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Reagan on tariffs and free trade

If you think that is bad you should hear what the Democrats say about him. Reagan runs opposite of everything the Democrats think they stand for.
Well I’m a free trade fiscal conservative, but also a social liberal. So I think Reagan was absolutely right on some things and dead wrong on others.

In any event, the Dems and their relationship to Reagan aren’t the issue at the moment. It is Trump’s policies that are the issue. If enough conservatives remember their Reagan roots maybe we have a chance to salvage something from this mess. Of course that would require Congress to act, so it’s more likely I’m just pissing in the wind than anything else.
 
Well I’m a free trade fiscal conservative, but also a social liberal. So I think Reagan was absolutely right on some things and dead wrong on others.

In any event, the Dems and their relationship to Reagan aren’t the issue at the moment. It is Trump’s policies that are the issue. If enough conservatives remember their Reagan roots maybe we have a chance to salvage something from this mess. Of course that would require Congress to act, so it’s more likely I’m just pissing in the wind than anything else.
Deporting millions of illegal thugs, trying to end the Ukraine war and fighting for better trade deals is a mess? What did you panic sell your 401K?
 
Deporting millions of illegal thugs, trying to end the Ukraine war and fighting for better trade deals is a mess? What did you panic sell your 401K?
We are talking economic policy here. And no I haven’t sold anything in the last 2 months. I rebalanced out of equities after the market spiked post Trump’s election win. I watched what Buffett was doing and also knew the impact of the coming tariffs. Pretty sure I wrote about that at the time.

I just checked yesterday and my overall portfolio losses are <1/2 the S&P500 losses, but thanks for your concern.
 

Believed in maintaining our alliances with NATO, believed in standing up to Russia, believed in Free Trade, believed in preserving government institutions. Didn't encourage political prosecutions or interfere with the DOJ for political purposes.

Also I believe he provided a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants. Also he believed if you where born here you where a citizen.

He would be called a RINO by the current people in charge of the party.
 
I think one of my least favorite parts about the Trump era has been seeing my fellow left-leaning folks idealizing people like Reagan, Kissinger, Cheney, W, ugh. Trump makes everything worse.
I think that is a little harsh. Before Trump the GOP had some good ideas and some bad ideas - at least in my view. But I also don’t play team politics. I think Dems have some good ideas and bad ideas too.

Now Trump? Awful man with awful policies.
 
I think that is a little harsh. Before Trump the GOP had some good ideas and some bad ideas - at least in my view. But I also don’t play team politics. I think Dems have some good ideas and bad ideas too.

Now Trump? Awful man with awful policies.
I believe there are malicious opportunists who love the fact that much of the left has ramped-down its traditional scrutiny of military intervention and trade, for fear of appearing to align with MAGA.
 
I believe there are malicious opportunists who love the fact that much of the left has ramped-down its traditional scrutiny of military intervention and trade, for fear of appearing to align with MAGA.

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Perish the thought!
 
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I think one of my least favorite parts about the Trump era has been seeing my fellow left-leaning folks idealizing people like Reagan, Kissinger, Cheney, W, ugh. Trump makes everything worse.

I'm currently pretty far left. I voted for Reagan in 1984 and voted for members of the Bush Crime Family six times. Reagan is the pied piper of gutting the middle class. He was masterful at making bad ideas sound compelling. He was also a racist. See his monkey comments from his phone call with Nixon. That said, I will now watch the video in the op,
 
Sure, if the tariff is simply to keep others out that's probably not good. Some of you act as if there aren't tariffs anywhere by anyone else. If it's used as a tactic to attain some other outcome, why not use it?
 
Good shit Travler, I agree there are good points in there specifically thr part about tariffs being a short term tool. I would encourage you to consider this though, how many times does he mention free and fair? We have been the short end of every trade basically since the day he said that.

As you know, something needed to happen. We could not and cannot continue to lose ground to China because we feel like the bad guy asking people for a 50/50.
 
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Good shit Travler, I agree there are good points in there specifically thr part about tariffs being a short term tool. I would encourage you to consider this though, how many times does he mention free and fair? We have been the short end of every trade basically since the day he said that.

As you know, something needed to happen. We could not and cannot continue to lose ground to China because we feel like the bad guy asking people for a 50/50.
If our current “whys” were just a debate over China I could at least understand the debate about tariffs. I’m pretty anti-tariff obviously, but in highly select cases they have their place.

But we decided to tariff literally everything. It is just so obviously stupid. We moved Japan and Korea closer to China in one badly miscalculated decision. And things are just getting going.
 
If our current “whys” were just a debate over China I could at least understand the debate about tariffs. I’m pretty anti-tariff obviously, but in highly select cases they have their place.

But we decided to tariff literally everything. It is just so obviously stupid. We moved Japan and Korea closer to China in one badly miscalculated decision. And things are just getting going.
Honest question, do you think japan will put up with china's quality controls?



IMO, They won't risk their reputation by starting to put a bunch of cheap shit into their name. Hell, look at Toyota. Not a "china" example but they did like a public shaming because the first generation of a new motor they built had some issues.
 
I'm currently pretty far left. I voted for Reagan in 1984 and voted for members of the Bush Crime Family six times. Reagan is the pied piper of gutting the middle class. He was masterful at making bad ideas sound compelling. He was also a racist. See his monkey comments from his phone call with Nixon. That said, I will now watch the video in the op,
IMO it was Reagan’s trickle down policies that were the big issue for the middle class. Trickle down doesn’t work anywhere close to the degree conservatives believe. Free trade was not the issue. Reagan was right sometimes and wrong other times.
 
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Honest question, do you think japan will put up with china's quality controls?
Not sure.

Japan has a stagnant economy and needs export markets that are more open than a heavily tariffed US regime. If China provides cheaper access to their market than the US then I could see Japan and China reaching an agreement.
 
Not sure.

Japan has a stagnant economy and needs export markets that are more open than a heavily tariffed US regime. If China provides cheaper access to their market than the US then I could see Japan and China reaching an agreement.
You may also be underestimating how much those two hate each other also.

Japan is not ignorant to the chinese ways, they know the implications of China getting hooks in you.
 
You may also be underestimating how much those two hate each other also.

Japan is not ignorant to the chinese ways, they know the implications of China getting hooks in you.
I know that is why I am surprised they are even considering this path. And no I don’t think it was simply a PR stunt to stick it to Trump. I think they are really looking at how to limit the damage Trump’s tariffs will cause.
 
Not sure.

Japan has a stagnant economy and needs export markets that are more open than a heavily tariffed US regime. If China provides cheaper access to their market than the US then I could see Japan and China reaching an agreement.
I was actually thinking about the Japenese market specifically last night with my nightcap. That seems like a safe spot for money right now, they really can play the ball however they want.
 
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I was actually thinking about the Japenese market specifically last night with my nightcap. That seems like a safe spot for money right now, they really can play the ball however they want.
Switzerland might be an interesting play, but I haven’t even looked at asset prices in Europe. Probably some safe havens have gotten very pricey in the last week or so. I personally have money parked in municipal bonds, corporate bonds, and treasuries that I am waiting for the right moment to put back in the market. It has provided some insulation from the recent decline, but now I have the problem of when to jump back in.

I timed the exit from equities really well, so I will probably f*ck up the entry.
 
Switzerland might be an interesting play, but I haven’t even looked at asset prices in Europe. Probably some safe havens have gotten very pricey in the last week or so. I personally have money parked in municipal bonds, corporate bonds, and treasuries that I am waiting for the right moment to put back in the market. It has provided some insulation from the recent decline, but now I have the problem of when to jump back in.

I timed the exit from equities really well, so I will probably f*ck up the entry.
Europe was down when I was going to bed but finished up. Idk that I trust any of that part of the world right now. At risk of turning the thread sideways, Europe might be pot committed to pandering to stupidty for awhile. Japan is literally an island.
 
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Good shit Travler, I agree there are good points in there specifically thr part about tariffs being a short term tool. I would encourage you to consider this though, how many times does he mention free and fair? We have been the short end of every trade basically since the day he said that.

As you know, something needed to happen. We could not and cannot continue to lose ground to China because we feel like the bad guy asking people for a 50/50.

We just gave china the golden ticket.
 
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Suppose that depends on how you think this is going to play out but I'm comfortable saying what we were doing was 100% going to result in dying a slow death.
While a side issue for some, if trade with China grinds too low, Taiwan falling to the mainland odds increase. The economic warfare we can enact weapons are gone, and the rest of the world will be involved at their convenience instead of loyalty. China has positioned themselves for this. Xi can quell a lot of naysayers in China with a military win...do we want to teach him that lesson Putin has learned?
 
While a side issue for some, if trade with China grinds too low, Taiwan falling to the mainland odds increase. The economic warfare we can enact weapons are gone, and the rest of the world will be involved at their convenience instead of loyalty. China has positioned themselves for this. Xi can quell a lot of naysayers in China with a military win...do we want to teach him that lesson Putin has learned?


Which is exactly why they were on of the first to get in bed with us.



We have paid for the party and provided security for our guest while taking the short end of every trade for far too long. There multiple components to that sentence. The days of slappy pappy writing blanks checks to make everyone get along, at the expense of the american tax payer are over.
 
Believed in maintaining our alliances with NATO, believed in standing up to Russia, believed in Free Trade, believed in preserving government institutions. Didn't encourage political prosecutions or interfere with the DOJ for political purposes.

Also I believe he provided a pathway to citizenship for illegal immigrants. Also he believed if you where born here you where a citizen.

He would be called a RINO by the current people in charge of the party.
1) Reagan said that NATO was important but he also said that:

"It will require being smart about the weapons and equipment we develop and buy, so we get the best value for our money. I'm pretty tightfisted myself, so I've been glad to see that NATO is taking efficiency seriously."

So he was asking them to be the major part of paying for it and we would help. Over the decades we have become the major plater of paying for it.

2) Everyone wants to stand up to Russia. Trump has pissed Putin off in the past few weeks, so that narrative of Trump being a Putin puppet is mute.

3) In Reagan's day the trade was much more equal than it is today. BTW, Reagan was heavily scorned by the unions about the free trade issue. I remember tons of cars had bumper stickers on them saying "Buy American."

4) Direct quote from Reagan:

“Yes, deficits are a problem. I've been saying so for more than a quarter of a century now. But the problem is not the size of the deficit, it's the size of government's claim on our economy.”​

5) As far as the DOJ, it wasn't used as a weapon against pollical opponents then.

6) Pathway yes. What is pathway (legal means). The border was an issue the Democrats questioned him on back then. They wanted it closed off to perversive jobs. As far as natural born citizens, once again wasn't a problem of the day. That problem came under Bush 2.

So, NO, he would not be considered a Rino today. Reagan had the ability to speak (Trump does not) to get his message across. He also had a Democrat house and senate that was willing to work and come to bipartisan agreements to bills. Trump (in his defense) does not. Everything is just NO.

I truly disagree with the timing of the Tariffs. It should have been a bill written, sent through the house and senate and in a slow manner implemented. But we all know that nothing would have come of it. Right now, the only people really hurt by this is the top 10% money. They own like 80% of the stock market. I'm not sure this is the way, but if what is being said actually happens like he claims, the middle class are going to have a hay day. But until then, 401's are going to really suck and people who were counting on retiring with a good nest egg are screwed.
 


Which is exactly why they were on of the first to get in bed with us.



We have paid for the party and provided security for our guest while taking the short end of every trade for far too long. There multiple components to that sentence. The days of slappy pappy writing blanks checks to make everyone get along, at the expense of the american tax payer are over.
Taiwan pays quite well for western weapons. They are the most unique democratic government, and our best weapon against the Chinese way of business. This is not a simple region geopolitically.
 
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Taiwan pays quite well for western weapons. They are the most unique democratic government, and our best weapon against the Chinese way of business. This is not a simple region geopolitically.
That's not where you started this. Where you started was by implying the tariffs were going to lead to losing Taiwan, which isn't going to happen.
 
I think one of my least favorite parts about the Trump era has been seeing my fellow left-leaning folks idealizing people like Reagan, Kissinger, Cheney, W, ugh. Trump makes everything worse.

I blame all of those guys for setting the stage for what is happening now. I also don't absolve the neoliberal left for helping set the stage.
 
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