PTL 7/16
- Thread starter StormHawk42
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Stats are up, Fleming shot 8-20 from two and 7-13 from three. Was 5-9 from the line. His team was missing Matt Gattens and Brady Ellingson, so as to higher level guys it was he and Washpun of UNI, who scored 32. I didn't count up his shots but it looked like he took quite a few to get his points.
So many Hawkeyes missed it seems like something might have been up? But that's the PTL...just more than usual.
So many Hawkeyes missed it seems like something might have been up? But that's the PTL...just more than usual.
42 pts on 33 shots isn't too bad. He was 45% from the floor, which isn't bad for a perimeter player, and was 54% from 3, which is fantastic. I always say I'm not a big proponent of shooting tons of threes (I much prefer lots and lots of dunks, especially at the end of fast breaks), but if someone can hit 54% from the arc, I want him to shoot 13 of them every game.
Fleming was on fire early, hitting maybe 5-7 from deep, many of them well behind the line. He cooled off from then on. He has great range and shoots it effortlessly. He also played next to no defense though. He was almost always the last guy back on defense. His team had just 6 players though and I'm not sure he got any rest at all.
As mentioned, several hawkeyes didn't make the trip for whatever reason. Fleming was the only freshman to play. Jok, Jones, Hutton, Ellingson were all no-shows.
Is anyone else concerned at all about Jones? Hasn't he missed 2 or 3 PTL nights in a row?
Uhl has definitely put on some muscle, Uthoff on the other hand, has not. Baer has a nice, quick release on his shot, but he is so thin.
The 7:30 game almost didn't happen, as Hutton's team only had 4 players. Eventually a few guys from the earlier games suited up for them. I don't think Randy was very happy, and I can't blame him.
On an side note, the guy who coached Settles' team and also the second game was a complete idiot/jerk.
I agree that unless something changes, the Waterloo games might as well not happen.
As mentioned, several hawkeyes didn't make the trip for whatever reason. Fleming was the only freshman to play. Jok, Jones, Hutton, Ellingson were all no-shows.
Is anyone else concerned at all about Jones? Hasn't he missed 2 or 3 PTL nights in a row?
Uhl has definitely put on some muscle, Uthoff on the other hand, has not. Baer has a nice, quick release on his shot, but he is so thin.
The 7:30 game almost didn't happen, as Hutton's team only had 4 players. Eventually a few guys from the earlier games suited up for them. I don't think Randy was very happy, and I can't blame him.
On an side note, the guy who coached Settles' team and also the second game was a complete idiot/jerk.
I agree that unless something changes, the Waterloo games might as well not happen.
I've never cared for the idea of playing games in Waterloo as part of the "deal" with UNI. I also don't care for this rule that only two players from a team can play together, but all players must either live or go to school within ninety miles of the leagues location. Seems pretty beneficial to large city colleges and rural areas are going to struggle to find players.
Here's is what I'd LIKE to see if I had my way.
1) Big Time. Find a location roughly Midway from Drake, State, Northern Iowa and Iowa, you're now within 90 miles of all four. Get an agreement with the schools that their guys will participate. Eight teams, ten guys each. Roughly 50+ would be from Division One Iowa Schools! And I can well imagine that finding around 25-30 other players would be a breeze.
2) Small Time. Stay in North Liberty or the Iowa City area, tell UNI they are welcome but not that special. Hey, even many of their players live closer to Iowa City anyway. Would still like to see eight teams, but meanwhile petition the NCAA to explain why their rules benefit large urban leagues? Time to consider population size or maybe Larsen can find a lawyer somewhere to argue the point?
Anyway, small time. What makes it tough is the best high school kids are all playing in the AAU. But when this thing got started years ago many former Hawkeyes were playing, maybe we need more of that again? Yeah, the competition would be less, but at least maybe guys would show up to play.
These are just my thoughts. I have heard some smaller schools have a league of their own in Cedar Rapids? Who knows, maybe Iowa should approach that league and see what it's all about?
Here's is what I'd LIKE to see if I had my way.
1) Big Time. Find a location roughly Midway from Drake, State, Northern Iowa and Iowa, you're now within 90 miles of all four. Get an agreement with the schools that their guys will participate. Eight teams, ten guys each. Roughly 50+ would be from Division One Iowa Schools! And I can well imagine that finding around 25-30 other players would be a breeze.
2) Small Time. Stay in North Liberty or the Iowa City area, tell UNI they are welcome but not that special. Hey, even many of their players live closer to Iowa City anyway. Would still like to see eight teams, but meanwhile petition the NCAA to explain why their rules benefit large urban leagues? Time to consider population size or maybe Larsen can find a lawyer somewhere to argue the point?
Anyway, small time. What makes it tough is the best high school kids are all playing in the AAU. But when this thing got started years ago many former Hawkeyes were playing, maybe we need more of that again? Yeah, the competition would be less, but at least maybe guys would show up to play.These are just my thoughts. I have heard some smaller schools have a league of their own in Cedar Rapids? Who knows, maybe Iowa should approach that league and see what it's all about?
Takes too long to get to Waterloo on a moped. Plus who wants to get shot at when they get there? I don't blame them for missing those games..
I like your #1. and would add, make bus transportation mandatory for the players (to insure their safety) Provide safe bus transportation to and from games.I've never cared for the idea of playing games in Waterloo as part of the "deal" with UNI. I also don't care for this rule that only two players from a team can play together, but all players must either live or go to school within ninety miles of the leagues location. Seems pretty beneficial to large city colleges and rural areas are going to struggle to find players.
Here's is what I'd LIKE to see if I had my way.
1) Big Time. Find a location roughly Midway from Drake, State, Northern Iowa and Iowa, you're now within 90 miles of all four. Get an agreement with the schools that their guys will participate. Eight teams, ten guys each. Roughly 50+ would be from Division One Iowa Schools! And I can well imagine that finding around 25-30 other players would be a breeze.
2) Small Time. Stay in North Liberty or the Iowa City area, tell UNI they are welcome but not that special. Hey, even many of their players live closer to Iowa City anyway. Would still like to see eight teams, but meanwhile petition the NCAA to explain why their rules benefit large urban leagues? Time to consider population size or maybe Larsen can find a lawyer somewhere to argue the point?
These are just my thoughts. I have heard some smaller schools have a league of their own in Cedar Rapids? Who knows, maybe Iowa should approach that league and see what it's all about?
Would the PTL sponsors need to provide the bus transportation? Just thinking maybe since it's not an Iowa event, there may be an NCAA issue with the University paying for that. I like that idea BTW, it would bump up the level of competition another notch.
I was thinking M-town as well. Even though I hate the place. Could use the high school gym or MCC. The Y has two courts but nearly enough seating for those games.
Or even Grinnell, maybe something down there.
Or even Grinnell, maybe something down there.
I love the idea of Grinnell. Almost exactly the same distance from Waterloo and Ames and Iowa City, all under 70 miles. And Drake is even a little closer. As to where, if it could benefit the college, perfect. As to transportation?
1) NCAA, we want an exception to allow for a bus for each school! No more favoritism to urban colleges!
2) Ok, we figure out some other way because it would be imperative to have transportation for the four schools.
Next, please play four games in one gym. Would take about six hours and I'm camping out to watch as much as possible.
1) NCAA, we want an exception to allow for a bus for each school! No more favoritism to urban colleges!
2) Ok, we figure out some other way because it would be imperative to have transportation for the four schools.
Next, please play four games in one gym. Would take about six hours and I'm camping out to watch as much as possible.
It really is too bad that the games in Waterloo aren't getting the turnout like the ones in NL. There was a great crowd last night. Kinda sucks that the teams weren't full strength but the game I watched was fantastic. Can't complain when a team hits a 3 with three seconds left to send it to OT.
Cool your jets, guys. If you think 55 miles to Waterloo is keeping Iowa participation down, do you really think 90 mile bus trips are going to help?
What you all are missing is the recent rule change allowing coaching staffs to coach players during the summer. Brady Ellingson was sick. If he worked out that day, Fran and company couldn't give a damn if he made Prime Time. And, if he wasn't well enough to work out, he wasn't well enough to play.
As for a league of only Hawkeyes in North Liberty, that's a waste of time. They already knock heads in practice a couple days a week in work outs.
UNI is a great addition. Their record over the last 8 years I'd imagine is the best of the 4 in state schools. Panther players are legit. Iowa benefits big time from their participation. The venue in Waterloo is better than North Liberty, and Hawkeye fans close to Black Hawk county get to see the players, which sells tickets during the season.
Hawkeyes aren't missing games because they are in Warerloo. They'd miss games if they were in the Field House. Clemmons was back home in Michigan last week. Maybe Jones has an injury Fran sees no reason to disclose. Hutton got a cut over his brow Sunday, and missed the last 15 minutes. He may have stitches for all we know, and could be done for the PTL season.
Games aren't less attended in Waterloo. There should have been a forfeit Sunday in North Liberty, but UNI's Arias Austin, whose team had a bye, suited up as Basabe. Basabe hasn't been seen for a while, and Gatens is in Chicago playing in a pro try out circuit. So much for getting more ex Hawkeyes as the answer.
It's an NCAA rule that no more than 2 scholarship players from the same school can be on a team if the league has other D1 schools participating, or then you'd have Louisville vs Kentucky in July.
Jeremy Morgan missed the last 18 minutes with a bloody nose last night, courtesy of Uthoff, who unlike reported by a previous poster, is heavier and stronger, but 210 to 220 isn't as easy to spot as Uhl's 200 to 215. Those two were going at it, personally. No reason to add Bulldogs & Cyclones and more potential mayhem.
As for Coe, Cornell, Mt Mercy, Kirkwood, and Augustana players, their coaches know where the PTL is. They see no benefit to their guys getting hurt going up against D1 talent. Probably because years ago, they did.
Upper Iowa may have sent players in the past, but that coach is at Wayne State, Nebraska now, and he has 2 players in the league, Jacks & Wentzien.
As for the coach someone thought was a pain, it was probably Settles brother in law. He's a farmer from around Swedesburg and is a first time PTL head coach. Randy Larson was begging for coaches. Not even sure if Brendan Unkrich played high school.
Settles team played at 6, & Unkrich's at 7:30, so, Coach Settles likely drew the long straw and didn't make the jaunt from Henry county.
Don't forget, this was the last regular season game. Playoffs are next week.
College players today play more basketball all year round than they did in the mid '80's when the PTL was created. If anything, they actually need less. Not more.
It used to be the PTL was the only thing the players had in the summer. The times have changed. Fran and the staff think the PTL is nice, but it's obviously not a priority. If these guys were getting in trouble with Fran for missing, do you think they'd blow it off?
What you all are missing is the recent rule change allowing coaching staffs to coach players during the summer. Brady Ellingson was sick. If he worked out that day, Fran and company couldn't give a damn if he made Prime Time. And, if he wasn't well enough to work out, he wasn't well enough to play.
As for a league of only Hawkeyes in North Liberty, that's a waste of time. They already knock heads in practice a couple days a week in work outs.
UNI is a great addition. Their record over the last 8 years I'd imagine is the best of the 4 in state schools. Panther players are legit. Iowa benefits big time from their participation. The venue in Waterloo is better than North Liberty, and Hawkeye fans close to Black Hawk county get to see the players, which sells tickets during the season.
Hawkeyes aren't missing games because they are in Warerloo. They'd miss games if they were in the Field House. Clemmons was back home in Michigan last week. Maybe Jones has an injury Fran sees no reason to disclose. Hutton got a cut over his brow Sunday, and missed the last 15 minutes. He may have stitches for all we know, and could be done for the PTL season.
Games aren't less attended in Waterloo. There should have been a forfeit Sunday in North Liberty, but UNI's Arias Austin, whose team had a bye, suited up as Basabe. Basabe hasn't been seen for a while, and Gatens is in Chicago playing in a pro try out circuit. So much for getting more ex Hawkeyes as the answer.
It's an NCAA rule that no more than 2 scholarship players from the same school can be on a team if the league has other D1 schools participating, or then you'd have Louisville vs Kentucky in July.
Jeremy Morgan missed the last 18 minutes with a bloody nose last night, courtesy of Uthoff, who unlike reported by a previous poster, is heavier and stronger, but 210 to 220 isn't as easy to spot as Uhl's 200 to 215. Those two were going at it, personally. No reason to add Bulldogs & Cyclones and more potential mayhem.
As for Coe, Cornell, Mt Mercy, Kirkwood, and Augustana players, their coaches know where the PTL is. They see no benefit to their guys getting hurt going up against D1 talent. Probably because years ago, they did.
Upper Iowa may have sent players in the past, but that coach is at Wayne State, Nebraska now, and he has 2 players in the league, Jacks & Wentzien.
As for the coach someone thought was a pain, it was probably Settles brother in law. He's a farmer from around Swedesburg and is a first time PTL head coach. Randy Larson was begging for coaches. Not even sure if Brendan Unkrich played high school.
Settles team played at 6, & Unkrich's at 7:30, so, Coach Settles likely drew the long straw and didn't make the jaunt from Henry county.
Don't forget, this was the last regular season game. Playoffs are next week.
College players today play more basketball all year round than they did in the mid '80's when the PTL was created. If anything, they actually need less. Not more.
It used to be the PTL was the only thing the players had in the summer. The times have changed. Fran and the staff think the PTL is nice, but it's obviously not a priority. If these guys were getting in trouble with Fran for missing, do you think they'd blow it off?
And adding the Drake guys and other DSM guys the league would be improved with possibly 8 teams. I'm sure Larson will be all over this.
Yeah, first off he reads this board everyday.
It would be cool for fans of the game though.
Just for the sake of accuracy....the league must be within 100 air miles of the student-athlete's legal residence at the end of the last academic year or the school where they last attended as a regular student.
If no league exists within the 100 air mile radius they may participate in a the closest league to them. What has been stopping the ISU and Drake guys from competing is the Capital City league.
To add, there were a ton of posters on this forum who complained when Jacobson didn't play his players in the ptl. The trips should go both ways if both teams are playing in the league.
And aren't the facilities in Waterloo better than NL? Just asking because I havent been to either of them
And aren't the facilities in Waterloo better than NL? Just asking because I havent been to either of them
There is a league in West Des Moines that has Drake ISU and anyone else from around there. I think it was started when TD coached at Drake, just like he started PTL. They play at Southwoods school, which is the freshman school for Valley HS.
DanL,
Yes, Grinnell would be 15 minutes shorter for Iowa, and almost the same distance for UNI as North Liberty, but, it would be a commute, for all schools, all the time.
GMAPs says Carver Hawkeye to Grinnell College is 66 miles and an an hour and 7 minute drive without traffic.
Carver to the Cedar Valley Sports Plex in Waterloo is 81 miles, and an hour and 23 minutes without traffic.
Currently there are 4 regular season PTL dates in North Liberty, and 3 in Waterloo.
However, all 3 playoff dates are in North Liberty, so, 7 of 10 dates are in Johnson County.
The reason Ben Jacobson insisted on more games up north is the drive time counts against the limited hours a week the NCAA allows for summer work outs. It wasn't fair that the practice time he got with his players was significantly less than what Fran got with his, since 4 hours a week were spent on Highway 380.
There is no way Giacoletti, Prohm, Jacobson and McCaffery are going to all have their teams travel all the time, twice a week.
And you can't make PTL mandatory. Summer school classes, lifting weights, and skill workouts already are. School begins August 24th. Dorm moving in begins August 17th. Basketball players get 3 days around Christmas if they aren't in a tournament, so, other than a week for Spring Break, most are on campus from late August to mid May. They get mid May to mid June off, then take summer school and work out and play PTL until July 30th if they are in the championship game. So, in a 52 week calendar year, 44 weeks are spent in Iowa City.
If you are going to recruit national players, you have to give them a chance to return to Michigan and Ohio and Tennessee and ... Summer is a time to get stronger. It's not a time to wear the players out mentally, and if they miss a PTL game or three, no biggie.
Posters on this site wanting a return of the glory days of the PTL remind me of Grandpa complaining when candy bars were a quarter, because he remembered a time when they were a nickel. The PTL still serves a purpose, as it's good for players to face D1 competition that isn't a teammate, but, it isn't the God send to Fran in 2015 that it was to Dr. Tom in 1985.
We all couldn't wait for Prime Time this year so we could get a glimpse of the 5 freshmen, 1 JC, and Ellingson and Baer. We got to see 7 of them. Each has a hole in his game, but each has strengths that bode well for the future, both immediate, and long term. The PTL is serving its purpose. No super tinkering is needed. Just recalibrated expectations of where it fits in today's landscape compared to the glory days.
Yes, Grinnell would be 15 minutes shorter for Iowa, and almost the same distance for UNI as North Liberty, but, it would be a commute, for all schools, all the time.
GMAPs says Carver Hawkeye to Grinnell College is 66 miles and an an hour and 7 minute drive without traffic.
Carver to the Cedar Valley Sports Plex in Waterloo is 81 miles, and an hour and 23 minutes without traffic.
Currently there are 4 regular season PTL dates in North Liberty, and 3 in Waterloo.
However, all 3 playoff dates are in North Liberty, so, 7 of 10 dates are in Johnson County.
The reason Ben Jacobson insisted on more games up north is the drive time counts against the limited hours a week the NCAA allows for summer work outs. It wasn't fair that the practice time he got with his players was significantly less than what Fran got with his, since 4 hours a week were spent on Highway 380.
There is no way Giacoletti, Prohm, Jacobson and McCaffery are going to all have their teams travel all the time, twice a week.
And you can't make PTL mandatory. Summer school classes, lifting weights, and skill workouts already are. School begins August 24th. Dorm moving in begins August 17th. Basketball players get 3 days around Christmas if they aren't in a tournament, so, other than a week for Spring Break, most are on campus from late August to mid May. They get mid May to mid June off, then take summer school and work out and play PTL until July 30th if they are in the championship game. So, in a 52 week calendar year, 44 weeks are spent in Iowa City.
If you are going to recruit national players, you have to give them a chance to return to Michigan and Ohio and Tennessee and ... Summer is a time to get stronger. It's not a time to wear the players out mentally, and if they miss a PTL game or three, no biggie.
Posters on this site wanting a return of the glory days of the PTL remind me of Grandpa complaining when candy bars were a quarter, because he remembered a time when they were a nickel. The PTL still serves a purpose, as it's good for players to face D1 competition that isn't a teammate, but, it isn't the God send to Fran in 2015 that it was to Dr. Tom in 1985.
We all couldn't wait for Prime Time this year so we could get a glimpse of the 5 freshmen, 1 JC, and Ellingson and Baer. We got to see 7 of them. Each has a hole in his game, but each has strengths that bode well for the future, both immediate, and long term. The PTL is serving its purpose. No super tinkering is needed. Just recalibrated expectations of where it fits in today's landscape compared to the glory days.
If you are right about that than I'm all for my "Small Time" plan and let UNI start their own league. It would be worth it to look into that league I've heard of in Cedar Rapids for smaller schools and see what is going on with it. The PTL isn't and hasn't been much more than a place to play with just a little more organization that a pick up game anyway.
As to some of the rest, I didn't say "mandatory", I said the schools would agree that their players would participate. I understand players will miss some games.
You make some good points though, as always a good read! Thanks.
Do you have a link to this? I have not seen that in any of the NCAA documentation re: these leagues that I have reviewed. It is not a school sponsored activity so am not sure why it would count against their practice time.
And if travel time counts, I assume the games count as well? And how do they determine how long a game is? Is it clock time, or real time from start to finish?
Is what Randy Larson announced verbally at the beginning of the PTL season last year before the first game when he gave his annual, NCAA mandated summer league talk / public welcome to the players and fans and goes over the rules.
I could have misunderstood the NCAA rules part I suppose, and maybe it was just a polite concession the league founder had to make to get the Panthers to participate. Jacobson had yanked UNI the year the NCAA allowed coaching contact in the summer, but must have realized you can only do so much banging into each other, and re-opened talks with Larson. Also, the Cedar Valley Sports Complex being brand new likely had something to do with it.
I don't think the local small college coaches want their players going near D1 bodies. Coe, Cornell, Mt Mercy @ Kirkwood have nobody on any of the rosters despite Larson sending out an all points bulletin asking for tryouts. The reality is, they are better getting 35 minutes a game against their own talent level, than 5 minutes a half with a sprinkling of D1 talent on the floor, since coaches tend to rest the better players around the same time.
Thanks for the kind words, DanL
I am sure the most distressed guy is Larson. I'd imagine the playoffs this Thursday will have fewer no shows though.
I could have misunderstood the NCAA rules part I suppose, and maybe it was just a polite concession the league founder had to make to get the Panthers to participate. Jacobson had yanked UNI the year the NCAA allowed coaching contact in the summer, but must have realized you can only do so much banging into each other, and re-opened talks with Larson. Also, the Cedar Valley Sports Complex being brand new likely had something to do with it.
I don't think the local small college coaches want their players going near D1 bodies. Coe, Cornell, Mt Mercy @ Kirkwood have nobody on any of the rosters despite Larson sending out an all points bulletin asking for tryouts. The reality is, they are better getting 35 minutes a game against their own talent level, than 5 minutes a half with a sprinkling of D1 talent on the floor, since coaches tend to rest the better players around the same time.
Thanks for the kind words, DanL
I am sure the most distressed guy is Larson. I'd imagine the playoffs this Thursday will have fewer no shows though.
No Summer League has to be competitive. Simply a place for guys to stretch their legs. The competition happens naturally. And the results are simply talking points. The B1G is where it truly happens (everyone knows this).
I, too, get excited when players achieve something unachievable beyond the current scope. It's why I visit this site daily.
I, too, get excited when players achieve something unachievable beyond the current scope. It's why I visit this site daily.
1BigGalloot,
If you're the guy I think you are, we've talked at the PTL in Waterloo the first time the games were played there this year. You commented on two biggest points I tried to make in my earlier post. I guess I could/should have said that I couldn't see any weight gains in Uthoff while I could in Uhl.
My biggest concern, which is hopefully unfounded, is over Dale Jones. One would think if he played any PTL nights it would certainly be the games played in Waterloo, his home town. I just hope he isn't injured, but if he is, hopefully it is minor. I haven't read or heard any rumors so maybe I'm making something out of nothing.
Anyway, the best part of the PTL is it provides a chance to see the newcomers for the first time. When they're not playing, for whatever reason, it's disappointing but I'm sure they and Fran know what is best for their development and if staying back for a workout, etc. of any kind benefits them more than a particular PTL night, I can live with that.
If you're the guy I think you are, we've talked at the PTL in Waterloo the first time the games were played there this year. You commented on two biggest points I tried to make in my earlier post. I guess I could/should have said that I couldn't see any weight gains in Uthoff while I could in Uhl.
My biggest concern, which is hopefully unfounded, is over Dale Jones. One would think if he played any PTL nights it would certainly be the games played in Waterloo, his home town. I just hope he isn't injured, but if he is, hopefully it is minor. I haven't read or heard any rumors so maybe I'm making something out of nothing.
Anyway, the best part of the PTL is it provides a chance to see the newcomers for the first time. When they're not playing, for whatever reason, it's disappointing but I'm sure they and Fran know what is best for their development and if staying back for a workout, etc. of any kind benefits them more than a particular PTL night, I can live with that.
South Tama County HS, just off the interstate by Tama. In an hour or less of DSM, Cowtown, Cedar Falls, Cedar Rapids and Ottumwa. I think their gym might also be air conditioned. (Think I did a GOP event there but the little towns and events all kind of run together after a few years). Relatively new and definitely nicer than North Liberty. You get a few of the right donors from each of 4 D1s and maybe some of the smaller schools and JUCOs also and you'd have yourself a very nice little made for local TV league with some damn fine ball. It'd be great for Iowa HS ball and raise Iowa's profile as a BBall state.
Fleming's numbers are astounding for a kid that's never played a minute of college ball of any kind. He's averaging 27.7, and that's somewhat deflated by the one 12 point outing, next fewest is 23. Eight rebounds and 3.8 assists. There's a lot of other guys that are older and much more experienced not doing that in the same league.
Fleming's numbers are astounding for a kid that's never played a minute of college ball of any kind. He's averaging 27.7, and that's somewhat deflated by the one 12 point outing, next fewest is 23. Eight rebounds and 3.8 assists. There's a lot of other guys that are older and much more experienced not doing that in the same league.
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