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Question for Hawk Fans

andy1992

HR All-State
Apr 1, 2009
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A few years ago a lot of Hawk fans on this board would talk about Creen Getting rid of the players that would not pan out. Get them to transfer. Now you all seem to want to push a couple guys out that are not really big 10 worthy.

Did you all change your mind on how it should work or did you just see that schools get rid of players because they never will play and they will have a better shot at a different school?

Also, You seem to be more into taking transfers when a few years ago you were thowing teams taking them under bus. Telling everyone Fran was doing it "the Right way".

Not trying to troll you. Just seeing why a lot of your fans have changed your minds
 
A taste of success makes people crave more. But really, you might just be getting mixed signals by fans on here. There are more than 10 people that have posted here in the past five years.
 
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Well, a few years ago Iowa was in the NCAA Tournament. Last couple years? Not so much, to say the least.

Success (or lack thereof) has a way of changing perspectives, I guess.

You can put me down as one who has always been OK with taking transfers. Get the best players you can.
 
A taste of success makes people crave more. But really, you might just be getting mixed signals by fans on here. There are more than 10 people that have posted here in the past five years.
You can put the lipstick on but it doesn't change much. Andy 1992 is right, Iowa fans (message board hang outs) overwhelmingly blasted Cream for driving kids off. And as for transfers...devils playground. Flip flops rather than mixed signals is the bottom line.
 
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I was one that did not think highly of Creaning.......still don't.

On the flip side....I really haven't heard much talk about pushing players out of our program. The MAJOR part of this discussion came from more than one reporter predicting some transfers. Our own Tom said he had an over/under of 3...or something like that. THAT is where a lot of the discussion and projection of who might be, or should be, or we hope doesn't transfer comes from.

I believe the OP has generalized and in that way mischaracterized most Hawkeye fans. Speculation on who will transfer is not changing an opinion of the Crean/Indiana practice.

As far as taking a transfer it is my understanding that Fran wasn't big on graduate transfers (especially not taking several transfers) but that he wouldn't rule it out. I think posters on here generally didn't think having a bunch of transfers was the best way to build success......again, not the same as taking a one year graduate transfer at a position of need in order to better our chances with a potential recruit.
 
A few years ago a lot of Hawk fans on this board would talk about Creen Getting rid of the players that would not pan out. Get them to transfer. Now you all seem to want to push a couple guys out that are not really big 10 worthy.

Did you all change your mind on how it should work or did you just see that schools get rid of players because they never will play and they will have a better shot at a different school?

Also, You seem to be more into taking transfers when a few years ago you were thowing teams taking them under bus. Telling everyone Fran was doing it "the Right way".

Not trying to troll you. Just seeing why a lot of your fans have changed your minds
ISU trolls are the absolute worst.
Scum of the earth.
 
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A few years ago a lot of Hawk fans on this board would talk about Creen Getting rid of the players that would not pan out. Get them to transfer. Now you all seem to want to push a couple guys out that are not really big 10 worthy.

Did you all change your mind on how it should work or did you just see that schools get rid of players because they never will play and they will have a better shot at a different school?

Also, You seem to be more into taking transfers when a few years ago you were thowing teams taking them under bus. Telling everyone Fran was doing it "the Right way".

Not trying to troll you. Just seeing why a lot of your fans have changed your minds

This isn’t Creaning.
 
Well, a few years ago Iowa was in the NCAA Tournament. Last couple years? Not so much, to say the least.

Success (or lack thereof) has a way of changing perspectives, I guess.

You can put me down as one who has always been OK with taking transfers. Get the best players you can.

Not talking about taking transfers. Talking about "Creaning".... making room to take transfers.

I do not like that practice. Does not fit with the family culture our program is built around.
 
Creaning basically means oversigning and then forcing players to leave to make room. Fran has never done this, and I doubt he ever will. He is very loyal to his guys (too loyal IMO)
 
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You can put the lipstick on but it doesn't change much. Andy 1992 is right, Iowa fans (message board hang outs) overwhelmingly blasted Cream for driving kids off. And as for transfers...devils playground. Flip flops rather than mixed signals is the bottom line.
There's also a BIG difference between taking transfers and picking up players who are bad apples that have been kicked off of various teams for criminal activity or numerous suspensions. I'm more then OK with the former, but not the latter.
 
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I don't think much of Crean. But encouraging players to move on is something I've never had an issue with.

Having an end of year conversation and letting guys know, very clearly, that they will not see the floor and you(as the coach) will do everything you can to help them find a transfer location is a reasonable approach.
 
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I realize the troll attempt but there is a difference between “recruiting over”, offering a scholly with none available THEN “recommending” a player transfer than sitting down with a player to discuss his best path to playing time or role with the team. If the coaches plans and players expectations don’t match and mutually agree a transfer is TRULY in both parties best interest then no problem. I use The word truly because I know some players are blackballed or pressured into saying in was a “mutual agreement”
 
I realize the troll attempt but there is a difference between “recruiting over”, offering a scholly with none available THEN “recommending” a player transfer than sitting down with a player to discuss his best path to playing time or role with the team. If the coaches plans and players expectations don’t match and mutually agree a transfer is TRULY in both parties best interest then no problem. I use The word truly because I know some players are blackballed or pressured into saying in was a “mutual agreement”
The differences are subtle, but I'm OK with it being a little more one sided than mutually agreed on. Sort of like with your teenagers when you're a parent. There may be "mutual agreement", but it's not 50-50. You get the buy in to a certain extent but it's clear who's in charge.
 
I don't think much of Crean. But encouraging players to move on is something I've never had an issue with.

Having an end of year conversation and letting guys know, very clearly, that they will not see the floor and you(as the coach) will do everything you can to help them find a transfer location is a reasonable approach.
Andy is trolling, or doesn't recognize the difference between a frank season ending discussion and signing more players than you have scholarships for. Recruiting mistakes happen and I've always been in favor coaches encouraging those players to re-evaluate opportunities. Why wouldn't you?
 
1. not trying to troll = trolling
2. creaning = signing players when there are no scholarships. Fran has not done this.
3. issue with transfers (namely with ISU) = signing problem child players that were kicked out of their previous school.

Just to add some more to the discussion:

@TomKakert in a podcast said that Fran does not push people out; if a player leaves it was because it was his choice.

Remember, too, that there are end of season player/coach meetings and there is no doubt Fran is honest with the player. The player either takes that info and tries to improve for next season as a Hawk or they move on. But if the player moves on, it was the player's choice, not Fran's.
 
So if what you are doing is not creaning? Why is there a list of possible guys you can recruit when technically you don’t have a scholarship
 
You can put the lipstick on but it doesn't change much. Andy 1992 is right, Iowa fans (message board hang outs) overwhelmingly blasted Cream for driving kids off. And as for transfers...devils playground. Flip flops rather than mixed signals is the bottom line.

Follow along.
 
So if what you are doing is not creaning? Why is there a list of possible guys you can recruit when technically you don’t have a scholarship

Lot of coaches do this. Recruit in case of players transferring. Difference between them and Tom crean is he flat out told a red shirt his scholarship wasn’t any good for his 5th yr so he could bring someone else in and flat out told players to leave and offered scholarship and take the commitment to put them over the limit before anyone had left therefore putting himself in the position to get rid of someone.

Fran takes nunge last year has his son walk on. Take cj Fredrick commit with him saying he would walk on a year if no one transfers. Has not and will not take a commit unless he knows for sure someone is leaving but has backup plans in place like so many other coaches do. See the difference here genius?
 
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So if what you are doing is not creaning? Why is there a list of possible guys you can recruit when technically you don’t have a scholarship
Why does ISU give out 200 offers in FB? They don't have that many available scholarships do they?

I think you're being intentionally obtuse, but the reality of college BBall is that approximately 600-700 players transfer every year. Why, as a coach with limited scholarships, wouldn't you continually keep your eyes open for new players?
 
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Why does ISU give out 200 offers in FB? They don't have that many available scholarships do they?

I think you're being intentionally obtuse, but the reality of college BBall is that approximately 600-700 players transfer every year. Why, as a coach with limited scholarships, wouldn't you continually keep your eyes open for new players?

I’m not saying it’s a bad thing. I’m just curious when Hawk message board posters decided “the right way” was now the way Iowa state and the rest of college basketball was doing it.

FYI Crean told players after they completed their freshman year that they were not good enough to ever get playing time and they were being recruited over. Brutal but is he supposed to keep them at Indiana for four years on the bench or be honest?
 
IMO, there is nothing wrong with no guarantee of a scholarship for a fifth year. That happens with Iowa football quite frequently. If a recruit that was redshirted is panning out after 4 years, he still had 4 years of a college education paid for, so there does not need to automatically guarantee a fifth year on scholarship.
 
I haven't had a problem with juco's or transfers. Each is a case by case situation. If the young man comes baggage free and can help the team I'm all for it.

Sam Williams, John Johnson, Freddy Brown, Luke Recker, JU, and others have worked out for us.

Kids coming in from Police Blotter U might not be as welcomed as they are in other places.
 
I’m not saying it’s a bad thing. I’m just curious when Hawk message board posters decided “the right way” was now the way Iowa state and the rest of college basketball was doing it.

FYI Crean told players after they completed their freshman year that they were not good enough to ever get playing time and they were being recruited over. Brutal but is he supposed to keep them at Indiana for four years on the bench or be honest?

You keep (intentionally) overlooking the key point. Crean was accepting more commitments than he had available scholarships and THEN telling those guys they weren't good enough and needed to move on.
 
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I’m not saying it’s a bad thing. I’m just curious when Hawk message board posters decided “the right way” was now the way Iowa state and the rest of college basketball was doing it.

FYI Crean told players after they completed their freshman year that they were not good enough to ever get playing time and they were being recruited over. Brutal but is he supposed to keep them at Indiana for four years on the bench or be honest?

Again how hard it is it to comprehend what Crean did was not similar to other coaches. Even at his scholarship limit he would recruit and accept a player even though no one was leaving his team. Then he told a 5th year senior in one case and told others to move on and pull their scholarship even though they wanted to stay at Indiana. A HUGE difference from other teams and how he got the term named after him by multiple fan bases.
 
Kind of like SEC coaches in football. They oversign and then tell current players there isn't a roster spot. Fran hasn't done that once. Every coach has a list of "possible" options in case of late transfer or early entry. No coach wants to sit on a scholly if they don't have to. What Crean did was sign a kid then go to his current player and tell them they didn't have a scholly anymore. Pretty shady if you ask me. Fran and other coaches always have an option in case of a last minute transfer or entry.

I wasn't a fan of what ISU was doing because their guys would use the "grad transfer" rule and never attend class or never finish their degree. I know most guys don't, but the NCAA should look at that rule. If they do not finish their degree within 3-4years of playing that "4th year" then punish the school with a loss of a scholly. I know the NCAA would never do that, but it was a thought to make that 4th year mean something more than just a free pass to transfer.

You are seeing more and more kids transfer and I think the NCAA needs to stop it. Having some 700+ kids transfer is pathetic. It goes to show the state of our youth. If I'm not happy instead of working hard and make it work, I will quit and transfer to another school.
 
Andy, many have pointed out the difference, but to answer your other question - I am pretty sure Fran DOES have honest conversations with his players about how much time they may or may not see. Perhaps if he limited his rotation more these talks would have more of an impact. As of now, it seems like 11 guys will play and get a chance to show they can be good, and that number (11) probably keeps more of them around than a rotation of 7-8 would.

Lastly, if I were you, I would worry more about your own team. ISU is a "basketball school" right?
 
We aren't creaning or oversigning players to later cut. Fran can't recruit outside if iowa and has to correct some of his blunders. The exception is Cook who I'm sure regrets signing here.

As far as jucos go, sign them up. I'm all for them if they are good like Reggie Evans. I didn't care that hoiberg was taking transfers neither. Just no criminals
 
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