with our govt institutions on bringing real equality to the table. You don't fix the future by focusing on the ills of the past (my personal opinion for most challenges in life), you survey the present field and make changes in areas that need to have changes made and then move forward and continue to make adjustments when/where necessary.
Exactly. And now that it gets called out when you’re actively racist, they’ve created almost code words that give them plausible deniability. And they get really pissed when you call them on it.
That's because they have a dream... that everyone will stop reminding them that racism is alive and well. See, Dr King is on their side.
Good article.
My only 'problem' is the sentence below. How do we make things right? I am all in on calling out subtle racism, which he suggests. I can, and do, do that. But how do I, white male, help change the crimes rates and educational problems of minorities? How do I help with minority unemployment rates and drug issues? These problems are obviously intertwined. It may seems simple to say I have the responsibility to help make things right, but how do we do it? Others also have the responsibility to make things better for themselves.
"And I believe it’s the responsibility of anyone on the privileged end of those inequalities to help make things right."
My only 'problem' is the sentence below. How do we make things right? I am all in on calling out subtle racism, which he suggests. I can, and do, do that. But how do I, white male, help change the crimes rates and educational problems of minorities? How do I help with minority unemployment rates and drug issues? These problems are obviously intertwined. It may seems simple to say I have the responsibility to help make things right, but how do we do it? Others also have the responsibility to make things better for themselves.
"And I believe it’s the responsibility of anyone on the privileged end of those inequalities to help make things right."
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Vote for people who take those issues seriously. Refuse to vote for people who call addressing those issues "reverse racism."
This is why I posted what I did on the hoops board about Tyler Cook. @Pepperman I know you and I disagree about TC and I respect your opinion from a basketball standpoint. I’m not calling you out specifically, but opinions and comments directed at TC in game threads or Cook threads as well as other social media seemed to have another angle. It wasn’t overt racism like calling him the N word, but it was similar to what Korver describes. Maybe I am completely wrong, but things said about Tyler Cook away from the floor seemed completely baseless and I have to question the motive for that. Again, I’m not saying you specifically, but certain comments had a racial angle IMO.
Racisim is on a downard trend even with this little Trump uptick and I believe we as society will continue to trend in a positive direction, that is certainly a good thing. More work to be done and I think a good place to start is a comprehensive reform of our criminal justice system and drug laws for all people. This one just feels like such a straight forward and easy fix. Then move on to HC and pop out a public medicare option on the exchange.
What is crazy about these two suggestions is that it not only helps black people it also helps white and brown and all other citizens of the US as well....it is just weird how that always seems to work for everyones benefit and not just the one group that it is primarily targeted towards.
What is crazy about these two suggestions is that it not only helps black people it also helps white and brown and all other citizens of the US as well....it is just weird how that always seems to work for everyones benefit and not just the one group that it is primarily targeted towards.
I agree and read a lot of those threads in a very similar way as you jelly. Now there were games when TC seemed totally out of it (I think Bruno destroyed his confidence for a few weeks after that Maryland game) but the way things were being written about him, much of that came from very ugly parts of peoples humanity.
But they tolerated it.
Just like when I call people out on here for racist/bigoted comments, they get all pissypants about it. They blabber on about "white guilt"; not "taking responsibility" like Kyle explains here.
As I recall, you're one of them.....maybe I'm wrong on that. But if I'm not, maybe it's time to step up your game, like Kyle Korver is asking you to do. Will you?
Or, will you just move aside and "blend into the white guy crowd", and pretend racism and bigotry aren't a big deal.
No, but since you apparently didn't read the post I responded to, I guess I can't be offended that you drew that conclusion either.
Most of what Korver is saying is simply common sense. The Westbrook situation in Utah is an obvious problem and based on what I've heard in radio interviews and such, Utah is the most likely venue for that type of idiocy. I had never even heard of the guy (Thabo?) that got his leg broken during an arrest in NYC but that seems to be pretty incredible to me in that it could even happen.
I think it's hard to figure out where to start for most people. Racism is such a complex issue that it seems unwinnable on the larger scale at an individual level. Even the best intentioned have jobs, families, their own problems, etc. - so many just default to following a good heart, treating people like they'd want to be treated, and do what they can for the cause here or there and hope that's enough. Their hope is that activists who focus on the issue every waking hour can do the heavy lifting and figure it out. I also think people get "cause fatigue" which lulls them into complacency. If you tried to be "actively" fighting for every injustice out there - you'd go nuts. Not saying they aren't good causes, there just are a lot of them out there anymore.
No matter the race, you take a group of bad kids and most will have a bad home life.
Handing money out will not help.
You need before and after school programs that get this kids bathed fed homework completed and entertained.
Likely need it during weekends and summer also.
Handing money out will not help.
You need before and after school programs that get this kids bathed fed homework completed and entertained.
Likely need it during weekends and summer also.
OK, but the question I'd posed, was "will you step up your game to call other privileged white people out when they are engaging in bigoted, racist behavior"?
I've had countless MAGA-folk on here decry my willingness to call out their behavior as "just pushing the white guilt mantra". Kyle is pretty clear that this isn't what it's about.
Will you take the responsibility that goes with your privilege? Not simply calling out the "easy stuff" like a guy at a BB game, but the more insidious comments that are routine on here?
Or, like Kyle claims, will you just fade into the noise WITH the racists and bigots, because it's easier to tolerate them than it is to stand up and stand out against them?
Going to need specific examples not just grand statements. Typically when a huge chunk of people agree with “opinion” nothing much was real said.
So, 'no'; you'll just fade in with the racist white people and "let it slide".
We are all members of a community, voters, role models, employees and/or employers, perhaps parents, uncles, or aunts, etc...
Not only should you vote for people who make true equality an unequivocal must-have in all local, state, and federal primaries and general elections but you can also be mindful as a role model teaching kids about equality, empathy, etc..., and at work making sure folks get a fair shake and resumes aren't deprioritized bc the name at the top isn't generic, volunteering in the community, talking with friends who don't 'get it' so that they can learn and begin doing all of this as well, etc...
We've seen facebook and the like propagate hate, disinformation, and division for years -- all done on a person to person basis. The exact same concept can be used by each of us to spread a bit of what Korver is talking about.
So yes, you have not only the responsibility but the means (and if you're on HROT, you also have the time)
So no discussion ? No examples? No proposed solutions ?
So this is like Global Warming? Just say “I agree” and drive home in my SUV to my big house with a big boat and fly somewhere.
