Reading KF talk about recruiting & football operations

[cmhawks99]

Is really interesting and quite enjoyable. First off he plays that...I'm just dumb ole' Kirk here, routine to a T.

I know some of you hate it, but I don't. Because he can also come out and "Witt" whip you pretty quick as well... he's really a pretty brilliant man.

But he said a couple things that really hit home to me. Honestly many of you've heard me say I like Kirk fine, but he's the coach, I would like the next coach just as well. As long as he's not an idiot.

The point being I don't idolize the man or think much about him other than being Iowas football coach...but he struggles with some of the same things I do.

And in those struggles as a 60-year-old man in a changing landscape, we have routinely assumed he was old, "dated", out of touch, lazy, shiftless, "fat and happy"....but in reality, although he hankers for a more simpler time, he got out in front of things and they have a pretty damn impressive operation right now. At least as it pertains to recruiting children 24/ seven, 365. Listening to him talk about the contacts they have with the kids, how often they have them in, how they go about starting the process, who is important n the process and why, how important parents are in the process etc. etc. it's just impressive. All this from a guy that several people on this very board think is dumb and out of touch.

As an analogy... I'm only 47 but I'm an Iowa farm boy and although I am pretty high strung and still really driven..as much by insanity as anything..LOL I too am a throwback, I'm not big on technology, I think computers are ruining the world, I still type with my two index fingers etc. etc.... with that said I buy cars all over the country and was one of the first people in the Midwest/Chicagoland to really embrace buying cars on the internet with GMAC smart auction 15 years ago. We went from nothing and me being kind of out of touch, to buying 300+ cars a year with nothing other than a small condition report. It's scary shit but it had to be done...

Yet more often than not you'll catch me talking about tractors, farm life Jesus Christ and perfectly willing to let people think I'm stupid.

The long winded point is this. Simpler isn't wrong, old isn't bad and just because you appear to be "dated" doesn't mean you're not on the cutting edge of things and I assure you KF may give you that..."aw shucks" attitude but he is on the cutting edge.

I find him easy to relate to and if those of you who he frustrates (not challenging, but encouraging) look at it closer. You might see a guy that's actually pretty impressive and despite what it looks like he "IS", he's actually still way out in front.

Just my long winded thoughts on a guy that looks to me has freshened up and in some instances completely changed his operation over the last three or four years, including fixing some of those problems you guys were frustrated about. He still has a lot of upside left.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

Interesting post which I imagine will elicit some interesting responses.

I actually enjoyed reading a lot of the anecdotal stuff and relate to much of what you wrote--particularly about the negative impact of computers and having a somewhat nostalgic longing for simpler times. I'm thirteen years younger than you, but agree people seemed happier (and more enjoyable to be around) when life was simpler and we had fewer...uh, things (technology).

I've made it clear that I was ready for a head coaching change at the University of Iowa five years ago. My opinion hasn't changed much, but frankly I've never placed much stock in it (especially with the University of Iowa having a very generous, if not insane, AD). Regardless, I believe a fan can have the opinion that a coaching change would be appropriate (and/or in the best long-term interest of the program) and still respect and appreciate the current head coach (especially when the opinion doesn't ebb and flow with each game).

Every one is spitballing when it comes to Kirk Ferentz. Every one. Whether you're in the camp who thinks he's stale, boring, a dinosaur, and an unmotivated fat cat, or in the camp who views him as steady, consistent, reliable, and wholesome, you don't know any better than any other fan with a bird's eye view of the program. For the record, I don't believe either side is completely accurate or completely off base.

In other words, it is what it is. Iowa will have plenty of highs with Ferentz, and Iowa will have plenty of lows with him. Is that much different than what occurs at other programs, when put in that context? Not really. Can Iowa do better than Ferentz? Possibly. Can they do worse than him? Without question.

In short, I understand why some fans are happy with him, the same as I understand why there are fans who aren't. What makes this dichotomy so unique to the Iowa fan base is both sides have a valid point (which rarely is the case in other fan bases). If you really think about it, the vastly opposing view points in the fan base are a perfect illustration of Kirk Ferentz's career at Iowa. There are the 5 Top 10 finishes, Orange Bowl and New Year's Day bowl wins, and epic upset wins at home over Top 5 opponents; then there are the numerous losses to MAC teams and pitiful ISU teams to go with having a plethora of "MAC-level recruits" (many of whom end up being AAs and/or NFL players) on Iowa teams that wow you one game then make you scratch your head the next. Is that football? I don't know. It sure is at Iowa.

 

[cmhawks99]

Interesting post which I imagine will elicit some interesting responses.

I actually enjoyed reading a lot of the anecdotal stuff and relate to much of what you wrote--particularly about the negative impact of computers and having a somewhat nostalgic longing for simpler times. I'm thirteen years younger than you, but agree people seemed happier (and more enjoyable to be around) when life was simpler and we had fewer...uh, things (technology).

I've made it clear that I was ready for a head coaching change at the University of Iowa five years ago. My opinion hasn't changed much, but frankly I've never placed much stock in it (especially with the University of Iowa having a very generous, if not insane, AD). Regardless, I believe a fan can have the opinion that a coaching change would be appropriate (and/or in the best long-term interest of the program) and still respect and appreciate the current head coach (especially when the opinion doesn't ebb and flow with each game).

Every one is spitballing when it comes to Kirk Ferentz. Every one. Whether you're in the camp who thinks he's stale, boring, a dinosaur, and an unmotivated fat cat, or in the camp who views him as steady, consistent, reliable, and wholesome, you don't know any better than any other fan with a bird's eye view of the program. For the record, I don't believe either side is completely accurate or completely off base.

In other words, it is what it is. Iowa will have plenty of highs with Ferentz, and Iowa will have plenty of lows with him. Is that much different than what occurs at other programs, when put in that context? Not really. Can Iowa do better than Ferentz? Possibly. Can they do worse than him? Without question.

In short, I understand why some fans are happy with him, the same as I understand why there are fans who aren't. What makes this dichotomy so unique to the Iowa fan base is both sides have a valid point (which rarely is the case in other fan bases). If you really think about it, the vastly opposing view points in the fan base are a perfect illustration of Kirk Ferentz's career at Iowa. There are the 5 Top 10 finishes, Orange Bowl and New Year's Day bowl wins, and epic upset wins at home over Top 5 opponents; then there are the numerous losses to MAC teams and pitiful ISU teams to go with having a plethora of "MAC-level recruits" (many of whom end up being AAs and/or NFL players) on Iowa teams that wow you one game then make you scratch your head the next. Is that football? I don't know. It sure is at Iowa.

Wow is all I can say that is a brilliant follow up. Extremely articulate & dead on. You have a very good grasp on people. The key is to try to get behind the eyes of the other person and see what and why, they see things as they do.

You are right I didn't say anything brilliant and I didn't drill down on what they do. There is a Q&A from Blair if you're interested in that… what I said ws purely conjecture or anecdotal as you said. But I still feel like he's way more out in front than people realize.

Also I'm not above trying to antagonize or run people in the ditch. But in this particular instance I was only offering some insight to the fact that maybe, just maybe, this operation is a lot more out in front than people realize.

I found your follow up exceptionally poignant however and I enjoyed it. I really enjoy talking with people that try to leave their presuppositions at the door and engage in real dialogue.

Merry Christmas brother!!!

 

[cmhawks99]

I don't mean to be sentimental or trite for that matter, but I reread what you wrote again and it really was an awesome rebuttal. What do you do for a living if I might ask?

Probably more importantly, what's important to you?

 

[Randy Marsh]

Probably butt secks.

 

[Pawkhawk1]

Lmao Randy!

 

[Kranepool2]

Our fans have placed millions of dollars in this athletic dept. hands. They have built amazing buildings b/c of this. Seat licensing alone raises $$$ millions come April of every year. Thats when the seat licensing money is due.

 

[cmhawks99]

Our fans have placed millions of dollars in this athletic dept. hands. They have built amazing buildings b/c of this. Seat licensing alone raises $$$ millions come April of every year. Thats when the seat licensing money is due.

This is very true, but the most interesting thing about that is why?!?! And you'd have to agree it is because of the success Hayden and KF have already had.

 

[Pepperman]

I posted some things I had heard about the recruiting of a LB last year. I wanted to go into a lot more detail, but was somewhat sworn to secrecy on much of it. Let's just say the people that I spoke with weren't very familiar with recruiting or how it all works... but they were incredibly impressed with KF and his staff (Seth was the lead on this kid). Meanwhile, competing schools sort of blew themselves up as time went by, with the Arkansas position coach completely ruining all chances they had after a disaster of an in-home visit. In the end, the recruit chose a school closer to home for other reasons... and I know the staff was disappointed, but the insight I had on how Iowa recruits was intriguing. There's a big focus on making sure the parents are on board, that the kids understand all of the work expected from them, and that it is a two-way process of being comfortable and agreeing to be part of the family. The key takeaway is that Iowa certainly is playing a different game than many, and whether or not we fans think it is right / wrong / good / bad / smart / dumb, the fact is Iowa's doing things differently and mostly achieving success with it. KF learned a lot from City Boyz Inc and I don't think we'll repeat that under him at Iowa!

 

[Hawk_4shur]

I haven't always wanted KF to the coach, but I have always admired him and the way he does things. Is it fair to criticize his coaching? Of course! I only take issue with fans that attribute failure (in their eyes) on the field to KF character weaknesses. There is no evidence to support comments that he is lazy, stupid or greedy.

 

[bagdropper]

I haven't always wanted KF to the coach, but I have always admired him and the way he does things. Is it fair to criticize his coaching? Of course! I only take issue with fans that attribute failure (in their eyes) on the field to KF character weaknesses. There is no evidence to support comments that he is lazy, stupid or greedy.

I couldn't have said it any better myself.

 

[cmhawks99]

I posted some things I had heard about the recruiting of a LB last year. I wanted to go into a lot more detail, but was somewhat sworn to secrecy on much of it. Let's just say the people that I spoke with weren't very familiar with recruiting or how it all works... but they were incredibly impressed with KF and his staff (Seth was the lead on this kid). Meanwhile, competing schools sort of blew themselves up as time went by, with the Arkansas position coach completely ruining all chances they had after a disaster of an in-home visit. In the end, the recruit chose a school closer to home for other reasons... and I know the staff was disappointed, but the insight I had on how Iowa recruits was intriguing. There's a big focus on making sure the parents are on board, that the kids understand all of the work expected from them, and that it is a two-way process of being comfortable and agreeing to be part of the family. The key takeaway is that Iowa certainly is playing a different game than many, and whether or not we fans think it is right / wrong / good / bad / smart / dumb, the fact is Iowa's doing things differently and mostly achieving success with it. KF learned a lot from City Boyz Inc and I don't think we'll repeat that under him at Iowa!

Thanks very much for this Pepper. I know you and I aren't always locked in, but you bring good stuff to the table.

Merry Christmas...!!

 

[cmhawks99]

I haven't always wanted KF to the coach, but I have always admired him and the way he does things. Is it fair to criticize his coaching? Of course! I only take issue with fans that attribute failure (in their eyes) on the field to KF character weaknesses. There is no evidence to support comments that he is lazy, stupid or greedy.

Agree, criticism is fair, the other is folly.

 

[rustynailhawk]

I posted some things I had heard about the recruiting of a LB last year. I wanted to go into a lot more detail, but was somewhat sworn to secrecy on much of it. Let's just say the people that I spoke with weren't very familiar with recruiting or how it all works... but they were incredibly impressed with KF and his staff (Seth was the lead on this kid). Meanwhile, competing schools sort of blew themselves up as time went by, with the Arkansas position coach completely ruining all chances they had after a disaster of an in-home visit. In the end, the recruit chose a school closer to home for other reasons... and I know the staff was disappointed, but the insight I had on how Iowa recruits was intriguing. There's a big focus on making sure the parents are on board, that the kids understand all of the work expected from them, and that it is a two-way process of being comfortable and agreeing to be part of the family. The key takeaway is that Iowa certainly is playing a different game than many, and whether or not we fans think it is right / wrong / good / bad / smart / dumb, the fact is Iowa's doing things differently and mostly achieving success with it. KF learned a lot from City Boyz Inc and I don't think we'll repeat that under him at Iowa!

Damn UAB

 

[Pepperman]

One other part of that recruiting story I want to pass along... I wasn't the person standing there listening to this, so I might miss a bit of it, but the important parts will be correct.

KF spent a good 2-3 minutes telling the recruit about how important it is that he have an excellent relationship with the position coach, because that's really who he would spend his time with "every day". KF explained that it was important because every day the players have to walk into the building and they know they're going to be there for a few hours at a time, and the last thing he wants is a player dreading that walk into the building. He made sure the recruit understood that he wouldn't actually spend that much time directly with KF himself, so it was better for everybody if the commitment was viewed as one to the team and position coach more so than one to KF.

Now, look, I have no freaking clue what most coaches say to kids when they've got that same kind of 1x1 time during a visit. I do know that Nick Saban was a total robot with this same recruit and basically told him that if he ended up at Alabama he had to understand he was part of a machine that builds national titles. That like any other machine, if a part breaks or is not working 100 percent it would be swapped out for one that would. Did the kid want to agree to be a part of the machine or not? I'm sure there were some more friendly parts of the visit but based strictly on that, Saban didn't SEEM give a crap about him as a person and made it more apparent that they had an understanding of how he could be replaced if it didn't work.

 

[cmhawks99]

One other part of that recruiting story I want to pass along... I wasn't the person standing there listening to this, so I might miss a bit of it, but the important parts will be correct.

KF spent a good 2-3 minutes telling the recruit about how important it is that he have an excellent relationship with the position coach, because that's really who he would spend his time with "every day". KF explained that it was important because every day the players have to walk into the building and they know they're going to be there for a few hours at a time, and the last thing he wants is a player dreading that walk into the building. He made sure the recruit understood that he wouldn't actually spend that much time directly with KF himself, so it was better for everybody if the commitment was viewed as one to the team and position coach more so than one to KF.

Now, look, I have no freaking clue what most coaches say to kids when they've got that same kind of 1x1 time during a visit. I do know that Nick Saban was a total robot with this same recruit and basically told him that if he ended up at Alabama he had to understand he was part of a machine that builds national titles. That like any other machine, if a part breaks or is not working 100 percent it would be swapped out for one that would. Did the kid want to agree to be a part of the machine or not? I'm sure there were some more friendly parts of the visit but based strictly on that, Saban didn't SEEM give a crap about him as a person and made it more apparent that they had an understanding of how he could be replaced if it didn't work.

I'm not a Saban fan, but over the years, like with Belichik, I have come to appreciate and respect what he is. The very best at his profession, and with that many people don't understand, you have to make it less personal, not more so. Now I have no doubt Saban is passionate about his Job, it shows. But he is not prone to hyperbole or dramatic shows and I have no doubt, he is mechanistic to his players and coaches both. He has a job to do and that's what is important, not necessarily the cogs of the machine.

Sometimes people critic KF for a lack of emotion and I always think, man are they not paying attention?!!?

Thanks again, Pep.

 

[Layoutman]

You can call KF a lot things but "stupid" shouldn't be among them. Runs an honest program, he has a loyal and honest staff behind him. Most of the issues I have with the program are derived from Gary Barta but not all. KF ,I'm guessing, is at his best when he sits down with a recruit and family and adds details to the "Iowa way" concept introduced by the primary recruiter. Some parents, recruits and fans drink the Hawkeye kool-aid and some don't.

What shocked me in this thread is the level headed give and take discussion on the product as a whole......seriously folks I don't know if its the xmas spirit shining through or what because it appears to me that some of these contributors might just be ready to sit around a camp fire preparing to sing Kumbaya!

 

[cmhawks99]

You can call KF a lot things but "stupid" shouldn't be among them. Runs an honest program, he has a loyal and honest staff behind him. Most of the issues I have with the program are derived from Gary Barta but not all. KF ,I'm guessing, is at his best when he sits down with a recruit and family and adds details to the "Iowa way" concept introduced by the primary recruiter. Some parents, recruits and fans drink the Hawkeye kool-aid and some don't.

What shocked me in this thread is the level headed give and take discussion on the product as a whole......seriously folks I don't know if its the xmas spirit shining through or what because it appears to me that some of these contributors might just be ready to sit around a camp fire preparing to sing Kumbaya!

Well I do love Christmas, its a scared special time to me and I take it seriously. The trick is carrying it through the year...

 

[VicHawkeye]

Kirk is a really good fit as a human being for our program and our state. I've always liked him and find myself appreciating his low-key style more and more. It's a Beyonce world today and Iowa is Donna Reed. I'll take it because Donna Reed was a classy and beautiful lady.

 

[Kranepool2]

Can I call Kirk, Donna Reed? She passed in 1986. What does that have to do with 30+ years later. Quit living in the past.

 

[VicHawkeye]

My post was meant to say that today's world is all about flash and hype but Iowa and KF are old fashioned in a good way.

 

[DodgerHawki]

I couldn't have said it any better myself.

Yes I think that's where many are at. If you want to say that recruiting needs to be better, the offense changed, game preparation be better, all fine and good. But going after the guy's character I haven't ever understood.

 

[BlackNGoldBleeder]

Wow is all I can say that is a brilliant follow up. Extremely articulate & dead on. You have a very good grasp on people. The key is to try to get behind the eyes of the other person and see what and why, they see things as they do.

You are right I didn't say anything brilliant and I didn't drill down on what they do. There is a Q&A from Blair if you're interested in that… what I said ws purely conjecture or anecdotal as you said. But I still feel like he's way more out in front than people realize.

Also I'm not above trying to antagonize or run people in the ditch. But in this particular instance I was only offering some insight to the fact that maybe, just maybe, this operation is a lot more out in front than people realize.

I found your follow up exceptionally poignant however and I enjoyed it. I really enjoy talking with people that try to leave their presuppositions at the door and engage in real dialogue.

Merry Christmas brother!!!

Merry CHRISTmas to you.

 

[nu2u]

Can I call Kirk, Donna Reed? She passed in 1986. What does that have to do with 30+ years later. Quit living in the past.

This comment seems out of place with the rest of this discussion. Thanks for the Donna Reed info, I guess.

 

[ROCKY MOUNTAIN HAWK]

Kirk couldn’t be more of an Iowan even if he was born & raised in Iowa.

 

[Eternal Return]

but in reality, although he hankers for a more simpler time, he got out in front of things and they have a pretty damn impressive operation right now.

I have to admit, given how their recruiting has bounced back the last three years (including this one which might be the best of the past three) it seems like they're finally turning things around after a really rough stretch in recruiting from 2013-2015 and the horrible stretch of Greg Davis between 2012-2016 (he was not a good fit for Iowa's programs and was a piss-poor recruiter).

I think the return of O'Keefe has really helped with recruiting and in providing effective professionalism. There is an energy around the team's staff that seems very different than it was just a couple years ago. They actually seem hungry to recruit instead of viewing the process as an obligation more distasteful than cleaning toilets at a dive bar.

 

[cmhawks99]

I have to admit, given how their recruiting has bounced back the last three years (including this one which might be the best of the past three) it seems like they're finally turning things around after a really rough stretch in recruiting from 2013-2015 and the horrible stretch of Greg Davis between 2012-2016 (he was not a good fit for Iowa's programs and was a piss-poor recruiter).

I think the return of O'Keefe has really helped with recruiting and in providing effective professionalism. There is an energy around the team's staff that seems very different than it was just a couple years ago. They actually seem hungry to recruit instead of viewing the process as an obligation more distasteful than cleaning toilets at a dive bar.

Agreed for the most part, though Iowas watershed moment as it pertains to recruiting was back in 08-10ish, that lead to that abysmal 2012 season. We really struggled in that stretch and I believe we have trended up since. With that said 2015 was not a very good class, with lots of defections. Though it's worth mentioning A Nelson & Daniels are future NFL studs.

But 2014 produced 8, 2-deepers with a few still having a chance to start including Hesse, Niemann & Jackson who I think will all 3 play in the NFL.

But 2013 is a class in my mind that way out performed their 52rk. It produced...

Welsh..NFL

Wadley..NFL

Jewel...NFL

L Daniels...NFL

King...NFL

Bazata...maybe

Boettger...maybe FA

Vandy...

Then Powell, Parker & Mitchell who had moments..

And Shimonek and Willies who had moments elsewhere. That was a borderline top 25 class not, 52nd.

At least in my mind.

As for Davis I 100% agree. He was a better coach than he got credit for but he wasn't a good fit for us, nor were the other guys. Though White was decent.

 

[Eternal Return]

Agreed for the most part, though Iowas watershed moment as it pertains to recruiting was back in 08-10ish, that lead to that abysmal 2012 season. We really struggled in that stretch and I believe we have trended up since. With that said 2015 was not a very good class, with lots of defections. Though it's worth mentioning A Nelson & Daniels are future NFL studs.

But 2014 produced 8, 2-deepers with a few still having a chance to start including Hesse, Niemann & Jackson who I think will all 3 play in the NFL.

But 2013 is a class in my mind that way out performed their 52rk. It produced...

Welsh..NFL

Wadley..NFL

Jewel...NFL

L Daniels...NFL

King...NFL

Bazata...maybe

Boettger...maybe FA

Vandy...

Then Powell, Parker & Mitchell who had moments..

And Shimonek and Willies who had moments elsewhere. That was a borderline top 25 class not, 52nd.

At least in my mind.

As for Davis I 100% agree. He was a better coach than he got credit for but he wasn't a good fit for us, nor were the other guys. Though White was decent.

I get what you're saying, but the problem I see with those classes is the lack of depth. There were definitely some good players, but year-to-year the depth wasn't there. There was a big drop off from those top players and the rest of those classes, with some decent guys in between. The biggest problems in recruiting those years were on offense. And I'm being generous with the 2016 class for now because we don't know yet, but it looks like there have been a few busts already. Still, I think that class shows promise overall. I'm most impressed with the 2017 and 2018 classes.

Anyway, the recruiting is only part of the story. I think the bigger problem was Greg Davis and the offensive coaching staff those years. All in all, the program, probably because of the offensive side of the equation, was stagnating and showing wear and tear, a real lack of energy and excitement. 2015 was the product of some great leadership by the upperclassmen, especially the senior class from 2011 and 2012. I think Beatherd kept the offense and the team from being mediocre (maybe only an 8-win team against what we can look back and see was a weak schedule from a down B10 conference overall and a really weak B10 West).

That bump probably saved the program from going into a tailspin, but it also allowed Davis to keep his job one more year. The best thing Ferentz did was get rid of him and a couple of those other coaches. This year was elation and frustration, but looking at the 2017 and 2018 classes specifically I'm more optimistic about the future of the offense and the defense could be ferocious. But that doesn't necessarily translate to next year being a big bump from this year. More consistency, hopefully, and a more recognizable identity, but when these younger classes combine with the few good nuggets from the 2015 and 2016 classes I think we'll see real improvement.

The question is whether the rest of the B10 West continues to improve as well. Fleck, for all his hilarious failures this year, has a pretty good recruiting class this year. Wisconsin has its best recruiting class in almost a decade which is not good. Nebraska had a few good classes under Riley that may have as much or more talent than Iowa's 2016 and 2017 classes and with Frost might actually play up to their talent level once he gets settled. And Northwestern is Northwestern still, recruiting middle of the pack B10 squads with a good coaching staff to get them to play better than their talent. Purdue with Brohm? He's not recruiting well yet, but look what he did with a really untalented team. Illinois is the only team that seems to be stuck in reverse.

Overall, that's a good thing in the sense that the B10 West HAD to start getting better. So if Iowa starts winning the West or even coming in second the next few years it could mean a lot more than it did in the past few years. But the competition should get stiffer even as Iowa continues to improve. We'll see, but I like the direction the team is heading right now. Just need to keep the foot on the gas and keep powering forward. We're probably not going to see eye to eye on things like specific classes or specific years, but the important point is that the staff and the team, overall, seems to be energized and hungry again. A win in next week's bowl game will do wonders, too.

 

[onionman1]

Probably butt secks.

troll or not I spit out my beer at that....lolol wow

 

[MeetTheFerentz]

Well I do love Christmas, its a scared special time to me....

Typo of the year

 

[cmhawks99]

Typo of the year

Lol.... so it is I never even noticed sorry

 

[VicHawkeye]

I saw one the other day- 'they were in-sighting violence'

That one could be a wantofbee? The rules are like a TD catch in the NFL who knows anymore. Judges?