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RECRUITING

chuck285

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Jan 4, 2017
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Is there any way to find out how many scholarships have been used by Iowa, Penn St. and Ohio St. this year? And which recruit has one or a partial ride?
I know they have 9 each??Is that the most they can have in use at one time? Is there such a thing as a grey shirt like in football? And does a coach like Brands get to send his son to Iowa on a free ride because he works for the university?
 
In short, the scholarship information is not public. But there is plenty of speculation as to who gets what from a scholarship %. Also, not all programs are "fully funded". I will let someone else go into more detail on that.
 
Every school in DI can at most use 9.9 athletic scholarships in any given year. How they break those scholarships down is up to the coach. Now, that is the maximum, some programs do not offer the full 9.9 scholarships. This is because of limits imposed by their respective athletic departments, not the NCAA sans programs when they are being punished for previous violations. This is normally because of either funding issues or compliance issues with Title IX.

Schools can also offer need based financial aid and unlimited academic scholarships, so long as those scholarships are available to every member of the study body who meets the academic qualifications.

Now, there are some real questions and loop holes with financial assistance being offered to wrestlers competing during a grey shirt or a red shirt year from an organization that supports "the sport," but only seems to support wrestlers that are competing for a certain school...cough cough...Penn State...cough cough. We will see the NCAA making some official policy regarding that situation quite soon. Penn State will not get in any trouble or be punished, but you can tell by Cael's comments that he is uncomfortable discussing the topic and even nervous. According to the current administrators what is going on is not against the rules. However, most people recognize that this is a loophole and the NCAA will be closing this loophole soon. I am surprised Iowa, Ohio State, and Oklahoma State's boosters aren't taking advantage while it is still open. Although, I understand why they delayed, as it could have easily be interpreted as a serious violation resulting in serious sanctions and devastate a program's future.

Jojo Smith's full ride scholarship does not count against OSU's 9.9.
Jake Ryan's full ride scholarship does not count against tOSU's 9.9
Jordan Roselli is a Junior and he is going to be wrestling for OU on a full scholarship whether he wants to wrestle in DI or not. He is a quality wrestler, Ironman placer, State Placer, but not a State Champ. Similar to Jake Ryan, who was also never a State Champ.

As long as the school offers that benefit to all employees, than it is not a violation. All three of the above mentioned schools do. This is the reason it was rumored several programs were offering St. Paris Graham's High School Coach, Jeff Jordan, an assistant coach position when his son Bo Jordan was in High School still. This would have given a school: Bo, Micah, and current HS Junior and nationally ranked Rocky Jordan, full scholarships while leaving the full 9.9 available to sign other recruits. That would have been huge advantage for that program. It obviously did not come to fruition.
 
Every school in DI can at most use 9.9 athletic scholarships in any given year. How they break those scholarships down is up to the coach. Now, that is the maximum, some programs do not offer the full 9.9 scholarships. This is because of limits imposed by their respective athletic departments, not the NCAA sans programs when they are being punished for previous violations. This is normally because of either funding issues or compliance issues with Title IX.

Schools can also offer need based financial aid and unlimited academic scholarships, so long as those scholarships are available to every member of the study body who meets the academic qualifications.

Now, there are some real questions and loop holes with financial assistance being offered to wrestlers competing during a grey shirt or a red shirt year from an organization that supports "the sport," but only seems to support wrestlers that are competing for a certain school...cough cough...Penn State...cough cough. We will see the NCAA making some official policy regarding that situation quite soon. Penn State will not get in any trouble or be punished, but you can tell by Cael's comments that he is uncomfortable discussing the topic and even nervous. According to the current administrators what is going on is not against the rules. However, most people recognize that this is a loophole and the NCAA will be closing this loophole soon. I am surprised Iowa, Ohio State, and Oklahoma State's boosters aren't taking advantage while it is still open. Although, I understand why they delayed, as it could have easily be interpreted as a serious violation resulting in serious sanctions and devastate a program's future.

Jojo Smith's full ride scholarship does not count against OSU's 9.9.
Jake Ryan's full ride scholarship does not count against tOSU's 9.9
Jordan Roselli is a Junior and he is going to be wrestling for OU on a full scholarship whether he wants to wrestle in DI or not. He is a quality wrestler, Ironman placer, State Placer, but not a State Champ. Similar to Jake Ryan, who was also never a State Champ.

As long as the school offers that benefit to all employees, than it is not a violation. All three of the above mentioned schools do. This is the reason it was rumored several programs were offering St. Paris Graham's High School Coach, Jeff Jordan, an assistant coach position when his son Bo Jordan was in High School still. This would have given a school: Bo, Micah, and current HS Junior and nationally ranked Rocky Jordan, full scholarships while leaving the full 9.9 available to sign other recruits. That would have been huge advantage for that program. It obviously did not come to fruition.
Fascinating! How do you know all this?
 
Fascinating! How do you know all this?

Don't wanna speak for JustWrestle, but he is extremely connected to some of the higher ups in the NCAA... I've heard some of the same things, but I'll admit I have no idea how solid the info is. JustWrestle just confirmed some of the things I've heard. Where there's smoke, there's gotta be fire.
 
Don't wanna speak for JustWrestle, but he is extremely connected to some of the higher ups in the NCAA... I've heard some of the same things, but I'll admit I have no idea how solid the info is. JustWrestle just confirmed some of the things I've heard. Where there's smoke, there's gotta be fire.
Gotta be.

I totally believe unbiased Iowa fans on this subject
 
We may have bias, sure... But I can assure you the source of his info doesn't.

Hopefully not the same source that told him Quentin Wright was a troublemaker.

I think the key fact is that whatever is rumored to be happening isn't against the rules apparently. Everything else is paranoia
 
I think the key fact is that whatever is rumored to be happening isn't against the rules apparently. Everything else is paranoia

Perhaps the key fact is that whatever is rumored to be happening is a loophole that will soon be closed...............NO?
 
Perhaps. I'll still take Cael recruiting straight up over the Brands and Morningstar any day.

Going out on a limb are you............?
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Give us time............might catch up a bit.
 
Also of note some schools states such as Oklahoma and Ohio offer in state tuition to out of state recruits. I don't understand why Iowa doesn't do this. Maybe someone on here has the connections to get that changed:)
 
Jojo Smith's full ride scholarship does not count against OSU's 9.9.


As long as the school offers that benefit to all employees, than it is not a violation. All three of the above mentioned schools do. .

OSU does not offer free tuition to dependents, (not even a reduction at this time, although they say it's coming) if that is what you are implying. I doubt Joseph is getting a full ride also.
 
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Is there any way to find out how many scholarships have been used by Iowa, Penn St. and Ohio St. this year? And which recruit has one or a partial ride?
I know they have 9 each??Is that the most they can have in use at one time? Is there such a thing as a grey shirt like in football? And does a coach like Brands get to send his son to Iowa on a free ride because he works for the university?
The last I knew, which was a while ago, UI employee's kids don't get free tuition.
 
Unless someone is willing to go into extreme detail about what these supposed loopholes are, it's probably best left unsaid. At this point it's nothing but an unsubstantiated claim by an anonymous message board poster.
 
Eye opening stuff from Just Wreste. Much appreciated. Regarding the psu loopholes, it makes perfect sense.
Money talks. You don't get that many blue chip recruits without venturing into the shaded gray area. I don't care what psu fans say, there can't be that many financially independent wrestling parents out there who are willing to let their kids pay to wrestle when they could get full rides somewhere else. Some? Yes. An entire up and down roster of them? Highly unlikely which is where this loophole comes in.
Give Carl credit for working the system. I'm glad they are working to level the playing field.
Carl is out recruiting everyone, yes. But in the future, the almighty dollar might prove to be the difference of whether the #2 pfp kid goes to psu or somewhere else.
 
My memory isn't that good anymore, but I vaguely recall Gable "exploiting loopholes" during the Iowa powerhouse days, no? If nothing illegal is happening, then how is this any different (if there is any truth to this rumor at all)?
 
My memory isn't that good anymore, but I vaguely recall Gable "exploiting loopholes" during the Iowa powerhouse days, no? If nothing illegal is happening, then how is this any different (if there is any truth to this rumor at all)?
It's not and I don't think I've seen anybody saying anything to the contrary. Difference I believe (and someone with a better memory of the events can correct me) I think Iowa faced some sanctions after, where as Penn State will not? Not trying to sound indignant, simply looking for clarification.
 
Important thing is to get rid of the loopholes so that everybody is competing on the same level of $ to the wrestlers (then and now).
 
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In 2013, I was told by an ISU wrestler, that the team had only two full rides to give out. Title IX being the reason stated to why. I have no idea if that was true, but that always struck me as being very, very, low for an ISU program.
 
My memory isn't that good anymore, but I vaguely recall Gable "exploiting loopholes" during the Iowa powerhouse days, no? If nothing illegal is happening, then how is this any different (if there is any truth to this rumor at all)?
You care to elaborate on just how Gable was doing that...or is your memory just not that good. My memory is very good and I was here, so enlighten me.
 
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Gable did get in trouble on this matter. Iowa had to reduce # of scholarships for a few years as a penalty.
 
Iowa's did not receive any scholarship reduction.
Iowa took number of scholarships × value of out of state full ride to calculate scholarship money available. They then used that amount to pay for their student-athlete funding, in-state and out of state alike.
 
You care to elaborate on just how Gable was doing that...or is your memory just not that good. My memory is very good and I was here, so enlighten me.
Iowa's did not receive any scholarship reduction.
Iowa took number of scholarships × value of out of state full ride to calculate scholarship money available. They then used that amount to pay for their student-athlete funding, in-state and out of state alike.

I think this cut and paste from another post pretty much sums it up. Does that ring a bell?
 
Gable did get in trouble on this matter. Iowa had to reduce # of scholarships for a few years as a penalty.
I think you really don't know what took place or you just conveniently haven't mentioned it. The facts are: the Big Ten Conference mis calculated the amount of scholarship money and each big ten team had to reduce their scholarship numbers. That is why there was no NCAA sanctions. Was not an Iowa or a Gable thing! You might want to double check what you cut and paste....then decide if its the complete set of facts.
 
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Iowa's did not receive any scholarship reduction.
Iowa took number of scholarships × value of out of state full ride to calculate scholarship money available. They then used that amount to pay for their student-athlete funding, in-state and out of state alike.
As did other members of the conference as it was the conference office that made the miscalculation. Nice try though.
 
Cael got some fine recruits while at ISU, but his recruiting at PSU is positively off the charts. I always assumed that getting a guy, nationally ranked #1 at his weight class would generally require a full ride or certainly close to it.

A look at PSU's current team and where they ranked in their HS weight class:

125 Suriano #1
133 Cortez #1
141 Gulibon #1
149 Retherford #1
157 Nolf #1
165 Joseph #1
174 Hall #1
184 Nolf #1
197 McCutch #4
Hwt Nevills #1

backups and incoming recruits:
N Lee #1
Manville #2
Berge #1
Bravo Young #2
Wittlake #2

Not accusing Cael of using loopholes, but looking at the quality of top recruits PSU gets, one can't help but wonder what the magic formula is. No one comes remotely close to this.

If there really is a loophole that is being exploited, it needs to be addressed. I would assume everyone wants a level playing field.
 
Also of note some schools states such as Oklahoma and Ohio offer in state tuition to out of state recruits. I don't understand why Iowa doesn't do this.

It's not up to the university of Iowa, instate residency requirements are under state statute which varies from state to state for public universities.
 
Follow up on last post:

Wrestlers in the past have moved here and taken under 12 credits, so they're a part time student and thus don't start their eligability clock. Some call this a greyshirt, its how Cornell gets around Ivy league no RS rules. You can do this while still working out at HWC or other RTC's, while establishing in state residency. You do have to have good credentials to be able to participate in RTC practices, which are set by USA wrestling.

I am actually surprised we don't see this more. Over four or five years, the difference in in-state vs out-of-state tuition ends up being a ton of money.
 
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Here's the problem that needs to be rectified. In no other sport is recruiting based on instate or out of state tuition costs. The team has X number of scholarshipe to use in any one year and a sum total for the team. Why pentalize those wrestling teams who recruit out of state by necessity and give advantages to those who can recruit in state?
 
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I think you really don't know what took place or you just conveniently haven't mentioned it. The facts are: the Big Ten Conference mis calculated the amount of scholarship money and each big ten team had to reduce their scholarship numbers. That is why there was no NCAA sanctions. Was not an Iowa or a Gable thing! You might want to double check what you cut and paste....then decide if its the complete set of facts.
you might want to check the facts. Not all BIG teams got in trouble and Iowa was sanctioned.
 
Follow up on last post:

Wrestlers in the past have moved here and taken under 12 credits, so they're a part time student and thus don't start their eligability clock. Some call this a greyshirt, its how Cornell gets around Ivy league no RS rules. You can do this while still working out at HWC or other RTC's, while establishing in state residency. You do have to have good credentials to be able to participate in RTC practices, which are set by USA wrestling.

I am actually surprised we don't see this more. Over four or five years, the difference in in-state vs out-of-state tuition ends up being a ton of money.
There have been very few wrestlers who have taken a reduced load for a year at the U of I. A couple who have enrolled for one semester. As far as credentials set forth by USA wrestling; why are they inolved at all in providing rules and regs for the NCAA?
 
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