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Re-watching Kerk vs Cass and I have rulebook questions

jrod65

jrod65

HR All-American
Jan 21, 2019
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I admit I'm a bit salty after the loss, and understand it is going to come across as sour grapes, but these are legit questions here.

1.) Isn't it illegal to dig your thumb into and/or grab an opponent's throat?

Didn't notice it live, but saw someone tweet about Kerk choking Cass. Rewatched, and sure enough his hands/thumbs were on Cassioppi's throat multiple times while in neutral. You can see Cass motion this to the official at the end of the 1st as well.

Watch the clip below for the most blatant example(2nd td, 4 sec into video).

2.) Also curious about holding onto the ankle if you have a leg in. Is there no rule against this? I truly do not know. Can the top man put in a leg and just hold onto the ankle for 20+ sec(last min of 1st period)with no stall call?

 
PAHURDLER said:
Neat. Next time feel free to address my point instead of soiling yourself in public.
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It's finally...finally sinking in that I'm no longer needed here. You young guys have a different style but every bit as effective with your "troll" game if not more. I almost feel like a parent when their children leave the roost....sad but so proud. I'm officially passing on the mantle to you Hurdler. I'll still visit but only to admire your work and to give encouragement.

I'm proud of you..
 
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Jcchawk said:
Doesn't Penn St have their own wrestling board? It's obvious nobody cares about your opinions here.
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Some of you guys get so irrationally angry sometimes on here. I did not say anything mean, I did not disparage your university, and I did not call any of you ugly.

I responded to the OP with a relevant point - refs can be wildly inconsistent at times, and provided an example. I can see how some of you more casual fans might have forgotten about that incident.
 
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jrod65 said:
I admit I'm a bit salty after the loss, and understand it is going to come across as sour grapes, but these are legit questions here.

1.) Isn't it illegal to dig your thumb into and/or grab an opponent's throat?

Didn't notice it live, but saw someone tweet about Kerk choking Cass. Rewatched, and sure enough his hands/thumbs were on Cassioppi's throat multiple times while in neutral. You can see Cass motion this to the official at the end of the 1st as well.

Watch the clip below for the most blatant example(2nd td, 4 sec into video).

2.) Also curious about holding onto the ankle if you have a leg in. Is there no rule against this? I truly do not know. Can the top man put in a leg and just hold onto the ankle for 20+ sec(last min of 1st period)with no stall call?

View embedded media
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Hey jrod, I get your concern . . . my take has always been:

(1) Heavies get more latitude on the handsy stuff around the head. Maybe because ‘dancing bears’ is an established style not quick to wash out — face and throat stuff (if done quickly and w/out clubbing) is just seen as part of pummeling. I didn’t see the whole match, but the example in the vid you posted was pretty quick . . . Kerk didn’t grab the throat and choke but, rather, went to the throat & chin in continued motion for leverage in the setup. Again, I think Heavies are simply given more latitude.

(2) Ok to sustain grasping of the far ankle if a leg is in, provided you are using the ankle grasp in an attempt to break down your opponent. That becomes a judgment call for the ref — not like the automatic 5-sec count for grasping far ankle while riding the waist.
 
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Lil KerKin was obviously doing the choke. What I did not understand was Big Cass reaction? Maybe the thumb to the throat was worse then it looked, but Tony kept bringing his head up instead of down. This is exactly what the KerKin wanted.

The Gerkin obviously has been working on this. If the Refs allow it? His long arms/reach advantage will make this a good weapon. My guess is, it will be brought up, and you will see him get warned at some point. The problem is, as everyone knows, the Refs will never be consistent.

Cass has to keep his head down, but this gets him out of the situation where he can get to his upper body ties that has worked against the Kergin. Guessing that is why they did it, maybe having Synder in the room has helped because this is something you seem to see more in International Wrestling.
 
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OILCHECKER said:
There is no rule against holding onto an ankle for longer than 5 seconds
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But there is this from the 2022-2023 NCAA Wrestling Rulebook:

Art. 13. Stalling by Waist and Ankle Ride. If the offensive wrestler applies a hold with a hand or arm around the defensive wrestler’s torso while applying the other arm/hand below the buttocks, the referee shall immediately start a verbal five-second count. Whenever possible, the referee also should include a visual indication of the count. The referee shall stop the count when the offensive wrestler moves his arm/hand back up above the buttocks of the defensive wrestler, or releases the hold. If the referee reaches the fifth count before the offensive wrestler moves his arm/hand back up above the buttocks of the defensive wrestler, or releases the hold, then the offensive wrestler shall be called for stalling.
 
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Nashville_Hawkeye said:
I disagree. I remember the match…his comments were legit. I hate that Cass lost but we’re going to have to work out the kinks and beat Kerk if we want to get where we want to go.
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You should post over on BWI more. Great group of Hawk fans over there right now. You’re a perfect fit ..

Oh and try to bring @el dub with ya..
 
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PAHURDLER said:
Some of you guys get so irrationally angry sometimes on here. I did not say anything mean, I did not disparage your university, and I did not call any of you ugly.

I responded to the OP with a relevant point - refs can be wildly inconsistent at times, and provided an example. I can see how some of you more casual fans might have forgotten about that incident.
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I tried having rational wrestling discussions on your Board several times. It went fine with a handful and then the overly sensitive, insecure little rats found time to chime in. All message boards have them.
 
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Why so many PSU people coming over here making themselves look like they never had a winning record or never wrestled themselves?
 
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Psalm 1 guy said:
But there is this from the 2022-2023 NCAA Wrestling Rulebook:

Art. 13. Stalling by Waist and Ankle Ride. If the offensive wrestler applies a hold with a hand or arm around the defensive wrestler’s torso while applying the other arm/hand below the buttocks, the referee shall immediately start a verbal five-second count. Whenever possible, the referee also should include a visual indication of the count. The referee shall stop the count when the offensive wrestler moves his arm/hand back up above the buttocks of the defensive wrestler, or releases the hold. If the referee reaches the fifth count before the offensive wrestler moves his arm/hand back up above the buttocks of the defensive wrestler, or releases the hold, then the offensive wrestler shall be called for stalling.
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Which is not the same as just grabbing an ankle and holding onto it (which can be and should be called stalling.....just no official 5 sec rule).
 
johnstownsteel said:
You should post over on BWI more. Great group of Hawk fans over there right now. You’re a perfect fit ..

Oh and try to bring @el dub with ya..
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10 freaking post before this you joke about how you’re no longer needed here (as if you were ever wanted) because yet another one of you clowns is now trolling us.

Yet despite that, you mention how there are good Iowa posters on the Penn st forum? Can you not see the irony here? This is why @Mike Zierath should have never let you back.

Psu guys are again being allowed to ruin this forum. We’re only three weeks into the wrestling season. How disappointing. There aren’t many psu fans that actually contribute. They just come here to stoke the flame. They say they are no longer needed here, Mike, Prove move them right ffs.
 
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HawkFan1986 said:
10 freaking post before this you joke about how you’re no longer needed here (as if you were ever wanted) because another one of you clowns is now trolling us.

Yet despite that you mention how their are good Iowa posters on the Penn st forum? Can you not see the irony here? This is why @Mike Zierath should have never let you back.

Psu guys are again being allowed to ruin this forum. We’re only three weeks into the wrestling season. How disappointing. There aren’t many that actually contribute. They just come here to stoke the flame. They are bragging on our site about how they are aren’t needed any more Prove move then right ffs!!
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Is English your native tounge?
 
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4theglory54 said:
It just seemed like a lunch time martini kicked in just as he was typing the last line.
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I’m known for my typos. I have an older phone and squirrelly shit happens when I’m typing to fast. Im on vacation, I refuse to edit any post before I hit send.

I cleaned it up for you grammar Nazi’s. My point remains, psu fans are being major twat waffles right now.
 
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HawkFan1986 said:
I’m known for my typos. I have an older phone and squirrelly shit happens when I’m typing to fast. Im on vacation, I refuse to edit any post before I hit send.

I cleaned it up for you grammar Nazi’s. My point remains, psu fans are being major twat waffles right now.
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Any post that has “twat waffles” in it earns a like from me.
 
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HawkFan1986 said:
10 freaking post before this you joke about how you’re no longer needed here (as if you were ever wanted) because yet another one of you clowns is now trolling us.

Yet despite that, you mention how there are good Iowa posters on the Penn st forum? Can you not see the irony here? This is why @Mike Zierath should have never let you back.

Psu guys are again being allowed to ruin this forum. We’re only three weeks into the wrestling season. How disappointing. There aren’t many psu fans that actually contribute. They just come here to stoke the flame. They say they are no longer needed here, Mike, Prove move them right ffs.
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Why didn’t you read it as my saying there are good Hawk posters here? Thought my inviting a couple of them over to BWI would have made it obvious to those of you with even the minimalist of clues.
 
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johnstownsteel said:
Why didn’t read it as my saying there are good Hawk posters here? Thought by my inviting a couple of them over to BWI would have made that obvious to those with even a minimalist of clues.
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I don’t have the energy to keep speaking to you so I’ll say this once more. In post #8 in this thread you make a joke, saying that your services are no longer needed. Implying, that someone else has taken over for your trolling “responsibilities”.

Then you mention that BWI has good Iowa fan posters. Which it does.

The reason those good Iowa fan posters exist is because they don’t come over there to intentionally act like ass hats. Yet that’s your entire goal, as you mention in post 8. You take pride in being a troll and ruining threads.

Hence the irony. You want good posters to come to BWI, but here you could care less about the quality of the threads. You should never have been unblocked. A skunk can’t change its stripes and it appears that you can’t either.

I’m done with you. Have a good thanksgiving.
 
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HawkFan1986 said:
I don’t have the energy to keep speaking to you so I’ll say this once more. In post #8 in this thread you make a joke, saying that your services are no longer needed. Implying, that someone else has taken over for your trolling “responsibilities”.

Then you mention that BWI has good Iowa fan posters. Which it does.

The reason those good Iowa fan posters exist is because they don’t come over there to intentionally act like ass hats. Yet that’s your entire goal, as you mention in post 8. You take pride in being a troll and ruining threads.

Hence the irony. You want good posters to come to BWI, but here you could care less about the quality of the threads. You should never have been unblocked. A skunk can’t change its stripes and it appears that you can’t either.

I’m done with you. Have a good thanksgiving.
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Maybe I just get Johntownsteel's sense of humor or I am a very dense person, but I usually think he is just trying to be funny. Sometimes it is hard to discern what a person's intention is with a typed response, but I would say - "do not take anything he says to be serious". There is a chance that he is a great guy and avid wrestling fan as many on this cesspool are.
 
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lookleft goright said:
Maybe I just get Johntownsteel's sense of humor or I am a very dense person, but I usually think he is just trying to be funny. Sometimes it is hard to discern what a person's intention is with a typed response, but I would say - "do not take anything he says to be serious". There is a chance that he is a great guy and avid wrestling fan as many on this cesspool are.
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I think he’s a mouth breathing idiot so we will have to agree to disagree. I’ve spent far to much time over on BWI to give him any benefit of the doubt. The only value he has is mocking Iowa and getting cheap laughs from his buddies. But it is what it is at this point.
 
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HawkFan1986 said:
I think he’s a mouth breathing idiot so we will have to agree to disagree. I’ve spent far to much time over on BWI to give him any benefit of the doubt. The only value he has is mocking Iowa and getting cheap laughs from his buddies. But it is what it is at this point.
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China Snow GIF
 
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HawkFan1986 said:
10 freaking post before this you joke about how you’re no longer needed here (as if you were ever wanted) because yet another one of you clowns is now trolling us.

Yet despite that, you mention how there are good Iowa posters on the Penn st forum? Can you not see the irony here? This is why @Mike Zierath should have never let you back.

Psu guys are again being allowed to ruin this forum. We’re only three weeks into the wrestling season. How disappointing. There aren’t many psu fans that actually contribute. They just come here to stoke the flame. They say they are no longer needed here, Mike, Prove move them right ffs.
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Sadly, ain’t happening. One major reason why many Iowa fans like me have basically abandoned HR. It has evolved into a playground for PSU fools with self esteem issues.
 
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WWDMHawkeye said:
Sadly, ain’t happening. One major reason why many Iowa fans like me have basically abandoned HR. It has evolved into a playground for PSU fools with self esteem issues.
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I’ve been on the fence about doing the same thing. It’s really unfortunate. This is one of the rare places where I can talk to like minded people who understand and have a passion for wrestling similar to mine. I’m more than fine with their being a rivalry aspect to a forum but when everything get derailed it’s disheartening.

I full understand that I’m culpable of derailing this thread with my responses, but I think if you look at the majority of my posts here you’ll find that I really just want to talk wrestling.

I have not used the ignore feature very often but I may have to start.

There are a lot of knowledgeable psu fans, but there are more that just want to come over here and argue. If the ratio were even I’d be tickled pink.

I will attempt to be above the nonsense in the future. I apologize for helping to ruin you’re thread @jrod65.

I’ll be at the penn dual in a few days and im hearing some very positive things. Go Hawks.
 
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HawkFan1986 said:
I’ve been on the fence about doing the same thing. It’s really unfortunate. This is one of the rare places where I can talk to like minded people who understand and have a passion for wrestling similar to mine. I’m more than fine with their being a rivalry aspect to a forum but when everything get derailed it’s disheartening.

I full understand that I’m culpable of derailing this thread with my responses, but I think if you look at the majority of my posts here you’ll find that I really just want to talk wrestling.

I have not used the ignore feature very often but I may have to start.

There are a lot of knowledgeable psu fans, but there are more that just want to come over here and argue. If the ratio were even I’d be tickled pink.

I will attempt to be above the nonsense in the future. I apologize for helping to ruin you’re thread @jrod65.

I’ll be at the penn dual in a few days and im hearing some very positive things. Go Hawks.
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Stick around and hit Ignore. It's great, saves time and keeps your focus on what you want to keep up on
 
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johnstownsteel said:
Except for Grip220 ....


And Rosie O'Donnell.
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First off, I’m so good looking your m*m would be beating your w*fe off me to get a piece, that said, I gave Kerk credit and said Big tone lost. Kerk was thumbing him in throat and it should have been called once or twice. International guys do that a lot, wonder who is showing him that crap. funst does prepare well give Carl& co credit for that.
 
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