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Recruiting Strategy

MVPFAN

HR Legend
Mar 10, 2003
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I dislike Carl as much as the next guy but he isn't a dummy. He knows titles are won and lost by high end point scorers and that if he has at least four 20+ point scorers that he is in the conversation every year. Ryan has jumped onto that train as well. PSU consistently signs guys you expect to be money and you are more surprised if they aren't. We previously were not even in title discussion due to a "quantity over quality" philosophy that generally yields mid to low AAs and an occasional diamond who ends up contending. Changes were made and we managed to sign an elite guy in Spencer. Bull, Warner and Cass were at least in that top 10 pfp area, possibly Kem too without looking. Even with those guys we had giant lineup holes that we were very fortunate to fill with ADS and Eierman and Lugo. I love the fight in guys like Murin, Young, Brands etc but you are not winning any titles with a team of those type guys only, needs the big guns.

Moving forward on paper we got Ayala and Kennedy in house as top end guys I expect to be legit title contenders. Commit Nate Jesuroga in the same category. Guys like Henson, Rathjen, Schriever, Reyna, Ybarra and committed Riggins, Kueter, Block and Franklin you are hopeful they can jump to that level. The rest you hope to find a rare diamond who greatly exceeds expectations based on current level. A team filled with top end "I expect this guy to contend for titles" recruits is going to have an easier time than a team with a couple of those guys and a lot of hope. We need to get guys like Arnold and Shapiro if we want to keep up with the Joneses, otherwise we seem to be drifting back to a strategy that yielded 3rd and 4th place finishes.
 
Wow you've really cracked there. Recruit the best guys. LOL. I'm just giving you a hard time! I feel like recruiting is really a momentum game hopefully we a rolling. The best coaches get the best guys and develop their full potential.
 
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I dislike Carl as much as the next guy but he isn't a dummy. He knows titles are won and lost by high end point scorers and that if he has at least four 20+ point scorers that he is in the conversation every year. Ryan has jumped onto that train as well. PSU consistently signs guys you expect to be money and you are more surprised if they aren't. We previously were not even in title discussion due to a "quantity over quality" philosophy that generally yields mid to low AAs and an occasional diamond who ends up contending. Changes were made and we managed to sign an elite guy in Spencer. Bull, Warner and Cass were at least in that top 10 pfp area, possibly Kem too without looking. Even with those guys we had giant lineup holes that we were very fortunate to fill with ADS and Eierman and Lugo. I love the fight in guys like Murin, Young, Brands etc but you are not winning any titles with a team of those type guys only, needs the big guns.

Moving forward on paper we got Ayala and Kennedy in house as top end guys I expect to be legit title contenders. Commit Nate Jesuroga in the same category. Guys like Henson, Rathjen, Schriever, Reyna, Ybarra and committed Riggins, Kueter, Block and Franklin you are hopeful they can jump to that level. The rest you hope to find a rare diamond who greatly exceeds expectations based on current level. A team filled with top end "I expect this guy to contend for titles" recruits is going to have an easier time than a team with a couple of those guys and a lot of hope. We need to get guys like Arnold and Shapiro if we want to keep up with the Joneses, otherwise we seem to be drifting back to a strategy that yielded 3rd and 4th place finishes.
Do you think the Iowa strategy is to focus on guys that aren't top 10 PFP recruits? To get a lot of good wrestlers and forego the great ones? I doubt that is true. I would assume Iowa focuses on those guys as much as the other top programs, but Iowa might not have the pull of an Ohio State (due to overall success of its sports programs) or a Penn State (due to recent success in wrestling and its in state recruits) generally, and you will always lose some top 10 PFP guys to schools like Cornell, Stanford and Michigan for academic reasons. I don't disagree with the importance of bringing in top guys, but I don't think it's a secret to anyone.
 
Do you think the Iowa strategy is to focus on guys that aren't top 10 PFP recruits? To get a lot of good wrestlers and forego the great ones? I doubt that is true. I would assume Iowa focuses on those guys as much as the other top programs, but Iowa might not have the pull of an Ohio State (due to overall success of its sports programs) or a Penn State (due to recent success in wrestling and its in state recruits) generally, and you will always lose some top 10 PFP guys to schools like Cornell, Stanford and Michigan for academic reasons. I don't disagree with the importance of bringing in top guys, but I don't think it's a secret to anyone.
Frankly we shouldn't be taking a back seat to anyone when it comes to getting top end guys. If we are then something is not being done correctly.
 
Frankly we shouldn't be taking a back seat to anyone when it comes to getting top end guys. If we are then something is not being done correctly.
While I agree there are certain things that are totally out of TnT's control. It will always be hard to pull the guys that are most gifted academically from Princeton and Cornell. An Ivy League education opens doors that an degree from Iowa never will. It's going to be hard to draw guys that live on the East Coast to Iowa City Iowa vs going to State College Pennsylvania. Some guys just to want to that far away from home. It would have been hard to get me to go that far away at 18. It's going to be hard to get guys from the West Coast to come to Iowa City for the same reason especially when you have an up an coming program at ASU. These are just facts we have to recruit around them.
 
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While I agree there are certain things that are totally out of TnT's control. It will always be hard to pull the guys that are most gifted academically from Princeton and Cornell. An Ivy League education opens doors that an degree from Iowa never will. It's going to be hard to draw guys that live on the East Coast to Iowa City Iowa vs going to State College Pennsylvania. Some guys just to want to that far away from home. It would have been hard to get me to go that far away at 18. It's going to be hard to get guys from the West Coast to come to Iowa City for the same reason especially when you have an up an coming program at ASU. These are just facts we have to recruit around them.
Agree things can be out of TnT's control. Could also be TnT's inability to know or care about what it takes to consistently get the top 10 P4P kids. I mean it took Spencer Lee and his black binder to wake them up a little.
 
I dislike Carl as much as the next guy but he isn't a dummy. He knows titles are won and lost by high end point scorers and that if he has at least four 20+ point scorers that he is in the conversation every year. Ryan has jumped onto that train as well. PSU consistently signs guys you expect to be money and you are more surprised if they aren't. We previously were not even in title discussion due to a "quantity over quality" philosophy that generally yields mid to low AAs and an occasional diamond who ends up contending. Changes were made and we managed to sign an elite guy in Spencer. Bull, Warner and Cass were at least in that top 10 pfp area, possibly Kem too without looking. Even with those guys we had giant lineup holes that we were very fortunate to fill with ADS and Eierman and Lugo. I love the fight in guys like Murin, Young, Brands etc but you are not winning any titles with a team of those type guys only, needs the big guns.

Moving forward on paper we got Ayala and Kennedy in house as top end guys I expect to be legit title contenders. Commit Nate Jesuroga in the same category. Guys like Henson, Rathjen, Schriever, Reyna, Ybarra and committed Riggins, Kueter, Block and Franklin you are hopeful they can jump to that level. The rest you hope to find a rare diamond who greatly exceeds expectations based on current level. A team filled with top end "I expect this guy to contend for titles" recruits is going to have an easier time than a team with a couple of those guys and a lot of hope. We need to get guys like Arnold and Shapiro if we want to keep up with the Joneses, otherwise we seem to be drifting back to a strategy that yielded 3rd and 4th place finishes.
Spot on. I hope Spencer Lee is in Tom's will, because had we lost him to Penn State Tom might be selling insurance in Sheldon right now. We're in a much better place than we were in 2011-2017, but we've always trailed Cael in recruiting and we can't pretend that we've solved it. (Even with improved recruiting, we won our first title in 10+ years by virtue of an unexpected gift transfer named Eierman.)

We've had some top guys not deliver the expected points (Dziewa, Moore, Evans), we were blind to some of the recruiting tactics by others (the black binder), and we did indeed have (and still have) a habit of landing #20 guys instead of #1-2-3 guys (e.g. Ybarra, Schriever, Henson, Rathjen, Reyna, Glazier).

Ayala and Kennedy and Jesuroga (60 points) will keep us in the hunt. But we're still reliant on a stud or two from the transfer portal, plus a surge into the top 3 from at least 2 guys noted above by their sophomore seasons.

If it were easy, everyone would coach NCAA championship teams.
 
Frankly we shouldn't be taking a back seat to anyone when it comes to getting top end guys. If we are then something is not being done correctly.
Money and proximity are helpful no doubt. Iowa High School Wrestling appears to be on the rise again, thankfully, and Iowa controls that narrative. We will see in due time how they fare in College, but collectively they are a pretty accomplished group with tons of potential IMO. That formula has worked well in the past, and sprinkle in a Banach and a Kistler here and there and you're golden.

That said, Iowa has always recruited well Nationally and will continue to do so in my lifetime anyway. You don't have to grow up a Hawkeye fan in any far away State as a wrestler, but a sold out show(s) in Carver Hawkeye (and on the road) has to have some allure I would think when you're looking into College Wrestling. If you like fans cheering you on, it literally doesn't get any better than that.
 
We aren't in that different of a situation than PSU, despite them having four returning champions they still turned to the portal and still have holes in their lineup. Also, you never know who's coming down the pipeline. Look at cenzo. New studs come in and guys move around. I feel pretty comfortable saying Brooks and Star will not both win four titles. Could be wrong, we'll see.
 
Spot on. I hope Spencer Lee is in Tom's will, because had we lost him to Penn State Tom might be selling insurance in Sheldon right now. We're in a much better place than we were in 2011-2017, but we've always trailed Cael in recruiting and we can't pretend that we've solved it. (Even with improved recruiting, we won our first title in 10+ years by virtue of an unexpected gift transfer named Eierman.)

We've had some top guys not deliver the expected points (Dziewa, Moore, Evans), we were blind to some of the recruiting tactics by others (the black binder), and we did indeed have (and still have) a habit of landing #20 guys instead of #1-2-3 guys (e.g. Ybarra, Schriever, Henson, Rathjen, Reyna, Glazier).

Ayala and Kennedy and Jesuroga (60 points) will keep us in the hunt. But we're still reliant on a stud or two from the transfer portal, plus a surge into the top 3 from at least 2 guys noted above by their sophomore seasons.

If it were easy, everyone would coach NCAA championship teams.
Well, with any luck Spencer Lee is the gift that keeps on giving as it relates to the University of Iowa. You literally couldn't have a better ambassador for this particular sport, very much Dan Gable like in that regard, IMHO.
 
Well, with any luck Spencer Lee is the gift that keeps on giving as it relates to the University of Iowa. You literally couldn't have a better ambassador for this particular sport, very much Dan Gable like in that regard, IMHO.
Yeah, there were a few other guys over the years I thought we had to keep around the room and have moved on. But Spencer is different. If he moved on it would be a big blow.
 
I think part of the issue is too many of the "top tier" kids make the easy decision when choosing a college, versus the RIGHT one. They see their friends sign with the other big programs, and then jump on the bandwagon. I mean come on, everyone knows that tOSU's recruiting haul is monumental, however, what do you do with the log jam of all those top kids that will be sitting at the same weight classes?

Everyone questioned why in the world Lee signed with Iowa. (myself included) but the reality was that he KNEW exactly what he was doing and why! His message and story is the one that needs to be shared and delivered to the top kids. Because it's the WHY that will make them truly consider what their choice will be; The easy one.....or the Right one.

Just my two cents, that really isn't worth a penny. . . .
 
Yeah, there were a few other guys over the years I thought we had to keep around the room and have moved on. But Spencer is different. If he moved on it would be a big blow.
It's hard to keep them all, that's for certain. Penn State will run into the same problem.

We still do have a Hodge Trophy winner and complete badass in Mark Ironside who is pretty aligned with The Program to this day. He is most definitely a gift that keeps on giving, IMO. Great on the radio, holds back nothing, calls it like it is and bleeds Black and Gold. Love it.

And then there's that Dan Gable fella........🙂
 
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I think part of the issue is too many of the "top tier" kids make the easy decision when choosing a college, versus the RIGHT one. They see their friends sign with the other big programs, and then jump on the bandwagon. I mean come on, everyone knows that tOSU's recruiting haul is monumental, however, what do you do with the log jam of all those top kids that will be sitting at the same weight classes?

Everyone questioned why in the world Lee signed with Iowa. (myself included) but the reality was that he KNEW exactly what he was doing and why! His message and story is the one that needs to be shared and delivered to the top kids. Because it's the WHY that will make them truly consider what their choice will be; The easy one.....or the Right one.

Just my two cents, that really isn't worth a penny. . . .
For the record Coach, we Hawkeye Fans did NOT question why Spencer Lee signed with Iowa. We knew all along it was a brilliant decision on Spencer's and his Families part! 🙂

Now relative to the Arnold Family, the odds of attending a Rocky Mountain Oyster feed are a hell of a lot better in Iowa than elsewhere. Food for thought........(no pun intended! Ha!).
 
I think part of the issue is too many of the "top tier" kids make the easy decision when choosing a college, versus the RIGHT one. They see their friends sign with the other big programs, and then jump on the bandwagon. I mean come on, everyone knows that tOSU's recruiting haul is monumental, however, what do you do with the log jam of all those top kids that will be sitting at the same weight classes?

Everyone questioned why in the world Lee signed with Iowa. (myself included) but the reality was that he KNEW exactly what he was doing and why! His message and story is the one that needs to be shared and delivered to the top kids. Because it's the WHY that will make them truly consider what their choice will be; The easy one.....or the Right one.

Just my two cents, that really isn't worth a penny. . . .
I’m glad your son has been given the correct guidance to make the right choice and not the easy one (they may be the same).
 
*writes down furiously* recruit best wrestlers in the country to win the most titles. Oh my God this is it, you've cracked the case. I'll get this straight to the brands brothers!
 
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I’m glad your son has been given the correct guidance to make the right choice and not the easy one (they may be the same).
Trust me. He's made the right choice. And it wasn't easy. Of that I can assure you. He suffered a couple losses today at Powerade. First time he has lost twice in the same day.....EVER. But it's days like today, for me, that solidifies the choice he will make. Everyone loses. That will NEVER change. However, what you learn, and what those losses stir in you should only drive you in your quest to become the best. But being the best right now, in HS doesn't matter. I believe his college choice will do nothing but get him to the exact point he needs to be to claim the ultimate prizes he is chasing.
 
I think part of the issue is too many of the "top tier" kids make the easy decision when choosing a college, versus the RIGHT one. They see their friends sign with the other big programs, and then jump on the bandwagon. I mean come on, everyone knows that tOSU's recruiting haul is monumental, however, what do you do with the log jam of all those top kids that will be sitting at the same weight classes?

Everyone questioned why in the world Lee signed with Iowa. (myself included) but the reality was that he KNEW exactly what he was doing and why! His message and story is the one that needs to be shared and delivered to the top kids. Because it's the WHY that will make them truly consider what their choice will be; The easy one.....or the Right one.

Just my two cents, that really isn't worth a penny. . . .
Brilliantly said. The right choice isn't always the popular or even obvious choice (and isn't always Iowa, even though I'd prefer it that way). A lot of thought should be put into the decision, and IMHO any "gut feelings" should be factored into the decision as well. Spencer is a little different than other "top tier" kids. The log jam situation simply wasn't going to come in to play with him, but there were a lot of other factors to consider. A major part of Spencer's decision was Terry Brands. And that definitely paid off his sophomore year. Circumstances don't matter at this point, but Terry's management of Lee that season is a big reason why Spencer won the title. Larry doesn't hide his appreciation either.
 
*writes down furiously* recruit best wrestlers in the country to win the most titles. Oh my God this is it, you've cracked the case. I'll get this straight to the brands brothers!
Well, they’ve talked a lot about recruiting those who best fit the team in the past. Id like to see them make more serious runs top pfp guys by offering that tier full rides.

The points lost by a walk on aren’t that much different than someone from that log jam of top 30 guys who get listed three or four per weight.
 
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Trust me. He's made the right choice. And it wasn't easy. Of that I can assure you. He suffered a couple losses today at Powerade. First time he has lost twice in the same day.....EVER. But it's days like today, for me, that solidifies the choice he will make. Everyone loses. That will NEVER change. However, what you learn, and what those losses stir in you should only drive you in your quest to become the best. But being the best right now, in HS doesn't matter. I believe his college choice will do nothing but get him to the exact point he needs to be to claim the ultimate prizes he is chasing.
Well Coach, I think I can speak for entire cesspool when I say if Gabe goes anywhere other than Iowa, he will always have a gang of fans here. Conversely, if it is indeed Iowa, he will obviously have an incredible amount of support. Regardless, I hope you’re never a stranger here.
 
Jesuroga, Ayala, Henson and Kennedy are enough to take any team very far in an NCAA tournament. All four could be champs in their time.

1-2 of these home grown kids turn into mid-level AA’s and you’re right back where you need to be. I don’t think Iowa is falling behind at all.
 
I dislike Carl as much as the next guy but he isn't a dummy. He knows titles are won and lost by high end point scorers and that if he has at least four 20+ point scorers that he is in the conversation every year. Ryan has jumped onto that train as well. PSU consistently signs guys you expect to be money and you are more surprised if they aren't. We previously were not even in title discussion due to a "quantity over quality" philosophy that generally yields mid to low AAs and an occasional diamond who ends up contending. Changes were made and we managed to sign an elite guy in Spencer. Bull, Warner and Cass were at least in that top 10 pfp area, possibly Kem too without looking. Even with those guys we had giant lineup holes that we were very fortunate to fill with ADS and Eierman and Lugo. I love the fight in guys like Murin, Young, Brands etc but you are not winning any titles with a team of those type guys only, needs the big guns.

Moving forward on paper we got Ayala and Kennedy in house as top end guys I expect to be legit title contenders. Commit Nate Jesuroga in the same category. Guys like Henson, Rathjen, Schriever, Reyna, Ybarra and committed Riggins, Kueter, Block and Franklin you are hopeful they can jump to that level. The rest you hope to find a rare diamond who greatly exceeds expectations based on current level. A team filled with top end "I expect this guy to contend for titles" recruits is going to have an easier time than a team with a couple of those guys and a lot of hope. We need to get guys like Arnold and Shapiro if we want to keep up with the Joneses, otherwise we seem to be drifting back to a strategy that yielded 3rd and 4th place finishes.

whatyearisit-cardiac.gif
 
Jesuroga, Ayala, Henson and Kennedy are enough to take any team very far in an NCAA tournament. All four could be champs in their time.

1-2 of these home grown kids turn into mid-level AA’s and you’re right back where you need to be. I don’t think Iowa is falling behind at all.
This. And I think Riggins and Block are WAY undersold as well.
 
Trust me. He's made the right choice. And it wasn't easy. Of that I can assure you. He suffered a couple losses today at Powerade. First time he has lost twice in the same day.....EVER. But it's days like today, for me, that solidifies the choice he will make. Everyone loses. That will NEVER change. However, what you learn, and what those losses stir in you should only drive you in your quest to become the best. But being the best right now, in HS doesn't matter. I believe his college choice will do nothing but get him to the exact point he needs to be to claim the ultimate prizes he is chasing.
There’s a dude that lost 2x at the NCAAs once, and he turned out pretty well. Name’s Jden Cox. Think you’ve probably heard of him 😉. I have no doubt Gabe will be a hammer in college no matter where he goes as long as he wants to and keeps working. Like Gobblin said, we’d all love him to come here(hopefully that’s the “right” choice) but he will still be an HR favorite. And hopefully you’re a regular here no matter what. Larry Early II was a regular poster on here and really one of the best. Even when LEIII was at Minny and ODU. Always had supporters here.
 
Arnold really doesn’t fit in your national contender right away profile. Dude is overrated af. Good not great.
I usually don’t respond to dribble like this, but today I’ll share this: Eight years ago the exact same thing was said about another wrestler in our family. “He was overrated, he won’t do anything in college, he’s not beaten anyone important”. 3 NCAA titles, an Olympic medal, a couple world titles later….

It will always amaze me that people will bash kids they’ve never met and know nothing about, hiding behind the anonymity of a keyboard That for whatever reason will form opinions that really have no basis. Maybe it’s a form of reverse psychology to push or navigate a decision one way or another. Who knows. Better yet, you cares? However, I will tell you this, your comment had been printed to be added to a board this kid maintains. You’re not the first, and I hope not the last to add fuel to his fire.
Never forget this simple truth, It’s Just Wrestling.
 
There’s a dude that lost 2x at the NCAAs once, and he turned out pretty well. Name’s Jden Cox. Think you’ve probably heard of him 😉. I have no doubt Gabe will be a hammer in college no matter where he goes as long as he wants to and keeps working. Like Gobblin said, we’d all love him to come here(hopefully that’s the “right” choice) but he will still be an HR favorite. And hopefully you’re a regular here no matter what. Larry Early II was a regular poster on here and really one of the best. Even when LEIII was at Minny and ODU. Always had supporters here.
Regardless of his choice, I’ll still be right here. I’ve kinda enjoyed the banter. 😂. Well, most of it at least.
 
If the next generation of Iowa wrestlers can maintain the top perch, we will all owe a big debt of gratitude to TJ Sebolt. I'm just an observer from afar, but it seems as though his club has been instrumental in closing the gap with PA in terms of high-end wrestling talent.
No doubt about it.
 
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If the next generation of Iowa wrestlers can maintain the top perch, we will all owe a big debt of gratitude to TJ Sebolt. I'm just an observer from afar, but it seems as though his club has been instrumental in closing the gap with PA in terms of high-end wrestling talent.
Is Sebolt no longer an assistant at NIACC?
 
Well, they’ve talked a lot about recruiting those who best fit the team in the past. Id like to see them make more serious runs top pfp guys by offering that tier full rides.

The points lost by a walk on aren’t that much different than someone from that log jam of top 30 guys who get listed three or four per weight.
And how exactly do you know we aren't going for those guys?

If you wanna talk about flaws in how we recruit or something like that, or why we're missing out on so many top recruits, that's a discussion I can understand. But if you think TnT don't pull hard for the top guys at all you're crazy.

That being said there are definitely certain guys that we have no interest in due to a stark difference in culture/attitude. Trying to go for any top p4p guys regardless of their questionable fit with our style of program is how you end up with wasted full rides of guys who transfer out or ruin the team/family culture that we've built with this past haul of recruits.
 
I usually don’t respond to dribble like this, but today I’ll share this: Eight years ago the exact same thing was said about another wrestler in our family. “He was overrated, he won’t do anything in college, he’s not beaten anyone important”. 3 NCAA titles, an Olympic medal, a couple world titles later….

It will always amaze me that people will bash kids they’ve never met and know nothing about, hiding behind the anonymity of a keyboard That for whatever reason will form opinions that really have no basis. Maybe it’s a form of reverse psychology to push or navigate a decision one way or another. Who knows. Better yet, you cares? However, I will tell you this, your comment had been printed to be added to a board this kid maintains. You’re not the first, and I hope not the last to add fuel to his fire.
Never forget this simple truth, It’s Just Wrestling.
I hope you have been here long enough to realize that curtisloew is not a Hawkeye fan and quite often makes ridiculous comments just for entertainment value to himself! Wish your son well wherever he ends up,
 
Part of the challenge for Iowa was Iowa high school wrestling sucked since Cory Clark years. It's improved dramatically, but the numbers are still lower than we'd probably like.

TnT still need portal guys to fill gaps, imo.
I’ve often wondered about coaches strategies when it comes to the portal. Is it safe to bank on it and assume there will be a high level guy at a weight of need every offseason? Do coaches have a good idea of who will be entering the portal before they even enter it? Are there kids that see a glaring need at a place like Iowa, Penn State, Okie State etc and enter the portal just to jump on the bandwagon?
 
I don’t think a lot of guys understand the limitations that 9.9 scholarships impose. As fans we want our teams to land every top 10 P4P kid available. In reality a lot of times our teams don’t even make a lot of those kids a substantial financial offer.
 
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I usually don’t respond to dribble like this, but today I’ll share this: Eight years ago the exact same thing was said about another wrestler in our family. “He was overrated, he won’t do anything in college, he’s not beaten anyone important”. 3 NCAA titles, an Olympic medal, a couple world titles later….

It will always amaze me that people will bash kids they’ve never met and know nothing about, hiding behind the anonymity of a keyboard That for whatever reason will form opinions that really have no basis. Maybe it’s a form of reverse psychology to push or navigate a decision one way or another. Who knows. Better yet, you cares? However, I will tell you this, your comment had been printed to be added to a board this kid maintains. You’re not the first, and I hope not the last to add fuel to his fire.
Never forget this simple truth, It’s Just Wrestling.
Curtis is self admitted to not be an Iowa fan FYI.
 
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