So if I understand correctly, Iowa could give full-ride scholarships to Nelson Brands and Joe Kelly & these would NOT count against Iowa's 9.9 scholarships because their fathers are employees of the University?
RECRUITING
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So if I understand correctly, Iowa could give full-ride scholarships to Nelson Brands and Joe Kelly & these would NOT count against Iowa's 9.9 scholarships because their fathers are employees of the University?
Every team that went by the determination set forth by the Big Ten Offfice received the same reduction of scholarships. Those that had the same costs for in state and out of state tuition of course had no problems. Bottom line it was not something that Iowa did on its own that caused the poblem, which is which was why it was a loss of scholarships only. I have no idea which schools lost scholarships or how many but do know it was not determined to have been an infraction participated by the Iowa wrstling program. So I DO have my FACTS straight.
Nick Lee will be getting in state tuition after establishing residency this year and Manville will have his tuition paid by the government and it won't count towards the 9.9.
9.9 scholarships every year, however, it's also the same total of 9.9 for the entire team in any given year, not each year. Just so everyone is not thinking more over a 4-5 year period of time.
Some of this is redundant because it has been mentioned throughout the thread: But I will try to consolidate: Each school or state (if a state school) has their own rules or policies in place for tuition reduction for the offspring of faculty members or coaches/employees), as well as different residency requirements for in state tuition. The constant is the NCAA allows 9.9 scholarships. Some schools use the full 9.9 and others do not. Sometimes it is a Title IX thing, or a school policy on how much tuition reduction to provide to athletes. I do not know for sure, but someone mentioned ISU does not use all the 9.9 scholarships the NCAA allows, with Title IX being mentioned as a reason. If true, for ISU to use all 9.9 scholarships, they would have to add athletic scholarships to their female teams, or increase the number of NCAA female sports they provide.
There were no limits on coaching staff (e.g. assistant coaches, grad assistants), and HWC members could practice with the NCAA team. Those were definitely advantageous to a strong program like Iowa. I'm not familiar with recruiting loopholes, per se, but I'd be interested in hearing what they were. I do recall OSU getting into trouble over multiple violations, some involving recruiting; but those weren't exploited loopholes, they were violations.
I respect sharing of info on potential upcoming action by NCAA but hope his sources are not the same he used for statement that both OSU and tOSU provide full tuition support for dependents of employees. Which has been shown to not be correct.
So the Board of Regents need a few thousand angry phone calls?
Can someone issue a 90 day travel ban from BWI just so we can get a handle on things? It is clear the BWI population here has not been properly vetted.
And they're dangerous. If anything bad happens......blame the Judge. Guess that'd be Gobblin........Right?
This is off-base. Virtually every other male sport besides football and basketball, recruiting can be based on instate or out-of-state costs. It varies from program to program and state to state. Even as a fully funded program - one of a minority in NCAA D1 wrestling - this is relevant to the recruit (not the institution) at Iowa AND PSU. In fact, PSU is at a disadvantage in comparison to Iowa in this regards, being one of the most expensive public institutions in the country. But the same song is being sung in most sports on every campus.
No. I do not believe U of I offers a tuition benefit for dependents of employees. I think Minnesota, Michigan and Wisconsin do not either. I don't think there is any B1G institution that currently offers 100% tuition benefit for dependents. Most that do now are at 50%.
If it is true that OSU offers a 50% benefit (to any employee), then JoJo Smith would receive a 50% tuition reduction that would not count against the 9.9. Anything else (besides aid that is available to any students of the university) would count.
For those that have gone through the process. It is not uncommon for athletes to get more academic money than athletic. If a student is given 50% to start off then it would be easy to believe that student wouldn't need any athletic scholarship funds.
My experience comes from a baseball scholarship my son was fortunate enough to receive. As an average to above average student with a solid act score the athletic portion was significantly less than the academic portion.
My experience comes from a baseball scholarship my son was fortunate enough to receive. As an average to above average student with a solid act score the athletic portion was significantly less than the academic portion.
They aren't.
They set the guidelines for Regional training centers, like the Hawkeye Wrestling Club. This is separate from the University of Iowa wrestling team.
Up until teams can start official practice (Usually like October 10th?) practices are all HWC practices. Mostly the same for after the season. Thats part of why having an RTC at your school is so important.
If it's a loophole and legal, why be so vague? Just tell us. No reason not to. If this loophole has been in place and being used, then it's really dumb for us not to have used it. If other schools offer out of state recruits in-state tuition, it's dumb of us not to do it.
I guarantee Penn State does not bill out of state students in-state tuition
The reason he is vague is because he is speaking out his rear and that is exhaled smoke you see.
I never said Wright was a trouble maker. I meant that he wrestled with a different attitude. That was in reference to Gilman and Clark being treated different by Brands. Cael treated Wright different than he did Matt Brown or David Taylor is what I said, both of whom are about as squeaky clean as you can get as far as sportsmanship on the mat. Wright carried himself different than those two. Just as Gilman carries himself different than Clark. I did not mean for that to even remotely come off as an insult.
As for the Slush Fund stuff, this is not a secret at all. It also is not a violation. Organizations are allowed to offer some financial support to support the sport. Some people think that PSU is abusing that. The NCAA has already said that they are going to change the wording of some bylaws to directly address similar situations and make the rules clear to everybody.
As for any other university policy on tuition assistance it is pretty clear as long as the same benefit is available to all students who meet the criteria it is completely allowed. That can mean out of State kids getting in State tuition, employee discounts/free. I don't believe any of the premier programs in college wrestling are doing anything against the rules at all, Not Iowa, Not Ohio State, Not Oklahoma State, Not Penn State.
I don't know Iowa's policy. However, one quick phone call to Human Resources would answer that question in about 5 minutes.
Ya, and Jim H. never pushes the limits. He is an angle....Must be related to Belicheck. (sp)
Ohio State does have employee tuition/fees benefits. Or at least they used to. I do not know exactly how it works, but without actually digging into it, an employee earns time based/years of service/classes taught credits, which add up like someone who earns a paid vacation day for every 100 hours worked or whatever. Those credits can than be used by the employee to take classes or can be used by qualified dependents. Ohio State also at one point had a flat across the board 50% discount for certain union employees, which was a negotiated part of their contracts. I do not believe any coaches at the school were ever a part of any union though, so that would have never applied to Tom Ryan.
I was also told that Oklahoma University and Oklahoma State both also offer tuition/fees benefits for qualified dependents. Exactly how all three of the respected universities handle their tuition for employees, I can not tell you. However, I can tell you that the information about tuition assistance for employees is not a secret and can be readily had if anyone wants to contact the school's human resource department.
I used too strong of language when simply saying that those head coach's kids had "full rides." I understand that using the term "full ride" implies that they have basically the same financial assistance scholarship as a star football recruit, which is not the case. I apologize for that as it clearly caused confusion.
I was really just trying to point out that so long as Ryan's son, Smith's son, and Roselli's son receive the same tuition/fees assistance as other similar employees, than it is not a violation at all and some Universities absolutely do offer their employees and qualified dependents free tuition.
I was also told that Oklahoma University and Oklahoma State both also offer tuition/fees benefits for qualified dependents. Exactly how all three of the respected universities handle their tuition for employees, I can not tell you. However, I can tell you that the information about tuition assistance for employees is not a secret and can be readily had if anyone wants to contact the school's human resource department.
I used too strong of language when simply saying that those head coach's kids had "full rides." I understand that using the term "full ride" implies that they have basically the same financial assistance scholarship as a star football recruit, which is not the case. I apologize for that as it clearly caused confusion.
I was really just trying to point out that so long as Ryan's son, Smith's son, and Roselli's son receive the same tuition/fees assistance as other similar employees, than it is not a violation at all and some Universities absolutely do offer their employees and qualified dependents free tuition.
With all the "Open Book laws" I can't believe college programs don't have to open their books on scholarships and how their are paid out. Just open to the NCAA doesn't seem likely..??
Wow, I must have missed in the NCAA bylaws where it read:
"All wrestling programs including Iowa, Oklahoma State & Ohio State have to comply with these strict rules, but Cael Sanderson & Penn State can use this special loophole."
You guys have the chapter & verse where it says that ?
Thanks ahead of time.
"All wrestling programs including Iowa, Oklahoma State & Ohio State have to comply with these strict rules, but Cael Sanderson & Penn State can use this special loophole."
You guys have the chapter & verse where it says that ?
Thanks ahead of time.
There is no need to call anyone. Iowa doesn't have it. This was discussed at length with the Ferentz boys and now the McCaffery boys and numerous other similar situations.
Penn state charges employee offspring 25% tuition.
Justwrestle133 backpedaled so hard with that post he should most definetly be penalized for stalling. As far as any openly secret slush funds that only Penn State has access to but is within the rules - is this something that is sport specific. In wrestling only Penn State has access to this exception, in football only Alabama, women's basketball only UCONN.
Smoke expelled through anal orifice.
Justwrestle133 backpedaled so hard with that post he should most definetly be penalized for stalling. As far as any openly secret slush funds that only Penn State has access to but is within the rules - is this something that is sport specific. In wrestling only Penn State has access to this exception, in football only Alabama, women's basketball only UCONN.
Smoke expelled through anal orifice.
JustWrestle, you may want to take your source a little bit lightly. I can state with 100% surety that OKSTATE does not currently offer tuition discounts for dependents. (YET-it is in discussion). OU does offer a 50% discount (which is why OSU is considering it).
My 17 year old son, living in Stillwater, OK, could attend Iowa for less actual cost than he can go to OSU. Of course, OSU won't calculate academic scholarships until the student is a senior in HS, so that will change.
I am glad he is being recruited due to academics instead of wrestling-a lot less rules involved!
I am sorry if this has been discussed before but can someone tell me how the psu "slush fund" works? I have heard it mentioned throughout this forum but don't know what it actually is. Is it a way to pay kids schooling durning redshirt years that don't count towards the 9.9?
What are these actual loopholes people are talking about? Is there really a slush fund?
What are these actual loopholes people are talking about? Is there really a slush fund?
Lets just use Nevils for an example. I don't know his families financial situation but lets just say that they are lower middle class and need scholarship money and student loans for it to all work out. Cael offers him a 25% scholarship and informs him that a wealthy billionaire that is a Penn State booster is willing to pay off his student loans, after he graduates, and is no longer a student. That should be a violation but because of said loophole it isn't. It's really no different than paying a kid or his family up front. #slushfund
That's how I understood it as well.
I bet there's a lot more wealthy donors near happy valley than there are in Iowa city.
This way of abusing the rules will be difficult to abolish. Once they write in the rules to stop it, the PSU alum (or any other school's alums that wish to abuse the system) will just hire the wrestlers to work for them for $250k/yr for something that they pay others $50k/yr. After one year, the wrestler quits and moves on with their lives. This could probably even be as a consultant while they wrestle in the PSU wrestling club - and this is only one possible way. It will be extremely difficult to write into the rules all the ways to exclude funnelling money to these guys after they graduate.
This is definitely an NCAA violation.
BTW, Nevills is on a 60% ride. He has stated that publicly in an interview.
This thread has many posts with assertions that could be "fact" checked with a few simple google searches. But such is the internet...
Did you read this on the internet, or did some guy tell you?
I'm going to assume you know that everything you read on the internet is not true, and that some guy told you this, because I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt.
So, can you please tell everyone how many degrees of separation there are between someone close enough to the Penn State program to know this information and your disgruntled, drunk buddy at an Iowa City bar on Saturday night?
"So if I understand correctly, Iowa could give full-ride scholarships to Nelson Brands and Joe Kelly & these would NOT count against Iowa's 9.9 scholarships because their fathers are employees of the University?"
Incorrect-- If Nelson Brands or any other University employee kid is offered a scholly-- it counts toward the 9.9 at the University of Iowa.
Incorrect-- If Nelson Brands or any other University employee kid is offered a scholly-- it counts toward the 9.9 at the University of Iowa.
