Question for the roster guru's here.

[CP84 2.0]

Give me a reason to be confident next season with Paddock, Gross and Stoll. Stoll is the only one I've seen this season at Midlands and his performance was underwhelming. All three have some bad losses with a real lack of quality wins. Stoll's best win was against Brooks Black but he was beaten pretty convincingly twice by Mellon.

I have no doubt these three will eventually develop in quality athletes but will any be All American candidates by next season?

 

[SetonHallPirate]

Originally posted by CP84 2.0:
Give me a reason to be confident next season with Paddock, Gross and Stoll. Stoll is the only one I've seen this season at Midlands and his performance was underwhelming. All three have some bad losses with a real lack of quality wins. Stoll's best win was against Brooks Black but he was beaten pretty convincingly twice by Mellon.

I have no doubt these three will eventually develop in quality athletes but will any be All American candidates by next season?

CP84 2.0, I'd try to give you a reason, but I can't come up with any myself. To answer your question, likely not.

Gross and Stoll are probably looking at 1 to 2 wins tops at nationals next year, and Paddock is probably an 1-2 guy at best (with a favorable backside draw), if he even qualifies for nationals.

 

[CP84 2.0]

I like our chances next season if we can get one of these guys at least to the round of 12. We'll have 4 returning All Americans with a strong AA candidate in Brooks and a legitimate AA candidate in Meyers. I think to win the thing, we'll need either one of the young guys to step up or we'll need a couple of finalists from the veterans.

 

[MVPFAN]

We need more than a rd of 12 from one of the new starters, that won't cut it unless the returners raise it a bunch. I consider Meyer like a returner.

 

[WWDMHawkeye]

If we get good production out of the returning guys, we may not need much at all from the other three.

125: Top 4
133: Top 4
149: Top 4
174: Top 6
184: Top 6
197: Top 6

I think we're going to be in the AA hunt at 157 with a beefed-up Grothus or a beefed-up Cooper.

Pretty sure Paddock competed up a weight this year. Seems a little unclear to me what he might be able to accomplish down at 165.

As for Gross and Stoll, some kids make a decent jump from their RS year to their first year in the lineup. I'm going to hope for the best and keep an open mind here.

Of our 6 probable AA's, I think we have legit title contenders in Gilman, Clark, and Sorensen. Given how 174 clears out, a guy like Meyer could even be a dark horse finalist. If we can push a couple guys into the finals -- seems entirely realistic to me -- and our returners produce like I think they can, just a win or two apiece between 141, 165, and 285 could be enough to put is in the title hunt.

Going to take a glass-half-full approach on this.

This post was edited on 3/22 3:15 PM by WWDMHawkeye

 

[93hawkeye]

I have wondered, too how good Gross and Paddock have looked this year. I think next year the Hawks will need 2 champs and 4-5 others AAing to have a decent shot at team title. That's what OH State will likely have and PSU won't be far behind that.
Gilman, Clark, Sorenson, Burak can pretty much be penicilled in for AA, I think, and possible Brooks and Meyer. None of those guys look like favorites, however. i have no way to guess what the production will be at 141, 157, 165 or HWT.

 

[CP84 2.0]

Brooks should have been an All American this season. Brooks, Dziewa and Evans to a degree got unlucky due to other upsets. Brooks had to go through the 1 and 3 seeds just to reach the podium. Dziewa had to beat both Dardanes and Mayes and Evans had to face Kokesh just to get to the 3rd place match.

Those unlucky draws plus Missouri collapsing to Ohio State in both semi finals made all the difference.

 

[sloehawk]

Originally posted by WWDMHawkeye:
If we get good production out of the returning guys, we may not need much at all from the other three.

125: Top 4
133: Top 4
149: Top 4
174: Top 6
184: Top 6
197: Top 6

I think we're going to be in the AA hunt at 157 with a beefed-up Grothus or a beefed-up Cooper.

Pretty sure Paddock competed up a weight this year. Seems a little unclear to me what he might be able to accomplish down at 165.

As for Gross and Stoll, some kids make a decent jump from their RS year to their first year in the lineup. I'm going to hope for the best and keep an open mind here.

Of our 6 probable AA's, I think we have legit title contenders in Gilman, Clark, and Sorensen. Given how 174 clears out, a guy like Meyer could even be a dark horse finalist. If we can push a couple guys into the finals -- seems entirely realistic to me -- and our returners produce like I think they can, just a win or two apiece between 141, 165, and 285 could be enough to put is in the title hunt.

Going to take a glass-half-full approach on this.

This post was edited on 3/22 3:15 PM by WWDMHawkeye

Agreed on all counts.

The one thing we aren't currently considering is the amount of returning All-Americans, which obviously factor in to how much "proven" competition each of our guys will face. Obviously there will be some newcomers that will make a big impact, hopefully they wear Iowa colors! On paper, that doesn't seem to be the case, but we shall see (outside of Meyer, he's going to be REALLY good).

Off the top of my head, there are 7 returning Champions (ouch!), and 11 Finalists. That's not including former Champs like Cox and Tsirtsis and guys like Mega and Retherford.

It's a minefield, no doubt about it. Same every year, and not everyone repeats due to any number of factors. One example of a presumably healthy guy is Mike Moreno from Iowa State. #2 seed, gets upset early, then has 3 Falls on the back side, only to lose in the R12. And he was a 2 time AA already and a tough customer for sure. Those are things that can and do happen, Iowa has had their share of those things over the years as well.

In short, its a damn tough test to be sure.

I had to look at 174, because I think Meyer is a bonafide threat to win the whole darn thing. We know we lose the Big Ten 4. Of the 8 All-Americans at this weight, only 2 return. 5th place Crutchmer and 7th place Epperly, both Sophs. and both fine wrestlers, but not in the caliber of a Brown or Kokesh. Both had 8 losses on the year, and were the #12 and #7 seeds respectively. This weight is there for the taking (scratch that if Dieringer moves up! Ha!).

 

[Kwoodhawk]

Originally posted by sloehawk:

Originally posted by WWDMHawkeye:
If we get good production out of the returning guys, we may not need much at all from the other three.

125: Top 4
133: Top 4
149: Top 4
174: Top 6
184: Top 6
197: Top 6

I think we're going to be in the AA hunt at 157 with a beefed-up Grothus or a beefed-up Cooper.

Pretty sure Paddock competed up a weight this year. Seems a little unclear to me what he might be able to accomplish down at 165.

As for Gross and Stoll, some kids make a decent jump from their RS year to their first year in the lineup. I'm going to hope for the best and keep an open mind here.

Of our 6 probable AA's, I think we have legit title contenders in Gilman, Clark, and Sorensen. Given how 174 clears out, a guy like Meyer could even be a dark horse finalist. If we can push a couple guys into the finals -- seems entirely realistic to me -- and our returners produce like I think they can, just a win or two apiece between 141, 165, and 285 could be enough to put is in the title hunt.

Going to take a glass-half-full approach on this.


This post was edited on 3/22 3:15 PM by WWDMHawkeye

Agreed on all counts.

The one thing we aren't currently considering is the amount of returning All-Americans, which obviously factor in to how much "proven" competition each of our guys will face. Obviously there will be some newcomers that will make a big impact, hopefully they wear Iowa colors! On paper, that doesn't seem to be the case, but we shall see (outside of Meyer, he's going to be REALLY good).

Off the top of my head, there are 7 returning Champions (ouch!), and 11 Finalists. That's not including former Champs like Cox and Tsirtsis and guys like Mega and Retherford.

It's a minefield, no doubt about it. Same every year, and not everyone repeats due to any number of factors. One example of a presumably healthy guy is Mike Moreno from Iowa State. #2 seed, gets upset early, then has 3 Falls on the back side, only to lose in the R12. And he was a 2 time AA already and a tough customer for sure. Those are things that can and do happen, Iowa has had their share of those things over the years as well.

In short, its a damn tough test to be sure.

I had to look at 174, because I think Meyer is a bonafide threat to win the whole darn thing. We know we lose the Big Ten 4. Of the 8 All-Americans at this weight, only 2 return. 5th place Crutchmer and 7th place Epperly, both Sophs. and both fine wrestlers, but not in the caliber of a Brown or Kokesh. Both had 8 losses on the year, and were the #12 and #7 seeds respectively. This weight is there for the taking (scratch that if Dieringer moves up! Ha!).

You would think that Bo Jordan might move up. He looks way big for 165.

The 2 finalists at 125 are Freshman so that makes it tough for Gilman to move up much.

 

[wasdt21]

this ones for vallhol. is Kemmerer good enough to step in at 57 no shirt? probably not

 

[HawkTitan]

If I did the math right, Iowa has 58.5 points returning for next year. Brooks can certainly add more to his total, Sorensen possibly, too. That leaves roughly 30-35 points for the five newcomers to make up (based on Ohio State's total this year). I don't think that's an unreasonable request.

 

[sloehawk]

Originally posted by wasdt21:

this ones for vallhol. is Kemmerer good enough to step in at 57 no shirt? probably not

I'm gonna give my .02 cents while you're waiting for Valholll, but in a word.... NO!

He's a 145 lber right now. That's a big jump, in size and talent level. 49 lber would make more sense actually, a spot that is hopefully still manned by young Mr. Sorensen. Perhaps he even makes 145 pretty easy (not likely but....), then 141 would come into the picture. If Gross/Carton/Ryan all struggle for some reason, maybe Kemerer at 141 would heat up. Doubtful however, very doubtful.

Now in Vallholl's crazy lineup world, Kemerer at 157 would make perfect sense! And then you can bump Grothus to 197 while Burak redshirts.....

 

[minnhawkeye]

 

[CP84 2.0]

Here are there signature wins/losses per Wrestlestats.


Stoll:
Notable wins: Brooks Black 3-1
Notable losses: Devin Mellon 6-1 and 8-3, Allen Malcolm 6-5, Gage Hutchison F, Jacob Henderson 5-3



Gross:
Notable wins: Logan Ryan 7-2, Brock Ervin 6-2
Notable losses: Dean Heil 12-4, Todd Preston 6-5, Jordan Laster 7-4



Paddock:
Notable wins: Jake Stilling 11-9,
Notable losses: Bryce Gorman 5-3, Jordan Rogers 5-3, Jake Residori 9-6, Ryan Christensen 13-2, Kyle Lux 9-4


Gross is probably the best bet to contribute much next season. Perhaps Paddock will improve when he's wrestling at a lower weight. I'm not expecting much from Stoll other than maybe a qualifier.

 

[hawkeyesports92]

RS Burak and give EB his shot. In a perfect world 141 would be doable for Brody while Cooper and company fight it out for 57.

 

[Squarehat]

I saw some discussion (maybe on themat.com?) about Dierenger moving up to 174 to make room for Marstellar. Anyone think that's possible? Crutchmer is too small for 184 imo...

 

[dicemen99]

I would expect Dieringer to be 174 next year - I don't think there is a lot of question about that. Jordan looked so enormous at Nationals that would not surprise me either, although I'm not sure how that works for them as a team unless Martin can cut to 65 for his final season. Maybe Isaac, as I could see one of the Jordans moving up.

 

[MVPFAN]

Dieringer would only move up for team considerations IMO. I don't think he can't handle making 165. Jordan looked bigger than he did. Crutchmer struggled more at 184 previously, Boyd would have to move up as well.

 

[CP84 2.0]

Sorensen looks pretty big for a 149. He's also only a redshirt freshman and very well could grow more. Any chance he's the one to move up to 157 leaving Grothus at 149?

 

[butchinmi]

hawkeyesports92 - I think your comment was sarcasm and I hate to even bring this topic up again as I think the ship has sailed. Is it a for sure thing that Brody is on his way to 57? I know the cut to '41 didn't work but I didn't know if that had to do with a short time to get there. Queue Kwood with the beating me over the head with the chair emoji.

 

[GetNAfterIt]

I'll say it again, but I heard that the plan was to move Grothus up to 57. That information came from one of the staff members. Ryan/Carton/Gross is an interesting situation and nobody knows as of right now how that'll play out.
Posted from Rivals Mobile

 

[butchinmi]

Thanks GetnAfterIt

 

[Kwoodhawk]

Originally posted by butchinmi:
Thanks GetnAfterIt

 

[MVPFAN]

Originally posted by CP84 2.0:
Sorensen looks pretty big for a 149. He's also only a redshirt freshman and very well could grow more. Any chance he's the one to move up to 157 leaving Grothus at 149?

Sorensen is fine at 149. He won't be looking to go 157 if he can help it. He would need to be a lot bigger to match up with the 157 guys and he is not beating Martinez.

 

[clhawks00]

I predict that Stoll makes a huge jump during the offseason and will be an AA next year. Very bold prediction but I have a good feeling about him. HWT is a weight class that can be difficult to adjust to for a freshman. A year to get in better shape and hit the weight room and Stoll will be a beast.

 

[Stanley75]

Originally posted by MVPFAN:
Sorensen is fine at 149. He won't be looking to go 157 if he can help it. He would need to be a lot bigger to match up with the 157 guys and he is not beating Martinez.

True that.

 

[Vallholl]

First of EB told me he's going to OTC next year and second he's our future 165lb. so he's off the table.

My crazy lineup talk involves trying to get my perceived 10 best wrestlers on the mat at the same time. I was trying to figure out 141-165 yesterday and I came up with the following:

141- Cooper (or Sorensen has a whole summer to try again-hopefully safely)
149- Sorensen
157-Grothus
165-Paddock/Thomsen/Rhoads

And of course, it is easy for me to discuss cutting 8 more lbs for someone else, but who really knows how it would actually work out. The Brody story from last year was scary.

And I'll be riding the "Burak needs to shirt until the Midlands" horse next year until we see how 141/157/165 are doing. I like the idea of going into 2016 with Gilman, Clark, Meyer, Brooks AND Burak as SRs and Sorensen as a JR and Stoll, Paddock as SO, Kemerer / Turk as a RSFR and Marinelli as a true Frosh. The only reasons that Burak wrestles next year is that TnT think they can win it all, they have a 197lb on the roster or coming in who can AA, or Burak wants to wrestle. The weight clears out for Burak after next year with Gadsen/Schiller gone and McIntosh being a SR. Recall he beat Snyder and wrestled Cox tough so I think he has a better chance in 2016.

And, in case you've forgotten how this works. I post this stuff. Everyone says, "You're nuts", "That's crazy" and then in about 5 months, Chief will post the same thing and everyone says, "Brilliant", "Inspired", and "Wow, you're awesome". True story.

 

[mike tognetti]

who the heck is EB? John wants to know.

 

[Kwoodhawk]

Originally posted by mike tognetti:
who the heck is EB? John wants to know.

He's your favorite furry animal who comes around at Easter. Sometimes shows up all covered in Chocolate.

 

[mike tognetti]

I'll let John know, what weight is he going in college?