On Thursday, April 24, I joined my colleagues Ashley Parker and Michael Scherer in the White House to interview President Donald Trump. The story behind this meeting is a strange one, told in their new Atlantic cover story, which you can read here.
Ashley and Michael had been seeking an Oval Office meeting for some time. It had been scheduled, then angrily unscheduled, then followed by an impromptu interview from the president’s cellphone, and then by an apparent pocket dial from the president one night at 1:28 a.m., and then by a promise, again, for a sit-down, this time with a specific request from Trump that I accompany Ashley and Michael. This invitation was followed by a Truth Social posting from the president that read, in part, “Later today I will be meeting with, of all people, Jeffrey Goldberg, the Editor of The Atlantic, and the person responsible for many fictional stories about me.” Not entirely fictional in the president’s eyes, apparently, was the Signalgate controversy, which he said I was “somewhat more ‘successful’ with.”
We found the president—in an Oval Office redecorated in what I would call the Louis XIV Overripe Casino style—in an upbeat and friendly mood. Our numberless transgressions were, if not forgiven, then mainly ignored. Joining the president were his chief of staff, Susie Wiles; his communications director, Steven Cheung; the press secretary, Karoline Leavitt; and numerous other staff members.
What follows are substantial excerpts from our conversation, condensed and edited for clarity. Our main goal in the interview was to encourage the president to analyze his unprecedented political comeback, and explain the way he is now wielding power—including the question of whether he sees any limits to what a president can do. Trump’s main goal, it seemed, was to convince us that he has placed his presidency in service of the nation and of humanity. (A subsidiary goal was to ask us if we thought he should hang a chandelier in the Oval Office. The Atlantic takes no position on that matter.) He said many noteworthy things about Ukraine, about tariffs, and about the retribution-driven nature of his second term. I found our encounter fascinating and illuminating.
