Problem solving

[gohawks50]

But to the point of the OP, a million hammers and a million guns will do nothing. The root of the issue is a troubled person.

This thread is not a gun control debate, it is a problem solving debate. Mass shootings was one example listed, you seem to want to latch on to that. I already posted that I would support your efforts to repeal the 2nd so we could approach the mass shooting from that direction too. We would still need to solve the troubled person portion, 400,000,000 guns will not go away in our lifetimes.

Yes, troubled people are a big problem and should be addressed. However, we all make bad decisions in the heat of the moment. The availability of a gun has lead to many suicides, arguments going too far, road rage killings, etc.

I'm not for a total gun ban, but everyone needs to admit the number of guns in homes does impact the number of deaths from guns.

 

[JMNSHO]

Would it be because the hammers are making them hot people or that people have mental issues?

People are prone to anger and violence. I believe our human impulsiveness is not effectively calibrated to something so easy and detached as a gun is as a killing tool. It’s just too easy and detached.

I have killed animals hunting, fishing, and raising chickens. It’s hard sometimes. Sometimes it is actually work to kill. People don’t often do hard things impulsively. I think guns make our traditionally
difficult-to-carry-out impulses, much lighter work. What to do about that, I’m not sure.

 

[Flie]

Data. Trends.

Feelings. Emotion. Mah guns!

 

[JupiterHawk]

And when you talk about problem-solving. Most of the right lack empathy and lack the ability to compromise. Two big topics are gun control and abortion. They are unwilling to compromise on either issue. It's all or nothing.

 

[Huey Grey]

When I went to graduate school, I was lucky to get a professor who taught me how to think rather than just focusing on the outcome of Harvard Business School case studies. The emphasis was on peeling back the onion to solve the actual underlying problem rather than simply treating symptoms. We as a country seem to favor wanting laws to treat symptoms, and we vote for politicians that want to make laws to treat symptoms.

We have wars on drugs and poverty. Our solution for both over the last 50+ years has been to throw money at both. We've done very little to solve the underlying problems.

We have mass shootings, and the proposed solution always seems to be gun control. A gun is an inanimate object. There are an estimated 400 million guns in the US. The number of legally possessed guns used in mass shootings is incredibly tiny, and we already have laws against murder, and against felons possessing guns. The underlying problem isn't guns, it's people who want to kill other people.

We have illegal aliens flooding across the southern border. The immediate response by some is immigration reform. What, exactly would that accomplish? We would still have the same problem, just on a bigger scale. We already have immigration laws that aren't being enforced. The problem isn't existing laws, it's enforcement of those laws. Want to add work permits, expand green cards, expand quotas? OK, that's fine, but that doesn't solve people crossing the border illegally, it just changes the number.

Everything has become incredibly political. Intelligent people get sucked into how to win the political argument rather than coming up with solutions that actually solve problems. Intelligent people get sucked into how to defend treatments based on party lines rather than peeling back the onion another layer.

I get criticized a lot by people on both sides of the political spectrum here. I'm fine with that. I'm not going to follow the crowd, and I'm going to think for myself. Sometimes I'll be wrong, and I'll look inside, and admit it. I'll try to base my views and decisions based on facts, and if the facts change or new facts come to light, my opinion my might change too.

Peace, everyone.

I'd like to take a stab at drugs and poverty. If we want to get serious about both we have to fix systemic racism in this country, stop treating drugs as crimes, restore unions in most work places, and tax rich people more.

The scales are wildly tilted towards the rich. What we need to be doing is tilt it towards poor people.

 

[fivecardstud14]

Sammy Sosa

Well come on don't stop with him. Give me Jerry Hairston, Glenallen Hill & Todd Hundley too.

 

[MitchLL]

If people are serious about reducing gun violence in Merica, you start with gun reform.

It really is that simple.

 

[Jan Itor]

Well come on don't stop with him. Give me Jerry Hairston, Glenallen Hill & Todd Hundley too.

I was wondering if you were a Cubs fan and left him out.

Of course there are more

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

There is room for legitimate discussion on gun control. However, if one insists guns are merely tools and the number/availability of guns is not an issue, then there’s really no hope for a legitimate discussion.

 

[theVoicefromtheTomb]

I would argue that most guns are not manufactured to kill People.

he said

primary purpose of a gun is to kill

dont be misleading

I would argue that a gun is not manufactured to murder people. They are being used for the wrong purpose

please explain the justification of building guns like an AR 15 if not to kill people

 

[Formerly Rockymtnole]

he said

primary purpose of a gun is to kill

dont be misleading

please explain the justification of building guns like an AR 15 if not to kill people

Explanations you will hear:

Coyote control
Shooting varmints
Unloading hundreds of rounds at old cans of Busch Lite
I don’t need a justification you commie

 

[General Tso]

When I went to graduate school, I was lucky to get a professor who taught me how to think rather than just focusing on the outcome of Harvard Business School case studies. The emphasis was on peeling back the onion to solve the actual underlying problem rather than simply treating symptoms. We as a country seem to favor wanting laws to treat symptoms, and we vote for politicians that want to make laws to treat symptoms.

We have wars on drugs and poverty. Our solution for both over the last 50+ years has been to throw money at both. We've done very little to solve the underlying problems.

We have mass shootings, and the proposed solution always seems to be gun control. A gun is an inanimate object. There are an estimated 400 million guns in the US. The number of legally possessed guns used in mass shootings is incredibly tiny, and we already have laws against murder, and against felons possessing guns. The underlying problem isn't guns, it's people who want to kill other people.

We have illegal aliens flooding across the southern border. The immediate response by some is immigration reform. What, exactly would that accomplish? We would still have the same problem, just on a bigger scale. We already have immigration laws that aren't being enforced. The problem isn't existing laws, it's enforcement of those laws. Want to add work permits, expand green cards, expand quotas? OK, that's fine, but that doesn't solve people crossing the border illegally, it just changes the number.

Everything has become incredibly political. Intelligent people get sucked into how to win the political argument rather than coming up with solutions that actually solve problems. Intelligent people get sucked into how to defend treatments based on party lines rather than peeling back the onion another layer.

I get criticized a lot by people on both sides of the political spectrum here. I'm fine with that. I'm not going to follow the crowd, and I'm going to think for myself. Sometimes I'll be wrong, and I'll look inside, and admit it. I'll try to base my views and decisions based on facts, and if the facts change or new facts come to light, my opinion my might change too.

Peace, everyone.

Is very bad to steal Jobu's rum. Is very bad.

 

[gohawks50]

I would argue that a gun is not manufactured to murder people. They are being used for the wrong purpose

So what's your argument? Why do most people purchase guns? What is the purpose of guns in your opnion?

 

[ihhawk]

So what's your argument? Why do most people purchase guns? What is the purpose of guns in your opnion?

Hunting, target shooting.

Some may just do it because they can

 

[gohawks50]

Hunting, target shooting.

Some may just do it because they can

Hunting is killing. I'm not saying that's wrong, but it reinforces my point. If it's just about target shooting why not use a BB gun or a paint ball gun. As far as just because you can that isn't a purpose, it's an excuse.

 

[DFSNOLE]

I would argue that most guns are not manufactured to kill People.

What exactly are handguns, military type weapons made to kill? How many hunters use them regularly?

 

[billanole]

I would argue that most guns are not manufactured to kill People.

Most guns being purchased today are designed to kill. Single shot .410s and .22s are not all the rage.
Glocks and ARs are huge in the market. Are they manufactured to kill people?

 

[Gimmered]

Most guns being purchased today are designed to kill. Single shot .410s and .22s are not all the rage.
Glocks and ARs are huge in the market. Are they manufactured to kill people?

So, as indicated in this thread, most would say that guns are the root of the problem with mass shootings. The second amendment does in-fact protect our rights to keep a bear arms, including but not limited to military style weapons, so the first step to solving the root of the problem would be repealing the second amendment.

 

[CLUB215]

When I went to graduate school, I was lucky to get a professor who taught me how to think rather than just focusing on the outcome of Harvard Business School case studies. The emphasis was on peeling back the onion to solve the actual underlying problem rather than simply treating symptoms. We as a country seem to favor wanting laws to treat symptoms, and we vote for politicians that want to make laws to treat symptoms.

We have wars on drugs and poverty. Our solution for both over the last 50+ years has been to throw money at both. We've done very little to solve the underlying problems.

We have mass shootings, and the proposed solution always seems to be gun control. A gun is an inanimate object. There are an estimated 400 million guns in the US. The number of legally possessed guns used in mass shootings is incredibly tiny, and we already have laws against murder, and against felons possessing guns. The underlying problem isn't guns, it's people who want to kill other people.

We have illegal aliens flooding across the southern border. The immediate response by some is immigration reform. What, exactly would that accomplish? We would still have the same problem, just on a bigger scale. We already have immigration laws that aren't being enforced. The problem isn't existing laws, it's enforcement of those laws. Want to add work permits, expand green cards, expand quotas? OK, that's fine, but that doesn't solve people crossing the border illegally, it just changes the number.

Everything has become incredibly political. Intelligent people get sucked into how to win the political argument rather than coming up with solutions that actually solve problems. Intelligent people get sucked into how to defend treatments based on party lines rather than peeling back the onion another layer.

I get criticized a lot by people on both sides of the political spectrum here. I'm fine with that. I'm not going to follow the crowd, and I'm going to think for myself. Sometimes I'll be wrong, and I'll look inside, and admit it. I'll try to base my views and decisions based on facts, and if the facts change or new facts come to light, my opinion my might change too.

Peace, everyone.

Cool

 

[Obviously Oblivious]

...and he's correct on that point. We've had more guns than adult population since...forever, but the violence is culture and mostly drug related...

Not mostly gang related. Estimates over the years are that between 10-15% of annual homicides are gang related. While it’s too many it’s certainly not most.

 

[gohawks50]

So, as indicated in this thread, most would say that guns are the root of the problem with mass shootings. The second amendment does in-fact protect our rights to keep a bear arms, including but not limited to military style weapons, so the first step to solving the root of the problem would be repealing the second amendment.

My posts in this thread were in regard to the OP's claim that guns are a symptom of mass killings. They are not a symptom anymore than fast food and sugar are symptoms of obesity or diabetes. They are factors that increase the likelihood of bad outcomes. You can't ignore the gun situation when talking about mass shootings anymore than you can ignore the impact of processed foods on the health of Americans.

 

[billanole]

So, as indicated in this thread, most would say that guns are the root of the problem with mass shootings. The second amendment does in-fact protect our rights to keep a bear arms, including but not limited to military style weapons, so the first step to solving the root of the problem would be repealing the second amendment.

That is one direction to take, but one with a very low level of possibility.

 

[Gimmered]

My posts in this thread were in regard to the OP's claim that guns are a symptom of mass killings. They are not a symptom anymore than fast food and sugar are symptoms of obesity or diabetes. They are factors that increase the likelihood of bad outcomes. You can't ignore the gun situation when talking about mass shootings anymore than you can ignore the impact of processed foods on the health of Americans.

And I mostly agree with you. Although, I feel the people are the real root of the problem, guns are a factor, just as fast food a sugary drinks are a factor in obesity.

 

[ft254]

But to the point of the OP, a million hammers and a million guns will do nothing. The root of the issue is a troubled person.

This thread is not a gun control debate, it is a problem solving debate. Mass shootings was one example listed, you seem to want to latch on to that. I already posted that I would support your efforts to repeal the 2nd so we could approach the mass shooting from that direction too. We would still need to solve the troubled person portion, 400,000,000 guns will not go away in our lifetimes.

It is not a troubled person issue, It's a violent society issue fueled by a flood of weapons triggered by an extremist agenda perpetrated by the NRA.

I grew up in the rural environment, hunting as did tens of millions of us. Did any of us hear any of this 2A bullshit? It wasn't until the NRA and the political movement saw the financial aspect. Who thought gun owners would lose rights until the shrill assholes started screaming. It was a manufactured crisis that ballooned into a nation flooded with weapons and ammunition that invariably finds its way to the sort "decent citizens" must defend themselves against.

Now we have to fortify our schools like GD combat zones. The blame rests with the freaking idiots that armed every Tom, Dick and Harry.